Hi Lauren, you are more than welcome as far as I am concerned, we appear to have lost our current witch Katarina (who was a really cool person but it isn't really fair to expect Riatin to play that character forever after (I think) 4 months of absence).
They call me Thunder (Character is Hieronymous Strong), and most people that know me call me Rob, but that would be weird with this crew so feel free to call me Thunder if you want.
Rei said I should try to be funny, I don't feel funny right now, but I have a joke (I am horrible at telling and remembering jokes, good thing there's copy and paste):
A pirate walks into a bar, and the barkeep says "Excuse me, cap'n, but did you know that you've got your ship's wheel stuck in your pantaloons?"
"Aye," says the pirate, "that thing be drivin' me nuts! Aaargh!"
Hi Lauren, thanks for posting.
I'm fine with either class, both will work great in the campaign and have interesting things to do. As Thunder said, our current witch has been missing for a few months, and that role will be a badly needed one, if that's the direction you're leaning.
If you have any questions for me, please feel free to ask. I'm not sure how much rei has gone over things with you, but I'm more than willing to help out (although time for me is very crunched atm) I'll answer as best I can, it just may not be quickly.
I'm looking forward to having you in the game.
Hi Rob and Riatin! Thank you so much for the warm welcome (and the joke!) - then I'll go ahead and create a witch since I think I would enjoy that class and it sounds like a good fit :)
I'm looking forward to joining the game!
Because I don't want to get sidetracked in the gameplay thread: I'm fine with doing flat 10/20/30 for the various cure potions if everyone else is... I appreciate the thematic approach in the variable effects a potion might have, but if we're resorting to potions, I expect the situation might be one that favors more certainty in the result and rolling a 1 on a potion seems like it would be unnecessarily cruel.
Everyone else okay with that?
And Riatin - would this apply only to potions? Other cure spells would still involve a roll? What about the wand? Just so we know ahead of time. :]
As long as everyone else concurs, I'll be treating that CLW pot that G just drank as 10HP.
Potions are expensive, daily spells and wands are pretty cheap. We'll keep the wands and spells at the standard amount. There are bonuses you can get for healing if you take the right paths (not that anyone is taking those but it's still an option) that would be moot if I changed it.
Full disclosure: Our group uses the 10, 20, 30 across the board for all healing, but I feel it makes all healers vanilla, this way a potion is well worth the money you pay for it and one healer can be stronger than another. I also like the decision of whether to burn the more potent potion in combat or wait till after and burn wand charges for healing. I realize its not normal to think this much about imaginary resource management.
Feel free to go ahead and count it as 10.
I realize its not normal to think this much about imaginary resource management.
If by that you mean only people that aren't normal think too much about imaginary resource management then I am probably playing this game with the right people! Count me in as ok with potions being awesome by default instead of random.
My plan was to cast CLW on Garrock, but then the fear happened and I decided that casting the mist spell would be what Hieronymous would do if he were terrified, even though I know that I personally wouidn't want to do it.
Hopefully, we won't all really die!
... but then the fear happened and I decided that casting the mist spell would be what Hieronymous would do if he were terrified...
I gotta say, that was pretty effing brilliant. Unexpected and appropriate. Well done.
Yeah, here's hoping we don't TPK before Lauren even joins us, lol.
Can I get a little help? I'm not sure what G can do here - I thought a 5-ft step would take him at least partially out of the mist, but apparently not? I'm not sure if he could hear the Quasit's last spell and just walk toward her and attack or what... If I need to make any additional checks I'd like to know before I /roll my d20s.
Thanks!
Sorry, haven't had a chance to reply till now. The mist cloud is a big one, it covers a 20 ft radius and is 20 feet high, I admit it's kind of hard to make out against the gray background of the map. A 5 ft step wont get you out of the mist, but a move action could get you to F7 where you would be out. (The rules make it so that if any part of your body is within a square that is affected by an area spell, the character/creature is too, one of the disadvantages to being bigger). Then you would be free to fire a ranged weapon at the quasit or do what you wish without the concealment penalty.
You don't have a lot of experience with spells, but Katarina's condition looks a lot like the one you've seen her inflict on the goblins you've been fighting. So you could move up and try to wake her.
You could try to alter the location of the encounter moving back into the room Zaf is currently in using a double move.
You could run up and try to grapple the quasit as well, then drag her down so your friends can pound on her (also subject to concealment due to spacing)
And a myriad of other things, just most of your straight on attacks will be subject to the mist due to your size and her position. Also you can decide that she's too strong for the group at the moment, regroup and return once you've rested up, but there's no guarantee she'd be here when you return.
No sweat, I'm very busy myself - I'll get to this today, but not sure when... This fight is frustrating - if anyone else has any suggestions, I'd welcome them... I'd like to take advantage of G being able to actually reach the thing while he can, but trying to hit it just seems pointless. Grrr...
Hey, congrats on the sister getting hitched - that must have been fun for you, Riatin!
In other unrelated news, I started playing WoW again last week. Finally decided the thing that's been keeping me from having fun in other MMOs that ARE otherwise fun is the lack of IC (for Duane/Lauren: our guild in WoW). So when I saw that the next expansion is bringing in some features that I'm really interested in (most notably: garrisons), I decided now is the time to get back into practice, re-learn how to play my characters and all that.
After 2 years away, it's a VERY foreign environment. But fun. And already having a great time with the crew - they know how to make an old friend feel welcome.
Thunder, do you still ever play? I haven't seen you on, but haven't been on all that much so far myself, so I'm sure it'd be easy to miss someone. Sure would be fun to see a particular Mage and/or Priest in the next expansion.... :P
More relevant: KILL THAT DAMN DEMON, TINY BARD!
I am currently subbed to WoW and have been on a few times, I was playing my hunter Ricochet and I saw you on a couple nights ago but I think you were in an instance.
Guild chat is very quiet, but Rev and Ru were chatting with me a bit, so I can attest to some friendliness. Still a little weird though, for instance Deth is on quite a bit but never says anything in green, I guess everyone uses mumble to talk now and my preference to only be in mumble when I am in an instance is not conducive to bonding... plus I have spent more time in the last few years playing Eve than WoW.
As I probably mentioned before, I have really mixed feelings about the upcoming expansion, to me it reads too much like Burning Crusade 2.0, which could be a good thing but I would prefer to see something totally new. That said, I was not able to get into the Pandaria thing at all, and have been bouncing back a forth between WoW and Eve, unable to find whatever it is I am looking for. I feel like Blizzard has run out of ideas and now all they have left is self-imitation. I am trying to keep an open mind though, I guess I am waiting to see what the new character models are going to look like and then I'll take it from there.
For character creation:
Hey, Riatin... Can you take a second to explain from your point of view how the Witch spell list works? The familiar appears to be capable of "storing" the *entire* Witch spell list, so I don't know what the purpose of "limiting" the Witch's spell list to those stored by the familiar is.
Then there's something in the PFSRD about "preparing" spells by day, but Lauren and I, looking at it this evening, aren't exactly sure how that works. I never got a good sense of the mechanics of Kat's spellcasting, so I wasn't sure how to advise Lauren on her stuff.
If you wouldn't mind spelling it out like we're a couple of idiots, that would be VERY helpful. :)
Her character is 90% complete and should be presentable before too long. We're both just so slammed at work that finding time to do it on weekdays is tough. Almost done, though!
Okay, the witch's spells and familiar work like this. When a witch finds a spell (say from a book) she can place that magic in her familiar, where it acts as her spell library. (In this way its pretty much like a wizard's spell book)
So, a witch could theoretically have every witch spell in her spellbook/familiar, but the limiting factor to what she can do per day is the number of spells she can prepare from that spellbook. A witch/wizard/cleric/etc (any prepared caster) takes a certain amount of time each day (most typically an hour in the morning) to prepare their spells (place them in their memory) but the spellcaster's ability is limited by their level.
Here's an example:
Katarina adventures hard on Monday and uses all her spells. Her and her party make camp and she goes to bed early because she knows she'll have to take a shift on watch and that she has to get up in time to prepare her spells (typical party things). She wakes up to take her shift at watch, then once she's relieved, she makes her way into the forest with her faithful familiar following.
Once her and the familiar are out of distraction, they set and the familiar starts to teach her, they do their daily lesson and she goes through her usual regiment of exercises trying to strengthen her magic, and her mind. (this could be anything, an hour of meditation with nature, she could have to sacrifice small animals to her familiar, or dance naked under the stars for an hour, it's all character flavor) At the end of the hour, our 2nd level Katarina has memorized 4 cantrips (Bleed, Daze, Guidance, and Light) and 4 1st level spells (Command, Command, Enlarge Person, and Web Bolt).
During that adventuring day she uses Command once, Enlarge Person, and Web Bolt. She can still cast Command one more time at some point until she prepares spells again, but doesn't need to use it. She's cast her cantrips several times each, but the four she has she can cast as many time she wants to during the day without limit.
So she sleeps again, wakes up, and prepares her spells. Today they know they're going into a cave system, so she decides to pick a different series of spells. Today, her cantrips are (Light, Mending, Guidance, Bleed) and her 1st level prepared spells are Dancing Lantern, Mage Armor, Reduce Person, and Burning Hands.
I hope that helps. In wow terms, the familiar/spellbook is kind of like your skill list that you can assign to a toolbar that has a limited number of slots. Those skills have a cooldown until you wake up the next morning.
So now's probably a good time to mention that there are two types of spell casters apart from the Divine/Arcane division.
There are Prepared and Spontaneous casters as well. The primary example of this are Wizards and Sorcerers.
A wizard is a prepared caster and acts much like the Witch in the post above does with minor differences. A Sorcerer is a Spontaneous caster which means he does not have a spellbook. A Sorcerer is his own spellbook, the magic is essentially contained within him. (Oracles work very similarly)
Spontaneous casters have a list of available spells that they know, this list is typically much shorter than that of the Prepared caster, but the number of spells the spontaneous caster can cast per level is much higher.
For instance a 5th level Wizard can cast 3 1st level, 2 2nd, and 1 3rd level spells. A 5th level Sorcerer can cast 6 1st level and 4 2nd level spells and this is typical for most Prepared casters and their Spontaneous counterparts.
Awesome - that's super helpful, thanks! So we just don't typically see that preparation phase, I take it... Kat clearly knows all the rules and ins and outs and never detailed that stuff, so it's just taken as read that it's done as long as the opportunity is there (like staying at the Dragon overnight).
My only remaining question, then, is how many spells of each level the familiar is storing at character creation. According to Hero Lab, *all* level 0 (cantrips) are there to start. Every reference is to "spells per day" and I'm not sure where to find "at level 1, she knows this many spells." Clearly the number is at least 1 because Kat had the ever-popular Enlarge Person.
Oh, and I guess I should ask... I've assumed Lauren will join at level 2 - that's why I rolled her second hit die above for transparency - is that okay? Are there any adjustments you'd like us to make in the creation?
I'll email you a link to my character portfolio - you can see what's going on. Thanks again!
Okay, I have to know - now that it's dead - Garrok's coup de gras would have done ... would THAT have killed her? Because seriously, she had some nasty damage mitigation or crazy HP or SOMETHING going on. I appreciate the fast-forward, though... I knew the sailor's knots would save the day. :)
So at level 3 then, how many lv 1/2/3 spells go into Lauren's familiar? We still haven't worked that out. Thanks for the advice.
Lol, yeah, 34 would have done her in.
She did have some nasty abilities going on, but she was supposed to be a bit of a 'whoa, maybe we should have thought this through better' type of encounter.
She had 5 Damage Reduction and 2 Fast Healing. So the 3's and 4's and such weren't actually doing any damage to her. It takes a Cold Iron or Good weapon to bypass the DR she had.
I'll have to look the spells known list up in a bit, sorry.
Yeah that 5 DR comes right off the top of every damaging attack, doesn't it? That's huge.
No sweat on the spells - I know you're busy... I know Lauren knows which ones she wants, we just don't know how many we can actually add to the familiar. :)
Essentially her starting spells will work like this (just change wizard to witch and spellbook to familiar):
A wizard must study his spellbook each day to prepare his spells. He cannot prepare any spell not recorded in his spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory.
A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from his opposed schools, if any; see Arcane Schools) plus three 1st-level spells of his choice. The wizard also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to add to the spellbook.
Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook:
Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. A wizard can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard spell lists (see Magic).
Spells Gained at a New Level:
Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast.
Spells Copied from Another Spellbook or Scroll:
A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty.
You also gain spells from whichever patron you have chosen to add to your spell list, so Witches get 1 or 2 more.
So at 3rd her spells will at least be:
Spells Known
0 level - All
1st level - 3 + Int modifier
2nd 2 + Int Modifier
3rd 2 + Int Modifier
Thanks again, Riatin. I'll see if we can wrap it up with that info.
In the meantime - level 3 HD rolls for both of us:
Level 3, awesome!
Level 3 hp roll for Hieronymous:
How do I get back the strength that the quasit drained from me, do I need to be healed or does it just come back overnight?
RNG is killing us.
I found a bit more info on the witch stuff - I don't think you get the +Int on levels past 1; I think it's just a flat 2 spells/level automatically. Anyway, we're square there.
Leveling up question: at Lv 3, HL starts offering alternate Favored Class bonuses (these are also listed on the class pages at d20pfsrd). Can we take those, or do you want to stick to +1SP/HP?
Thunder, it would actually end about the same time the fight did.
Rei, those can get a little complicated to track for those not using Hero Lab, so lets just keep it simple by sticking to 1hp or 1 skill point. If everyone feels comfortable with it at later levels we might start using it and make it retroactive. Till then there's enough to learn about normal leveling (ie the witch thing which I've never had to research). Where'd you find that bit of info btw? Just curious so that I can add it to my own rule knowledge.
You bet, Riatin - I was thinking the same thing (generally speaking I'm trying to ignore the stuff from the more esoteric supplements). Plus with his crappy HD roll, G was gonna take the +1HP anyway, as tempting as an extra round of Rage is.
Sorry to make you do more homework - I assumed you were as knowledgeable on the class as Kat (or nearly - she knows everything)... I found a thread on the topic and consensus seemed to be "All 0s, 3+Int 1s, then 2 of every level." This post in particular was useful.
Of course, now HeroLab is getting in the way - its saying 4x0, 3x1, 2x2, and no lv 3s. I can add lv 3 stuff to her familiar, but if I add it to her prepared spell list, I get validation errors. I wonder if there's a campaign setting I need to flag? I'll keep working on it. Thanks for the help.
Oh, and do the characters know exactly what that dagger is after Kat's spell? Because I googled it, and, holy s***.
The Herolab issue you're talking about (since I'm looking at your file) is a different thing.
When you click on the Familiar's Spells button and it shows that table with all the spells, that's the spells that your familiar knows, there's not a limited number because you could theoretically have all of them you could cast if I just threw scroll full of spells or another familiar taught them to your familiar.
What you see with the 4/0, 3/x, 2/x, those are your spells per day. Those are your prepared spells. If you prepare Charm animal three times, it will let you put it in there. Then you go over to the spells tab (the end tab) it reflects what you've prepared for that day and changes accordingly. Hope that helps a bit. Spells can be very confusing and are probably the MOST complex aspect of the game, but after a bit of a learning curve it gets much easier.
As for the dagger, yes she'd be able to tell you all of its properties.
And oh, I get it on the spells learned, the Patron spells replace the additional spells from bonus INT which makes sense. I thought that was a little bit stronger than I would have assumed.
Yeah, actually, I get all that now - the difference between stored and prepared and the spell limit per day... In HL, it just doesn't look like at level 3 a witch can actually prepare any level 3 spells, which I suppose is possible, just strange. Why learn 2 level 3 spells at level 3 when you can' prepare them until level 5? OH- OOHHHHH... Not even gonna edit that for effect, I think dawn just broke on Marble Head: they're not talking about player level, they're talking about spell level - so the character doesn't get 2 level three spells at level 3, they get them at level 5, when spell level 3 opens up.
HA!
HA HAAAAA!!!
So at level 4, she won't automatically learn anything new, she just has to keep looking for level 2 spell scrolls to feed her raven. Then at 5 she automatically gains 2 level 3 spells, etc. etc...
Oh, man - I'm gonna sleep well tonight. There's a weight off my mind. :)
Just a heads up, i am going to be camping... again... 4 days from Thurs-Sunday. My wife has gone camping crazy, that should be the last trip until spring break hopefully. Feel free to cart Hieronymous along with the group. He has one spell left, but unlike our friend the witch it can be any he knows (no doubt at this point the only thing we might want to cast is Cure Light Wounds on the way back to town).
He has the following things in his inventory to sell once we get back to town (or maybe we want to give that book to the mayor):
Scroll of Flaming Sphere
Wand of Shocking grasp (28 charges)
Scroll of Burning Hands
Bottle of Wine
Book "The book from the room appears to be well preserved but very worn, the writing is in a spidery script that's in a language that none of you seem to know but on many of the pages are diagrams of hideous beasts and their apparent means of dispatching their prey."
I will try to get myself properly leveled and added to my character sheet before I leave.
I forgot Riatin said this:
Yeah, just roll out your additional HP here. Do this, roll 2 dice and take the highest. Example
Level2 HP: 1d10 ⇒ 1
Level2 HP: 1d10 ⇒ 6So then I'd take the 6 as my HP for level 2 and add my Constitution modifier to it.
So I am going to take another roll and then take the higher of the two for my level 3 hit points, if that is ok?
Here goes...
That was much better, this is what I am seeing or am choosing for Hieronymous at level 3:
BAB +1 (bringing it to +2)
more hp 1d8+1 (8+1 = 9) for CON
Fort Save +1, Ref save +1, Will Save +0
Spells per day, level 1, +1
Spells known, level 0, +0, level 1, +1 (Summon Monster I)
Skill Points 4+1 for being human: Intimidate +1, Perception +2, Use Magic Device +2
Favored Class bonus (+1 hp)
Hero Point +1
Feat - Power Attack - You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is increased by half (+50%) if you are making an attack with a two-handed weapon, a one handed weapon using two hands, or a primary natural weapon that adds 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier on damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (–50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.
Revelation - Shard Explosion - As a swift action, you can cause jagged pieces of stone to explode outward from your body. These shards deal 1d6 points of piercing damage per two oracle levels (minimum 1d6) to all creatures within a 10-foot burst. A Reflex save halves this damage. In addition, the broken shards make the area difficult terrain until your next turn. You can use this ability once per day, plus one additional time per day at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.
Hey! That's right! Thanks, Thunder (and Riatin for your generous house rule)... That 2 was really annoying me. Hopefully a second roll will fare better. Second roll for G and the witch:
Better. We'll be taking those.
G continues to work on being as frightening as possible in battle, and so will be taking the Enforcer feat.
Improved skills include Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge: Local, Perception and Survival.
At lv 3 he also naturally gains +1 on rolls vs. traps.
Thunder... I'm pretty sure there are mobs in Diablo 3 that do the Shard Explosion thing, heh... The way it's written, I assume that hits friendlies as well, yes? Methinks G will be standing well away from you from now on. :P
I'm sure you've looked over that feat rei, but I just want to make certain, are you planning to use non-lethal damage very often? If so, then no prob, if not you may wish to go another route.
Oh! I read that as "damage that doesn't kill the target" - but of course, "nonlethal damage" means something specific. Hrm - I was going to stick with it, assuming I could do nonlethal damage with a normal weapon, but I see the attack roll is -4 if you do that... Bugger.
Thanks for pointing that out. I might go back to my original idea of Combat Reflexes, or choose something else.
This feels more min/max-y than a more story-driven choice I would have preferred, but this in-game day sucked, so instead, G's feat will be to generate Extra Rage.
Oh, and a side note to our players: We should all now have 3 Hero Points, which is the maximum you can have, so we should start using them - at least once before the next time we level. :)
Yeah, Shard Explosion reads pretty cool, I'll have to be careful if it does affect friendlies. At this level I can only use it once per day, so I'll probably save it up and never use it...
There was another Revelation I wanted to take that allows me to walk us through walls, but it has a minimum level of 7.
Yeah, there are a bunch of pretty badass powers we'll be getting to at higher levels... I want to get there! :)
You have fun camping, Thunder!
Have fun camping man!
I'm going to have Katarina make her way out of the campaign soon and I've contacted Erin to see if he's going to be rejoining us now that his Hero lab is working again.
So Lauren should be joining in as soon as you guys are ready. I have a few questions though. What's her background? Is there a connection for her to the group or is it just random? Once I get answers to those questions, I'm sure there will be more.
I don't want to speak for Lauren, but just to answer the basic part of your question, I think it's safe to say as an elf witch, she probably doesn't have an existing connection to the group.
Hopefully we'll have the full story soon. :)
Riatin,
It looks like there is a little place we haven't explored under the Sandpoint (left side of current map), and if I remember correctly there was a passage we haven't explored that heads off to the northeast. am I correct?
Oh, that just joins up to the other section, there's nothing there but a hallway.
Hi Riatin!!
My character is ready to go, let me know if there is anything I can update:
http://paizo.com/people/Ithrinniel/profile
I'm really looking forward to playing!
- Lauren
Looks good Lauren. Nice background as well. While studying the lighthouse, lets say you're staying at the Rusty Dragon and heard that a group of heroes ventured down into some ancient ruins beneath the town in order to protect everyone. (Rumors fly fast in small towns).
I'll do the wheeling and dealing over here. And yeah, I'll keep the 10% bonus that Kat had just because. So here are the sell prices of the weapons:
Dagger (Alchemical Silver): 13gp
Masterwork Handaxe: 183gp
Longsword +1: 1389gp
+1 Cold Iron Returning Dagger: 6182gp
That's cool, thanks - there's a Masterwork Ranseur in there as well... I bet it looks badass, but TBH G probably won't use it - he's more a sword-and-board sort of fighter, I think. The damage and "Reach" looked good until I saw that Reach means you can't attack an adjacent creature. I like the 5-ft step and all, but really... :]
Gonna let this sit for a while, give anyone else a chance to chime in on those weapons... Also, if anyone picked up anything else, to sell, unload it and we'll divvy up all the scratch at the Dragon!
Oh, and Riatin - G meant to ask Savah something else... I can't edit that post any more, but if Savah has come across anything new and pretty in the day they spent in the tunnels, G would enjoy seeing it. ;)
Sorry forgot the Ranseur, that would sell for 186gp.
I'll do Savah's response when I get a chance later tonight, but it looks like the Spiked Chain that she had has been replaced by a +1 Spear.
I have these things to sell:
Scroll of Flaming Sphere
Wand of Shocking grasp (28 charges)
Scroll of Burning Hands
Bottle of Wine
And if no one else wants the silver dagger, it isn't worth too much but is probably worth keeping in case we fight something that is affected by silver, I think one of us should hang on to it.
Alright, sell prices:
Scroll of Flaming Sphere: 90gp
Wand of Shocking Grasp: 342gp
Scroll of Burning Hands: 12gp
Bottle of Wine: 5gp
Despite the fact that the sale of the The Cold Iron dagger would finance a better spear for myself, I think it should probably go to Zaf if he wants it, or Erin, if he is still playing.