Kingmaker

Game Master Jovich

At some point we will I am not sure we are capable of doing that right now. Are we?

Also can we get a break down of how we got to the bonus of Economy and Stability or point me in the direction of where that data is located?.

My numbers are different than the numbers we have right now. So I am lost as to how we are still at the current numbers.

I think we should be at 31 Stability.

The Sword Marches stat sheet that is linked to the top has all the bonuses and where they are generated from. Those bonuses are spelled out on the 2nd tab.

So what do we want to do?

Also, feel free to comment in RP.

Does F19 and C19 (Plant) count as a resource hex.

Resource: A Resource is a ready supply of some kind of valuable commodity that offers a great economic boon to your kingdom, such as exotic lumber, precious metal, gems, rare herbs, incense, silk, ivory, furs, salt, dyes, and the like. If you claim a hex with a Resource, Economy increases by 1. If you construct a Mine, Quarry, or Sawmill in a hex with a Resource, all of its benefits increase by 1. If you construct a Farm or Fishery in a hex with a Resource, those improvements decrease Consumption by an additional 1 BP.

Does B19 count as a forest hex or a plains hex?

B19 is a plains region.

F19 and C19 are both resource areas. In the Kingdom tab of the stat sheet in D76 you will see that you are credited for currently holding three resources (F19, F21 and D20).

My thoughts
20BP
Claim C19 (11 Hex)(Plant: Resource) 1BP
Sawmill C19 3BP
Road C19 2BP
Cost:6BP
Bonus:
+1 Economy (Hex: Resource)
+2 Stability (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)
+2 BP (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)

For the time we do kingdom building stuff:
We will be ready to claim both D18, D19 Hexes
Build a temple and roads.

We then can reduce our expansion edict a bit and concentrate on our infrastructure and military. Look into watchtowers at the lair and such.

I'm fine with this.

Anyone else?

Does this sound good?

Claim C19 (11 Hex)(Plant: Resource) 1BP
Sawmill C19 3BP
Road C19 2BP
Cost:6BP
Bonus:
+1 Economy (Hex: Resource)
+2 Stability (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)
+2 BP (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)

So I will give a day for any more feedback and then run the turn. Feel free to chime in and we will have completed the year!

I thought we had one more month. Are we not on turn 11? would we not have turn 12 which would be month 12 before the end of one year?

Sorry for going MIA again. Still a lot going on and every time I tried to get back in to it, I had gotten further and further behind. Now I'm finally caught up and ready to go!

A couple of things:
We can't really claim hexes yet. We are still, according to the kingdom sheet, on the Isolationist Expansion Edict.
With less than 11 hexes, we can only claim 1 hex per turn, and that edict gives a -1 to hexes claimed, so 0.

We can change it, but we need to go to at least standard (2 steps up). We will lose 2 stability, 1 loyalty and our consumption will increase by 1. We will gain 2 to economy though.

I also agree with Andreas, that this should be turn 11, so we should have one more before the year is completed.

I think there is a road missing in G18. It was build in turn 9 (it's in the sheet in column D, but not in column AY and not marked on the map)

Looking at the Olegstown, it seems like the formula for society in U10 has been deleted. But even adding it in don't have any effect on the score in the Overall sheet D30. Not sure why, very complicated formula!

Now to the next step. As I understand it, we want to build towards the temple of the Elk in D18? Sounds good to me.
Getting C19 and building sawmill and road there seems like a good first step.
We should think of adding a farm or two soon. Our consumption will be 3 next turn and a farm will reduce it by 2.

What about a building? or are we saving up for the town?

And what does it require to build the town there?
Do we still have to prepare it? if yes, how long would that take?
Do we have to build the shrine before building the temple or can we go straight to the temple? And we pay half price, so 16 for the temple, correct?

WB Rhavi!

I forgot you had moved to Isolationist. That does stop you from adding more regions currently. Do you want to change your edict?

There are two turns left. I got ahead of myself.

The road has been added to the map. The count was correct on the stat sheet.

I will look into the Society formula. It may take a bit though to have the time.

Building a town there is the same as anywhere else. Control the region. Expend the Preparation Cost on table 15 based on region. For a forest it costs 4 BP. The Preparation Time is how many turns it takes to actually clear and prepare the area. The forest takes 2 months to prepare for the city to be built.

The Temple of the Elk allows you to spend half the cost of building a temple. You can build a Shrine first and then that BP will decrease the BP of a temple. So in this case the Shrine costs 8 BP. A temple normally costs 32. Upgrading means that you would pay the difference between a shrine and temple. In this area the Temple only costs 16 because of the current site. So it would then cost an additional 8 BP to go from Shrine to Tempe.

Let's change the expansion edict up 1 from isolationist and continue with buildings that improve stability.

Let's change the expansion edict up 1 from isolationist and continue with buildings that improve stability.

1 up from isolationist where we are now will still not let us claim hexes. That is Cautious and it still has a -1 to the number of hexes.

We need to go 2 up to standard.

Cautio

WB Rhavi!

Thank you :-)

I forgot you had moved to Isolationist. That does stop you from adding more regions currently. Do you want to change your edict?

I say yes (especially since we also claimed one hex last turn)

The road has been added to the map. The count was correct on the stat sheet.

It is in column D, but not AY. Only 6 of the roads are registered there. It's not important now, as it only calculates the total population, but when we start making armies, it will be relevant.

I will look into the Society formula. It may take a bit though to have the time.

Exactly. I gave up :-)

Building a town there is the same as anywhere else. Control the region. Expend the Preparation Cost on table 15 based on region. For a forest it costs 4 BP. The Preparation Time is how many turns it takes to actually clear and prepare the area. The forest takes 2 months to prepare for the city to be built.

Great. Thanks for the explanation.

The Temple of the Elk allows you to spend half the cost of building a temple. You can build a Shrine first and then that BP will decrease the BP of a temple. So in this case the Shrine costs 8 BP. A temple normally costs 32. Upgrading means that you would pay the difference between a shrine and temple. In this area the Temple only costs 16 because of the current site. So it would then cost an additional 8 BP to go from Shrine to Tempe.

Thank you for that explanation too, I have been wondering about that.

Had started on (another) long post about which building to build this turn, but looking at it, I think we should save it for now, as I think we could either need it for the new town or for one of the more expensive buildings, like a Luxury Store (upgrade the shop in Olegstown)

So I think we should go with Andreas suggestion.

Claim C19 (11 Hex)(Plant: Resource) 1BP

Sawmill C19 3BP
Road C19 2BP
Cost:6BP
Bonus:
+1 Economy (Hex: Resource)
+2 Stability (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)
+2 BP (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)

Albert Malek Garess wrote:

Let's change the expansion edict up 1 from isolationist and continue with buildings that improve stability.

1 up from isolationist where we are now will still not let us claim hexes. That is Cautious and it still has a -1 to the number of hexes.

We need to go 2 up to standard.

Oops, that's what I meant.

Round 11
Claim C19 (11 Hex)(Plant: Resource) 1BP

Sawmill C19 3BP
Road C19 2BP
Cost:6BP
Bonus:
+1 Economy (Hex: Resource)
+2 Stability (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)
+2 BP (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)

I think this is a go.

Cautio

GM_Coreyllon wrote:

WB Rhavi!

It is in column D, but not AY. Only 6 of the roads are registered there. It's not important now, as it only calculates the total population, but when we start making armies, it will be relevant.

If only 6 roads are being counted does this affect the bonus, we get for having 8 roads?

Rhavaniel "Rhavi" wrote:

Cautio

GM_Coreyllon wrote:

WB Rhavi!

It is in column D, but not AY. Only 6 of the roads are registered there. It's not important now, as it only calculates the total population, but when we start making armies, it will be relevant.

If only 6 roads are being counted does this affect the bonus, we get for having 8 roads?

Effect: Economy +1 for every 4 hexes of Road, Stability +1 for every 8 hexes of Road

No, that is calculated from the number in column D. The other one is only for population. I think that only matters for armies.

Round 11

Claim C19 (11 Hex)(Plant: Resource) 1BP

Sawmill C19 3BP
Road C19 2BP
Cost:6BP
Bonus:
+1 Economy (Hex: Resource)
+2 Stability (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)
+2 BP (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)

I think this is a go.

I'm still happy with that, though it does lock us in to increasing our expansion edict, but I feel we should do that anyway

You can do anything later in the turn order that would work if something was purchased or bought earlier in the turn order. The problem is that Change Edicts is last decision.

So in Turn 11 you can change the Edict, but it comes after the ability to claim hexes. In Turn 12 you could claim 11 and in turn 13, as you laid it out above, you would reach the Temple. Claiming Hexes comes before creating a city. So in Turn 13 you could start preparing the city which would take all of Turn 13 and Turn 14. Then in Turn 15 you could build in the city.

If we have some spare BPs while waiting for the next turn, we could put up some Watchtowers.

I am thinking that once we establish our borders to include the temple area (D18, D19), we can stop expanding for the short term. We concentrate on building up our infrastructure, stability and economy. I think everyone is fine with a watchtower at E20.

You can do anything later in the turn order that would work if something was purchased or bought earlier in the turn order. The problem is that Change Edicts is last decision. 

So in Turn 11 you can change the Edict, but it comes after the ability to claim hexes. In Turn 12 you could claim 11 and in turn 13, as you laid it out above, you would reach the Temple. Claiming Hexes comes before creating a city. So in Turn 13 you could start preparing the city which would take all of Turn 13 and Turn 14. Then in Turn 15 you could build in the city.

Could we maybe be allowed to say we changed it last turn. Also since we did claim a hex in that turn too.

From your post with the end of turn 10 and beginning of turn 11:

Step 4—Collect Taxes:
Economy: 1d20 + 24 26 ⇒ (17) + 24 26 = 41 43, divided by 3 is 13 14 BP, giving you a total of 15 16 BP. +6 for your mines, foundry and quarries and +1 for the sawmills (and lumberyards) = 22 23 BP

Step 2—Pay Consumption: Your cities, armies and quarterly holiday edict costs you 2-1+1 2+1 Consumption, giving you a total cost of 2 3 and leaving your Treasury with 20 BP.

So there really isn't much changed, it is just we get 1 more BP from taxes and pay 1 additional BP in consumption, putting us at the same 20 BP as we had before.

and then we don't have to figure out what else to do this turn and can keep Andreas plan ;-)

So this is more RP and flavor than mechanics....I was talking to Rillka about this, and I think it is a good idea.

When we claim the temple and prepare it for a town. I would like to keep the hex as it is for the most part. I Would be against clearing out most of the hex for a city with a temple dedicated to Erastil. I think we could just keep it very rustic/wilderness. Build things there that benefit farmers, tradesmen, hunters. Keep it as a temple/trade post for the faithful of Erastil. I just think it would make more sense that way.

I truly thought we only back off on the expansion for one turn. I did not realize that we were not running normal.

It could still be a temple without making it into a city. The temple could just be the repaired remnants, then the rest is dedicated to farms and trade.

We can say that you changed away from Isolationist last turn. So just post for sure what you want to do.

So this is more RP and flavor than mechanics....I was talking to Rillka about this, and I think it is a good idea.

When we claim the temple and prepare it for a town. I would like to keep the hex as it is for the most part. I Would be against clearing out most of the hex for a city with a temple dedicated to Erastil. I think we could just keep it very rustic/wilderness. Build things there that benefit farmers, tradesmen, hunters. Keep it as a temple/trade post for the faithful of Erastil. I just think it would make more sense that way.

I truly thought we only back off on the expansion for one turn. I did not realize that we were not running normal.

I think that sounds like a really cool idea. Keeping it as a temple, where things just kinda springs up around it, to accommodate those who comes to worship. So of course that could be some housing and some farms and maybe a small shop, stuff like that.

We can say that you changed away from Isolationist last turn. So just post for sure what you want to do.

Perfect! Thanks :-)

This should be our plan for this round:

Round 11

Claim C19 (11 Hex)(Plant: Resource) 1BP

Sawmill C19 3BP
Road C19 2BP
Cost:6BP
Bonus:
+1 Economy (Hex: Resource)
+2 Stability (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)
+2 BP (Sawmill, Hex: Resource)

I think this is a go.

I felt like it was our way of honor that god. I sort of holy retreat for his faithful.

So we have round 11 set and ready to go then.

OK so if I am reading this correctly.
We have a ruin at D18 The Temple of the Elk. This will allow us to build a temple for 1/2 price as we are rebuilding it.
BUT first we have to build a shrine? Then rebuild the temple?
Am I following your words correctly GM?

I do not follow and it most likely is because I am not reading it correctly.
Because if there is a temple there then a shrine was built at some point already. Why would we need to build a second shrine in order to rebuild a temple for half price?

GM_Coreyllon did actually answer that up above, but it probably got buried in all of my long posts.

The Temple of the Elk allows you to spend half the cost of building a temple. You can build a Shrine first and then that BP will decrease the BP of a temple. So in this case the Shrine costs 8 BP. A temple normally costs 32. Upgrading means that you would pay the difference between a shrine and temple. In this area the Temple only costs 16 because of the current site. So it would then cost an additional 8 BP to go from Shrine to Tempe.

So we can build a shrine for 8 BP and then later a temple for an additional (32/2-8=) 8 BP or we can go straight to building the temple for 16 BP.

I would say build it as soon as the site is ready if we have the BP but that should not be an issue if we just save a couple of BPs the round before.

That part I understood but it does not make sense to me.
I am under the impression that we could just repair the current temple.

I guess it is not a big deal as no matter which way we do it...it is still going to cost the same amount of BP. It does not make sense to me that we have a temple...that was a shrine first and then turned into a temple (per the rules). It is in ruins, and we want to repair it, but we have to build another shrine first and then repair the temple? That just doesn't make sense to me. I mean it is the same cost no matter what but the time to build a new shrine and then rebuild the temple is more than just repairing the current temple. I guess it does not matter in the end.
I am just lost on the logic of it...lol

One way to think about it is that it's the remains of a complex to serve more functions than a mere shrine, but a shrine is just one part of a temple complex. The devotees would put up a small shrine while they were working on restoring the temple.

That is an interesting way of looking at it...

One way to think about it is that it's the remains of a complex to serve more functions than a mere shrine, but a shrine is just one part of a temple complex. The devotees would put up a small shrine while they were working on restoring the temple.

Almost how I see it.

Right now it is a ruin. It can serve as a place of worship for only the most devout of followers, like the people we have placed there, but won't give any mechanical benefits to the kingdom, as it is to small and we can't protect people that wants to go there (as we haven't claimed the hexes and build roads yet)

When the hexes are claimed and the roads are build, we can start thinking on making it available to the rest of our people.

If we don't have money enough to complete the whole temple in one go, we can give them enough money to restore part of it to a state where it is functional enough for others to start using it as a shrine and where it does start to give some small benefit to the kingdom.
It might be the room on the side of the temple where the priest would prepare before a sermon where there is only a few holes in the roof and a missing door. With some uncut logs for benches, it can temporarily be made in to a shrine for a small number of people.

Then later, when we can allocate the rest of the funds that is needed, the full temple can be restored to it's former glory, servicing a lot more people.

This way might take a little longer as we have been focusing on getting the small part ready and might not have done things in the most logical or practical order.

Or if we have all of the funds needed from the beginning, we go straight to the full restoration. It still cost the same, but we can save some time because we do it in the most optimal order.

(But I do see what you mean, Andreas. It is a little illogical that it costs the same but one way takes one turn, the other takes two turns.)

That part I understood but it does not make sense to me.

So I wrote this and then read everyone else's post, so it says much the same thing. :P Turn below shortly.

If I understand correctly, you are thinking of building an entirely new building for a shrine. But that is not necessarily what is happening. You have an old structure that was once a temple and currently has a few residents who have sort of created a habitable area, but lack the resources to refurbish the structure.

With that in mind, building the shrine would be like fixing the main worship area to a point that more people could come and use it safely and comfortably. Finishing the temple adds all the other rooms, living areas, etc. that a full temple would need to care for the local community. It would provide the benefits of a shrine until you opted to finish the whole building, at which point it would provide the mechanical benefits of a true temple.

In RP terms though, its not necessarily a different building. It would mean that you just focus on the heart of the temple so that it was safe for at least some people to pay homage to Erastil until you can funnel the rest of the funds into the whole temple. Or just fix it all at once. Regardless, it would take up the same area on the map and effectively be the same structure.

Ok, now we are on the last turn and you guys have quite a bit of BP. What do you do!

@Gm_Coreyllon, Rhavi
From a RP point that does make sense. I was just looking at it from a mechanical point of view.

Claim D19 (12 Hex)(Bridge) 1BP
Claim D18 (13 Hex)(Ruins:Temple) 1BP

Road D19 2BP
Road D18 2BP
Economy +1
Watchtower E20 12BP
Stability +1
Defense +2,+1(Lair)
Unrest decreases by 1 when completed.

Shrine (Build/Repair) Lawful:
Economy +1, Unrest -1 8BP

Cost:26BP
Balance: 5BP
Bonus:
+1 Economy (4 roads)
+1 Stability (Watchtower)
+2 Defense (Watchtower)
+1 Defense (Hex:Lair)
+1 Economy (Shrine)
-1 Unrest (Shrine)
Unrest decreases by 1 when completed (Watchtower)

Thoughts?

I totally understood where you were coming from. Merging the mechanics and story is not always seamless.

Part of why the map for cities is important is that buildings don't move. So if you want to do the Upgrade options you have to plan for it or you run into the problem where you can't expand the temple to a cathedral because someone foolishly built a tannery next to the church.

Figuring out where to build and what you want to do, like keeping the Temple area as pristine as possible for Erastil, is a huge part of this campaign and the flavor that you can give it.

Unfortunately, if you want the Shrine where the Temple of the Elk is you have to prepare the area and that takes 2 turns. So it would be three turns out before you could do that. You can start preparing it this turn when you claim the hex though.

Speaking of building placement, an interesting question will be do you want the temple in the center of the prepared area so one day you have a giant cathedral (potentially) to Erastil in the center of everything. Or would you rather it to one side of the city so that it looks out onto the forest instead of houses, shops, etc.

You could build something like a Shrine of Abadar in the Capital though. Or some other deity that speaks to your group, maybe another one to Erastil for Jackob to be close to, if you want to invest in some religion.

I'm in favor of Andreas's building plan for turn 10. I do think we should have at least one shrine in the capitol, as well.

IF we are not able to start a shrine at D18 then maybe we build one in the capital?
Iomedae
Sarenrae
Desna
Abadar

These are some I was thinking of, thoughts?

We are at 11 hexes! That is a milestone. We are officially a Barony now and Andreas is Baron Andreas and should be addressed "Your Lordship":-)
(see page 37, table 4 of the rules)

I think Andreas plan sounds good, but I have a few suggestions.

I think it was stated earlier that the bridges won't have any in-game effect, so I think we would still need to pay double for the road in that hex.

And we should start preparing D18 for the city, which would cost 4 BP extra, if I understand it correctly.

That is one more BP then we have.

Instead of the watchtower, we could build a farm around Olegstown. There is only 1 right now and it would only cost 2 BP and decrease our consumption by 2 (without the new farm, next round the consumption will be at least 6 because of the 2 new hexes.)

Strike that, I just noticed that technically, we are not allowed to build farms in Olegstown as it says that

A Farm must be within or adjacent to a hex containing a river, lake, swamp, or Canal, or adjacent to at least 2 hexes that already contain Farms.

Instead, to correct this, we could build a canal in C19 and in the next round in B20 and D18. Then the towns will also be connected through a waterway, making trade easier.

I think the shrine in the capital is a good idea. Rhavi doesn't have an opinion on which god(dess) it should be dedicated to, as she worship Magdh, one of the Eldest, a fey goddess.
Not many worship her, so she would be surprised, but pleased, if we dedicated it to her. When that is said, Magdh is lawful neutral, so could give a bonus to either economy or stability (and both, if we upgrade that to a temple later)

Does Andreas worship anyone specific? Because then that could be a reason to chose one.

My suggestion (based on Andreas):
Claim D19 (12 Hex)(Bridge) 1BP
Claim D18 (13 Hex)(Ruins:Temple) 1BP

Road D19 4BP
Road D18 2BP
Economy +1

Canal C19 4BP

Prepare D18 for city 4BP

Shrine (Capital) Lawful or Neutral:
Economy or stability +1, Unrest -1 8BP

My understanding is that since there is a bridge in D19 we do not have to pay double.
Bridge: The hex contains an existing Bridge over a waterway. If you build a Road in this hex, you do not have to double the cost of the Road.

If this is true, then we would have a balance of 5 BP which we could spend 4 on preparing D18 leaving us 1 BP remaining.

I find the idea of a canal intersecting. I am reading up on it.

Andreas does not have an official god but Imodae is the closest thing for him.

Albert worships Pharasma, and his preference is a shrine dedicated to her, Abadar, or Erastil. Someone who promotes order to the common people.

I am busy with family stuff today. I will check on the bridge tomorrow.

Rillka has always professed faith in Gozreh; which actually fits (farmers and woodsmen) and would tie in to Erastil.

She would prefer not Abadar, purely based on stringent adherence to law above all; but certainly, isn't going to stop anyone from worshipping..

So we have a vote for Gozreh, Pharasma and a so-so vote for Iomedae. And one no on Abadar. Anyone want to break some ties here?

Rhavi is also a follower of Magdh, a fey goddess and mentioned that diety. That said Rillka hates fey, and probably would not support this option, but out of respect for Rhavi would offer no opposition.

BUT...

May I offer new proposal - Rillka would support a Pharasma shrine once a graveyard is unfortunately needed. If the council were to wait until that time for the shrine at the city, she would support that option.