I'm interested in playing, I would love to see a kingmaker game through having started a couple both pbp and irl and having them fizzle. If rebooting is a good way to make that happen, I am cool with that. If there is a way to add a couple of players, that will probably help and if there are things that the group can do to shoulder the burden of prep I think we could hammer that out too.
I'm all for making it work, that said, I know what it is like to have hard times at work, hard times at home and bad health stuff. In fact I cancelled a game I had started twice so as not to overburden myself so I am sympathetic to the need to reduce commitments.
Anyway I am up for whatever, I just wanted to broach the subject so we could discuss.
I have the die-hard feat when it comes to games. I'm here and will be here until the cows come home to hear the fat lady sing. Confirming who is willing to stay then rounding out the party would be good.
I say we start at the next major event after Oleg's, but a total reboot would be ok. I just prefer not to re-hash things.
True a "previously on Kingmaker" style intro and a Scooby Doo dream wiggle to the next story beat with a couple of new additions would accomplish that "fresh" feeling without having to redo anything.
When this all started, I told Angel I'd be backup GM if he needed me. The offer still stands. If the party is agreeable, I could run combat, freeing Angel to run the overall story. I have the books so I already have the means. It sounds like combat is the main culprit in the slowdown to me, so that may quicken the pace.
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Here is my plan at this point, so everyone knows where I am at.
Today is Wednesday, and its the boss's wife's birthday today. Think we are doing something this afternoon, and then have 5e adventure league when I get off this afternoon.
Thursday night I have one of my two live 5e games, and the other one is Saturday. That leaves me with Friday night and Sunday not having anything going that I know of.
I am going to sit down Friday night when I get home from the office and catch myself up on some things. I am going to go through and read and also do a fair bit of pondering. Some time on Sunday afternoon (or Monday for you aussies :P) I will give you guys a run down of my thoughts, and what I propose as to how to move forward.
I would ask all of you to do one thing for me. In a PM, I would like each of you to send me some feedback on the game as a whole. What you like, what you don't like, things that you feel might be missing, things you would like to see added. No holds barred, anything and everything is fair game. This game is for all of us to have fun, and my hope and effort here is to try and make it fun for all involved, because right now I don't feel like it is much fun for anybody.
Last thing, knowing the nature of the later forms of Kingmaker, I think that adding another person or two on to the roster would not hurt us by any means. Please let me know what you guys feel comfortable with as far as group size. If we go to add people, I want to make sure it enhances the group as a whole.
I'm glad this isn't going to fizzle. I prefer the world to end with a bang, not a whimper.
I'll PM you tomorrow, most likely. It's now midnight and I just got home from PFS; I'm bushed.
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So I have done some thinking and reading over the weekend. I had not realized how little had actually been acomplished, nor did I realize that the game had started nearly eight months ago.
First of all I wanted to apologize to you guys, that's a crappy job on my part.
Some ideas as to how to go forward:
1) We can proceed forward from where we are, I will most likely take a couple of days to plot out and generate some things ahead of time to try and keep the game moving at a reasonable pace, so that all I need to do is look at notes and my rolls. If we decide to go this route, I think that I would like to add one or two players to the game to fill out the balance of the group.
2) If you guys want to, I can cut out some of the base exploring, and we can do just the hunting down the bandits and dealing with them. I will accelerate the game somewhat to get the ball rolling, and get us moved forward to a more acceptable point in the game compared to where we are now. Probably not the best idea, but I do realize that we have dragged a great deal more than I realized.
3) Reset from square one, after the bandit fight. We will assume the same outcome of the fight, minus the messy botched interrogation and execution afterwards, and we can start over with the exploring from square one, and I will again take the time to plot out and roll for things way ahead of time to keep the game going. Again here I think I would like to add a player or two.
3b) I suppose also we could advance the timeline forward if you guys want, but I figure with background things for each character, the first chapter would be a good one to start getting those going for each character.
What do you guys think? This is as much your game as it is mine. I suppose what I need to know is where you guys want to proceed from.
1) Fine by me.
2) Base exploration can be tedious in PbP format because what usually takes meatspace groups two minutes to hash out takes us a day. At best. I would definitely cut out some of that and skip a lot of the meaningless random encounters. Combat is a huge time consumer, so I would save it for when it matters. Even if you have to narrate us through it, I'd be happy.
3) I'm ok with this one too. Really, we have done nothing of note since we left Oleg's
3b) Nah. We'll need time to work the new blood in, so I'm hesitant to skip forward.
I'm kinda neutral on this one, honestly. That probably has to do with the lack of plot advancement. I've cut a lot out of my Skull and Shackles game too for that same reason. PbP momentum is a fragile thing, and unless we have characters who dedicate themselves to moving things forward (not Cuddles) it may fall a bit flat at times.
IMHO, if we are floundering, give us a bit of the railroad. Say we go here and find X, because not having something to post about is great motivation to not post.
I second. Lets just trundle forward, rope the newbies in and make the train move. My experience is that the first phase of Kingmaker is too slow, even at the table. The groups I have been in tended to invest more after the denouement of chapter 1 when the investment increases so lets hurry up and get there.
I also agree that at no point should we trust Cuddles to "move things" forward. Scary!
I mean use railroads to keep us moving. If we are running after something and engaged, then no rails are needed. If we're all standing there looking at each other, move on to the next plot point.
I once played in a game where we split the party. My druid flew off to investigate something while the rest of the party trundled on the ground. A random encounter generated 7 trolls.
Two hours later, the combat was over. I'd spent my time looking up the finer rules of charging with a lance and Ride-By Attack. It wasn't very interesting.
But it did teach me something: random encounters need to have a purpose. Verisimilitude is well and good, but if that verisimilitude leads to bogging the game down and disengagement from players, it's not serving a positive purpose.
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My point is, if a lot of Kingmaker involves exploring (and random encounters while exploring), that's going to be tough to administer in a PbP. Much easier would be a system where we agreed an expedition to explore specific hexes, then you made all the necessary Perception, Survival, or whatever rolls for us as we went. Then we can pause at the interesting bits and fast-forward through the "you tramp through the damp meadows for eight hours and see nothing interesting; what's your camp watch order?" parts.
So for example, if we're following a trail then you can make a series of rolls for us and we get back in control of our PCs when the trail runs cold or we find something interesting. If we're just exploring, then we plot the hexes we want to explore, the order in which we explore them, we pay a certain amount of gold to purchase intangible 'supplies' for the mission (a certain amount of gp per hex would make sense, perhaps differentiated by predominant terrain type), and then you make rolls for us as before. And just say it takes a flat day to explore each hex, or half a day to traverse one without exploring, and leave it at that.
Or, adapt the exploration edicts rules from Ultimate Campaign. We don't have a treasury with BP yet, but I'm sure we could do something similar with a little thought.
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Now, to actually answer your questions...
I'd prefer #1 or #3, as Cuddles does. Although it seems like we're destined to kill everyone we ever attempt to capture and interrogate at the moment!
Whether we get new players on board or not, I don't mind.
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As for what path we're trying to explore, I think this post sets out the most recent plan we had about where we wanted to go after the bandit trail ran cold, before we ran into the four kobolds.
From my perspective, Angel, if we all agree on exploring this pathway I would just let you make all the rolls required and tell us what (if anything) we find.
So being railroaded through explorations is perfectly fine (even expected) by me. Just let us make decisions about things that matter. : )
--Mike
Seconding the others. I'm also happy to be railroaded if we're standing around blankly or some such.
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Hmm..., alright then.
I suppose that I have one last question involved here, and that is the subject of adding new blood.
First of all, what would you guys want to round out the group? Is there anything missing from the group that you would like to see added in?
I am thinking that one new character if it is the right one would round out the group fairly well, after all you guys are quite the A team as is. :P
I suppose the other question I have, and I know that I have put this question to a couple of you privately, but I would ask the group this. I have been working on method acting, character writing and really getting into deeper role playing of characters lately in my live table games. Would you guys have a problem with me writing and playing a secondary PC character that would fill out the group? I can think of a couple character types that I would be quite interested in trying out, and one character type in particular that I played in another KM that died out that I was rather enjoying.
Once we get the issue of group size done, I think tonight I have free, so I will plan on being home and doing some catch up. At this point, I think we can move forward, I don't see a reason to backtrack us unless any of you feels the need to reset anything in the game.
I am going to see about getting some decent maps tonight, and also making sure I have on hand what things we have accomplished and not, and by this time tomorrow, I hope to have us back on track.
If you guys have any suggestions or ideas, please feel free to voice them. This is our game after all, I'm just the guy behind the screen.
So far we have:
- Cuddles: big damage and anti-caster grappler.
- Harsk: medium damage, some healing, lots of armour.
- Katya: small damage and some battlefield control with combat maneuvers.
- Anton: spellslinger; with Int 19 should have decent DCs for spells vs. enemies.
We lack a face character, and we lack a few key skills.
This post still applies, I think. : )
note that Cuddles is also kinda squishy in spite of how I RP him, so he is more of a glass cannon than in willing to admit.
I agree we might need skills/face, I'm fine with a dmpc. I'm having some tech and work issues, will be show to respond through to Friday, sorry.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Anton is the second full arcane caster I've ever played - the first was a fire-spraying gnome sorceress. He's my attempt at a control wizard; eventually, he'll be slinging around wall of stone, transmute earth to mud, et cetera, with a few solid party buffs - I'm sure Harsk, Katya, and Cuddles will appreciate, say, mass bull's strength. However, for now, he's just a squishy, sickly fellow who can embiggen Cuddles from time to time and knock people out with pretty colours.
Mike already summed up what we could use quite nicely in the post he linked, and I wouldn't object to a well-played GMPC. Well-played is the keyword; I've heard plenty of horror stories.
Yeah, I think in terms of the GMPC, we need to make sure that they are there primarily to advance the plot--to act as the GM's mouthpiece, rather than outshine the PCs or act as a Mary Sue character.
Otherwise, it would be okay. There are probably precious few NPCs in the early parts of Kingmaker, so having a GMPC would make some sense.
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First of all, I have an idea in mind for a GM PC. I am working on the backstory right now and trying to get a sense for the character's motives and interests. when I have it fully fleshed out I will let you guys know.
Secondly, I am sending each of you PMs in regards to catch up and rereading that I am doing in concern to each character's backgrounds and current storylines that I am aware of. In those PMs I am asking specific questions and wanting to have any information that you guys would like to share with me. This is a chance for you guys to directly affect the world.
I am going to try and take a page out of one of my live DM's pages. He runs a self built sandbox game, and I do rather like the way he does things, mainly because each player has a stake in what is happening as well as myself as the DM.
In this case, you guys are building various aspects of the game from the ground up essentially, so the questions that I am asking now are more in a formative nature, as I try to sew up what is happening for moving forward with the game, and hopefully we can push through book one in a more organized and less bogged down manner. In essence, when it is something that is directly tied to your character, I want you to be an integral part in creating the organization or relationships that you are a part of.
If I ask you what your character knows about something, share with me what they know. If I ask you what you as a player knows, I want you to share with me your ideas for it.
For example: One of our players is playing a bard that has ties to a bardic college. If I were to ask the player about the bardic college, what I am looking for is the following things: Name of the college, what political ties it has if any, Names of the Leader and any notable members and their roles, the character's current standing in the organization and what the character thinks their standing is (one does not have to match the other).
Second example: I am playing a character. A peri-blooded emberkin Aasimar named Zhal Peng, the travelling mystic of Goka. He is a practiced wizard, and also a priest and cleric in good standing of Nethys, the lord of magic. He has come to the Stolen Lands to map the region, search for lost magics and places of power. He intends to try and start a school of magic, and build a temple to Nethys in the region if he can convince the Swordlords of Brevoy to allow it. He is also a member in good standing with the Pathfinder Society, a mid level Chronicler that reports directly to Ambrus Valsin of Absalom, though he tires of the life of the Pathfinder and would rather help settle a land and make a place of his own to live and love. By human standards he is old, nearly eighty five years of age, his human mother having passed on, and he has no idea who his father is much to his chagrin as he has tried to divine the nature of his father on many occasions.
This is a quick off the top of my head write up if my 10th level theurge were to be played in this game. The things in here that are useful to the character and the DM: Ties to his homeland of Goka (though not strongly), Church of Nethys, Pathfinders (though he wishes to retire), longer lived than most humans, searching for a place to call home, and is searching for the nature of his father.
All of these are points of plot that we can work with, and helps me get a sense of both what is important to your character, but also what world forces are at work that will be a part of that character's life, as well as the party's life in general.
When you guys get your PMs, let me know of things in that vein, so that I can start to get a good fundamental understanding of all the market forces that are at work in our game, and also what each of your characters really cares about. most of this is in addition to backstories, and also clarifications so that I can go forward with the standard level of DM plotting and scheming to dest..., I mean prosper and enrich the PCs. :P
I hope this all makes sense?
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As a follow up to this:
The character that I have in mind to DMPC would be a face type character, someone that is good with people and good at talking to others, and also would have some decent skills to go along with it.
They would not have any "rogue-like" skills, and in a combat situation would probably feel more like a supporter/caster than anything else while not being particularly reduntant to anyone in the party (at least I do not think so).
I actually have a rather irrational aversion to rogues and fighter types in general (notable exception is trying to play a paladin in a WotR game.)
If you guys would like to have a rogue or rogue skilled member added to the party, I would be more than happy to recruit someone to the game to help fill out the party. I think with the character that I have planned, if it takes the shape I currently have in my brain, adding a good rogue skill oriented character would fill out the group perfectly. Or at least, perfectly in my mind. Which means completely crazy. :P
Any thoughts? If no one is opposed, my intent is to have the group hopefully in the town by Sunday/Monday, and to have a recruitment thread finished up hopefully near there so that we can get rolling again.
Evening so far is looking good. :)
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Two things I need to know for when you guys are in the weeds, I mean woods. :P
1) Marching order or grouping, how are you guys going to be travelling and in what positions.
2) Noise level you are trying to maintain. aka, are you hacking and chopping at brush and twigs where needed, are you trying to slowly slip through, how are you proceeding through the forest?
3) What is each character's normal level of readyness? AKA, do you normally carry your sword out, do you shoulder/sheathe your weapons, are you walkreading your spellbook, that sort of thing.
Sorry. The last few days have been insane.
Yeah, end of the week is always a challenge for me as I struggle to get done all the things I've been putting off. Now I have two big assignments due.
But hey, I'm here now. : )
Marching order: I suggest standard arrangement has highest Perception at the front, highest Survival second, squishiest character third, and a rearguard at the back.
Since Harsk has the highest Perception (Katya's is reduced thanks to her drawback) and the highest Survival, I'd put him in front.
Then I'd go (with the arrow representing marching direction):
<-- HARSK (10 feet) CUDDLES (5 feet) ANTON (10 feet) KATYA
What does everyone else think? The spaces are to allow maneuvering and so we don't end up with all four of us falling into e.g. quicksand. : /
For stealth work, I'd swap front and back and double the spacing.
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Noise level: usually I would say we'd try to find the path of least resistance. Forests don't usually have a lot of underbrush. If we're faced with a relatively impassable area then we'd probably try to go around.
But I doubt we're making Stealth checks while we explore.
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Katya walks around with her bow strung, across her chest. Her sword is sheathed unless she needs to use it for hacking and chopping. With her BAB of +1 she can draw the sword or bow as part of her movement, so she should be right to meet any threat that shows itself.
Sorry, was slammed then got super sick. Will get your info to you Angel soon.
I think the proposed order makes sense to me, stealth is pretty much a rough.go.for me. I have other thoughts and will post soon.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Sorry, GM. Too many text walls for me to cope with at once. One thing at a time...
I've realized that I've given Anton only the most slapdash of back stories, so I'll need to work on that while I'm on holidays. Hopefully I can come up with something decent, so I have information to give you!
Marching order looks good to me, as does noise level. Regarding readiness, well, the upside of being a primary caster is not needing a weapon :P Anton mostly just trudges along with his staff.
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LOL
Its ok guys, i'm mainly dumping a lot of things right now to get my head in the game, and trying to keep focus on it. I know that we have been dragging a bit so I want to try and help pick things up a little.
Get to me when you can. I am not hurting to add on anyone just yet. I don't mind adding someone at a later level.
I am mostly wanting to understand more deeply the dynamic of my players currently in game so that when we do look for someone that I can find an appropriate fit for the group.
I think for the most part Harsk would walk unarmed when out in the open. Cave or forest he would have his hammer out but not his shield, I figure if he is making survival checks that would just get in the way.
Did we reach a determination about whether we were bringing in Angel as another player or an actual other player or both?
Angel I should have responses for you by tonight.
Hey guys, a natural gold mine. Our kingdom is officially rich! :)
Harks is seriously having a crisis of faith. Dwarf instinct says MINE MINE IT NOW but his faith in Torag says he has other things to take care of...at the moment. ;)
Hehehe...nothing like a gold mine to get our little empire off to a good start. We might want to defend it with something once we start building things, I suppose!
We're off to a damn good start, eh? :D
Uh oh did we lose Angel to boss shenanigans?
I certainly hope not.
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No, not yet.
After the vacation days of last week, then we had office manager sick yesterday and today, so when I tried to post about 6 times today...
ick. I am home now, and should have something together later.
I was going to wait to see if Choon wanted to do anything. I know he is having fun at home, so I was going to wait for him, but if I don't see anything from him before bed tonight, I will keep the ball rolling.
EDIT: Dammit choon, stop that! :P
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Marching order as I have it:
<-- HARSK (10 feet) CUDDLES (5 feet) ANTON (10 feet) KATYA
This is how I understand it.
You all are moving north along the river.
Katya, you are about 100 feet away from your first spoiler, if you share your info.
This seems a bit cumbersome, but with the way the rolls landed, i suspect there is going to be a lot of movement and a great deal of things happening very quickly, so I am going to slow this down into combat rounds.
Any questions, please ask. Walls of text will be ajudicated by me as to how much gets out per round, but for the most part I think you guys do well with those. I'm the one that gets crazy verbose. :P
That looks right to me.
Well, it's good to have you back. And yep, I'm pretty sure that was the marching order we agreed on. =)
Just so everyone is aware, I am weeks away from the birth of my second spawn. My posting may become sproatic or drop off a bit as the wife needs me more and more with the approach of The Time.
I don't foresee huge gaps, but I wanted to give youall a heads up, just in case.
Been there! Good luck Choon. Hopefully the sleep deprivation doesn't mean you wind up resembling Cuddles. ; )
I can barely handle the one. Hats off to you multi-spawners ;p