The interesting question is if that's really Hotspur or not, fleeing on his own.
But I figured we might not really care either way. If it is him and he's stopped - yey?
If it's not him and he's stopped our host might be happy.
If it is him and he escapes - oh well but it wasn't like we could just murder hoboed him right?
If it wasn't him and he escapes - maybe someone actually murder hoboed the young annoyance for us!
If it is him and he escapes - oh well but it wasn't like we could just murder hoboed him right?
Yeah, but really of what possible consequence could that be down the road?
Just leaving that here...9 hours remaining at the time of posting...
Would have preferred a different AP, but then, I have no time to play now, anyway. So I see it as simply investing into getting more of that in the future.
So...
Falling
Creatures that fall take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6. Creatures that take lethal damage from a fall land in a prone position.
If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumps, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Acrobatics check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge.
Falls onto yielding surfaces (soft ground, mud) also convert the first 1d6 of damage to nonlethal damage. This reduction is cumulative with reduced damage due to deliberate jumps and the Acrobatics skill.
A character cannot cast a spell while falling, unless the fall is greater than 500 feet or the spell is an immediate action, such as feather fall. Casting a spell while falling requires a concentration check with a DC equal to 20 + the spell’s level. Casting teleport or a similar spell while falling does not end your momentum, it just changes your location, meaning that you still take falling damage, even if you arrive atop a solid surface.
if I jump deliberately and make an acrobatics check, AND land on a yielding surface(noble on a horse) that would mean I can jump from a height of 30 feet and only take 2d6 nonlethal damage, right?
How flexible is the rope? Could I move left-right as well or just up/down? Specifically, I am hoping to climb down diagonally, then hop on top of the guard house.
Or directly towards the Noble in the round after.
If that won't work, the question is if I am better of climbing all the way down and jumping to the ground floor over 2 rounds, or jump towards the battlements, then next round move to the guardhouse over 2 rounds.
Basically, what's the most workable solution to close distance to the guy given the current tactical situation? I'll go with your advice, as basically all my ideas depend on factors such as the rope allowing me to move somewhat freely in a lateral direction.
Hmh. You know that does look fun. I hadn't realized it was so close to release.
But I agree that I'd rather play another AP, wouldn't want spoilers!
So...
** spoiler omitted **if I jump deliberately and make an acrobatics check, AND land on a yielding surface(noble on a horse) that would mean I can jump from a height of 30 feet and only take 2d6 nonlethal damage, right?
How flexible is the rope? Could I move left-right as well or just up/down? Specifically, I am hoping to climb down diagonally, then hop on top of the guard house.
Or directly towards the Noble in the round after.
If that won't work, the question is if I am better of climbing all the way down and jumping to the ground floor over...
Technically, this makes you a Falling Object (scroll down a bit) too, throwing yourself at the man and his horse. "Bone" unfortunately does not count as a yielding substance when hit by 1,000 lbs (454 kg) of weight from above. All three of you would take 2d6 lethal damage from the impact (because Alia is not as dense as stone). This only applies if you hit your target. If you hit the ground next to him--well, personal falling rules apply, and the horse and rider probably need a towel.
The angles are such that Alia doesn't currently have a tackle-the-guy-off-his-horse option.
There are some abilities that allow you to swing from rope (mostly attached to the climb skill). Most of them are straight line sort of things, they don't really apply here because Alia would have to swing through solid stone.
Alia can use acrobatics to leap laterally (once she gets around to the right side), but unless she climbs down far enough to give herself enough slack the rope doesn't have enough length to circumnavigate the tower. Right now Alia has 3 feet (1 meter) of slack, it would take minimally 25 feet of slack of wrap it around to the other side, and that's at the 65ish foot level (that would take some serious swinging considering Alia's current mass). If you wanted Alia to be closer to the ground she would have give the rope more slack. Swinging is also perhaps a bit more dangerous to attempt because Alia no longer weighs 125 lbs, and the battlements have obviously seen better days. It would probably be quickest to climb to the top race across the 10 feet along the top of battlements and jump.
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Just leaving that here...9 hours remaining at the time of posting...
Would have preferred a different AP, but then, I have no time to play now, anyway. So I see it as simply investing into getting more of that in the future.
Yeah, it has popped up on GOG.com. It would be a strain on the budget, but I am having a hard time resiting the impluse to get it.
Aight. Quick check of how people feel about simply letting the door open and Hotspur (or "Hotspur") escape?
(On a side-note I don't think our host minds if he does what he does. At least not right now!)
I'm fine either way. Whatever is the least likely to get the party and her Company at each other's throats.
I already screwed up once in my interpretation of the situation. Do what you think best.
He tried to kill us and the mercenaries are sworn to his service, if they are as honourable as they say they will keep doing his bidding til he is dead.
This is the worry I have, just because the mayor comes along does not mean they will stop serving Hotspur.
I concur with Zokon.
Letting Hotspur leave is only likely to cause problems down the road because his contract remains - but even without considering the contract: it does not mean he will give up any plans he had, and may even be so petty as to try and get revenge on us.
If he dies or is officially forced to cancel the contract with the mercs(and we re-enlist them for our purpose), that's more likely to not end with us facing off against the company.
He tried to kill us
I might have missed that part or simply forgotten - has he actually done that?
I thought he was simply annoying and stealing our mercenaries. Well in addition to cooperating with a horrible mass murdering maniac.
He told the mercs to kill us.
Thanks for the heads up, and get well soon!
Well, Scarlet's in a huge moral bind. The only thing that makes it decent is this big horse in the way.
Aye Scarlet...I didn't figure the Dwarfs would take the direct way down so quickly. They kinda broke out the top, then jumped down and darkened the area inmediately, without giving me much room to do something.
I don't think squeezing past darkvision-guys told to "take care of us" is going to work out well, and Alia is not aware the gate is - probably - actually up, as she had no time to take a look or interact.
I think I'm pretty much trapped where I am and can only try and force Hotspur to submit - or hope your brother-in-arms remembers your contract and only knocks me out rather than outright killing me. -_-
Durgan really doesn't want to have to break out the scroll of Deadly Juggernaut on the mercs, but he will if he has to. He knows nothing about how tough these guys are.
Aye, we're in quite a tough spot. Don't mind Scarlet, she's having a huge crisis. Her Bro is trying to at least escort the Wonderhorse out of the slick.
Oh well, maybe the city watch will reach the castle and break up our little stalemate here.
@Durgan: The doubly bad part is that we actually don't want to fight the mercs...we want them to fight for us...against the Staglord, instead of with him -. -_-
@Scarlet: Aye, no worries, I understand. But if he starts hacking at me, I'd appreciate if you ask him to use the flat of his weapon though, as I have no intention of stabbing him unless I fear for my life... :P
@RPGGM: I am blind, but not deaf. If he dismounted, there's a chance I should have heared him, seeing how I was focused on him.
That said, if he didn't have the potion on-hand, he might have needed to retrieve it first, and drinking it should be an action by itself.
Even if he automatically succeeds at his fast dismount(which he needs to have done before he spent his move action if the potion was not on hand) that kind of thing should be audible.
Do I get some check in response to pinpoint him?
Do I need to spend a move action to perceive him if he is in range, then stab with my standard? What CAN I do?
That said, waiting to see if the glitterdust manages to go off and if somebody can give directions.
Much of this was dealt with in the previous bot round, but Hotspur has had a round since so conceivably he has moved somewhere. Characters can certainly make perception checks to ferret invisible targets (once as a general reaction to their environment--often I'll do those for you; or as a move action where you are either tearing through desk drawer or listening very hard to the world around you).
There are options for finding invisible foes, but most of them involve being able to see footprints in sand, or the outline of someone covered in flour, which isn't really possible for Alia in darkness.
There are however other things to consider too, like the environment, how far a target could move, where they could go, where they want to go, and whether or not the darkness is effecting them as well. In light of common knowledge, standing in front of the door is not a bad option (Alia can fit under the wall in the gate tunnel, which is 20' tall) as at the very least it would be difficult to get around her.
Running a bit behind, it might be early tomorrow before I get a real post up. Sorry. :)
The web spell in that description is double dipping on the +10..
CMD is already 10+CMB
and as is pointed out a lvl 13 wizard would get reasonably shut down by a 3rd level wizard casting web.... not what should happen..
Basically the target should be 17 which is much more reasonable for a 2nd level spell.
I concur with Zokon.
I believe it should be "Spell DC minus 10 as CMB part", which would cover both for spells and align correctly with the calculation of Supernatural/Extraordinary abilities (specifically drawing attention to Web(Ex) which uses 10 + 1/2 HP + Con mod as DC...but of course, those only entangle, which uses a flat 15+spell level as DC for concentration). Basically what I'm trying to say is that double dipping the +10 does not align with how things work across other aspects of pathfinder.
Also: Oh jeez. You did not...Do not try it my a*s...he should have considered uttering that before forcing me to let go of my attached object...like, trip me or whatever. But touch that blade and love is over.
Black Tentacles has a CMB listed, it's caster level +5. So, going by JJs logic, casting in Web is much much harder unless the Black Tentacle mage has several extra levels. They break even at Int 14 and CL 9. If the mage is any smarter then that it takes even longer. Int 20 means you need CL 12 for Tentacles to be as scary as Web.
Typically if one want to escape a grapple you roll vs CMD. For something to have equal CMD to CMB they would need to be the equivalent to a Diminutive Dex 6 creature. They can't be Fine since Dex modifiers bottom out at -5 and Fine is only a -4 CMD penalty. So for the DC to break free (CMD) to be equal to the DC to concentrate (CMB) the thing would have to be pretty extraordinary.
JJ doesn't write the rules and, while he does much awesome stuff, rules aren't among them.
Buuuuuut seeing as there aren't anything more concrete other then a pile of threads asking the same thing that might be the closest thing to an official answer.
On the bright side we can now simply web any caster with less then stellar reflex saves and enjoy our free lunch : )
(I'd make an argument about how silly it would be for such a low level spell to shut down casters but then I remembered that Silence exists ... :P)
So, let's say I put fire to the web. Do you guys mind taking fire damage in exchange for freedom?
As I mentioned before, Scarlet will not fight her Company, so she's ping ponging between her charge and her bro- whom are about to fight each other. Fun!
I think Numalar is somewhat fireproof. And, if we are going by the DC as CMB, pretty much unable to cast spells until he escapes. So I guess he's fine with it.
Illthir isn't very fireproof and also not grappled. She might even appreciate the cover the web gives! But she really won't complain too much about being singed for the greater good.
Also, that bas*ard gets a Black Katana.
When I wanted an exotic rare weapon to use and asked about Katana(because I was plenty certain it would not be local) that was a no because eastern... :/
Don't get me wrong, perfectly happy with my Estoc, but he's like my mortal nemesis now both IC and OOC :P
I'll just need to consider how to proceed :P
And Sorry Scarlet :P
"While you were partying, I studied the blade" -BB Beetle
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The web spell in that description is double dipping on the +10..CMD is already 10+CMB
and as is pointed out a lvl 13 wizard would get reasonably shut down by a 3rd level wizard casting web.... not what should happen..
Basically the target should be 17 which is much more reasonable for a 2nd level spell.
I had figured this as well.
When you are grappled you can escape using an Escape Artist check against the CMD of the grappler. With web, you use the spell's DC to escape. So the spell DC is basically equivalent to the spell's CMD.
Since CMB is normally roughly equal to CMD-10 then a formula that uses 10+CMB could also use CMD as a rough equivalent, which would be the spell's save DC.
I know James Jacobs made that post you liked to, but I think it was a quick, off-the-cuff response and he clearly didn't look at the responses in the thread.
Oddly, the ruling also means that with my +2 to escape artist I can escape from the web on a natural 14, but I need a natural 19 to cast glitterdust with a concentration of +9.
Head about to explode. Grapple rules is such a weird choice too. Animate things grapple, objects just entangle. Does it get +5 if it maintains next round? Does it 'try' to pin?
I could see it messing with about three-quarters of the casting a non-grappling-optimized caster might throw because honestly that is one of the things that makes the spell so useful. And yes a lower level wizard with it could drop a higher level one just like a live cockatrice dropped on an unwary sorcerer's head could as well.
At low level it is about as devastating as being grabbed by a CR 4 or 5 grizzly or advanced grizzly (minus all the biting and clawing), though it doesn't really scale up at the higher levels.... It's just weird.
It is one of those things that I'm going to want to revisit/rewrite when I get a moment and then never get a moment to do so and therefore never actually use again in a game.
Where's my Rules Cyclopedia!
Alia, you're an elf now. That's it, just an elf, period.
EDIT Edit since we have moved on to a point of complicated return in the the gameplay thread I will note that had the spell struck, it would have resulted in some indistinct cursing, and Angus would have brought out one very sparkly (probably blinded) bareback, white stallion out from the darkness.
Where's my Rules Cyclopedia!
Alia, you're an elf now. That's it, just an elf, period.
Works out great! Magus, B/X elf, close enough.
And for Durgan, there's a dwarf-cleric option in Dwarves of Rockhome. I lose Turn Undead, can't Raise Dead on non-dwarves, and need a ton of XP, but get those great Dwarf saves and attack rolls and can use axes and hammers.(I do love Classic.)
Sorry to jump in on a rules discussion, but I got hit so I have to ask how Ledda actually hit me.
I began my round in front of Durgan and used the Withdraw action. So I don't provoke when I'm next to Durgan and I should be out of range on Durgan's square, so Ledda can't reach me.
Orange and Red can get AoOs, though.
If you are a fan of the Norwold Campaign (CM 1: Test of the Warlords CM 2: Death's Ride, et al...) from the D&D Known World Setting prepare for some nostalgia.
Sorry to jump in on a rules discussion, but I got hit so I have to ask how Ledda actually hit me.
I began my round in front of Durgan and used the Withdraw action. So I don't provoke when I'm next to Durgan and I should be out of range on Durgan's square, so Ledda can't reach me.
Orange and Red can get AoOs, though.
Sorry, I didn't see the word 'Withdraw' in Scarlet's last post. (Yes, I am keyword trained and conditioned). I can correct that. Red is using his AoO on a paper tiger so only orange strikes out at Scarlet.
Fixt'd. Now back to CSPAN for more of the Senatorial Committee for fixing the web spell, and more D&D nostalgia!
Sorry about the lack of Withdraw. I'm just trying not to ask too many questions because the web spell is complicated enough.
Forget it. I have. More nostalgia! That and Scarlet would be a total rebuild in the old rules. ;)
I never ran anything at Companion levels. Got up to 9 or so back in the day, with KotB, Isle of Dread, Master of the Desert Nomads, and some material from the Gazetteers.
The Known World/Mystara changed quite a bit depending on who was writing. My favorite was probably Tom Moldvay who had a "pulp adventure / weird fiction" vibe (I'm a player in Numalar's B/X Lost City game, and would love to run or play Castle Amber someday). I also liked most of Aaron Allston's work, which felt very grounded (kind of Game of Thrones-esque). Bruce Heard's take on the setting had the fantastic being way more commonplace (maybe Eberron-esque), which wasn't my speed as much.
I wrote a Dungeon adventure in homage to the Lost City once (which I mention to people far far too often ;)). Ah, good times that pyramid.
I have fond memories of the battling the Master of the Desert Nomads too (so expect some nostalgia from that direction as well, when we build up to armies and such). I thought Heard was an able steward of the world, it is just that his airship, the Princess Ark was sailing the rarefied air of a world setting that was such a patchwork of design that depending on where in the world you campaigned you could be in the stone age, riding with Native Americans or Mongol hordes, or you could be in Alphatia with its ruling council of 1,000 36th level magic-users--or (my personal favorite) in the Broken Lands trying to find some decent shoes to march in so you can join a horde and go loot the so-called civilized lands.
I am fine with being an Elf.
Not like it would be a huge change in theme from now :)
I fell asleep while writing the post yesterday :(
I will post in a couple hours, just quickly dropped in to let you know I won't need botting this time around, just need to wait until evening to have time to write. Sorry.
What's the story with Alia being an elf. . Elf as compared to an elf??
"Elf" was a character class very early in dungeons and dragons
In ye old D&D the classes a player could choose from were: Cleric, Fighter, Magic-User (read: wizard), Thief (read: rogue), Dwarf, Elf and Halfling. So the first few are pretty self-explanatory. The Dwarf was more or less a shorter fighter with good saves and nifty racial abilities. The Halfling was much the same, but with different racial abilities. The Elf was basically a combination Fighter/Magic-User (read: magus) who could wear armor and cast spells.
Weird/interesting thing was that the various classes each had their own XP-leveling progressions. On the low end, Thieves only needed 1,200 XP to get to 2nd level, while Wizards needed 2,500 XP and Elves--ELVES! needed 4,000, so they always sort of lagged behind the party's average level, along with Wizards who had the second worst progression.
And no, I didn't have to look any of that up. ;)
Everyone! Save vs. Death Ray!
An Elf in Classic D&D came out pretty close to a Ftr/Wiz in AD&D.
They needed twice as much XP, but XP requirements roughly doubled every level until Name level (9th+), so they were usually one level behind.
Classic had a good run (1977-1994, more or less) and has a good number of retro-clones these days.