Once our newest addition checks in here on discussion we'll work on moving forwards.
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Welcoming congratulations to everyone's new second-favorite Kobold! Sorry dude, but Deekin will forever hold that position in my heart.
Thank you for the invite, DM.
And Deekin really was tempting, but it just didn't feel right. Particularly since I had to Google him... :P
Anyway, I took obscuring mist for its tactical value, but if there's anything else on the bard spell list anyone thinks would be better, I'd be all for it.
There are alot of spells, Obscuring mist is good but only if your team can actually utilize it. What other spells are we thinking here? Wat do you currently have?
I have grease, which is useful despite having a low save, and cure light wounds, which is really the only cure spell a bard really needs to invest in.
Also I noticed you have.. 3 feats
Two of them are bonus feats from arcane duelist. Switched to it from dragon herald so he'd be less... well, crappy.
Yeah, Deekin is kind of an older gaming reference. He was an NPC Kobold Bard from the first Neverwinter Nights PC series. He was introduced in Shadows of Undrentide and re-encountered in Hordes of the Underdark. One of my most favorite NPCs in anything ever...he was hilarious.
Im aware of Deekin. Alright That change was not mentioned which is why I was confused. In such a case it depends on what you want to do. All the Inspiration and Finale spells most likely will save your arse for example.
The only other issue Im seeing here is If the GM knows you changed and the fact that Going Arcane Duelist completely changes what your character originally applied with which might have changed who he picked is all. ( For example you have none of the abilities like Versatile Performance nor Well Versed.. your sheet would change alot too. ) Arcane Duelist puts you about what the other two were.. save one was a Skald and the other was a Magus.
Now back to Spells, Liberating Command and Lesser Confusion are a few more.
While I'm certain we're all fascinated and dazzled by your intricate knowledge of the Pathfinder crunch and how it interacts, Sugua, don't you think these are PM kind of discussions?
You're coming off really combative here when for all you know, the DM may be already aware.
The changes were for the most part discussed with (and suggested by) Tuyena via PM. I overlooked the ability replacements on my sheet though, so thanks for pointing those out... losing versatile performance hurts, but I can just redistribute a few skill points if necessary. I think the party already has a face... and a kobold might not be a good one anyway.
Liberating command looks good since it's an immediate action, but lesser confusion would only have a DC of 12.
Why would these be PM discussions its something that should be publicly known. And I note your obvious sarcasm in that statement. The usage itself is combative save it is not constructive at all. Anyone who seems to show any opinion of another that isnt rainbows and gumdrops gets this treatment. I am already used to it. But I am being nothing but fair when it comes to these things because I pay attention. I don't show favoritism. If there is something that helps the party? Good. If it may also screw the party? Equally as good.
The DM can very well be aware but it never hurts to check. If anything I have showed myself to help as much as possible when it came to things such as character changes and whatnot. I am not a passive person, I am an aggressive person.
Anyway For now that is all I can see for spells The only other I can see is Expeditious Retreat which will increase your movement if you have to run away or get somewhere quick.
Aggressive or not, putting people on the defensive to satisfy your personal curiosity is really pretty selfish and unnecessary to do in a public forum.
I think most people here are just looking to roleplay and have a good time. While there are certainly people who desire to keep track of exactly how well everything meshes together mathematically and exact party dynamics so there are literally no holes or weaknesses, most people just don't have that level of desire or time to invest.
As you are not the GM, you really should take up any concerns you have over the selections he makes and if the characters involved are "what they were when selected" with him. Privately.
It's different when someone asks for your advice, and we can all agree responding publicly when asked is usually acceptable. My comment was to identify that not everyone appreciates how you come across as if this is your game and not DM Tuyena's. No one is saying don't address your concerns. Just try to be tactful. Which can also be done aggressively. Private =/= passive, my friend.
Now in an effort not to be a hypocrite, this will be my last post on the matter. If you wish to discuss this any further or have additional discourse, feel free to PM me, Sugua.
Your accusations are wrong. Don't try to paint me as a villain nor yourself as a hero. That is my response publicly to that.
For ease of use well assume he takes 10, unless you specifically call for him in which case you may opt to roll yourself.
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Your accusations are wrong. Don't try to paint me as a villain nor yourself as a hero. That is my response publicly to that.
I support Durielle. Your attitude is really s+#~.
While I do appreciate your support, I admit that may not necessarily be a helpful way to express it at the moment.
For anyone who is concerned regarding how this conversation exited the discussion thread, Sugua and I have been having a successful dialogue via the PM system. It has been very civil and productive on both sides. I would like to see this translated even here, so I kindly ask everyone to remain positive. :-)
Allow me to say that I did apologize for "acting in kind" by being sarcastic and publicly denouncing Sugua's comments despite espousing against that very thing. I'm certain we can all continue you to play together successfully. If you will allow me to ask one indulgence, let's try not to foster bad blood if we can all enjoy ourselves playing in the campaign.
Your accusations are wrong. Don't try to paint me as a villain nor yourself as a hero. That is my response publicly to that.I support Durielle. Your attitude is really s*%@.
My attitude is whatever you yourself interpret it to be; you misconstrued my wording before and I would not be surprised if you did so this time. My stance is objective, that's it. People nowadays like to hide behind the safety of the internet for alot of things, like calling a person a name or labeling them. Because they often do it in the safety of privacy from the person rather than actually say anything to or towards said person. You are entitled to your own opinion. I often have to deal with upwards of 1000+ people a day so I see this.. alot.
Either way I am not upset and have talked to Durielle. IF you have issues you tell me.
Let's move on from this discussion, as text is a poor way to derive context.
Let me say, that after having played with and spoken to Endoralis for around two years now, that he generally wants to help people, not antagonize them.
He just has a really hard time not coming off as abrasive, and text only helps to further exacerbate the issue. We've talked about this before.
If you see him say something and is coming off as a jerk, he probably at least means well. That doesn't mean you can't confront him about the fact either but let's try to keep it in PMs as was suggested by Durielle.
And I know you're quite good at noticing discrepancies in people's sheets Endoralis, but you message me on Skype all the time anyways, if you see something askew just pass it to me first and I'll look into it.
Let's all be friends and get back to the game :)
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Ah also, to our newest kobold buddy. Sugua actually captured you a few days ago and has been dragging you around.
So you're with the party now, you can either speak to the party in draconic, of which about half of them understand, or you can say that you picked up common after listening to the party so much, in which case just be sure to put a rank into linguistics if you haven't already.
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As good an introduction as any - maybe he actually thinks they're his prisoners? :P
He already has Common because of his 12 Intelligence, which is to say he might have picked up on it the same way at some point in the past.
That being said, would kobold speaking conventions be the same if he is speaking in common? And only the first thing he says in the conversation?
Yes they keep their speech conventions.
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Your a natural! I thought you were a Kobold! *slight tear* they grow up so fast.
Also Roger Wilco GM! *salute*
This is just a pretty yuck situation, guys. Before I announce any actions, we need to unitedly decide what we're doing. I'd rather announce one set of actions rather than have to flip-flop as we "debate" the best course of action.
As it stands, it sounds like Sugua's suggestions are going to be our best chance. Even if we continue to retreat with the hopes the kobolds will rally to us. I dunno guys. :-/
Really, if everyone who had a horse had brought it, this would be a complete non-issue.
:-|
Issue there is assuming a horse was brought then it also means the horses are exposed to danger, Vlad almost lost his last time. This situation could have equally had the Trolls on us and charging killing the horses. Though I guess they MIGHT have been sated on the meat.
Non-issue as no one has a horse available at the moment.
Sounds like our best/only viable option is to use concentrated missile fire and fall back toward the Sootscales each round. Maybe if we are lucky (yeah, right...), we'll take one of the four out before they can engage in melee, though 3 normal trolls in melee is still likely to end up in a TPK.
Well, looks like we don't really have much of a choice, here.
Did that DC 10 check make us savvy to everything about trolls, or just tidbits?
I'm willing to do my best to support however I can, but I'm not optimistic about this. I know Sugua's sword catches on fire, and I guess we can be thankful his Kn check looks solid enough to have identified the troll's biology (assumption here).
Hopefully we can find a way to survive. Go team!
I feel like we've more or less decided on the actions we need to take. Someone start calling it out in character. Vlad or Sugua, I assume.
Do you want me to save my magic for healing or should I cast moment of greatness a couple times?
The 20 I rolled let me know everything but the special attacks. Someone would need to light Sugua's sword though for it to do fire damage anyone got a torch? I'm typing a longer post with things we can do.
I believe in you my noble explorers.
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Maybe they are just disgruntled troll merchants that want us to buy extra large shoes or something. Yeah. Right.
Basically the situation is like this
We can run back to the warren possibly which they can match us for pace and keep going we get maybe.. an extra round. After you hit your con bonus (Or for some to even run) you need to make a con DC 10 check to run any further and with the way the rolls have been going thats probably bad. After 1 or 2 rounds thats most people here which case they catch them. Some people die, Some people live we go back to the Kobolds and don't know what happens after that.
Now with Vlad's Horse he would be fine.. assuming he brought it again after that last meet in with sentient creatures. I assumed he did not. Alternatively he can sacrifice the Horse to maybe two of the Trolls. But that would still leave two to chase us. Or it can be used to pick up maybe another person small without getting slowed down and tired too.
The other option
Use our ranged weapons and focus fire one down then the next then the next. We have about 3 or so rounds meaning everyone with bows, ranged attacks, buffs, Magic missiles all go off. Those with Reach weapons and ranged attack continue to keep them at bay and just never let them full attack even if you take an AoO.
From Closuk, Grease will stop them charging some areas and give us another round, readying to use it when they charge for one of them would be devastating, Inspire courage will make the premptive strike have a better effect.
Durielle has Doom and it has a nice range using it on two of them would be good and the rest could be saved for healing while she fires off a Bow.
Donovan can buff with his Domain abilities as well and channel if people get hit so that they can take better positioning. He can also wade in if necesary/wants to martyr. And can take some damage if need be.
Khargol doesnt have a Longspear from the way I assume they took Suguas advice so He can shoot his bow and wade n with Shield and sword if needed. Using his judgement he can have more AC, Attack, DR or Fast Healing that will matter for this long fight.
Vladimir has a Bow as well and a longspear he can set to brace if then Trolls charge after the beginning Volley catching whichever one gets past the Grease spots. Sugua will try and do much of the same.
Gonzo and Al are a good linchpin, they stay relatively safe distance and either try and incapacitate them with Ear Piercing Scream or Add damage to stave of thier healing, once they are sufficently low Gonzo's fire will be a boon.
Thats all I really got. My character doesnt have an amazing int or wis so I cant do much more than that. Use their stupidity and recklessness otherwise. Tell me how you feel about this.
After we have any comments Sugua will start off, if need Durielle.
Durielle also has her 1/day swift Intimidate...Might help a bit if they can be coaxed into being frightened of a gaunt, pale elf.
Indeed though you take a -4 because they are bigger than you; Something is better than nothing. For Durielle She only needs to cast Moment of Greatness once. And if she didnt mind two Dooms. Then Spray and pray.
Sounds good enough to me.
If it doesn't work out, we could always just reroll as kobolds. :P
It'll work out though worse comes to worse we MIGHT lose like.. two people
I was thinking of using her Natural Divination +10 bonus on that. Hoping they blow the Will save!
So to be clear, should we stay the line for both free rounds? Or should there be any retreating at this point? Due to her Initiative handicap, Durielle has to start one round early on that.
That particular part won't matter. If you fall back and shoot for two rounds the trolls just run and end up exactly where you all are now anyways.
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Though we can go with that if you want to be one round closer to the kobold den.
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So... fall back while shooting and then stand our ground?
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It'll work out though worse comes to worse we MIGHT lose like.. two people
Losing two is the worst case scenario? And here I thought Sugua was a glass half empty kinda guy. :P
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Hehe :P. Its to account for crits or unusually high damage. Unlike other groups we DO ave healing to stave off really bad situations and singularly Trolls dont hurt with one attack much.. They aren't the Shambling Mound.
I am a pessimist though.
I was thinking of using her Natural Divination +10 bonus on that. Hoping they blow the Will save!
So to be clear, should we stay the line for both free rounds? Or should there be any retreating at this point? Due to her Initiative handicap, Durielle has to start one round early on that.
We basically fire then move and fire move and fireunless you have any need for move actions, making them run and also have lower AC then those with reach weapons do so Clousuk if you could put down a Preemptive grease and Ready another on that would be swell
Let me update my alias, finally finished the changes (just in the nick of time too).