Hi hope I'm not overstepping my boundries by posting this here and if I am I apolagise. Just wanted to say that as a longtime reader of a lot of Golarion stuff I agree with Joana's overview of the society (Although I put it down to them botching Seeker of secrets than how the society is intended to come across). However I would say shatterd star (So far) and the Orsirion module series presents them in a better light. Also I just want to say Ive been following this play by post for some time and am really enjoying the characters.
Again my apolagies if I'm overstepping by posting this here.
You're not overstepping your bounds at all, and I welcome any and all comments.
I would agree that there are products that present the Pathfinders in a better light than Seekers of Secrets. The Osirian modules came out well before Seekers, and (assuming I'm remembering correctly, as it's been awhile since I read them) present the Society in much the way Joana thought of them before reading Seekers.
Shattered Star really only has Sheila Heidmarch as any representation of the Pathfinders (at least as far as the middle of Asylum Stone, which is as far as I've gotten so far), and she can come across as quite haughty and snobbish. The very first thing that happens in Shattered Star is, the PCs arrive to see her at her request, and she proceeds to ignore them for quite some time while she talks to someone more important. Not the most endearing introduction. :)
Sadly, she's of noble birth, so we can't imagine her having to clean chamberpots. We'll just have to imagine her sniggering unpleasantly at the chumps who got told by their handlers to clean hers for the few weeks she was there before her confirmation was rubber-stamped and she went on to use the Society as her own personal dating service. The service must be amazing for the nobility at the Grand Lodge with the ratio of slaves to people worthy of being served, like a five-star resort in a country with no recognition of human rights. :P
This is an awkward time to be in this kind of discussion with Wander Weir AWOL. Lorenz has always been the most invested in the Pathfinder thing. It doesn't feel like we should go very much farther without his input.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I've actually been deliberately taking things a bit slowly this week because I keep thinking that Lorenz would have something to say, so I should wait for Wander to get a chance to post.
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I started reading your pbp over here about the time that I was going to run the same AP. (We are in Book 3 now) I check back in from time to time and read up in a big block and enjoy checking in on your progress. :)
Without spoiling anything, I think the main advantage of having a faction is the ability to buy and sell loot. You are headed into the dark heart of the Mwangi Expanse with a long, long trek back to civilization. Without allies you will be on your own until someone learns how to teleport.
What got you worked up in the fiction? The schemers in the new one are players at the highest levels jockeying for position. I wouldn't think they represent the rank and file, but at the same time the organization was always supposed to be neutral rather than good. All of the things that you point out from the passage in seeker of secrets could also apply to military training except the clothing being green rather than gray and the length of training. The society is definitely training recruits to handle all manner of life and death situations, but they are also putting them through a sort of specialized university system focused on things like history, arcane theory, dead languages, avoiding traps and curses etc. They aren't sending anyone on missions out of the goodness of their hearts, but the training presumably is to keep them from getting their faces eaten off the first time out of the gate.
In any case, you've got a superb GM and I trust he'll make it work whatever your group may decide in the end.
Cheers and looking forward to dropping back in to catch up at a later date :)
And Douena would never join the military, either. I can't imagine any Chaotic person doing so. I certainly never could, any more than I ever wanted to rush a sorority and spend time kissing up to upperclassmen for the "reward" of getting to be part of a group whose arrogance I despise.
In game terms, people have been playing adventurers for at least 38 years without having to go through any sort of "specialized university system" or needing to have a backstory that includes being subservient to high-level NPCs until they are "deemed worthy" to follow orders without asking questions and give a percentage of what they find back to their handlers. I find the concept demeaning and distasteful in real life. I certainly don't play an RPG to follow orders from NPCs.
Personally I've always preferred playing a character who gets caught up in events and is forced to become a hero to the (IMO) tired trope of "I've always wanted to be an adventurer so I'll go to adventurer school." Honestly, it's one of the reasons I loved the first book of Serpent's Skull: What's more unexpected than "You're on your way somewhere else to get on with the rest of your life when you're suddenly shipwrecked with a group of strangers and have to preserve your lives and find a way to get rescued, while negotiating the group dynamics?" That's my ideal adventure: no authorities, no high-level NPCs giving orders, no rails.
EDIT: Mike Brock and James Jacobs are both now on record as in favor of scrubbing the "training" chapter of Seeker of Secrets from canon, largely because of the number of people who, like me, found it demeaning and want nothing to do with the Society because of it. So it's not just me being unreasonable.
+1 to Joana's post. Abso-freaking-lutely! What has happened to Paizo into where it seems here lately that every AP has some form of NPC to follow?
What has happened to the game to where adventurers go adventuring because that's what this game should be about? The pc's. NEVER the npc's. In my opinion, Paizo has gotten away from what this game is truly about by implementing all these npc's the pc's they think they should be following in the majority of their AP's. Bad idea.
As a pc, I don't care about the npc's story. I care about my pc's story. IF you want an npc story, write a novel and sell it. Don't make it a part of my game.
That's my 2 cents. Keep it, I don't need it.
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+1 to Joana's post. Abso-freaking-lutely! What has happened to Paizo into where it seems here lately that every AP has some form of NPC to follow?
What has happened to the game to where adventurers go adventuring because that's what this game should be about? The pc's. NEVER the npc's. In my opinion, Paizo has gotten away from what this game is truly about by implementing all these npc's the pc's they think they should be following in the majority of their AP's. Bad idea.
As a pc, I don't care about the npc's story. I care about my pc's story. IF you want an npc story, write a novel and sell it. Don't make it a part of my game.
That's my 2 cents. Keep it, I don't need it.
I would argue to an extent that it is partly why it is an Ap and not just randomly running around kicking doors open. (To be fair the getting orders/requests from NPC'S has been in the Ap's from day one to one degree or another.)
To me, there's a big difference between being asked to do something to help out an NPC below or at approximately the same level the PCs are and being ordered to do something by a higher-level NPC who expects to be obeyed. It's the difference between being a hero and being an employee.
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What got you worked up in the fiction? The schemers in the new one are players at the highest levels jockeying for position. I wouldn't think they represent the rank and file, but at the same time the organization was always supposed to be neutral rather than good. All of the things that you point out from the passage in seeker of secrets could also apply to military training except the clothing being green rather than gray and the length of training. The society is definitely training recruits to handle all manner of life and death situations, but they are also putting them through a sort of specialized university system focused on things like history, arcane theory, dead languages, avoiding traps and curses etc. They aren't sending anyone on missions out of the goodness of their hearts, but the training presumably is to keep them from getting their faces eaten off the first time out of the gate.
To be fair I do agree with the raw recruit getting training part and if Seeker of secrets had just said New recruits get a year or two of training that wouldent have been a problem. It's the type of training they describe thats the problem (How does being forced to clean chamber pots help them to survive traps for example?)
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You could ask a marine the same thing. Lots of toilet scrubbing to go around. But I'm perfectly fine if they recon all of that stuff. I'm pretty sure it says that they issue field commissions or something similar to candidates with enough experience so not everyone goes through the boot camp thing as is.
I don't know. Maybe I missed where it occurred in this pbp, but I don't recall any of the factions "giving orders and expecting to be obeyed." My impression is more that they hire the pcs for a job and it is entirely in your hands as to how you go about doing that job once you have accepted it- if you did in the first place. The rewards on offer and terms of the job were negotiable to a degree when they made their pitch. That seems like fairly standard fare for adventuring from the beginning. I don't mean to provoke you, I just have the impression that the thing that is rubbing you the wrong way might be a misunderstanding.
You could ask a marine the same thing. Lots of toilet scrubbing to go around.
The Marines have a goal of making sure their soldiers respect the chain of authority at all times and obey orders without question. As such, humiliation is part of the package -- and the promise that if they humble themselves now, soon enough they'll be able to humiliate the new recruits as they themselves were humiliated. I find the whole thing dehumanizing, on both sides of the hazing.
I'm pretty sure it says that they issue field commissions or something similar to candidates with enough experience so not everyone goes through the boot camp thing as is.
On certain occasions, an adventurer or scholar may so
distinguish himself through great works that he’s offered
full Pathfinder status without undergoing any of the
standard tests or training. These appointments, called
“field commissions” within the Society, are rare and
approved directly by the Decemvirate, and only those who
have significantly changed the course of history can ever
hope to receive such an honor.A lesser, more common brand of field commission
applies when an unaffiliated adventurer makes some
discovery on par with those of a Pathfinder and decides
to report his findings to the Society. In this case, the
Pathfinders will sometimes offer to accept him as an
initiate and apply his findings toward his Confirmation,
though they may still require him to receive additional
training, spend time scrubbing statues in the Grand Lodge,
or perform additional tasks in order to bring him in line
with the Society’s goals and methods. For this reason,
aspiring Pathfinders sometimes tag along behind Society
members or conduct their own research rather than
traveling immediately to the Grand Lodge for testing,
fearing rejection before they can prove themselves.
So unless Amivor Glaur is a secret member of the Decemvirate, he doesn't have the authority to let us bypass the menial tasks in Absalom "to bring [us] in line with the Society's goals and methods" -- read, to take us down a peg, break our wills, and make sure we know who's really important in Golarion and it's not us.
I don't know. Maybe I missed where it occurred in this pbp, but I don't recall any of the factions "giving orders and expecting to be obeyed." My impression is more that they hire the pcs for a job and it is entirely in your hands as to how you go about doing that job once you have accepted it- if you did in the first place. The rewards on offer and terms of the job were negotiable to a degree when they made their pitch.
As written, all the NPC castaways are supposed to betray the party and go spilling secrets to their friends. As portrayed by Navior, only Gelik did it. Our first day in Eleder, he shows up with the news that the Pathfinders will be using the information we risked out lives to discover for their own benefit -- and as a special favor, they'll condescend to let us work for them. By the time any of the other factions contacted us, we'd already agreed to work for the Pathfinders -- very unhappily and under a great deal of protest in my PC's case -- and didn't have an opportunity to see what anyone else would offer. Since then, we've done exactly what they said to do, including going to Kalabuto when we had no other reason to than their recommendation, and trusting their agent to protect us, which culminated in the death of a friend.
While I agree with Navior that "the NPCs you've helped and trusted and fought alongside all this time betray you" is a horrible plot turn, at least it would have felt like we had a real choice in selecting a faction. We didn't get to negotiate from a position of strength, where we were wooed by the different groups, but from a position of weakness, where our trump card had already been taken from us and given to the Pathfinders; it was more like a shotgun marriage.
That seems like fairly standard fare for adventuring from the beginning.
Not standard for me. I don't play Pathfinder to be "hired for a job." That's what mercenaries do. Heroes do things because they want to, for their enjoyment and sense of adventure, or for the betterment of the world (or their little corner of it) because no one else is available who can do the job. If the Pathfinder Society wants people to do their work for them, they have a world full of NPCs they can hire -- and that's exactly what they would have done if we'd turned them down. They didn't come to us saying "We need you and can't do it without you"; they said, "We're doing this with or without you, so it's in your best interest to tag along on our expedition." It's the difference between rescuing Ameiko because she's in danger and no one else is around to do it (RotRL) and hiring on as bodyguards to protect her when she travels (Jade Regent). In the first instance, we're her heroes; in the second, we're her retinue. I like playing the amateur caught up in events beyond her control, not the professional adventurer weighing offers for a job.
I don't mean to provoke you, I just have the impression that the thing that is rubbing you the wrong way might be a misunderstanding.
It's not a misunderstanding. I know who and what the Pathfinder Society is, and I don't like them. I find them arrogant and smug, and the fiction I've seen* makes it clear they're also selfish and corrupt at the highest echelons. Why on earth would I want to be associated with them? From an in-game standpoint, Douena also finds them arrogant and smug, although she knows nothing about the Decemvirate. In addition, the Pathfinders are associated with the NPC whom Douena least likes and who betrayed us. As we never said anything to anyone about our discovery, the fact that everyone knows what we're up to is also traceable to their security leaks, and they sent us to an agent with a "safe house" who completely failed to protect us and wasn't even on the premises when our friend was killed because he spent all evening at a strip club instead of getting our entirely unnecessary supplies before dark. What reason does she have to respect them as a professional organization?
As written, all the NPC castaways are supposed to betray the party and go spilling secrets to their friends. As portrayed by Navior, only Gelik did it. Our first day in Eleder, he shows up with the news that the Pathfinders will be using the information we risked out lives to discover for their own benefit -- and as a special favor, they'll condescend to let us work for them. By the time any of the other factions contacted us, we'd already agreed to work for the Pathfinders -- very unhappily and under a great deal of protest in my PC's case -- and didn't have an opportunity to see what anyone else would offer. Since then, we've done exactly what they said to do, including going to Kalabuto when we had no other reason to than their recommendation, and trusting their agent to protect us, which culminated in the death of a friend.
While I agree with Navior that "the NPCs you've helped and trusted and fought alongside all this time betray you" is a horrible plot turn, at least it would have felt like we had a real choice in selecting a faction. We didn't get to negotiate from a position of strength, where we were wooed by the different groups, but from a position of weakness, where our trump card had already been taken from us and given to the Pathfinders; it was more like a shotgun marriage.
Yeah, that's something that didn't occur to me when I made that change. In retrospect, I can totally see how it ended up looking like you were forced into working for the Pathfinders. That wasn't the intention, but it can certainly look that way.
There are many factors coming together here, and the way it is presented makes a big difference. For example: is it really the NPCs betraying their Shiv comrades if they each try to get their faction to ally with the PCs? From the bit of Serpent Skull that I've prepared as a GM (part 1 and the intro to part 2), the factions that vie for the PCs attention leave the Pathfinders (in my opinion) as the "goodest" of the lot.
I don't have objections to the way the run things; in fact for a organization who makes it its business to find and catalog the history of the world in the face of extreme danger - I am thankful that they have a rigorous training program.
On the other hand, I fully agree that characters of chaotic alignment are not naturally suited to the society through the means of the training process (but presumably they can make outstanding entries via field commissions). However, by the same token, I have a hard time understanding chaotic characters' ability to participate in long-term adventures. What self-respecting chaotic can subject him/herself to something as disciplined as communing with their god on a daily basis at a fixed time? Or sticking to one group of people (the adventuring party) for more than a week? Or bother to actually write down magic on paper to repeatedly study it again later? Or for that matter, manage to keep their loot/gear without gambling it all away every second opportunity?
(To answer my own question: being chaotically aligned is not necessarily about making snap or random decisions, but can also be about making use of not-by-the-book methods and following ideologies that spurn conventions. As such, the Pathfinder Society can be a fertile ground for chaotics, as the society cares about results, not methods. Having a rigorous and formalized training program is deemed by the society to yield the best overall results, hence it is used. If next year they discover that they can get even better results by rolling dice during the sighting of a rainbow - then they damnwell will do that.)
Think of an example of a conceptually highly chaotic ecosystem: a pirate ship! This collection of chaotic buccaneers is anything but chaotic when it comes to acting as a unit. Sailing a ship (even a pirate ship) is a highly disciplined process. Strict hierarchy and chain-of-command is maintained and punishment is very severe (even on a chaotic-good pirate ship) as mistakes risk the lives of the entire crew. A rigorous training process precedes the graduation of a cabin boy to a full-fledged sailor. Worrying about cleaning chamberpots is the least of his worries.
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As an aside, Kalabuto may not have been on the list of places to visit to get to the Lost City; but it's important to Mahjik and he'd have tried to engineer a reason to come here - conveniently the Pathfinder's made that happen for him. Likewise, he won't immediately leave the city right away if Douena and the rest leave now as his reason for visiting is not done. So he will find a reason to stay a little while longer for himself (then catch-up later) if necessary.
Well I must apologise it seems I may have hit a sore spot bringing this up.
No, hey, your thread in General Discussion got the head of Organized Play and the creative director on record as being in favor of retconning the most obnoxious parts of the Society out of canon! That's fantastic! This is my third time around arguing with the Society fanboys, and I could never get James Jacobs off the fence about it. So kudos to you!
For example: is it really the NPCs betraying their Shiv comrades if they each try to get their faction to ally with the PCs?
When it's phrased as "I've already told my faction about your discovery; either help them find it, or they'll do their best to kill you?" Absolutely it is. That's not an alliance; it's blackmail. Part of being someone's friend and ally is not putting them in a situation where there are attempts on their life.
From the bit of Serpent Skull that I've prepared as a GM (part 1 and the intro to part 2), the factions that vie for the PCs attention leave the Pathfinders (in my opinion) as the "goodest" of the lot.
And I can guarantee that if I prepared the adventure to run, they'd come off as obnoxious elitist snobs. That proves nothing other than the fact that we both have pre-existing biases and try to nudge the players to do what we think is cool.
As for Chaotics being able to work in regimentation, the church of every chaotic deity is specifically described as being, in direct contrast to the Pathfinders, non-hierarchical. So there must be something to the description of Chaos in the rulebook as resenting even legitimate authority. Clerics of Desna are explicitly described as preferring to leave and strike out on their own than spend time in unpleasant disputation and difference of opinion.
Or sticking to one group of people (the adventuring party) for more than a week?
Interestingly enough, Douena's original backstory when she was in a 6th-level module included having been with several different parties that she wandered away from when she stumbled across something more interesting going on somewhere else.
Also...
Think of an example of a conceptually highly chaotic ecosystem: a pirate ship! This collection of chaotic buccaneers is anything but chaotic when it comes to acting as a unit. Sailing a ship (even a pirate ship) is a highly disciplined process. Strict hierarchy and chain-of-command is maintained and punishment is very severe (even on a chaotic-good pirate ship) as mistakes risk the lives of the entire crew. A rigorous training process precedes the graduation of a cabin boy to a full-fledged sailor. Worrying about cleaning chamberpots is the least of his worries.
Poor example, as I recently quit a Skull & Shackles game with an excellent DM and group of players because the extreme regimentation and getting pushed around infuriated me to the extent that I couldn't enjoy the campaign. Besides, most pirates are Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral, which are specifically described as caring about their own freedom of expression but no one else's. Chaotic Good is the stand-up-for-the-mistreated alignment.
Look, I don't have a problem with the Pathfinder Society existing in-game. I don't have a problem with people wanting to play PCs affiliated with the Pathfinders. If playing mercenaries and earning brownie points with arrogant NPCs is your idea of fun, go ahead. I'm not trying to shut down Organized Play. I'm even trying to compartmentalize my visceral dislike of the Pathfinders from what Douena could reasonably know about them for the purposes of this campaign.
What I am SICK TO DEATH of is people trying to persuade me that I'm wrong not to like them. Complete strangers feel the need to proselytize me on the Society's behalf. I'm just as free not to like them or want anything to do with them as everyone else is to swoon at how dreamy they are. You want to argue with Douena in-game about the merits of the Society, go ahead, but I am tired of being put in the position of having to defend my own subjective preferences. It's like trying to convince me I "should" like seafood or watermelon. Honestly, much like Ameiko, I'd hate the Society a whole lot less if people would stop trying to force me to admire them.
For example: is it really the NPCs betraying their Shiv comrades if they each try to get their faction to ally with the PCs?When it's phrased as "I've already told my faction about your discovery; either help them find it, or they'll do their best to kill you?" Absolutely it is. That's not an alliance; it's blackmail. Part of being someone's friend and ally is not putting them in a situation where there are attempts on their life.
That is why I said that the "way its presented" makes a big difference. Nobody forces the GM to introduce the factions in that way. In fact, the way the Aspis got introduced in this pbp made them positively likable, albeit misunderstood, entrepreneurs.
The other potential factions: oppressive colonial government, pirates, red mantis assassins, aspis consortium. No matter how you cut it (and including the Pathfinders): there is no "good" faction to choose from.
From the bit of Serpent Skull that I've prepared as a GM (part 1 and the intro to part 2), the factions that vie for the PCs attention leave the Pathfinders (in my opinion) as the "goodest" of the lot.And I can guarantee that if I prepared the adventure to run, they'd come off as obnoxious elitist snobs. That proves nothing other than the fact that we both have pre-existing biases and try to nudge the players to do what we think is cool.
You'd be welcome to. The point is that if you apply your insight into each of the presented factions, then they all stink. Objectively speaking, the faction who on a philosophical level tries to preserve the heritage of the world is the noblest. No amount of like/dislike will change who or what the other factions are and what they stand for.
Think of an example of a conceptually highly chaotic ecosystem: a pirate ship! This collection of chaotic buccaneers is anything but chaotic when it comes to acting as a unit. Sailing a ship (even a pirate ship) is a highly disciplined process. Strict hierarchy and chain-of-command is maintained and punishment is very severe (even on a chaotic-good pirate ship) as mistakes risk the lives of the entire crew. A rigorous training process precedes the graduation of a cabin boy to a full-fledged sailor. Worrying about cleaning chamberpots is the least of his worries.Poor example, as I recently quit a Skull & Shackles game with an excellent DM and group of players because the extreme regimentation and getting pushed around infuriated me to the extent that I couldn't enjoy the campaign. Besides, most pirates are Chaotic Evil or Chaotic Neutral, which are specifically described as caring about their own freedom of expression but no one else's. Chaotic Good is the stand-up-for-the-mistreated alignment.
Actually it is a great example. I think. Your experiences with a pirate ship have little to do with the point: pirate ships are a collection of chaotic sea-faring badasses. At the same time the chaos is highly disciplined and structured. Chaotic individuals that make up such an ecosystem could very well also fit in with the Pathfinder Society.
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Now all this isn't to take away anything from Douena and her opinion (or your own for that matter). I don't have strong feelings for the Pathfinder Society. I don't like the Boy Scouts (real life) either. For much the same reasons that you cite on the Pathfinders. I'm just addressing the nature of the argument that the Pathfinders are not suitable for chaotics.
As far as Mahjik is concerned, the Pathfinders are pushing his (and thereby Mahjik's own faction's) agenda. So he's happy to keep using them.
When it's phrased as "I've already told my faction about your discovery; either help them find it, or they'll do their best to kill you?" Absolutely it is. That's not an alliance; it's blackmail. Part of being someone's friend and ally is not putting them in a situation where there are attempts on their life.That is why I said that the "way its presented" makes a big difference. Nobody forces the GM to introduce the factions in that way. In fact, the way the Aspis got introduced in this pbp made them positively likable, albeit misunderstood, entrepreneurs.
The other potential factions: oppressive colonial government, pirates, red mantis assassins, aspis consortium. No matter how you cut it (and including the Pathfinders): there is no "good" faction to choose from.
Of course nobody forces the GM to do anything. I've made a bunch of changes to this adventure and nobody's banging at my door telling me to stop. However, as written, the adventure does instruct the GM to choose a primary rival faction (based on what fits best with the GM's particular game) to oppose the PCs. This rival faction is the one that is behind the various attempts on the PCs' lives.
And so, no matter who the PCs say yes to and who they say no to, at least one of the factions will try to kill them.
The other potential factions: oppressive colonial government, pirates, red mantis assassins, aspis consortium. No matter how you cut it (and including the Pathfinders): there is no "good" faction to choose from.
...The point is that if you apply your insight into each of the presented factions, then they all stink. Objectively speaking, the faction who on a philosophical level tries to preserve the heritage of the world is the noblest. No amount of like/dislike will change who or what the other factions are and what they stand for.
Which is why I'm unhappy that the AP forces us to choose one of them at all. I would love for us to be our own faction, competing against all these jerks. That would be fun and motivate Douena to try to "win" instead of really not caring at all if we find the city or not, since we're doing it to benefit a group she doesn't like. (And remember the Sargavan government used Jask's kidnapping to blackmail us into getting the Pathfinders to cut them in on the deal. So now our mission helps both elitist snobs and an oppressive government that condones racial slavery. 'Yay, us; hope we win?' :P) That's why Douena would rather wash her hands of the whole affair and let the five (?) factions kill each other for the city. Golarion's better off with fewer of all five of them, afaic, and good riddance.
But at least if we'd chosen another faction, everyone would be with Douena about not being thrilled about the deal with the devil we had to make instead of burbling on about how good and noble and true the Pathfinders are and lecturing her about how she ought to feel to be their pawn.
While Douena can't shake the dust of Kalabuto off her feet fast enough, it seems wrong to just go off and leave Jask's remains. Perhaps if Mahjik intends to stay in Kalabuto on his own personal monk-y business, he could handle the arrangements?
Or... if we pawned our extraordinarily prestigious wayfinders that are so 'useful' and 'indispensable' no one's taken the wrapper off theirs since we left Eleder, we could totally afford a reincarnation, assuming we could track down an amenable 7th-level druid.
Hey folks, things will be slow over the next few days. I'm finishing up a couple of major writing projects that are taking up a lot of my time (and the rest is taken up with teaching). With the holidays starting next week, I'll have more time again. Yay!
It'll give Wander some more time to sort things out and rejoin us. I really hope he's okay. He's been absent a long time. Wander, if you can find even a moment to give a brief heads-up, that would be great.
It'll also give Dax a bit more time to post for Malan in Jade Regent. It's his turn. :)
So I've been babysitting a four-month old for the past few days. I can begin posting more often either tomorrow or Sunday.
No problem.
Looks like your week off with extra free time coincided with everyone else's week off with no free time to post. :(
Still haven't heard from Wander?
Everyone's caught up in the holidays, I suppose. Spending time with family or vacationing or something. Oh well. That's okay. It comes with the time of the year.
No word from Wander. He hasn't responded to my e-mail.
I have just received an e-mail from Wander, who apologizes for his extended absence and hopes to be back soon.
So is Makoa staying with Mahjik or traveling with the rest of the group, DB3?
I vote yes. Douena still wants to find a druid. Maybe he'd come back as a gnome. :)
EDIT: A high-enough-level druid, that is. No offense, Makoa. ;)
None taken. Chances are he'd end up coming back as a wolf anyway...
76-80 on the 2e druid reincarnation table. ;)
I honestly never understood what the point of the druid version of the spell was. You were virtually guaranteed coming back in a form in which you couldn't speak or continue playing the game. Might as well stay dead. :P
I vote yes. Douena still wants to find a druid. Maybe he'd come back as a gnome. :)
It's perfectly reasonable that you took his body, so I'll assume you did (I doubt anybody else has any objections).
As for the point of the reincarnate spell, I really haven't a clue. In 30 years of playing D&D, I don't think I've ever once seen a PC cast that spell. If they can't get access to a raise dead spell, they just create a new character. :)
I'm tempted to add in an encounter with a high-enough-level druid just so Douena can get Jask reincarnated. While a PC wouldn't be doing the actual spellcasting, it would be at the behest of a PC, which would still be a first!
And you get to roll on the reincarnate table.
I would vote for creating an expanded table, since the Core table misses out on a lot of potential new races.
I'd rather replace things like troglodyte and bugbear with some of the new PC races. Because coming back as a troglodyte and sickening the party with your Stench aura isn't appreciably better than coming back as a badger. :P
Between Jask and Douena's wayfinders and Douena's spare cash (not including the diamonds), she can come up with ~720 gp toward the casting. She'd rather have Jask back than a +1 weapon anyway.
Remember, you did find a few items on your attackers. Not a lot, but it might make for a bit more funds.
Did we? That sounds rather heartless and mercenary of us to loot the bodies while our friend lay there dead. ;)
...Then again, Pezock probably did it, which is entirely in character for him. ;D
EDIT: Yeah, I can't find a loot-y post in the game thread in a quick scan, unless I'm missing it. I don't think any of us ever said we were searching the bodies. We just walked out.
In this post, Mahjik asks Ishirou to identify the assailants. In the following post, he goes to search the bodies. However, I forgot that he only catalogued the items and didn't take most of them. He only took the wand. So...The party did get a wand (currently unidentified) out of it. :)
Urza? Want to identify a wand? :)
Identify wand- Spellcraft
Douena still has 24 red pearls + pearl necklace from cannibal chieftan she got on the Shiv, too. I have no idea what they're worth. She's just been handing them out like candy to random NPCs.
Identify wand- Spellcraft 1d20+8
It is a wand of glyph of warding with 10 charges remaining.
For Pete's sake, that thing costs 200 gp per charge in material components. The Aspis Consortium is willing to spend that kind of money to kill us? What kind of budget are they working with?!
To sell at half-price, what's left of that wand is worth 2125 gp right there. That would more than pay for a reincarnate.
Ha, it never occurred to me that glyph of warding might have a material component. So you got a pretty valuable treasure after all! :)
What day was it that we were in Kalabuto? Have we spent one night (not early morning) on the road yet? Douena prepared spells just before the night-time attack; has she prepared them on the road yet, or is this the first starrise since leaving Kalabuto?
You arrived in Kalabuto on the 22nd. The attack happened that night and you set out again when it was still dark in the very early hours of the 23rd. It's now the 25th, so Douena has had a chance to prepare spells on the road.