Sandara:
Hp total:39
BAB: +4 CMB: +5 CMD: 16
Saves: Fort +5 Ref +3 Will +8
Skills: Appraise +4, Bluff +6, Climb +7, Heal +8, Knowledge (religion) +6, Profession (sailor) +9, Stealth +5, Swim +6
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 6th; concentration +9)
3rd (3+D)— remove disease, dispel magic, water walkD, prayer
2nd (4+D)— slipstream*D, remove paralysis,, lesser restoration, silence
1st (4+D)—divine favor, entropic shield, shield of faithx2, obscuring mistD
0 (4 prep, at will)—detect poison, create water, purify food and drink, stabilize
I think that covers it.
Fairly complex here on my side. Gaining plant shape, so now it opened the Green Man - a lot of calculations to do.
Thren, you can have the new archer Chakam hired, Darius Deadeye (half-elf fighter 1) or Rotgut (alchemist 1), the latter of whom I think you've left behind at Ghoral Rey for the moment. (I kept accidentally leaving him off the crew list which wasn't helping.) Rotgut was the guy who was heckling you back in Plumetown but you guys then talked down, and followed the lead of the other folks who were your "fans" who became your first followers, so now that he's settled in he may turn out to be a "fan" too... or Darius could have seen the testing and was impressed by your turn in the rigging.
Part of the bonus of your followers is that they become automatically friendly. As a reminder (and to be honest probably clarification of something I haven't explained often enough), 1/day a friendly crew member can automatically aid another for +2 to a ship/crew-related roll.
If you don't like either, you can recruit an acolyte (adept 1 or rogue 1) at one of the two temples you are about to visit.
Let's go with Rotgut and keep it simple.
Sorry I was MIA this weekend. I will post in game and work on leveling Lark.
Chad - welcome back!
Finally completed the leveling, I believe. My combat style as a ranger is Besmara-style and I got Agile Maneuvers :) gonna get those grab going with all those vines heh.
Big leveling changes for me are adding Howling Agony, Dimension Door, and Summon Monster IV.
Took the Evil Eye Hex.
Dimension Door has obvious utility, and all of the rest have multiple rounds of effects.
I also took ranks in Knowledge: Local to reflect what I have learned here in Port.
Haven't updated profile yet.
Profile is updated.
Good idea for Knowledge local.
Chad, as Quartermaster you can easily propose to the other officers to help pitch in on the 300 gp for Beryl's spices. You'd likely be holding onto some of the officer's spare cash/party pool anyway, although getting their permission is of course probably prudent.
To keep things easy, however, if you can't afford the whole 300 gp or choose not to, there is not a halfway here with getting Beryl only some spices. You either can collect and spend 300 gp to get her spices to earn Friendly status for a crew member, or earn 200 gp plus two alchemical items for yourself. It is also not necessarily a bad thing to tell Beryl no.
Makes sense, GMDQ... you are right, though... I do not want to make the call unilaterally, on ship QM or not. I don't want to slow things down for this either though, so just putting it to a quick vote in a "moment in time" segment. I personally think we should go ahead and get them. We have the money and no one wants to be eating the same meal every day with no variety for weeks or months on end.
Edit: meant to add that I have personally been on a ship where we had nothing but pasta (three kinds of noodles, no sauce to put on them) for a few weeks before we got more supplies. It blew chunks of the royally large variety. So I might be slightly biased in my desire to help get spices.
I do have an idea. Put the value of the Elysian bronze towards the price of the spices. We get rid of it as we're still not 100% on its use. We all eat tastier food. Win-win :)
That works well!
With my wild shape now being 3/day and lasting 8 hours each, I pretty much stay shapeshifted virtually all the time (when not in a city etc.). @GM, I will let you think on how you want to rule it, but I'm basically just bringing it up in case we have to have some sort of combat while navigating (boarding, etc.). Unless I have to be swimming, under the sea (like repairing the ship?) or any other thing that is better for me to be amphibious (shifted into the Rusalka), my preferred shape now would be the Green Man - and since it's another medium humanoid which can speak, I just adorn my regular gear like armor and crafting tools.
hm... that works... plus, given it was worth 500 in its own right, that should net me the bounties money as money vice down payments toward spices. Assuming there are no objections to it by this evening I will make a quick post toward that affect in game this evening.
Chakam, while I think it's reasonable to not track your shifting down to the minute, events at sea may happen at strange hours, and you should at least take some note of your changing, especially if we are in the middle of a complex scene or dungeon crawl. Certainly on a typical, non-roleplayed day at sea you can presume you remain shifted into one form during your workday (leaving two other chances to change shape if something happens during off hours).
Correct me if I am wrong--I am reading the druid rules that you can change shape three times per day (one change means into the new form and then back into human or another form). While this shapechange can last up to 8 hours, if an event forces a change (or you are knocked unconscious, which causes a reversion), that still ticks off one use of your ability no matter how long it actually lasted. So that's why I am suggesting that yes, this is a fine thing to assume for downtime and that you will typically be in Green Man form during your workshift, but you will want to keep track during adventuring. Note whole pirates are used to a lot of weirdness, it's possible some swabs may be a bit unnerved by this at first.
Being knocked unconscious doesn't revert wild shape (I can sleep in wild shape if I so choose). I just revert back when the duration ends or if I choose to do so (a standard action). But yes, I need to keep track during complex scenes or dungeon crawl, you're absolutely right. I was mostly referring to the usual sea day. :)
For transparency's sake, as I think some of you have played Skull and Shackles before, I am skipping a step in the upcoming events. The adventure is set up so both Temples have a thing they want you to do, but the OTHER temple has information on how to do the thing. Which in turn basically requires you to do a whole bunch of back and forth between the two temples to complete these tasks that I find annoying, confusing, and unnecessary (especially as while visiting and doing the quests for each temple has value, there is no good story reason for the back and forth that I can discern).
So I'm just having the Temple that wants you to do the thing to tell you how to do the thing without you having to launch an investigation.
I am saying this 1) to note this is not going to affect your leveling/access to treasure, etc. 2) in case by my skipping a couple steps I actually goof up the plot unintentionally. You may not notice.... :) But in case things go haywire I figure it's best to offer fair warning. :)
Have not previously, but that sounds... honestly more reasonable. Why on earth would one temple know how to fix a different temple's problems? I mean, I kinda get it from a game design standpoint: make sure that we have to see both temples and get their quests completed by ensuring they are intertwined... but from a narrative standpoint it strikes me as odd.
Besides, it isn't like we are likely to avoid going to the other temple, unless I miss my mark on what the others are planning.
I have run it, but no worries from me. I only vaguely remember this book. And I ran it with a lot of extra material to expand the sandbox, so I'm not sure what was even part of the story.
I will move us along tomorrow morning. Then I am going away for a couple days -- obviously in the pandemic I am doing nothing thrilling, but getting out of my apartment. Not sure if I will take my laptop with me so I may be slow posting for a few days.
At this point being away from home is likely thrills aplenty!
I'm envious. I'm pretty much fine at home, but my family would really love to look at anything that isn't our walls.
Stay safe and have a great time.
Have as good a time as is safe to do so.
Hey folks, I am back and have hopefully not been exposed to anything unduly. :)
One thing I'm working on is our crew roster. Please let me know if you have any special assignments for our new crew -
These are my assumptions otherwise:
Caulky (Hum Rog 3/Com 3) - swab for now. She could also be watchstander/boarder repeller
Darien (HalfElf Fig 1) - he will be swab for normal duties and a gunner during combat. He has proficiency in ballista.
Kerak Swifthammer (Exp 3) - assuming rank wise he will be "swab" but you'll have him working with the quartermasters and the armory. Alternately you could assign him a specific shipboard job like master at arms or something like, or you may want to eventually take him to work at your stronghold
As for Rowena...
First of all, I did some poor pre-planning and forgot there is going to possibly be an upcoming NPC named "Roweena."
So I'm changing her name to Ravenna Laren to make things slightly less confusing.
Rereading over the thread there seems to be some confusion -- some players have posted presuming she has been left at Port Peril for now to study and you'll come get her later (which I guarantee you can do as you will need to go back to Port Peril to enter the Regatta and/or can also do so over the course of the current adventure). A recent post from Chakam which I failed to properly respond to indicated his interacting with her presuming she is on the ship.
So one thing I need is clarification is if she is on the ship or not right now. It is honestly better if she is not at the moment--she did want time to study at the Redoubt.
Ravenna is a human alchemist (vivisectionist) 1/expert 4. Her skills are, as you might expect, focused upon siege engine crafting, as well as ranged weapon crafting/fletching/and alchemy. Along with Rotgut she can make a few potions and alchemical weapons for the crew. After some time studying, she can also make alchemical ballista bolts (like the normal crossbow bolts that exist but bigger). This will be especially efficient if she's working with Kerak, who has metal working skills. If you put her to work making these, she'd have some for you by the time of the Regatta (the last part of this book you're in now). I'll need to think about how much these would cost (Lathiira, any thoughts? The rest of your thoughts are definitely welcome; Lathiira, I have often relied upon in the past as a rules lawyer in the good sense so I figured he'd have thoughts.)
If she has time, experience, and equipment, she will eventually be able to craft magical siege weapons. I will be honest: I have not put precise thought into when or exactly how. Mechanically, she will be a rare NPC who will eventually become 7th level and take on Craft Magic Arms and Armor as a feat (she has Master Crafter which you can't take till 5th level). The monetary costs to get either a magical siege weapon or, probably easier, magical ammunition will have to be paid by you. I'm thinking this will occur by the next book or the middle of the next book.
Her rank will likely be akin to Ship's Carpenter. You can absolutely leave her on Ghoral Rey where she will happily study away and help build fortifications for the stronghold, as well as craft ammo. She will be able to study and work faster and more easily at the Stronghold; of course the limitation is you have to go back to the stronghold to get your stuff. This is doable through the current act and I think through the future books, but at times the plot will prevent a lot of downtime to do such things from occurring.
Anyway, let me know what you'd like to do with her on the short and long term.
Glad you are back, hope that you didn't catch anything, and hope even more so that you had a good time on your adventure.
The only thing I have in the way of roster updates is that the cook should be happier now that she has her spices, ;)
Beyond that, I have no inputs.
In other news, by my accounting, you have collected at least 60 Stars of Destiny (not all currently/actively part of your crew).
(For anyone who doesn't get this, which is probably most of you, this has absolutely no bearing on the plot or the results whatsoever, I'm just being a dork. Well, except if you don't get all 108, Threnody won't get a free resurrection when she inevitably gets herself killed. ;) )
Glad you are back, hope that you didn't catch anything, and hope even more so that you had a good time on your adventure.
The only thing I have in the way of roster updates is that the cook should be happier now that she has her spices, ;)
Beyond that, I have no inputs.
Thanks! And yes, I will upgrade Beryl to "friendly." :)
Sixty stars huh? Not doing too bad for this stage then! As for that resurrection...well, guess we better go along random roads looking for squirrels or something. Can we recruit Oulan for my bodyguard? LOL
I have no idea what alchemical ballista bolts would cost, alas.
Apologies about jumping the gun. Added info to my post to react to the new information, but it would not drastically alter his reaction.
No problem, Chad, like I said, I forgot to put an "editing in progress" warning on my post. I tend to edit an re-edit a few times before finalizing a post as I process die roll results.
Those NPC assignments work for me.
I thought Ravenna Laren stayed at Port Peril to study. She was to complete the education we paid for and then join us afterwards.
Heh... yep. At least most of us saw the rope, so even though Chad thinks they somehow have a mist cloud for a ship (which totally would be an awesome idea) we will mostly be ready to greet our 'guests' with proper 'hospitality'...
My perception check would also be +4 higher if they're human. It serves me no purpose - I'd switch that check with my Will without a single thought :/
The rope is not human, unfortunately. :)
I love the cloud-ship!
Figured :) I adjusted Chakam's position in the map. He will usually prefer to stay close to the center (so he can better use his long reach with less danger).
So Chad would want to shoot at the area of the monkey scream, though I know that it would incur a miss chance since I am effectively blind firing. What would be the miss chance and would you prefer to roll that or should I?
Just as an adjust, with Barkskin my AC is actually 3 higher (from NA) than the numbers on my header.
That's why I had asked! I had assumed your statblock included it already, so thanks for clarifying.
With apologies for being pedantic, technically barkskin is an enhancement bonus to NA which is why it can stack with your own. Natural Armor doesn't stack with itself. I'm saying that not for your benefit but for anyone else reading so they are not confused.
Barkskin toughens a creature’s skin. The effect grants a +2 enhancement bonus to the creature’s existing natural armor bonus. This enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every three caster levels above 3rd, to a maximum of +5 at 12th level.
The enhancement bonus provided by barkskin stacks with the target’s natural armor bonus, but not with other enhancement bonuses to natural armor. A creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0.
It does stack with my natural armor (just not with other enhancement bonus to my natural armor like Ironskin, which I should have used in this case, but it was too late to change).
So that actually raises a question in my mind, albeit one that doesn't apply to Chad. Granted that if you have a sword you probably can't attack and then draw a ranged to attack with that (or vice versa) so this doesn't happen often... but what about someone building around a thrown weapon (like a dagger or a star knife) as their primary weapon? I could see as being "logically consistent" someone stabbing a close range attacker with their dagger, then throwing it at someone within range as a full attack, given they do not have to swap weapons during the action. Is that actually prohibited or is it just so uncommon that most don't even consider it? (Granted he would then be unarmed until the next round when he could draw something, but I am assuming that the risk was accepted under the circumstances.)
As I said in the other thread, ranged attacks and melee attacks are classified as separate types of attack actions. While true, a full attack does not explicitly say that it has to be all of one type of attack or another, I believe and will hold firm that is the rule as intended, even if not as written.
If I were to rule otherwise, that means I could have all of my enemies full attack with both ranged and melee attacks at once, including when attacking you with monsters similar to the Green Man (although hopefully with an APL-appropriate CR). This is not a rules interpretation I would feel would be fair for me as GM to use upon you, the players, and therefore also ask the players to be understanding in abiding by this ruling.
I recall, Chakam, that when you asked about using these forms, knowing they were very powerful, I agreed using these late-development monsters as valid druid forms was a tricky at best, but that felt it would be worth exploring as long as things appeared to remain relatively balanced and within the way druids are intended to work. Do not give me cause to regret making this agreement with you. While I don't care if you beat my monsters (my encounters tend to be weak in general anyway), I do care if you end up doing all the work for the party and they have nothing to do, because of a rules fluke.
As for the dagger-attack question, I can see how narratively this kind of things make sense. (Starknives and similar weapons as well.)
Mechanically, if you're attacking in melee, unless you actually kill the foe you are in melee with and you are not adjacent to another melee foe, you would then provoke an attack of opportunity for using a ranged attack while in someone else's threatened area. Depending you might also trigger the -4 penalty for firing into melee (unless you have Precise Shot, which is a hard feat to get if you're also trying to make an effective melee dagger build). I doubt this happens terribly often, save perhaps for some lucky hits made by savvy knife master rogues. If we're RAWing the full attack description, technically it also has to be a double weapon or two weapon fighting.
I could see arguments for specific cases like this but I think for simplicity's sake it's easier to say this is not allowable.
I welcome everyone to weigh in on this question.
My two cents: a creature like a kasatha is perfectly capable of shooting his bow with two of his arms and attacking in melee with the other two. What limits him is his limit of iterative attacks, which doesn’t apply to natural attacks.
Regardless... The forms I’m using are powerful. Maybe too powerful, and if my colleagues - GM included - want me to change, I’ll gladly do so.
Hm... an interesting perspective on it. For a while I was trying to get a version of a fighter that focused on the star knife to work (specifically throwing it, but a good portion of the feats just cared about the weapon in hand, not how it was being wielded) and it somehow never even occurred to me to ask if going from melee to ranged in a full attack action would be legal. (Cyrius here is a hyper optimized version of it for a campaign that never got off the ground... nevermind the fact he has too many feats, those were from the specific home rules. Also the archetype was my solution to the question: how do you prevent someone throwing your uber-magical blade back at you if you fail to kill them?)
For natural attacks, I have noticed that (usually) creatures that have multiple forms only ever seem to attack with one or the other, not both. Dragons will either use a breath attack or claw and bite, as an example. Now it could be that it is because the GMs don't want to TPK their tables every challenging combat... or it could be because the RAW/RAI exclude creatures from using both kinds. Regardless, since our input was asked, I think that the logic behind GMDQ's interpretation is sound and fair, especially given it is applied across the board.
I would agree that creatures cannot typically use their ranged attacks and melee attack lines as part of a full attack when those lines are different weapons. I have nothing to support that argument, just that is the way I have always run it.
As for weapons, if you are using the same weapon, I would allow a character to use ranged and melee attacks with the same weapon. Improvised thwack someone with a bow, then shoot an arrow, stab with a dagger and then throw it. Or with two weapon fighting I'd allow one melee with a sword and ranged with an offhand dagger or something like that.
I'd have to do some digging, but I know I've run across cases where melee and ranged attacks could be missed. Those cases, however, required the Quick Draw feat and thrown weapons. Something like, start the full attack, down your melee foe, then Quick Draw thrown weapons and hurl them at nearby enemies. I've never seen a case with natural attacks that I can recall.
Re: Chakam's forms. Later Bestiary monsters usually stretched the CR system more than early monsters. The Green Man I see in the Archives of Nethys is CR 26, which is way beyond shapechanging. Is it called something else?
As for character abilities, balance, and fun, I'm not too worried about that. I think that on paper my build is fairly good, but in play it isn't performing all that well. But I don't care, really, I'm having fun. I'll leave it to DQ to judge what is fun, there.
Folks, I've had a busy day and I'm not feeling so hot (actually what it is is I'm feeling too hot--weatherwise, not fever!) so I'm going to try to keep this brief (ish).
- I stand by only ranged or only melee in a full attack. Chakam, you will need to pick which you attacked with. I would suggest melee since you get more of those attacks.
- In response to Chakam's other remark in the game thread--the rules for extraordinary abilities pertain to special abilities (listed on the statblock as either special attacks or special qualities). Dragon breath is a special attack, not a ranged attack, so does not follow rules for ranged attacks. Natural attacks follow the rules for weapon attacks except for the explicit exceptions outlined in the core rulebook (regarding multiattacking, etc.). (And actually part of the problem is in the core rulebook is that natural attacks are explicitly described as a type of melee attack and when they started adding more monsters with ranged attacks they failed to follow up with any errata or clarifications. Without such I will follow the rules for ranged attacks. I think it makes sense for ranged attacks to provoke AOOs as the concept behind that is you are leaving yourself open to nearby opponents while you focus on distant ones. And yes, for a manticore's spikes I would say they provoke.
- Yes, the Green Man is the CR 26 creature you are looking at, Lathiira. Chakam did show me the stats prior. I figured it was still limited by what you can do with Plant Shape I/II and wanted to see how it would work. Maybe that wasn't the wisest decision, but I own that it was mine. :) If you're aware of CR limitations on allowable forms, let us know. In retrospect, it's probably a sensible limitation to apply, if fun-limiting for druids (but druidzilla can be fun-limiting for other players and the GM as well).
- Waiting on Lark to move combat (and see if he has thoughts here).
This game is by far one of the most fun I'm playing at the forums right now, and I don't want to disturb it any minute. I'm assuming here with my friends a compromise to not enter this shape again - I just don't want to harm anyone's fun at any moment.
There are no CR restrictions for druids - the only restriction is that the creature matches a certain type (in this case, plant) and is not unique (green men are not). However, green men are mythic creatures and avatars of a deity. They are absurd powerhouses and sit at CR 26.
Druids shifting in green men are far from that level of strength for obvious reasons. You don't actually become a full fledged green man; there are several of its powers and abilities you don't get. Spells and sla, for instance, or its attributes. Regardless, you do get its natural attacks, some of its senses and, as the druid progresses in level, lots of other strong things.
There are other very strong shapes. The Rusalka I was using before is also fairly strong, but not as much. For this specific archetype I'm using, since it opens shifting into fey, things get silly fairly easily (like 120 feet movement, etc.).
Druids are a terribly unbalanced class. Most druids and shapes are horrible, just bad, compared with other classes. By other side, there are certain shapes which are insanely strong for specific situations. So either you are the weakest link or the monster.
On my tabletop game we usually just plain block certain shapes we already know of (which keeps changing every time a new bestiary comes out...) or we block sources (no mythic creatures, no creatures from bestiary XXX, etc.). While I certainly don't recommend limiting the CR to our level (since druid don't get all abilities of the creatures, just what's in the beast shape/plant shape/etc. abilities), we could limit it to maybe CR 18 or 20. There would, however, still be creatures strong, and we maybe need to tackle it case by case.
Chakam is already not fully optimized. While the combination with ranger is great and some of my wild shapes are awesome, I did limit him by adding the support to siege engines, including eating up feats and skills (which I starve). I guess we all know "it could be worse", right? :)
Anyway - I will not use the Green Man shape anymore. Please assume I'm using the melee attacks only, unless I post something different on my action.
If the group wants, I'm also up to changing the character completely. No hard feelings, no sweat, it'd be my pleasure. I honestly just want to be part of this awesome team and AP, and I really like the GM as well!
Sorry for the further delay--feeling much better, but today was the first day at my new job where my supervisor was not around, and there were about three people with urgent questions who were trying to get me to provide answers only she really had the authority to, while also otherwise juggling a lot of deadlines.
Chakam, I appreciate your understanding and your willingness to scale back. You bring a lot to our "table" so to speak and so I also agree I want to find a happy medium. I think I'd even be willing to allow the Green Man or something like it perhaps with the following modifications:
- No more than 20 ft reach (were the original creature NOT CR 26 and were I editing that Bestiary, I'd be asking the devs what the heck they were thinking on giving a Medium sized creature 30 ft reach)
- No more than 4 attacks on a full attack (or more than the number of attacks you could normally make on a full attack, whichever is higher)
What do you think?
(Speaking of reach--I was reading through the combat section and it noted that reach weapons only work at the extent of the reach and not closer. I don't think that's true for natural attacks with reach--is that right?)
Druids are interesting and yes, they ebb and flow a lot between balanced/broken--and all the Paizo did to fix them in core almost immediately got unbalanced once new books started coming out. Circumstances and context can also matter a lot. I'm playing an urban druid in a PBP here on the boards, which I've discovered is a rather gimped archetype... and yet fortunately she works super well for the largely exploration/skill-based campaign she is in. I think your character has a lot to bring to this specific party and campaign... without 10 attacks per round at level 8. :)
========
Now, if ANYONE is unhappy with their character or how it is working out, I am always fine with either retraining, or even starting a new character if that's what you want to do. Fortunately you're in an archipelago of adventurous souls so it's easy to explain crew comings and goings. Thren has done Ultimate Campaign-based retraining in this game when she needed to rework a few feats; if you want to make minor changes to your existing character I think it probably makes the most sense to use those rules. If you want to do a massive rebuild or start a new character we can talk about how to make that work. Ultimately the point here is everyone has fun and has a part to play in this adventure. If anybody needs downtime for retraining, we can insert it between this current chapter of adventures and the next.
Kahuranga--to me it seems like your character is working very well, but if you are unhappy please consider the above.