Kingmaker

Game Master Jovich

All of the discounted builds were listed earlier. There are several places with mines, but assume they have ran dry and you have to start fresh.

But do they still count as a resource as in the rules?

Resource: A Resource is a ready supply of some kind of valuable commodity that offers a great economic boon to your kingdom, such as exotic lumber, precious metal, gems, rare herbs, incense, silk, ivory, furs, salt, dyes, and the like. If you claim a hex with a Resource, Economy increases by 1. If you construct a Mine, Quarry, or Sawmill in a hex with a Resource, all of its benefits increase by 1. If you construct a Farm or Fishery in a hex with a Resource, those improvements decrease Consumption by an additional 1 BP.

@Rhavi, Yes, there are two places like that you currently know of. The two places are D21 (Gold) and F21 (Sootscale Cavern) currently.

They do increase your Economy by 1 for claiming them and increase the production of Mines, Quarry's or Sawmills in the hex by 1. But it doesn't provide the benefit of having a Mine, Quarry or Sawmill unless you build them.

Perfect. I will post in a couple of hours or three with my suggestions

Is the house and inn placed where we wanted them? I at least suggested C5 for the house and B5 or B6 for the Inn. Did anyone else suggest something else?

EDICT PHASE 1/3

Step 1— Change Leadership Assignments?
No

Step 2—Claim and Abandon Hexes?
F21 and E19 (2 BP)
(E19 is the fourth river tile so should give +1 Economy)

Step 3—Build Terrain Improvements?
Mine F21 (6 BP)
For the second, I would like something to increase stability. The DC is 24 and we only have +13, so it is less than 50% to not get unrest.
The road would also cost 6 BP as it is hills and there is a river in both G19 and F20 (@Andreas, I assume you meant F20 as we haven’t claimed G20 yet)
For now, the travel time would also be less on the water, so I think that would be fine for now.
Was about to suggest the Watchtower Andreas suggested last round, but as it is fairly expensive, we would only have 4 BP left. But it does reduce unrest by 1 and increase stability by 1….
Maybe we should only build the mine. Or maybe another farm (4 BP). We have enough consumption to get use out of it.

Step 4—Create and Improve Cities?
If we only have 6 BP left, I would suggest a Park or a Bath. Baths gives both economy and stability. A Park would reduce unrest with 1. Unrest is 3 and would reduce all Economy, Loyalty, and Stability checks.
With that in mind, I would suggest a Park. Maybe in A5, if the inn is moved.

If we build a farm instead, we are at 14 BP left. If we don't build anything beside the mine, we are at 18.
I both cases, I think we could consider a jail. Since there are a lot of bandits around still, it could be useful. And in terms of game mechanics, it would reduce unrest with 2 and increase stability (and loyalty) with 2. That's a good deal and something we could use now.

Step 5—Create Army Units?
No

Step 6—Issue Edicts?
No

EDICT PHASE 2/3

Step 1— Change Leadership Assignments?
No

Step 2—Claim and Abandon Hexes?
D20 and C20 (2 BP)

Step 3—Build Terrain Improvements?
Mine D20 (6 BP)
Road D20 (@GM, is this also hills? It is a little hard to see and the hexes on the small and big map isn’t the same) (3 BP?)

Step 4—Create and Improve Cities?
No idea how much we would have left here, so really hard to come with suggestions. And I think the hexes and improvements next turn is more important. I have listed for 6 BP already there. If we have less then that left, I would not build anything.
With that said, my preference is like this:
I would like a pier (16 BP), to help with trade. But that is probably out of reach.
If there is still unrest, a Park would be good, if we didn't build it last turn.
A Stockyard (20 BP) would also be interesting. It's 2 or 3 extra consumption removed. Could be too much, not sure. Would like a granary before we get to negative consumption.
So a Granary (12 BP) could also be useful, if we have negative consumption.
As the Magister, I would also suggest a Library (6 BP) because learning
or a Shop (8 BP), because it can end up being a magic shop
or an Alchemist (18 BP), because I like alchemy ;-)

Step 5—Create Army Units?
No

Step 6—Issue Edicts?
No

EDICT PHASE 3/3

Step 1— Change Leadership Assignments?
No

Step 2—Claim and Abandon Hexes?
B20 and G18 (2 BP)

Step 3—Build Terrain Improvements?
Road C20 (1 BP)
Sawmill G18 (3 BP)

Step 4—Create and Improve Cities?
See turn 2/3 but we should consider if we want to make Oleg's in to a town. We can do it for free, as we can get a free watchtower. Not sure if that is a good thing to do or not, but since it is free....

Step 5—Create Army Units?
No

Step 6—Issue Edicts?
No

I second the Park and Bath. Unrest is not something we want to see this early. Less sure about the Jail. It might be the correct mechanical choice but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A House is cheaper, possibly even free. If we can manage 2 they will have the same effect on unrest for a bit over half the coast of a Jail.

Focusing on Farms seems a good idea to support growth. The Granary is a good medium term goal.

Having Oleg's as a settlement seems like a good idea. I don't think we will be overextending ourselves to start Olegstown early.

Has anyone else noticed that the Everflowing spring does nothing?

EVERFLOWING SPRING 5 BP
Limit Settlement must have a building that can create medium magic items
Special Can share lot with Castle, Cathedral, Market, Monument, Park, or Town Hall
A fountain built around several decanters of endless water that provides an inexhaustible supply of fresh water.

Danm, totally missed that the house gives -1 unrest!
Then that is a very good option. Especially because we can built two of them in a round.

In the first turn, I think we should do the mine and a farm. With the 2 BP from claiming hexes, that would be 12 BP used, leaving 14 out of the 26 we started with. Using 6 on two houses would leave us with 8 going in to the next round.

Has anyone else noticed that the Everflowing spring does nothing?

EVERFLOWING SPRING 5 BP
Limit Settlement must have a building that can create medium magic items
Special Can share lot with Castle, Cathedral, Market, Monument, Park, or Town Hall
A fountain built around several decanters of endless water that provides an inexhaustible supply of fresh water.

Well, it does not give BP or a bonus to something but from a RPing aspect it gives one hell of a bonus...that being fresh water at all times. During draughts or siege you have water. A huge bonus.

Houses would be a big help to reduce unrest. That would be a good thing.

Jackob Mulle wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that the Everflowing spring does nothing?

EVERFLOWING SPRING 5 BP
Limit Settlement must have a building that can create medium magic items
Special Can share lot with Castle, Cathedral, Market, Monument, Park, or Town Hall
A fountain built around several decanters of endless water that provides an inexhaustible supply of fresh water.

Well, it does not give BP or a bonus to something but from a RPing aspect it gives one hell of a bonus...that being fresh water at all times. During draughts or siege you have water. A huge bonus.....

My thoughts as well. Cistern gives a bonus. Maybe apply the same to the fountain?

Has anyone else noticed that the Everflowing spring does nothing?

EVERFLOWING SPRING 5 BP
Limit Settlement must have a building that can create medium magic items
Special Can share lot with Castle, Cathedral, Market, Monument, Park, or Town Hall
A fountain built around several decanters of endless water that provides an inexhaustible supply of fresh water.

It gives you endless fresh water. If you have no fresh water, that is a giant boon.

Sir Andreas Eisfalke Von Ulm wrote:

Jackob Mulle wrote:

Has anyone else noticed that the Everflowing spring does nothing?

EVERFLOWING SPRING 5 BP
Limit Settlement must have a building that can create medium magic items
Special Can share lot with Castle, Cathedral, Market, Monument, Park, or Town Hall
A fountain built around several decanters of endless water that provides an inexhaustible supply of fresh water.

Well, it does not give BP or a bonus to something but from a RPing aspect it gives one hell of a bonus...that being fresh water at all times. During draughts or siege you have water. A huge bonus.....

My thoughts as well. Cistern gives a bonus. Maybe apply the same to the fountain?

The advantage over the cistern, is that there are no limits on where to put it, you can get it without using a lot and it cost 1 BP less.

@GM
Now the stable and the barracks are in A3+4.
If we want to do the castle, will they go away?
And where could we place the castle? does it have to be there?

So far it appears that Rhavi, Jacob and I are for claiming hexes...
Continue up the Thorn River (E19) towards Thorn River Camp, both mines (F21,D20) around the forest and up to Olegs (C20,B20) and the Forest/Skunk River (G18) next to the fort.

Rhavi came up with the idea of.
Mine (f21)
farm?
Park, Bath, Jail

Mine (D20)
Road
Pier, Stockyard, Park, Granary, Library, Shop

Sawmill
Road
Turn Olegs into a town?

I was thinking
Mine (F21)
Road G19 or F20)
A wind mill for the farms.

Mine (D20)
Road F20 or F21
Granary

Sawmill G18
Road F21 or E19
Lumberyard

I am thinking since houses remove unrest by 1 we could also build them during Step 4—Create and Improve Cities.

The Fort which will eventually take up four slots, should we place it in the middle of the grid to have the city grow up around it or...
do we place it in the top left corner (A1,2 B1,2) and place the city in between it and the river?

Do we need to build roads in the first hex (G19) or are they there already?

I agree with Rhavi that the Watchtower is going to be expensive and maybe we should hold off for now.

I think that Jacob had the right idea when it comes to the jail. Maybe at a later date.

Jacob, Rillka, Caerwyn...your thoughts on buildings???

I think the fort (ultimately castle?) should be in the top left. At the very least we do not want the fort taking up the waterfront and pinching things like the lighthouse/pier/waterfront/mill/baths.

Jackob prefers a Park that can ultimately foster a Sacred Grove the bonus vs Fey events might be useful in this area. But this is more long term. Practically I think a Park/Bath along with whatever housing we can fit in to mitigate the unrest is the best way to go.

Do we need a Granary yet? Are we hitting negative consumption? if we are should we increase consumption by snagging more land? I suppose it is an Ant vs. Grasshopper problem.

I suppose we should start thinking about what kind of city/nation we want.
High pop/strong military agrarian and land focused? Smaller pop/smaller military trade lake/river/road focused?

Looking at he map. If we can get a settlement on Lake Hooktongue with a good road or maybe a canal back to the capital we will be in strong position.

I suppose right now the Narlmarches and the Tors of Levenies (assuming the AP allows us to expand in that direction) are our natural borders but the Hooktongue is much more secure.

Again looking at the map. Oleg's needs to be a settlement pretty soon. We are short on good farmland. Plenty of hills, good wine country, but short on grasslands. Olegsville would be in a position to nab the bit of the Rostland planes between it and the Shrike river. Looking at the geography of Pitaxe and Minvon we will need the food.

I would like to change my vote on the first turns buildings to two houses. Our unrest is 3, so that will reduce it to 1.

I think the road would be to expensive when we have the river. I would rather have the farm, as that will reduce consumption. Every point of consumption removed is another BP we can spend next turn.

I don't think the wind mill or the mill does anything mechanically for the farms. Of course, RP is natural. We need somewhere to make flour.

I also think the Park or Bath is better than the Granary. Don't think we have surplus of food yet. But we should get the granary soon.

It would be good if we get the lumber yard before the sawmill to get the discount.

Thinking a little more on it, I think we should make Oleg's in to a settlement as soon as we can

I think step 4 is the only time we can build houses….

Good questions about the roads in the hexes with settlements and the placement of the castle :-)
GM?
(if we can choose ourself, I agree with Jackob and Andreas, top left is best placement.)

I think high pop and a lot of land :-)

Is it possible to change the type of a hex? Make 1 or 2 of the swamp hexes around lake Hooktongue to something we can use for a town. Placing the town on the other side would make it very isolated from the rest of our kingdom. But there is a long time till we get to that.

@GM

Now the stable and the barracks are in A3+4.
If we want to do the castle, will they go away?
And where could we place the castle? does it have to be there?

The castle would be an upgrade on those buildings. It would take up that 4 lot area and you would have the bonuses of the castle and lose the bonuses of the stable and barracks.

I think we should be concentrating on the region that we know for now. Building off of what we have explored.

How does this sound....

26BP
Round 1 Step 3
Build a Mine at F21 6BP

Round 1 Step 4
Build a Park 4 PB
Build a House 3 PB

Round 2 Step 3
Build a Mine at D20 6BP

Round 2 Step 4
Build Lumber Yard 12 BP
Build a House 3 PB

Round 3 Step 3
Build a Sawmill at G18 2BP
Build a Sawmill at G18 2BP
Round 3 Step 4
City Wall 2BP

For a total of
-16 BP Spent
+2 Loyalty
-5 Unrest
+3 Economy
+5 BP/Turn
+3 Stability
+1 Productivity

In general, support expansion: Continue up the Thorn River (E19) towards Thorn River Camp, both mines (F21,D20) around the forest and up to Olegs (C20,B20) and the Forest/Skunk River (G18) next to the fort - but we also need to claim F19 sooner than later.

I am all for building farms and houses
I think we should wait and develop 1 mine at a time
I am ok with lumberyards and granaries.
I don't think we need a city wall. (if there is no army to man it, lets focus on making a good home for the people who come here.

No leadership changes, armies or edicts.

For a total of
-16 BP Spent
+2 Loyalty
-5 Unrest
+3 Economy
+5 BP/Turn
+3 Stability
+1 Productivity

I made a copy of the kingdom sheet and are using that to make a few calculations.

With those buildings, we would get:

Economy +8
Loyalty +1
Stability +3
Productivity +1
Defense +1
+6 BP/turn
-5 unrest

I think we can defend putting up the city wall. Just look at Oleg's, they have one around their trading post and they are not even a town.
But I think we should do it asap, not in the last turn.

I also must bring up those farms again. It is only 4 BP a piece, but it removes 2 consumption, so we have break-even after just 2 turns.
Right now our consumption is 1d4+1, so at least 2, but we have claimed 2 hexes which brings it to 4 BP. 2 additional farms can remove that.

I also tried to calculate how it would look with BP over the turns. Almost impossible, unless you fill out the actual sheet for each turn, but I think it is unlikely that we will have enough for the lumberyard.

Taking the BP situation in to account, this is my suggestion:

Round 1 Step 3
Build a Farm at G19 4BP
Build a Mine at F21 6BP

Round 1 Step 4
City Wall 2BP (connect the fort to the river)
Build a House 3PB

Round 2 Step 3
Build a Mine at D20 6BP
Build a Farm at G19 4BP

Round 2 Step 4
(with average rolls, I think we would only have 2-4BP to use here)

Round 3 Step 3
Build a Sawmill at G18 3BP
Build a Sawmill at G18 3BP

Round 3 Step 4
(with average rolls, I think we would only have 2-4BP to use here, depending if we build in town last turn)

Price for this is 37BP

Economy +6
Loyalty 0
Stability +2
Productivity 0
Defense +1
+10 BP/turn (+6 BP/turn + -4 consumption)
-3 unrest

After those turns, I think we need to consider changing the expansion edict to standard. That will also help with the consumption.

I like the discussion. I would like to get 3 people at least to agree on each months purchase, but I do want to point out that Mines and Sawmills do not have an asterisks in the document. This means you cannot build the 2 sawmills in G18, etc.

Did we lose Cearwyn?
Been some time since I have seen a post?

Its been a while. He put in a post about the city name, but seems uninterested in the nation building, which is ok.

I like Rhavi's months 1 and 2 (given that 3 is not allowed...
I propose 1 sawmill in G18 and a house, we can add sawmills to the other forest regions as we go.

Would it be helpful/possible to mark the hexes claimed, a dot in the top of the hex or something as we go - that way we know what is claimed?

I will be fixing the map as we go. I did not do it for the first month, but I will fix the borders and show the builds once the three month mark is hit so everyone knows what has been built.

I like the discussion.

I love it, if anyone was doubting that ;-)

I do want to point out that Mines and Sawmills do not have an asterisks in the document. This means you cannot build the 2 sawmills in G18, etc.

Crap, missed that.

I propose 1 sawmill in G18 and a house, we can add sawmills to the other forest regions as we go.

Why a house? As I read it, it only gives unrest -1. There is also population in the sheet, but not quite sure what that does? something about our potential army?

I am fine with 1 sawmill and a maybe a park or even a house?...or even nothing else.

We seem to have some consensus on Rhavi's first two months. Do we want to do that and then you can see where we are? Three months might be too much for a single decision.

I am ok with that.

Concur with a park or house and doing 2 months to see how things are financially/stability wise.

@Rhavi - was just defaulting to house, am open to a park or something else.

Agree with the first two months but could we pause at step 4 in the second month to see how much BP we have at that time? Just so we have a chance to build something if we have enough BPs.

I put your house in C4 on the grid. Please let me know where you want buildings to go. We are learning as we go so for turns 2/3 if you want to move them to somewhere else you can tell me and I will do it. But moving forward I need to know where you want them or I will place them where I think they would go and it will be a final placement as buildings generally are not all that easy to move. :D

I will try and get the map updated tonight. I stopped at what building you want to add or fix in the case of the barracks.

Did we pick a name for the city? Stagfell is a placeholder.

Both the house and the city wall reduced the unrest. It should be 0 at the beginning of turn 3. We would still have failed the check, but at least it is only 2.

We need to get some more stability!!

...

We need to get some more stability!!

I agree, that DC 25 is a killer.

There are a number if cheap-ish buildings that add stability. I am looking at Baths, Brewery, and Orphanage but there are plenty of others. Sawmill's even help. I remember we were looking at the Lumberyard/Sawmill combo earlier.

First priority has to be repairing the Barracks we need that -1 Unrest modifier back.

Rhavaniel "Rhavi" wrote:

...

We need to get some more stability!!

I agree, that DC 25 is a killer.

There are a number if cheap-ish buildings that add stability. I am looking at Baths, Brewery, and Orphanage but there are plenty of others. Sawmill's even help. I remember we were looking at the Lumberyard/Sawmill combo earlier.

First priority has to be repairing the Barracks we need that -1 Unrest modifier back.

And the DC goes up with each new hex. That is also why I think we should slow down the expansion after next turn.

Unrest is a one time thing score. It applies when then stability check is made, when an event occur or when a building is completed. So not sure that the -1 from the barracks would apply when we repair it. We could argue that we never got that benefit in the first place, so it could be applied now, but that would be a GM call.

And it was a 4th farm in G19 we wanted to build in turn 3, not a road.

@GM
Does it take up our one building to repair the barracks?
And is it -1 society or stability? There is marked a -1 stability in the kingdom sheet that I think is for the barracks, but you post said -1 society.

It was supposed to be Society instead of Stability. This has been corrected.

It would take a build slot to fix it.

Unrest does drop with each successful Stability Roll at the beginning of the turn. So that Unrest can quickly evaporate if you get a few successful rolls in.

@GM
If we repair the barracks, do we get to remove 1 unrest?

You would lose the penalty to Society and gain the -1 Unrest that comes from a Barracks, but not the unrest reduction that is mentioned on building a Fort as it no longer counts as a Fort being built.

Then I suggest repairing the barracks. That is clearly the best deal we can make right now, as the unrest is substracted from the stability score.

Are you guys still happy with the tax rate? The divisor of 4 does produce a lot less BP then a divisor of 3.

Sir Andreas is also helping Economy. Do you want to change this to Stability?

Are you guys still happy with the tax rate? The divisor of 4 does produce a lot less BP then a divisor of 3.

Sir Andreas is also helping Economy. Do you want to change this to Stability?

Those are some really good ideas. Our Economy roll would be less with Andreas not helping there, but right now I think stability is more important, and changing the tax rate would compensate.

I think we should do both this turn and then change the expansion after next turn when we have claimed Oleg's and the forest.

I am good with the proposal by Rhavi - she is the Magister.

Let us switch it up then. Economy means nothing if we have riots in the street by month 4.

Repairing the Barracks costs 3 BP. Do you want to bank the other 7 or use it for something?

It's 6 BP we have left. We built a farm, not a road. The farm costs 1 BP more than the road, so, we have only 6 BP left.

I say bank it for now.

The only thing I think we can do is build the free house which we can't afford, so it would have to be a tennant and I don't see any reason to build that.

Can we get a second on banking the BP?

Yes

Agree! Motion carries