Garundi Futures

Game Master Apoplexic

Follow-up recruitment from the interest check for an episodic-style campaign set in the most Southern reaches of the Inner Sea, roughly 350 years ahead of the current Golarion timeline. There are notable setting changes which I will be adding to the Campaign Info tab over the course of the next few days, starting locally and working out. I am looking for 10 to 12 players for this campaign - the party will be split for most events, but the group composition may not always remain the same. More on this down the page - first, the numbers.
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20-Point Buy. Nothing lower than 7 after racial modifiers, or above 18 before.
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3rd-Level characters and wealth (3,000 GP).
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Half+1 HP/level, including first.
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Three traits, no Drawbacks. This must follow the normal rules, but can include Campaign traits. Rich Parents is allowed - modified slightly.

I will not be using an intelligent ape as a player race, aside from those already published.
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Feat Tax Modifications are in play.

Guns are Martial Weapons for everyone. Advanced Firearms are not yet available; Early Firearms are sold at 75% of the listed price.
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Background: See the interest check for some primary setting changes. For the time being, you can develop the "idea" of your background. As I fill in the details of the world in the Campaign Info tab, you can define the background further. Of primary interest here is how your Occupation Skill is justified with the rest of your mechanics - how you came to be a Barrister, for example, and why you were hired over another Barrister.
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Campaign Basics:
You have been hired by a Merchant-General of the Church of Abadar to aid in establishing a new seat of civilization in Garund, in the empty space near Mzali way at the bottom of the map. This campaign forum will have the Gameplay for times when the entire party is together, as well as the OOC Discussion thread. A different campaign forum will be used when the party is split - which should be most of the time. That particular forum will only have game play posts in them; we'll need to utilize all three workable tabs. Initial splits of the party will be done by the NPCs; after the first few events, I will allow the PCs to determine the party compositions among yourselves.

If you have any immediate questions regarding the setting that you need to know in order to mechanically construct a character, please ask. Otherwise, please hold all background-related setting questions for a few days - I have a lot to get up, and I don't want to repeat myself.

Recruitment will close at 11:59 PM Eastern on June 25th. If something happens and I can not get all of the setting details up in a reasonable time, I will extend this deadline. If I've forgotten anything, please let me know.

Important - Please separate your Occupation Skill and Commerce/Production from the remainder of your skills on your sheet. I'll need to see this one more than the other ones, and I don't want to have to hunt, nor confuse the Occupation skill with any other background skill.

Edit: Alignment! Can't believe I forgot this part. You may play as any alignment you choose. Additionally, Paladins may be Lawful-Neutral - in that event, swap anything that targets Evil for targeting Chaos, and anything that represents Good for Law. Energy effects are as normal for a LG Paladin.
These, however, are not allowed:
CN - No anarchists who despise civilization, though a Bard/Rogue who cares more about entertainment than laws is acceptable.
NE - No wanton killing of innocents, or plotting against your fellow party members.
CE - Just get along with the game - this is the one alignment I'd considered banning, but I'm instead opting to trust you as players to not be disruptive to the group if you choose this.

Dot.

This looks like it could be fun. I look forward to seeing what you come up with for campaign settings before I attempt at creating a character.

What I built at first was a tengu cleric of Abadar with lots of appraise, languages and a book of letters. I hope that's not too on the nose. I'll rebuild with these parameters in mind and stew on back story while some other peeps submit...

Dotting! Gonna peruse through my list of character ideas , see if anything stands out for this campaign.

What I built at first was a tengu cleric of Abadar with lots of appraise, languages and a book of letters. I hope that's not too on the nose. I'll rebuild with these parameters in mind and stew on back story while some other peeps submit...

Not at all - the more your character is organized around the Occupation, the more sense it made that you were the one hired over someone else.

E: This is also not at all to say that combat is unimportant - this is as normal a campaign as any other, except that the focus is broad and undefined rather than a series of quests. I have at least one dungeon crawl for several mid-levels for the entire group, as well, so there's plenty of action.

Count me as interested.
Not sure whether to play a shaman, druid, wizard or witch... but a primary caster certainly.

I have a couple of questions, but I'll hold them.

This looks pretty interesting. When I have more time I'll give the other thread a read and write up some stuff for you to look at and comment on.

Can you give me an Earth-equivalent tech period for the world?

would you allow Path Of War classes?

Can you give me an Earth-equivalent tech period for the world?

For the rest of Golarion, nothing is really different than standard - magic seems to stall development to a large degree, and for good reasons.

For the still-unnamed Steampunk country, it's generally 1770s, but with the next Earth-century crammed into about the last 20 years on Golarion - much like the speed of our last two decades of technology; they have rudimentary steam engines doing regular work, but also electric lighting, steam radiators for heat, and early stage telegraphs. Few other places aside from Alkenstar have any real interest in it, with Nex and Geb still doing magical work and having largely abandoned their claims and relegating it to an experiment they're obligated to partially fund.

Guns are Commonplace-ish for this campaign because of the proximity to these two locations. Locomotive steam engines are in development, but magic is still cheaper and more reliable.

would you allow Path Of War classes?

Forgot this bit as well - sorry.

Limited Third Party. I do not want new classes, races, or systems (such as spheres). However, small things, like animal companions, spells, and the like might be okay. I'm going to tentatively okay all 3pp Favored Class bonuses and alternate racial traits, however - if you want one, make note of it, but many races lack these in Paizo publications.

Sounds neat. Not sure yet but I'll definitely think on this.

Dot :-)

OK, I have a few setting-related questions. I don't know if you're prepared to answer them, but they're important.

1.) What tone of game are you aiming to run?

2.) Is it just one faction (the church of Abadar) that's funding this endeavor, or several?

3.) What is the reason behind wanting to start a new civilization? Does that area have special resources? Is it defensible against a prevalent enemy?

4.) How is the Church planning to advertise or recruit? Are they going to only ask people that they already know about? Are there gonna be jobs notices up in random taverns? Is there an interview process?

OK, I have a few setting-related questions. I don't know if you're prepared to answer them, but they're important.

1.) What tone of game are you aiming to run?

2.) Is it just one faction (the church of Abadar) that's funding this endeavor, or several?

3.) What is the reason behind wanting to start a new civilization? Does that area have special resources? Is it defensible against a prevalent enemy?

4.) How is the Church planning to advertise or recruit? Are they going to only ask people that they already know about? Are there gonna be jobs notices up in random taverns? Is there an interview process?

1.) Don't care; if the players want to brutally conquer the world and enslave all inferior specimen of mortals, that's fine. If they want Heaven on Oerth, that's fine too. I expect it's likely somewhere in-between for most people. And I say this from a person-perspective as well as an NPC one; Church of Abadar wouldn't really care if it's Evil or Good, so long as it's Lawful and civilized.

2.) You have been hired by the Abadarians. Other groups are probably trying to make money, too.

3.) As stated in the first post of the interest check, after Sargava ran out of money, the native Mwangi peoples adopted the feudalistic ways and "civilized." Now, instead of fighting tribal xenophobes, the rest of the world is greeted by merchants and traders looking to improve their quality of life - with the exception of the demihumans, but that's true of anywhere. This area is currently unclaimed by any particular power, and near enough to a large metropolis that building a settlement isn't entirely from scratch.

4.) You tell me how you were selected and why - as far as your backstory is concerned this has already happened. It should be fairly obvious that my focus on the Occupation means you qualified for a specific task; why you are special is your job to create. It seems fairly unlikely, however, that random fliers in taverns would be used as a method of recruitment for this.

Don't know if you've thought of these, but don't feel the need to answer in this thread; just put it in the campaign tab.

So if Alkenstar - on the east coast of Garund - has conquered much of the Shackles and Sodden Lands - on the west coast - then what's going on in the middle? Did they subjugate the Mwangi Expanse too, or did they go around it (i.e. to the south, towards former Sargava)?

Also, what happened to the Chelaxian settlers in Sargava? Did they get exterminated, assimilated, or expelled? And if the latter, where did they go?

And one last set of questions, which is more pertinent to character creation:

Where is the Church recruiting from, and therefore where should we be from, generally? How are regional or group-specific traits/archetypes/etc. handled, especially if the particulars of the region (i.e. areas that have been conquered by Kelesh/Vudra) have changed? And can we assume that the Vudran pantheon (though unfortunately still not very fleshed out) is more commonplace in northern Garund?

Trying not to make this about the proximity to Geb, but... attitude to controlled mindless undead?

Edit: Geb has farmers with mindless undead as farm machinery. Mindless undead have terrible Profession:Farmer skills. Would they actually help with farming? Technically oxen have terrible Profession:Farmer skills as well...

I'll briefly cover these here.

1 - Neither; when Nex returned, after the feud, he had thousands of years of history to catch up on. Aroden's death fascinated him - in my mind they probably had contact with each other to some degree - and he went snooping around the Eye. Nex and Geb are basically demigods, and they agreed to let the leaders of Alkenstar play around with mixing magic and technology there out of, largely, boredom. The waved their Bigby's Insulting Fingers at the pirates and set up shop.

2 - There was some fighting, but the Mwangi, for the most part, were far nicer to them than they had been treated, letting them participate regularly in society.

3 - Globally; if you can pull it off, you can even be from Iblydos. Abadar is an original deity, and arguably has one of the most influential portfolios in the Material Plane. They found who they needed for the jobs. Regional/group qualities can simply be reflavored to give the same mechanical benefits with a different name. Vudra and Kelesh conqured what they did specifically to rid Cheliax of Asmodeus; while they're not going to give up their control, they did little to change the culture of the regions - many of the people of Rahadoum still reject religious beliefs, but their violent refusal to allow it has been squashed by the powerful governments and genie magic, for example. Since most of the world didn't care for Asmodeus having a grip on them anyway, rebellion and the like has been minimal; Taldor suffered the most damage to their national pride, but for the most part, the people had seen it coming for generations, and generally grudgingly accept the new status quo.

3.) As stated in the first post of the interest check, after Sargava ran out of money, the native Mwangi peoples adopted the feudalistic ways and "civilized." Now, instead of fighting tribal xenophobes, the rest of the world is greeted by merchants and traders looking to improve their quality of life - with the exception of the demihumans, but that's true of anywhere. This area is currently unclaimed by any particular power, and near enough to a large metropolis that building a settlement isn't entirely from scratch.

So, what I'm understanding from this is that there is no specific reason why that land is being taken. No special resources, no strategic gains.

Since you also seem not to have specific goals of either storyline or tone for this game, that leaves us largely responsible for our own inspiration.

Who lives in the unclaimed area now?

I guess my question could be refined to: What's the goal of the Church when it comes to starting a new settlement?

1 - Neither; when Nex returned, after the feud, he had thousands of years of history to catch up on. Aroden's death fascinated him - in my mind they probably had contact with each other to some degree - and he went snooping around the Eye. Nex and Geb are basically demigods, and they agreed to let the leaders of Alkenstar play around with mixing magic and technology there out of, largely, boredom. The waved their Bigby's Insulting Fingers at the pirates and set up shop.

How do they control land on opposite sides of the continent then? Magical portals or something?

Trying not to make this about the proximity to Geb, but... attitude to controlled mindless undead?

Edit: Geb has farmers with mindless undead as farm machinery. Mindless undead have terrible Profession:Farmer skills. Would they actually help with farming? Technically oxen have terrible Profession:Farmer skills as well...

This was an edit to my last post that vanished somehow - forum is being screwy, so I'm going to stop for the night so I don't lose any work.

Basically, so long as you aren't killing people to make new zombies, no one is going to pay you much mind for having mindless undead. Controllers of mindless undead make the checks for Occupations.

So, what I'm understanding from this is that there is no specific reason why that land is being taken. No special resources, no strategic gains.

Who lives in the unclaimed area now?

I guess my question could be refined to: What's the goal of the Church when it comes to starting a new settlement?

Abadar is the God of Civilization. The entire region of the Mwangi Expanse and southern Garund has gone from being uncivilized wilderness with no desire to change, to a fledgling civilization and center for future innovations and ideologies, because they have little of their own to go on.

Thus, the entire region is an incredible opportunity for the church to do the single greatest work of their deity, in a way that is actually practical and likely to succeed - as opposed to "defeating evil" or "healing the sick." The 'strategic gains' are building the perfect Kingdom of Abadar on Golarion from scratch, with the 'special resources' of a relatively uninfluenced but open to change population of potential worshipers. For the church, the "perfect kingdom" is one that is well-organized and functional - things that most large population centers are not. This is a Lawful Neutral church, Order is their sole philosophy.

No one lives there; there are scattered tribes, but most of the humanoids congregated in the area directly around Mzali centuries ago, and did not succeed until recently in expanding outward. The rest of the native Mwangi similarly lacked a social structure to progress beyond small tribal holdings, until recently.

Since you also seem not to have specific goals of either storyline or tone for this game, that leaves us largely responsible for our own inspiration.

I do not see this as a problem, but rather a benefit. If you do not share this view, this is likely not the game for you.

I will not herd the players into doing things a certain way. This is a moderate sandbox - you choose how to progress your civilization, beyond the first few scenes as we all fall into our characters/roles. I will not let you Plane Shift all over creation for the hell of it, but neither will I force you to go to this forest and eliminate this monster because someone else told you to do so - if the PCs have a better way of doing something, I see no reason to limit that creativity.

I do have challenges that the party will face - some of which may be halted long before they're even obvious if certain decisions are made. But the fun in this for me isn't telling you my story, but allowing you to tell yours. There is not a singular, world-ending BBEG that you absolutely must defeat - instead, this is where the choices of the party lead to unique challenges based on those choices, and sometimes luck. You could send a group of emissaries to Jalmeray, and fail spectacularly - I can not hinge any future events on the result of this, because you are not expected to completely succeed like with a simple boss fight. A lack of linear progression does not equate to a lack of goals, but rather a flexibility of order and variable definitions of success.

How do they control land on opposite sides of the continent then? Magical portals or something?

Initially, yeah; they Teleported equipment and supplies to set up the major infrastructure, but remember they're almost all mages - 50 teen-level casters could construct an entire infrastructure in a relatively tiny amount of time. Now, though, it is a unique country, technically a territory of Alkenstar, but really runs its own show, with periodic influxes of resources from the three parent countries mandated by the original treaties and such that ended the Nex-Geb war.

Dotting for interest.

I do not see this as a problem, but rather a benefit. If you do not share this view, this is likely not the game for you.

I don't disagree. I just think that it means that I'll have to make a couple of certain kinds of characters for this game, and maybe eschew others.

For the record, I am considering a korasha (male) lashunta whose family immigrated to Golarion precisely for these "opportunities", because, like the rest of Golarion, Castrovel was relatively stagnant. Also, I was thinking that the family lived in poverty and had no real way for upward mobility.

So, they planet-hopped in search of better jobs in a land where people would think them exotic.

My character would be a first-generation immigrant hardworking and dependable. Likely looking at Profession (miner or farmer) for an Occupation. Probably gonna be some variety of martial character.

Some questions about the skill system:

1) Is it possible to take more than one occupation skill via normal skill points (e.g. craft (weapons) and craft (ships)).

2) If so, do we need a commerce and production skill for each one, or is there just one commerce skill that applies to each occupation you have and one production skill that also applies

3) Can Investigators add their Inspiration to any commerce/production rolls? If it is for knowledge (engineering), do they get it without expending a use of inspiration (or if they get expanded inspiration, for any profession skill)

Either way, I would probably submit an investigator.

Thinking of doing some sort of Rogue, because between that and Alchemist that's what I usually gravitate toward. If I took the Sylvan Trickster archetype, would there be a problem with using the suggested fix of using your rogue level as your effective witch level for hexes? Otherwise RAW the entire archetype is slightly trash.

@GM - I wonder if it makes sense in your head for Profession (doctor) or Heal to be added to your list of Occupations. What do you think?

Chewing through the skill rules:

If my occupation Skill is Profession:Merchant...
* My Commerce and Production are WIS skills
* My Background Skills could be Appraise and Linguistics?

lastly:
Any recommendations with respect to languages? So Far I have:

Mechanics interpretations question:
If i wield an axe-musket and have Weapon Focus/ Specialization (axe-musket) does its bonus apply to the melee axe attacks AND the ranged musket attacks? Or since the axe parts says it counts as a battleaxe, i would need different feats. I've seen it ruled both ways.

Considering a Dwarf Trench Fighter employed as a gunsmith/quartermaster.

I'm on mobile so pardon the poor formatting.

You only have one Occupation - the skill chosen with the free point from the list. That skill has all the normal uses, and can benefit from bonuses to those rolls. You can have other skills from the list taken normally with any other points, but they do not count as an Occupation - they're just normal skills.

The Commerce/Production rolls only base off the single Occupation skill, not any other skills. You can apply Inspiration to the base skill, say Merchant, for income checks or the random ones that show up in campaigns, but not to the specific Commerce/Production checks for it; they can't have any bonuses of any type, save for ranks, ability mod, and the synergy bonus.

That trickster fix seems like a duck to me, so I'll allow it.

Profession: Doctor would be okay; Heal no, I didn't want any skill that has a regular use (and or tricks to make it advantageous in combat). For Doc, consider it the same as Instruments and Librarian - the extra skills determine centralized medical facilities and field offices, as well as hiring doctors and managing a hospital budget in a world with magical healing.

Languages - Polyglot is the offical language of all the Mwangi peoples. Some might have their racial ideas still in tact, but most no longer care to differentiate between the racial subtypes, and they've developed the language into full use - though they still use Taldane Common since that's what everyone else speaks.

Mechanics interpretations question:

If i wield an axe-musket and have Weapon Focus/ Specialization (axe-musket) does its bonus apply to the melee axe attacks AND the ranged musket attacks? Or since the axe parts says it counts as a battleaxe, i would need different feats. I've seen it ruled both ways.

Considering a Dwarf Trench Fighter employed as a gunsmith/quartermaster.

I'm okay with it counting, but only for that weapon - you wouldn't get any benefit to a regular musket or a battleaxe.

I don't much like taxes, particularly for non-mages.

Here's the Cleric. I stumbled into a Story Feat (Lost Legacy) Which I think should make for a good seed for backstory.

I just added rulebooks relevant to the region, but let me know if any of these aren't going to work:

Another setting question/thought!

a)What's the tech on prosthesises?

I was thinking of using the feat Possessed Hand as an excuse to have a cool metal arm. Figured since it is a steampunk staple that might be one of the things Alkenstar and friends have figured out. Might be a bit experimental still though, with the concentration drawback and all.

Seems reasonable?

Also!

b)How do you feel about some critter reloading another critters guns?

It crossed my mind that the Sha'ir Occultist archetype might make a passable pistolier if the Jin could help out making reloading less painful.

But I guess this also goes for other familiar-like critters with manipulation appendages, proficiency and sufficient brains/training.

Dotted for interest.

I just added rulebooks relevant to the region, but let me know if any of these aren't going to work:

Those are all fine.

Metal arm and gun critters.

The arm is cool - I didn't care for Iron Gods, so I don't usually consider the Technologist stuff. If you had (or anyone else wanted) to do something like that, I'd be against it, but reflavoring the Possessed Hand feat is perfectly okay.

Applicants, you are all free to reflavor things as you like - I have most of the politics for the region down, as that will have influence on your developing nation no matter the direction, but I don't have specific internal details for most of the rest of the world outlined. Until you interact with Absalom, I don't really need to know how their economy or social structure has changed - as long as it fits what I had down for "how they feel about you," you're welcome to make broad assumptions about your place of origin, especially if you're not local to Mwangi or southern Garund.

Give me a bit to consider gun critters. I was wondering about this myself recently, but I was looking for RAW, not community opinions - I'll get back to you.

I had a question about the Feat Tax rules, if you've got the time

Improved Trip, Improved Disarm, Improved Dirty Trick, Improved Feint, Improved Reposition, Improved Steal

New. You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing a trip, disarm, dirty trick, feint, reposition, or steal combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks with these combat maneuvers. Now a prerequisite for the relevant greater combat maneuver feats.

This feat replaces the Improved Feint feat with a feat that removes AoO and adds +2 but it doesn't mention making Feint a move action like the Improved Feint feat does. Is this just a mistake or did he nerf Feint?

It looks like it's just a mistake, since Improved Feint doesn't do what's on that list anyway - feinting doesn't provoke, and Imp. doesn't give a +2; feinting isn't a combat maneuver anyway, it's a skill check.

So, for our purposes, Deft Maneuvers lets you Feint as a move-action, with no +2 bonus; everything else works as worded.

That's nice to know.

And thanks for looking in to the critter reload.

If it helps, I'm thinking of using a Dragoon Pistol which uses special clips.

So basically three shots then a slow-ish reload. Not quite as much as any of the advanced guns (or even the pepperbox) but still a bit ahead of the standard pistol.

Another setting question/thought!

a)What's the tech on prosthesises?

I was thinking of using the feat Possessed Hand as an excuse to have a cool metal arm. Figured since it is a steampunk staple that might be one of the things Alkenstar and friends have figured out. Might be a bit experimental still though, with the concentration drawback and all.

Seems reasonable?

Also!

b)How do you feel about some critter reloading another critters guns?

It crossed my mind that the Sha'ir Occultist archetype might make a passable pistolier if the Jin could help out making reloading less painful.

But I guess this also goes for other familiar-like critters with manipulation appendages, proficiency and sufficient brains/training.

You might also check out the Constructed Pugilist Brawler archetype.

DBH here. I thought it over and tried a few different concepts.

Then I settled on Mitabu, the guy who gets things built.

The concept is Construction foreman. Someone who has Craft and Knowledge skills picked up from previous projects and can keep a work gang on the job.

I think I've got everything correct, a few little items still to by for his equipment. Let me know if you have any questions or problems.

You might also check out the Constructed Pugilist Brawler archetype.

Thanks for the link :-)

This seems a very interesting concept; let me think about it and I'll try to come up with something.

So on the skills - I'm assuming Knowledge (Engineering) is your Occupation Skill? If so, can you stick it somewhere else, or otherwise call attention to it over the others?

Second, I noticed you didn't take any Commerce/Production- while this isn't mandatory, it will negatively impact the accuracy of your (for lack of a better term) kingdom role; you'd be better served with a rank or two in one or both of those over the secondary craft/professions.

Thinking of submitting a mesmerist as a diplomat/ambassador of the kingdom and psychiatrist. Diplomacy will be her occupation skill with profession: doctor as her secondary.

Thinking of submitting a mesmerist as a diplomat/ambassador of the kingdom and psychiatrist. Diplomacy will be her occupation skill with profession: doctor as her secondary.

Diplomacy is not an option for Occupation Skills - only those skills listed (Appraise, Know:Engineering, and various Craft/Professions).

Question:

Does Craft: Weapons include guns?

Oh, my bad. It is actually under the spoiler. I might probably change her one skill to profession (soldier) or (barrister) or something else that allows her to be in the field frequently.

Dot for future work (pun intended) :)

Question:

Does Craft: Weapons include guns?

No, Gunsmithing or equivalent is required still - they're cheaper and Martial because of your proximity to the Alkenstar States, but similarly Alkenstar crafters hold the market on them fairly tight.

I knew I'd missed something.

I've added Commerce and Production, also I've made Knowledge (Engineering) stand out more as his occupation.

Production is his making construction sites and work gangs run efficiently, commerce is from buying tools and materials for the site, and supplies for his crew.

He is a Jack of all trades for building, rather than a specialist.

I keep screwing up the edits to the campaign info tab - I'm aware of the standard edit timer on profiles, and I assume something similar is happening here; twice now, once with that tab, and once here in response to another post, I have successfully saved edits, only to have them not be there when I get back to it. I'll be taking screenshots next time I do anything major.

So, I'm going to type it all up in office and just paste it over at once, rather than trying to incrementally expand as I have time. Given that, feel free to ask me lore-related questions now.

First of all, dotting.

So I've read over everything you've posted so far, and I really like what I see. I was thinking about playing an Orang-Pendak native of Mwangi, but I would really like to play a medium-sized one. Would it be possible for me to give up one or more of my class levels to take the Giant simple template?