Of Kings and Commoners - Kingmaker AP

Game Master RPGGGM

I took a look at the first iteration and decided it wasn't for me.

It had some nice ideas I might borrow.

First version was awful, worse than 4th edition, far too much pigeonholing of classes.

Also awful to read and understand, rules were just ridiculous to try and figure out.

First version was awful, worse than 4th edition, far too much pigeonholing of classes.

Also awful to read and understand, rules were just ridiculous to try and figure out.

Well we have been playing the 3.x version of the World's Greatest Role-playing Game for nearly 20 years now and while some of that may be just "old man gamer syndrome" (although I remember back then saying "'Attack of Opportunity' what the hell is that?") I think you might be right.

I was suspicious the moment they added hero points as a core rule. The original idea was to make the game simpler. It is hard to make things simpler by addition--especially with the addition of a rule that just stands there on its own.

I actually got the Playtest books and maps when they came out, and have gone through them (mostly) once and while I like the simplification of round actions, I really (REALLY!) hate character creation (it might be old gamer syndrome again but it just drains the joy out of making an interesting character every time I try--and I really like making characters), and the critical fail mechanic, and possibly resonance (which I haven't read thoroughly yet--but have seen a lot of meh about).

Archetypes for everyone is kinda cool.

What do you mean 'pigeonholing'--I thought it was almost the opposite (i.e. the difference in fighting skill between a barbarian and a fighter-orientated wizard isn't that great)?

I sort of ask because I've been looking at old BECMI (the Basic, Expert, Companion, Master and Immortal 80's box sets) clones like Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG, Dark (and Darker) Dungeons, and Swords & Wizardry, as well as the 3.5 SRD and the PSRD, NOT because I was thinking about changing the rule system for our game but because I was thinking about the idea of a simpler version of Pathfinder combining some of the simplicity of old-skool-style systems and the best bits of Pathfinder.

Oh, and I want to make Fighters and Rogues relevant again... and not just because they get to make attacks of opportunity (like P2.0 fighters can).

Hm, didn't get to check out the playtest. Meant to, wanted to, but didn't find the time.

Interesting that you point our character creation as a bad point - I THOUGHT I had read something about that before the playtest that made me hopeful for it.

As in, a distinction between actual racial traits and socially aquired ones that would ultimately give better variety and more options without stock variant racials or specific background traits.

But then, as said, had no chance to check it for myself. But if something I was hopeful about based on early information turns out to be a mess that you point out as awful, then I don't have high hopes for everything else...

@Posh: Sure, if you survive and retrieve it, you get first dibs on what I'm crafting starting level 5 :)
Thats what you meant with 'reward', right?

@Posh: Sure, if you survive and retrieve it, you get first dibs on what I'm crafting starting level 5 :)

Thats what you meant with 'reward', right?

You know what Posh is dreaming about having you build right now--a weapon chord.

Hm, didn't get to check out the playtest. Meant to, wanted to, but didn't find the time.

Interesting that you point our character creation as a bad point - I THOUGHT I had read something about that before the playtest that made me hopeful for it.

As in, a distinction between actual racial traits and socially aquired ones that would ultimately give better variety and more options without stock variant racials or specific background traits.

But then, as said, had no chance to check it for myself. But if something I was hopeful about based on early information turns out to be a mess that you point out as awful, then I don't have high hopes for everything else...

Those Ancestry Feats exist (many exist now, but we call them 'racial traits'). Each race has about 10 of them and they get one at first level and one every 4 levels thereafter. Some of them are level dependent. Elves for instance can get stuff like Ageless Patience (+2 to what amounts to your Day Job), Keen Hearing (+2 to hearing), Nimble (+5' move speed) or Weapon Familiarity (familiarity with bow and swords is a feat now). You keep your starting languages (and bonus languages) and low-light vision.

Backgrounds are well kinda dumb.... The whole how you do stats is sort of dumb really. Everyone starts at 10 in everything. Humans get to stick 2 +2s somewhere, everyone else has 2 +2s where you think and one -2, but then they get a bonus +2 to put where they like (except where ever those other racial +2s are). There's a rule about going over 18. Then you get a +2 based on your class that goes in the prime ability score, and two +2s (supposedly) based on your background. Like being a Nomad means you get to "Choose two ability boosts. One must be to Constitution or Wisdom, and one is a free ability boost." They say you can intentionally hobble yourself with a low score, but don't get anything for it. Oh, but don't hobble yourself too much because the other players won't appreciated having to carry your ass though the dungeon, you jerk.... Did I mention the half-page that proceeds this section that tells you how you absolutely must be inclusive? No wheelchair ramps for you buddy!

And then every 4 levels you get 4 +2s to distribute, so you don't need a belt to keep you pants and Strength and Constitution scores up.

There aren't a lot of fun sounding feats. There's one that allows you to mitigate critical failures on a particular check by turning them into mere failures. That's partially what the Hero Points are for.

There are a lot of status effects, not really that different from the current playbill of sickened, panicked, confused, dying and so on. They have numbers attached to them that indicate how bad off you are. Many times it indicates the specific penalty you are at. So you can be Cheesed 4 for instance (I'm guessing now) it is probably one of the worst levels of cheese... I guess. There's one now--the name escapes me but it reduces your speed by the number's worth of feet so it sounds horrible. I think its 'hampered' and you can be Hampered 20 and such.

Again, it has some things I do like like simplified actions, but that was stuff that they first rolled out in Pathfinder Unchained as an optional rule. You get three actions and a reaction to do stuff like: move, attack, cast spells (one action for the verbal action, one action for the somatic action), retrieve things, or raise you shield (for the shield bonus to AC, it's a Star Trek reference). You can take a triple move if you like. You also get 1 reaction, something you can do as a reaction to events like hard parrying stuff with your raised shield, or take an attack of opportunity (which fighters can start with as a sort of class feat/ability) and other people can pick up later as a feat. I think it shows up earlier for other martial classes as class feats pegged to a level but fighters get it first.

I'm having a lot of fun in the 2.0 playtest. I can finally have a divine character with skill points, or I can punch things without wondering where my damage went. My only complaints are RESONANCE and that the updates are coming way too soon for PbP (we're at 1.6 now?)

Hell, I love the way skills are handled in 2e. In here if you don't max your skills you may as well not bother, the DCs will go way out of control (I usually add 3 ranks every 4 levels, but you get my point.) Why give all of that control? Just pick the number of skills I'm going to max, thanks. Like Pathfinder Unchained you can pick to upgrade the skill rank. So there's stuff you can't do until you are an Expert.

3 actions per round. Great. I don't have to think about Swift, Immediate, Full, Move, Standard, Attack, or Free Actions. Well, I do still have to think about Free Actions, but that's the easiest one to remember. I also don't have to unlock a second attack per round anymore- just take a -5 penalty. You can take a -10 penalty for the third attack, but there is usually something better to do.

I'm really liking 2e so far, and Paizo is clearly listening to feedback (unlike, say 4th ed)

I've also thought about doing a BECMI/3.X hybrid. Numalar's Lost City game has a bit of that. It's B/X with feats, more or less - a short and cultivated list, but feats nonetheless.

I've had a lot of fun with fighters and rogues in PF1 and found them to be relevant. I have a Drill Sergeant fighter in a Teamwork Experiment PbP table; a Tactician fighter in an all-fighter Ironfang Invasion game; a Seeker cavalier (okay, not quite a fighter, but a non-magic martial); and a couple of multiclassed. Haven't even gotten to use the AWT or AAT options yet. But I am having a great time with my fighters.

I have a Core rogue who has done Bonekeep 1-3 and more than pulled his weight. It certainly required more of an old-school mindset of stacking the deck in his favor and not charging in and counting on a power build to win the day. He's almost level 12, hoping to do Eyes of the Ten with him.

So by and large I have found fighters and rogues to be relevant and fun. The current Seeker arc I am in is an exception in that it seems heavily skewed to favor casters (but the prior Seeker arc was not).

I do like some of the fighter options in PF2. And I like the emphasis of MAD over SAD. I like that you don't get any benefit for dumping stats. I like the changes to allowable alignments for certain deities' clerics (kind of sad about CG Gorumites, though, as I liked Kord).

The presentation of the information in the original Playtest seemed like it was written by a programmer, that the rules were code, and that the GM was to be a compiler. Keywords and icons. I don't think this is a good direction for the hobby. I think more emphasis on plain English (or Gygaxian English) and GM judgment calls and reasoning are better. This is an area where I think 4E really screwed up and 5E fixed it a bit.

I'm having a lot of fun in the 2.0 playtest. I can finally have a divine character with skill points....

They did have to make a template specifically to explain Cardinal Richelieu. My Calistrian took two levels of bard just to tag her Diplomacy and Sense Motive scores to her ability to pillow talk. I love having skill points.

I've also thought about doing a BECMI/3.X hybrid. Numalar's Lost City game has a bit of that. It's B/X with feats, more or less - a short and cultivated list, but feats nonetheless.

I've had a lot of fun with fighters and rogues in PF1 and found them to be relevant. I have a Drill Sergeant fighter in a Teamwork Experiment PbP table; a Tactician fighter in an all-fighter Ironfang Invasion game; a Seeker cavalier (okay, not quite a fighter, but a non-magic martial); and a couple of multiclassed. Haven't even gotten to use the AWT or AAT options yet. But I am having a great time with my fighters.

I have a Core rogue who has done Bonekeep 1-3 and more than pulled his weight. It certainly required more of an old-school mindset of stacking the deck in his favor and not charging in and counting on a power build to win the day. He's almost level 12, hoping to do Eyes of the Ten with him.

I have a lot of fun with mine too, but my games rarely get into the stratosphere of mid- to late teen levels. One of the things they wanted to fix (or help fix) with P2 was the apparent difference in power levels between wizards and the more martial classes.

I do like some of the fighter options in PF2. And I like the emphasis of MAD over SAD. I like that you don't get any benefit for dumping stats....

I'm not really. I like the fact that you should have more going for you than just your key stat (unless I guess you are a Sorcerer, since resonance is tagged to personality) but you really wouldn't get characters like Raistlin for example, or James Jacobs' character Shensen, or Vague a dwarf fighter/barbarian in my home game from years back who was dumber than your average troll (we rolled for stats for that game, and he got an Int 5... still attacks every desk he comes across because of that one mimic. Sad really.) I kinda don't like that I don't have to make a trade off to make a competent greataxe-wielding front-line wizard anymore (and for the record I made him with a Charisma 7, to give him Str 16, Int 17, and descent physicals) and I do play him that way. I play my Wisdom 7 Paladin of Shelyn as impulsive, and my slightly dim cleric, and my way too boisterous bull-in-a-China-shop cleric the same in regards to Int and Dex respectively. I have a scrawny witch patterned on Disc World's Magrat Garlick, and of course my slightly creepy Igor, who nonetheless is very good at making friends, too. It just rubs me wrong to think that everybody came from Lake Wobegone and that I don't really have a choice in the matter except the designer saying "well you could, but don't get left behind." That just seems like poor design. For me there's not really much in the way of meaningful choice involved in the process. Throw down whatever, it will be "usable." Why not start with 12, 11, two 10s, 9 and an 8? Or four 10s, a 12 and an 8? It just seems blah.

... Keywords and icons. I don't think this is a good direction for the hobby. I think more emphasis on plain English (or Gygaxian English) and GM judgment calls and reasoning are better. This is an area where I think 4E really screwed up and 5E fixed it a bit.

Yeah this comes up all the time for me since 3.0--legalese. Okay he has Line of Effect, but not Line of Sight because he's blind right it doesn't really spell it out in Spell Targeting. Looks up Blind. Blind says everyone has concealment from the blind person. Looks up Concealment. Concealment has two entries Partial and Total. Read read read. Total Concealment blocks Line of Sight. I rest my case Your Honor!

The playtest book needs a complete reorganization. I had hoped they would organize the book and then actually make a good web version (Yes I like my dead tree version but I usually keep that home.)

Aye, from ancestry/background and all that you describe, it seemed promising, if done right.
As in, lot of different avenues and interesting synergies that could interact with each other in various ways to give characters a specific touch enabling different strategies in combination with different choices.

That is, at least, what I had hoped for.
But other things you tell crush that. Like, that that 4x +2 every 4 levels...seem stupid. That's not a choice. The worst MAD-chars can do with 4 Attributes unless you gimp yourself intentionally. And for SAD chars? Well, depending on the saves and HD ... CON, DEX, + (WIS or INT) all seem great options.
would have been more interesting to have options there.

Unchained Action Economy: Actually very much looking forward to a game hopefully starting around 20th December that is supposed to make use of it. I built a Fighter/Heritor Knight for it that will happily move up, Cornugon Smash(+Vital Strike) - Shatter Defenses - then Deadly Stroke(+Vital Strike).
But even without that kind of combo, it seems like a great system...except for the additional economy cost of swift actions. And the still prevalent problem of not being able to get more reactions AFAIK...

I am also in a couple games using the Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might. It's surprisingly fun using those, with a lot of interesting options(and of course some cheese, but really, no 3p needed for that).

Oh well, suits me just fine. Right now, I doubt I'd have the time to master a new system to a point I feel sufficiently happy playing at.

I'm not that keen on 2.0. I looked it over, but my groups have been completely uninterested in trying it, so we haven't done much with it, and I couldn't afford the tome so I'm using just the PDF.

Numalar, do you also go by the pseudonym Lost City DM by any chance?

I'm not that keen on 2.0. I looked it over, but my groups have been completely uninterested in trying it, so we haven't done much with it, and I couldn't afford the tome so I'm using just the PDF.

Numalar, do you also go by the pseudonym Lost City DM by any chance?

Yes he does. I suspect that holidays, work, coastal weather and lack of connectivity (followed by the inevitable "OMG! There are so many posts I will never catch up" despair have kept him away from the boards.

Small virtual world. I play Ana over on his game. Never made the connection. :)

Peet/Lost City DM/Numalar recommended you and Durgan as possible players for this game based on that Lost City game when our group's lunar oracle had to drop out for medical reasons.

Have I mentioned (this week) that I actually wrote something for the "Lost City" for Dungeon Magazine once. ;)

I do like some of the fighter options in PF2. And I like the emphasis of MAD over SAD. I like that you don't get any benefit for dumping stats.

WAIT. The guy with the AC 54 at 4th level doesn't like minmaxing! For the record my minmaxing rarely (if ever) leads to a character with a super high stat. Usually it is something I do to get characters that are MAD into the high teens (paladins and eldritch knights mainly--though I could have gotten away with a Wis 8-9 for Polly, but she's basically a cartoon character).

I like the changes to allowable alignments for certain deities' clerics (kind of sad about CG Gorumites, though, as I liked Kord).

Yeah, I always thought that the 'same alignment or one removed' was an okay shorthand but didn't really have the nuance, though it never really came up in any game I was personally involved in. That didn't bother me as much as clerics of good war deities not being able to channel harm to damage enemies. Personally I would just get rid of alignment or strip it down to Elric distinctions of Chaos, Neutrality and Law. I think my favorite "alignment" system came from the World of Darkness where everyone had Jungian personality archetypes one was their actual nature, and one was the image they projected their demeanor so you might be a Director/Rebel someone who likes to organize people and things but projects the image of a rebel or you could be the reverse a Rebel/Director someone who pretends to be a good organizer but really wants to tear down the system and be free. Most of the White Wolf games had about 20 of these that you could mix and match (Architect, Bon Vivant, Caregiver, Loner, Martyr, Monster, Survivor, etc...). It was a pretty elegant system for keeping motivations straight.

The nature/demeanor is a well-done element...but as usual with storyteller games, it's up to the GM and players to give it influence in play or determine if the concept is correctly choosen.
On the boards, I got a (Nature: Gallant/Demeanor: Celebrant) Daughter of Cacophony and a (Nature: Autocrat/Demeanor: Judge) Ventrue...been a while since I had a chance at a live game.

Anyway, I liked having those 'motivations' and elements on a character, so on all new chars I make/submissions, I usually have a block based on this

Gives a nice little block like

@Serena - I'm Brathas in that game.

@GM - Okay, fair, I do have a good enough understanding of the moving parts to usually accomplish what I want to accomplish in a game without dumping stats. When I've played SAD classes I've put points into non-essential scores; wizards are so powerful you don't need to optimize them to the hilt.

I don't think I am at the point of over-optimization with Durgan. In this fight he sat around waiting to see if we were going to actually come to blows, so he had a lot of buffing time. His walking-around AC of 21 really isn't that good for Level 4.

I was mostly kidding about the AC. I have a little wolf-riding cavalier who's AC is very important to her too. I don't like to over optimize but being good at one or two things is certainly fun.

And wizards do get pretty tough starting in the mid-levels when they get things like fireball and invisibility and enough spells to memorize both a couple of times.

I was sort of thinking about using a variant of the Rules Cyclopedia/Dark (and Darker) Dungeons' Weapon Mastery/Feats to differentiate fighters the way that Domains and Schools differentiate clerics and wizards respectively. Basically building in feats like trip into the weapons as you train with them.

For those that don't know Weapon Mastery was a system of Weapon Proficiency introduced in the D&D Rule Cyclopedia that offered several levels of proficiency (Non-proficient, basic, skilled, expert, master, grand master ) with each weapon in the game. At every increasing level character got to throw more damage dice, got special attacks like being able to delay, trip, or disarm an opponent, or even increase their AC against increasing numbers of opponents while wielding the weapon. Basically they got combat feats for free-ish. Fighters of course got the best weapon mastery progression, but even high level wizards could be good enough with a staff to block and incoming an attack or two, or use their dagger to good effect.

Serena Mistcastle wrote:

I'm not that keen on 2.0. I looked it over, but my groups have been completely uninterested in trying it, so we haven't done much with it, and I couldn't afford the tome so I'm using just the PDF.

Numalar, do you also go by the pseudonym Lost City DM by any chance?

Yes he does. I suspect that holidays, work, coastal weather and lack of connectivity (followed by the inevitable "OMG! There are so many posts I will never catch up" despair have kept him away from the boards.

Quite a few times I had that despair actually, but with my anxiety I didn't want to sound like a idiot "Oh gasp! People have posted a lot!" was the kind of sarcasm I imagined people would say, but now I'm much better and on meds too so everything is much better on my side now. Was in a bad situation, but things are much better on my end.

Quite a few times I had that despair actually, but with my anxiety I didn't want to sound like a idiot "Oh gasp! People have posted a lot!" was the kind of sarcasm I imagined people would say, but now I'm much better and on meds too so everything is much better on my side now. Was in a bad situation, but things are much better on my end.

Good to hear, Posh. My meds keep me out of the dark places, mostly. On occasion, they fail me, but they help tremendously.

Oh me oh my. That will be interesting.
Aside from the whole highly magical 'intelligent weapon' thing, there's part of my soul invested in it.
Lets hope he takes the Beetleblade as equal and doesn't demand the Master Ring, the one to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them...
That said, naturally Alia will see the debt as hers, not Poshs, to pay back. So even if he made the agreement and argues differently, she's involved there.
If the Dark God and his are worthy anglers(and I kind of don't doubt that...)

Oh me oh my. That will be interesting.

Aside from the whole highly magical 'intelligent weapon' thing, there's part of my soul invested in it.
Lets hope he takes the Beetleblade as equal and doesn't demand the Master Ring, the one to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them...
That said, naturally Alia will see the debt as hers, not Poshs, to pay back. So even if he made the agreement and argues differently, she's involved there.
If the Dark God and his are worthy anglers(and I kind of don't doubt that...)

Now I'm looking forward to that. It'll be a very interesting roleplaying opportunity as the two will argue this and that in regards to who the debt belongs to and how to see it.

I'd like to see how Scarlet would react to this as well.

You and your dedicated precious swords... now look what trouble you got into!

If the Dark One comes to Durgan for help enforcing a freely-agreed upon contract, Durgan will have to help him. Priest of Abadar, you see. He'll have to do his best Appraise to evaluate what is in fact 'equal value' to Alia's sword. Is Posh's soul of equal value? Or just his color?

Durgan would likely judge that Alia couldn't stand in for Posh without the Dark One agreeing to it. The Dark One wanted Posh's help in retrieving an item, and Posh has different skills than Alia. Alia's skills might not be equally valuable to the Dark One. You can't change the price of payment after the deal is struck.

But that the agreement didn't stipulate that Zcerneboch would determine what is retrieved, merely that Posh would help retrieve something of equal value. Perhaps Posh could decide (as Alia suggested) to get the Beetleblade. There's Abadaran 'standard' legalese and there's Asmodean 'you have got to be kidding me' hair-splitting. Not sure where the line is...

Aye Durgan. But what I said is that she would see it as her debt. And everything that results from it as her responsibility. Not that she would demand to be the one allowed to pay the debt. But if Posh has to murder a dozen younglings to retrieve the object demanded, their blood is on her hands as much as on his.
Chaotic, you see? :)

Also, on that same basis, you could not 'appraise' equal value without knowing that constitutes value to the Dark God. Much similar to the Posh skills/Alia skills conundrum, Durgen or Abadar may have different ideas about what exactly IS valuable, and how much so in comparison to something else...the relative prize of souls in the different planes of the multiverse says a lot about that...

@Scarlet: I think your brothers sword made him do it. I suppose it's telling him lies, corrupting him and gaining control over him, eroding his ego for it's own, nefarious purposes. It would be in our best interest to free him from that sword and throw it down that well.---

Aye Durgan. But what I said is that she would see it as her debt. And everything that results from it as her responsibility. Not that she would demand to be the one allowed to pay the debt. But if Posh has to murder a dozen younglings to retrieve the object demanded, their blood is on her hands as much as on his.

Chaotic, you see? :)

Also, on that same basis, you could not 'appraise' equal value without knowing that constitutes value to the Dark God. Much similar to the Posh skills/Alia skills conundrum, Durgen or Abadar may have different ideas about what exactly IS valuable, and how much so in comparison to something else...the relative prize of souls in the different planes of the multiverse says a lot about that...

@Scarlet: I think your brothers sword made him do it. I suppose it's telling him lies, corrupting him and gaining control over him, eroding his ego for it's own, nefarious purposes. It would be in our best interest to free him from that sword and throw it down that well.---

That's somewhat what I was thinking. Maybe a miscommunication down the line.

Also, on that same basis, you could not 'appraise' equal value without knowing that constitutes value to the Dark God. Much similar to the Posh skills/Alia skills conundrum, Durgen or Abadar may have different ideas about what exactly IS valuable, and how much so in comparison to something else...the relative prize of souls in the different planes of the multiverse says a lot about that...

Good point. "You will help me retrieve an item" is pretty clear. The "of equal value" part is subjective, as you note.

You can of course discuss things among yourselves here or in-character. Often times comparing notes can be a good thing. But for those of you who lack patience and wanna read the second to last page of the mystery novel, here you go....

Durgan, I'm totally down for going shopping at the Witchmarket... :)

My Internet is spotty at the moment. New wifi modem arrived and my PS3,Tablet and Kindle work fine, however my PC's wireless adapter can't connect. I think it's because it's very old and can't fully connect to a more advanced modem.

Getting a new one with 3g and 4g,but it doesn't arrive until Monday and have to go pick it up at the shop.

Got to admit it was gut wrenching reading about his death due to the many times I've played the first part and GMed it that it was always a safe haven.

Was so damn shocking, but also loved how only this GM would have the balls to do it. Can't wait to see what other surprises might happen.

Just out of curiosity, no relation really, but does anybody have a scroll or means of feather fall that Alia might know about?

Just out of curiosity, no relation really, but does anybody have a scroll or means of feather fall that Alia might know about?

Funny you should ask, I was just about to sit down and figure out the bank for this part of the adventure. Lady Luljeta wants to thank everybody for saving the castle, and well, not telling her dad about the wild party she threw while he was away. There should be enough there for a scroll or three.

Anytime now...

Anytime....

A-yep....

Just got to get out of this comfy chair...

It's really comfy....

I'll get it tabulated and up with more gameplay posts this evening.

Hm, while you are busy tabulating, how much would a Everburning Torch with a higher-level Continual Flame spell cost?
It seems to be 50(material cost) + Level(2)*CL(3)*10 = 110 GP.
So a heightened(to level 5) one would be 50(material) + Level(5)*CL(9)*10 = 500 GP?
Also, the target is object touched...so could that object be a Jewel that I'll implement in my armor with a flap to cover/uncover it(so there's no need to carry around pesky torches...if I place it Tele-Tubby-Style, we evade the facing-question and can assume all-around illumination...) - ideally as part of a move action(much like drawing a weapon - one hand for the weapon, the other hand reveals the light).
(Jewel is optional...for minimal sunderability and long-term usage, probably a polished shard of some high-hardness material would be preferable.)

Hm, while you are busy tabulating, how much would a Everburning Torch with a higher-level Continual Flame spell cost?

It seems to be 50(material cost) + Level(2)*CL(3)*10 = 110 GP.
So a heightened(to level 5) one would be 50(material) + Level(5)*CL(9)*10 = 500 GP?
Also, the target is object touched...so could that object be a Jewel that I'll implement in my armor with a flap to cover/uncover it(so there's no need to carry around pesky torches...if I place it Tele-Tubby-Style, we evade the facing-question and can assume all-around illumination...) - ideally as part of a move action(much like drawing a weapon - one hand for the weapon, the other hand reveals the light).
(Jewel is optional...for minimal sunderability and long-term usage, probably a polished shard of some high-hardness material would be preferable.)

Alia, the carebear of the blade.

What happened to the Star Wars that I used to know.

Hm, while you are busy tabulating, how much would a Everburning Torch with a higher-level Continual Flame spell cost?

It seems to be 50(material cost) + Level(2)*CL(3)*10 = 110 GP.
So a heightened(to level 5) one would be 50(material) + Level(5)*CL(9)*10 = 500 GP?
Also, the target is object touched...so could that object be a Jewel that I'll implement in my armor with a flap to cover/uncover it(so there's no need to carry around pesky torches...if I place it Tele-Tubby-Style, we evade the facing-question and can assume all-around illumination...) - ideally as part of a move action(much like drawing a weapon - one hand for the weapon, the other hand reveals the light).
(Jewel is optional...for minimal sunderability and long-term usage, probably a polished shard of some high-hardness material would be preferable.)

Um, again?

Generally speaking if such a jewel (or two for an effect like headlights!) where incorporated into armor it would have whatever sunderability that the armor has. Anything that destroys the armor would ruin the light effect until it was repaired. Otherwise it could be worn in a magic item slot (or incorporated into such an item like certain Pathfinder wayfinders that have multiple spell-like effects beyond the typical light spell), or it could be made slotless. Retrieving such an item from practically anywhere on a person is ordinarily a move action that provokes an AoOs.

This can be gotten around by having it readily available like as part of a broach, or on a bandolier (adventurer's sash), or in the amulet slot (either as that slot or as an unslotted item on a necklace--like a cleric's holy symbol, which while most-often not magical, is often hung from a necklace for ease of use when channeling or when used as a divine focus).

Hm. so, unslotted then. I figured something like a miners headlamp. Or even the way a illuminating shield boss works. Only of course I have no shield, and hoped it could be covered by not taking a separate action.

How about having the Fragment be a part of a weapons Handguard, hidden as long as the Weapon is sheated?

We seem to run into darkness with some regularity. There's also unresolved matters with a company of insane dwarfs who love darkness, and beyond them, there's Drow waiting. And gods know how many other sub-terraineously-dwelling sun-hating beasts are still waiting for us.
A light that overrides the common darkness-inducing effects would be handy. Heck, screw the headlights, I'll get Numalar a page of Spell Knowledge, being a Razmiran, he can even use his false Focus to substitute for the material component, so he'll be able to turn all his unused spell slots into torchy-glowing pebbles. Heck, I'll ask him to cast it on a sack full of rivets and walk into the next underground murder hole looking like Elvis.(if we find a way he can heigthen the spell).

How about having the Fragment be a part of a weapons Handguard, hidden as long as the Weapon is sheated?

That's generally how magical glowing blades with the light spell work.

Darkness is pretty common in medieval fantasy games. It would be even more common if you decide to explore the places beneath the Stolen Land, but that is the fun of a sandbox you get a bit more choice.

Aye, I'm all good with that :) One tiny torch light will not change darkness, but I simply experienced first-hand with the dwarfs how utterly dangerous it can be to be shut down by something so simple, so I have in-character reason to seek countermeasures.
The hated drow also love using Darkness, and they are not as mercyful - so, to be specific, it's less that darkness I am worried about, it's the magical darkness :) That is STILL common in medieval fantasy, but Daylight is Spell Level 3 for Magus and that does not seem like a terribly good deal so I'd prefer outsourcing that worry.

Durgan will get Daylight sooner than Alia will (next level). And Continual Flame for that matter - since it counts as a 3rd-level spell for him, it can counter Deeper Darkness.

Could take Heighten Spell down the road if we are running into Heightened Deeper Darkness.

TREASURE! LOOT! WOOT!

So because 1,933.33 is a weird number and you guys are closing in on 5th level I'm just going to round up to 2,000 gp each okay? That makes the total trove worth 16,000 gp. Now you can hoard this wealth/good karma in your own other-dimensional pocket economy to use on your vorpral hammer later on or use some or all of it now to receive any gift that could be given by someone like say Strahd von Zarovish or Count Dracula adding in whatever else you might have personally saved up to make for an even grander gift (or bunches of stuff it doesn't have to be just one thing after all).

You can also indulge in a night's restful sleep, regaining some hp, and spells and daily-use abilities in the morning.

TREASURE! LOOT! WOOT!

So because 1,933.33 is a weird number and you guys are closing in on 5th level I'm just going to round up to 2,000 gp each okay? That makes the total trove worth 16,000 gp. Now you can hoard this wealth/good karma in your own other-dimensional pocket economy to use on your vorpral hammer later on or use some or all of it now to receive any gift that could be given by someone like say Strahd von Zarovish or Count Dracula adding in whatever else you might have personally saved up to make for an even grander gift (or bunches of stuff it doesn't have to be just one thing after all).

You can also indulge in a night's restful sleep, regaining some hp, and spells and daily-use abilities in the morning.

Yay! Now I won't be suffering from the effects of hedonism...at least this night.

Sorry guys been a bit under the weather lately and whenever I looked at the glorious new post-count of this game I got a bit of that syndrome you discussed earlier :P

Now! Some random points that have been brought up in the discussion!

1) Hi Posh!

Nice to meet you : )

2) 2nd ed playtest!

I like the dumb bits in pf1. The ones where I can throw tons of bits into a mixer and get something at the other end. Sure it's usually broken in some way. But that I can just do that is what makes 3.x/pathfinder so nice to play around with.

Seeing as 2nd ed doesn't seem to have that feature I'm not sure how it's supposed to replace 1st ed. Now I've played plenty of other rpgs too so I'm sure I'll try it out too some day.

3) Loot! Loot is nice!

4) Two Hotspurs?!

Seems to be about what we theorized. But the details are fun to know : )

5) Anything else?

Is there anything else that I should take a second look at?

(Well except the fact that our new old friend started his introduction by selling his soul to some mushroom man :P)

Sorry guys been a bit under the weather lately and whenever I looked at the glorious new post-count of this game I got a bit of that syndrome you discussed earlier :P

Now! Some random points that have been brought up in the discussion!

1) Hi Posh!

Nice to meet you : )

Nice to meet you too. Sorry that you're under the weather.

Also I understand that with looking at new posts and thinking "S%!~, well maybe I'll read later." then it becomes days, weeks and even months.

(Well except the fact that our new old friend started his introduction by selling his soul to some mushroom man :P)

Eh, it happens. Though I doubt Posh's tainted soul with all his past issues makes him worth anything to this mysterious character in the well. Perhaps the body, but I don't believe Posh rolls that way.

(Well except the fact that our new old friend started his introduction by selling his soul to some mushroom man :P)

Jerry Garcia?

He can always bleach you :/

That said, I'm honestly curious how this turns out. If not for Zokon and Durgan, I would have opted for a heightened Continual Flame + water breathing + feather fall -_-

That said, it's not all just ranting. Alia's had it with reacting and finding we always end up with the short straw, and often in a situation worse off than before.

Also, just to let you know Alia. Out of character I understand her frustration, though Posh's current opinion is she's currently suffering under that infamous Elven pride and will possibly calm down later.

I have always loved the character development in this campaign. Even though this must be a record for how long part 1 has lasted, it doesn't feel like it's being dragged along and will be very helpful for downtime between part 1 and 2.

Lemme know how you want to spend your banked dough.... That reminds me did I explain the bank to Durgan and Serena?