Core Principles: Resizing Stories in the Pathfinder ACG

Next week the Core Principles series covers all things conversion-related. We’re taking a list of pre-Core card changes to PaizoCon and discovering anything else we find there.

I'm finding the change from the AP/Adventure/Scenario cards to the storybooks to be a huge improvement. The enhanced understanding of the storyline and immersion in the game are greatly improved, even for those that aren't keen on roleplaying (roleplayers will enjoy this even more, though). I'm still studying the new rules (after initially sleeving the cards), but I'm really looking forward to playing the new PACG.

Wait I am confused. How many scenarios total is there in dragon demand? Only 3 doesn’t seem like much

Wait I am confused. How many scenarios total is there in dragon demand? Only 3 doesn’t seem like much

Three adventures, not three scenarios. So probably 15 scenarios.

Dragon's Demand has 10 scenarios in its adventure path, including a randomly* generated (and repeatable) scenario.

*There are 6** different types of scenarios to choose from, and multiple choices to be made for locations, story banes, etc. You can select options for each of the decisions, or you can determine them randomly.

**Curse of the Crimson Throne adds two more scenario types for a total of 8 possibly options.

Next week the Core Principles series covers all things conversion-related. We’re taking a list of pre-Core card changes to PaizoCon and discovering anything else we find there.

This is great news! I'm very eager to be playing with my new sets, but I'm still playing through 4 different OP seasons online right now, so the rule updates are something I'm very much looking forward to. I look forward to hearing what people who get to go to Paizocon think about the new set and rules!

Also, looking forward more and more to GenCon, as I hope to be running some tables there!

Loving the new set, just completed the final adventure of Dragon's Demand! Thank you for putting out the PDF of the core rulebook, can we expect card lists and character sheets as we'll like previous sets had?

Vic posted here that character sheets are being worked on, so they should be available soon. I haven't seen any reference to card lists.

Out of curiosity, is there any consideration of converting the first four APs into storybooks using the Core Set format/rules? There probably wouldn't be a huge call for print versions (though I would buy them if they were ever available), but there would probably be some demand for downloadable pdfs.

Out of curiosity, is there any consideration of converting the first four APs into storybooks using the Core Set format/rules? There probably wouldn't be a huge call for print versions (though I would buy them if they were ever available), but there would probably be some demand for downloadable pdfs.

Well, there already is something of a kind, made by extremely talented fans (Autoduelist & co.):

It might not be official, but serves the same purpose, I think. RotR story presented there is different from the story of the Obsidian game, but whatever. Both are very nice.

Out of curiosity, is there any consideration of converting the first four APs into storybooks using the Core Set format/rules? There probably wouldn't be a huge call for print versions (though I would buy them if they were ever available), but there would probably be some demand for downloadable pdfs.

As I mentioned in the PACG panel today, I very much want to do these at some point. Finding the time and budget is a difficult thing, and I have doubts whether they'd be worth it for Paizo financially, but I'd sure like to see them eventually.

Brother Tyler wrote:

Out of curiosity, is there any consideration of converting the first four APs into storybooks using the Core Set format/rules? There probably wouldn't be a huge call for print versions (though I would buy them if they were ever available), but there would probably be some demand for downloadable pdfs.

As I mentioned in the PACG panel today, I very much want to do these at some point. Finding the time and budget is a difficult thing, and I have doubts whether they'd be worth it for Paizo financially, but I'd sure like to see them eventually.

I did purchase the new core + curse so I have a lot PACG to play this year. But I wonder...

Did you considers re-releasing these whole Adventure paths in form compatible with new core? I.E. one box ( one purchase one postage) for adventures 1-6, look from "Excel" changed to "modern cardgame", less wordy card text templating etc.

I have RotRL core, but I didn't bother to get rest of the AP , because it was too much trouble ( and aplication was much more convienient). Now I have a crippled product party playable (adventures 0-1), basically unsellable and chances for getting complete AP now, aren't high. But such product gathering adventures 1-6 would be a way to finish it.

I hope that the publishing plan of the game would be succefull and include NEW APs but If would be a convenient way to get "the classics" one box for AP it could be a sellable product...

Loving the new set, just completed the final adventure of Dragon's Demand! Thank you for putting out the PDF of the core rulebook, can we expect card lists and character sheets as we'll like previous sets had?

We don't even have these for all the previous products. GRUMBLE!

I see people referring to card lists a lot. What exactly are they?

You can find them there in addition to the character sheets

You can find them there in addition to the character sheets

Ah, now I see what they're for; tracking what cards are in a character's deck. Thank you!

They also tell you what cards should be included with each product, allowing you to identify when cards are missing.

Well, there already is something of a kind, made by extremely talented fans (Autoduelist & co.):

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/106306/rise-runelords-adventure-guide-v1 7
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/107542/skull-shackles-adventure-guide-v1 03
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1476441/autoduelists-wrath-righteous-adven ture-guide
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/141835/mummys-mask-adventure-guide-v101

It might not be official, but serves the same purpose, I think. RotR story presented there is different from the story of the Obsidian game, but whatever. Both are very nice.

I agree that those files are nice (I have all of them), but they don't serve quite the exact same purpose as what I was hoping for, the only overlap being in providing storylines to each of the legacy APs. Other things that official storybooks might provide, however, would be aligning scenario rules with the new Core Set formats as well as potentially tweaking legacy scenarios (which might now be better balanced with the adjustments to the rules that have taken place).

Here's to hoping that one day there will be budget, resources, and financial gain for Paizo and Lone Shark to give us redux versions of the legacy APs in shiny new Core versions.

If Paizo wants to play it safe, they could try re-releasing/ revising Class Decks instead. I don’t think it’s a surprise to anyone that the original batch of class decks were super outdated, even before the new design was rolled out (Mystic Theurge in Cleric is particularly bad, due to lack of Arcane stuff to use) But now they are even more so. So do those instead. It lets the devs update old class decks, lets players have their sets updated to the new format, and lets everyone see how they feel about redoing old content without a heavy investment.

Hopefully it would be released with more than just format updates, and actual modifications to the cards to fit with new stuff, like how spells tend to have additional effects now (See: Immolate from last weeks article), or even just outright replacements of a few cards.

Class decks are small, so it’s a bit safer to experiment with them for re-releases. And if it is successful, you could make a show out of releasing the old content. Look at the 10th Anniversary of RotR book, which appeared to be a huge success, or the current Kingmaker campaign. Update the faces of the cards, revise any text needed, throw in a surprise change or two, and toss the whole thing in a mono-color box with gilded text and people will eat that up.

But until then, class decks are a safe option.

I wouldn't expect the APs or Class Decks to be reprinted/revised in the near future, given that those products are all still "in print" and available from Paizo and any number of retailers. (The RPG APs they've revised and repackaged were out of print.)

PDFs redoing the AP stories in the new style could work, though honestly I doubt they'd be worth doing compared to using the same designer time to make new products.

New Class/Character Decks (even if they're "[x] Class Deck 2") are more likely, assuming the new set is popular enough.

I have some dumb newbie questions:

I have been vaguely aware of the ACG since launch. (I looked at the original product, didn't really get it, and haven't looked since.) But my husband recently suggested this might be a game we could play with our teenaged kids, without all the GM prepwork associated with a traditional Pathfinder RPG game.

So, if I buy this core set, we can play through Dragon's Demand out of the box without any additional purchases?

I get that, say, the Curse of the Crimson Throne set allows you to play through CotCT (duh). What do character decks do: add additional character classes to the game, or add more abilities/features to the existing classes, or what?

Not dumb questions at all. I'll do my best to answer:

Yes, yo can play the Dragon's Demand campaign right out of the box with just core. It's a full adventure path, albeit shorter than most around here are used to, but you don't have any expectations coming in, so no worries.

Curse of the Crimson Throne adds a bunch of new cards and is a campaign more akin to what the previous adventure paths were, and more than twice as long as Dragon's Demand. If you enjoyed playing through DD, then getting Curse gives you a much more complete and in-depth experience.

The Character decks serve two major purposes. First, as you suggest, they give you access to new characters and cards that are good for the respective classes, which could spice up an adventure for your 4th or fifth play through. Second, they are needed if you want to participate in the organized play aspect of the game, which utilizes cards in existing APs to tell a new story, and each player will utilize their own class deck and cards, which means that players can swap in and out as they want since their deck is independent of the adventure itself. I'd recommend them only after you have both Core and Curse and know that you're going to be playing this game a lot.

Also, to give you my personal experience, my wife and I have been playing the ACG since the first set, and it is hands-down our most played game. I actually proposed to her by homebrewing an adventure for her birthday and playing through end with giving her the ring as a loot from winning. So, long story short, I recommend it.

I have some dumb newbie questions:

So, if I buy this core set, we can play through Dragon's Demand out of the box without any additional purchases?

If your group is 4 or less you can play without additional purchases. If your group is 5 or 6 you need either a class deck or CoTC.

I get that, say, the Curse of the Crimson Throne set allows you to play through CotCT (duh). What do character decks do: add additional character classes to the game, or add more abilities/features to the existing classes, or what?

The Class decks add multiple characters representing different takes on the class [for example the Wizard class deck re imagines Ezren, adds a necromancer, a magic rouge style character and an enchanter style character], as well as cards that can be added to the game to ensure they have appropriate stuff for them to play with regardless of the AP your are playing. They don't buff other characters.

Also, to give you my personal experience, my wife and I have been playing the ACG since the first set, and it is hands-down our most played game. I actually proposed to her by homebrewing an adventure for her birthday and playing through end with giving her the ring as a loot from winning. So, long story short, I recommend it.

Aw man thats awesome! It is also the game me and my wife keep coming back to. Although we haven't played through them all yet (largely on account of only being married less than a year.)

Thanks for the replies, and awesome proposal, isaic16!

Next week the Core Principles series covers all things conversion-related. We’re taking a list of pre-Core card changes to PaizoCon and discovering anything else we find there.

I misspoke in this comment. I said "next week" where I meant "next Core Principles blog." It'll be up as soon as Vic and company can get the conversion FAQ online, which may or may not be this week.

Frencois wrote:

You can find them there in addition to the character sheets

Ah, now I see what they're for; tracking what cards are in a character's deck. Thank you!

I actually had a freakout because after I finished the campaign, I counted up all the cards and was 1 short. Whenever I sort out the pieces for a game like this I always count to make sure everything is there, a deck list helps a ton with that. Thankfully I did find the missing card, so I didn't need to replace a card that I didn't even know.

Also, to add to the purpose of class decks conversation, one thing I really like about the updated format is that it seems like it's a lot easier to include class decks in non-society play. I got my first Adventure Path about 9 months ago, S&S, and after playing through, I wanted to try adding in some class decks. But it seemed like they would be significantly hampered not having the balance required, like Survival being a crucial skill. DD is DEFINITELY universal for any characters, and based on the way CotCT only includes 4 new characters, I assume that and future APs will be a bit more friendly to any kind of character being played.