Looking at the PCs, I don't think Julius has enough of a power base to really get a good civil war going. Instead, you could secretly plot behind the scenes. After all, Wilhelm has no children, so if he had an accident the crown would naturally pass to...
Edit: More stuff to think about: What are you going to call the kingdom? What are you going to call the capital? What alignment is your country going to be (it's sort of like what alignment will the general policies be, you get bonuses and penalties to various areas depending on what you pick but they're way less important than the roleplaying implications to international relations)?
Dexter is shaping up here.
A couple of questions before I quit for the night.
1) I'm assuming the 25 point buy includes the level 4 ability bump. Is this correct?
2) How useful/necessary do you see Item Crafting feats being? On the one hand we're out in the middle of nowhere, so not much in the way of shops to buy items. On the other hand we're out in the middle of nowhere, so not much in the way of shops to buy the things one would need to craft an item. There's also the question of how much downtime the PCs would have in which to craft items. I know KM builds in dead time to give the kingdom time to grow, but... well, this is turning into another question.
3) Will you be using the Downtime system from Ultimate Campaign?
4) At the moment he has Devotee of a Dead God because it's flavorful and it gives him Diplomacy as a class skill but it looks like we've got a good amount of coverage in the Diplo department, so I might go with Valashmai Veteran instead, demonstrating that this isn't his first rodeo in the jungle and to get Perception as a class skill. Thoughts on our Diplomacy coverage or applicability of either of those traits?
5) Re: a potential civil war. Come on, everybody wants the crazy wizard muttering to himself in the shadowy corner to be king. You know it, I know it, Acavna knows it. Too bad she doesn't care about us mere mortals, regardless of your delusions about her taking a personal interest in you. We're all just ants to her. Ants!
I'm assuming the 25 point buy includes the level 4 ability bump. Is this correct?
Yep, RAW.
How useful/necessary do you see Item Crafting feats being?
As useful as you make them. There will be lots of downtime.
Will you be using the Downtime system from Ultimate Campaign?
There's going to be lots of downtime, but I can handle it without adding a lot of extra rolls to my life.
Thoughts on our Diplomacy coverage or applicability of either of those traits?
You can never have too much Diplomacy, but play what feels right.
Re: a potential civil war. Come on, everybody wants the crazy wizard muttering to himself in the shadowy corner to be king. You know it, I know it, Acavna knows it. Too bad she doesn't care about us mere mortals, regardless of your delusions about her taking a personal interest in you. We're all just ants to her. Ants!
...and that's the origin of the second King of Biting Ants.
Regarding combat and long turns - I read a recruitment post for another game where the gm was planning to take everyone's actions and resolve rounds on a group initiative type arrangement. Bit of gm fiat involved but on the face of it seemed like a reasonable improvement on waiting for each person to post at the appropriate point in initiative order.
What I do is everyone posts actions in the order that they read the thread, and then I resolve everything at the end of the round in initiative order once I have all the actions. It puts slow people at a bit of a disadvantage, because they're less able to react to faster characters, but that's realistic and they should have thought of it before becoming slow.
what are we talking about in regards to HP. Full at 1st level, half +1 from then on or will we be rolling?
Is 6,000 gold just a use as you would like, or do we have limits on individual item cost?
what are we talking about in regards to HP. Full at 1st level, half +1 from then on or will we be rolling?
Roll or take average, player's choice.
Is 6,000 gold just a use as you would like, or do we have limits on individual item cost?
Buy whatever you want but keep in mind you're going to need lots of supplies. You're setting up camp for an indefinite amount of time in the jungle of Mwangi, after traveling for weeks also through the jungles of Mwangi. You'll want lots of consumables because until you build one you might not be having the opportunity to head to town. Lots of food and feed for any animals is a must. Camping supplies. Ammo. Anything you use up.
I've decided, for several reasons, to skip my first planned encounter for the game and instead post a prologue with a sort of summary of it so we can jump right in to the kingdom building/the 8th PC being in the party.
Anyway DO NOT reply to it. I will post a second gameplay post that will mark the start of the actual game.
Okay I posted the gameplay. Feel free to read it and, again, please do not post yet. I'll make it very clear when the game has officially started (and it will be once the characters are done to start).
For the curios there was going to be a fight between arriving and climbing the stairs, but planning it for 8 people the fight started to feel like something that was just getting in the way of the game we're trying to play so I dropped it in favor of the prologue. It would have been nice to have you guys earn the resurrection a bit more but it wasn't worth the time investment, especially with one PC unable to participate.
Don't think that just because you didn't play it out I'm not still subtracting the supplies used up during your journey. I'm still evil.
Here is (the almost completed) Wilhelm. I just have to finish up with a few bits of crunch and finalized his personality and appearance.
How many animals can I Call and train? I can Call Animal and Wartrain Mount to get them into a corral, then use Handle Animal to train them.You'll have to see in game. You'll be able to have some wicked cool cavalry by the time you get to the point of having armies.
Actually, I was asking about how many can I start with? Training animals for a 4th level druid consumes two spells and time, but zero gold. How about one?
cheers
Ah nuts :). Hope you guys have an amazing game. Captain if you have some time I'd like to get some thoughts on my attempt to make Shams more compelling. As a writing exercise it's always awesome to get feedback.
Shams Al-Badri is the youngest son of a noble priestly family who have been dedicated for generations to the Dawnflower Sarenrae. He is by every measure lucky, the baby of a rich house in a prosperous city, indulged by his older brothers, adored by his parents and older sisters, and with the kind of charm and talent with songs and poetry that makes it easy to gather a retinue of loyal friends. His entire family in one way or the other is involved in the church of Sarenrae and he joins in enthusiastically recognizing how fortunate he is and giving thanks for the charmed life he leads.
This is during the daytime however, at night he has always had dreams of a silvery full moon shining in full radiance over a mysterious city, as beautiful as his own desert oasis one, but in a completely different and almost alien way. Shams is not aware that these dreams have any significance, he kinda just assumes that everyone has dreams of similar strength and potence and loves exploring the city during his sleeping hours. Lately though the dreams have been getting even more vivid. And they have been changing. Where before there was serenity now the dreams are becoming choking and frightening. Monstrous claw marks are apparent on the once smooth marble of the buildings, he hears breaking glass behind him to turn and see a beloved buildings vandalized. Worse he has started to see a demonic sun, evil and cruel slowly rising in the sky threatening both moon and city.
His family and friends note that he is getting withdrawn and haunted and even started avoiding the daily worship of the sun goddess. He can’t explain to them what he is going through and how his dreams have started taking over his waking hours and they start to think he’s going mad. He obsessessivly reads everything he can find about ancient cities and the power of the moon. Finally he can’t take it anymore; He resents how his dreams have made it impossible to leave his perfect life and how the vision of the sun in them is completely unrecognizable to the truths his family has always known but he can’t ignore them any longer. Without word or explanation Shams sells everything he owns and sets out to the spot on his maps that his dreams are leading him to.
On the front of the box:
He had everything anyone could want. But he gives it all up to follow the dreams he has started to hate.
Fckin sweet! Will finish up my PC today.
2 questions:
can my ape companion carry a backpack(he has 3 int) to hold my stuff?
if my hd are d6, when i take average hp, is the die 3 or 4?
Congratulations to those that made it in. I'm a little sad that character selection is already done, but I'm glad to see their will be a waiting list as I am most definitely still interested and this will give me a bit more time to get a character concept flushed out.
Crunch is done, just need to get some more gear, deciding on it with the remaining gold, and hp.
Is our resident Coalition Dictator the only one with Kingdom builder experience? That actually kind of works for me, it's not a system where mastery improves the experience overmuch. I'd rather you build stuff because you like the idea of it rather than choosing what gives the most pluses, and having a soul-less plus mine of an empire.
can my ape companion carry a backpack(he has 3 int) to hold my stuff?
He could even without an Int of 3, but now he won't try to take it off constantly.
if my hd are d6, when i take average hp, is the die 3 or 4?
4, like PFS.
Actually, I was asking about how many can I start with?
I'd really rather you to this kind of stuff in-game, but if you simply must you can start with one. Maybe the rest died in the hard trek over.
deciding on it with the remaining gold
Food, food, food. Just getting to the prologue is going to burn through two weeks of supplies.
So when we left Sargava, we knew we were going, not just to restore an old temple, but to build a settlement there as well, is that correct? I am just curious as that would most definitely change the way I would devote the wealth that I have.
On the bright side, I think I finally have my class figured out. 4 levels of Ranger with the Freebooter and Skirmisher archetype.
Looking forward to it. Still working on crunch and equipment, I should be done tonight after work.
So when we left Sargava, we knew we were going, not just to restore an old temple, but to build a settlement there as well, is that correct? I am just curious as that would most definitely change the way I would devote the wealth that I have.
You know you're there to restore the temple, and you have inklings that there's something more to it. Some of you will have more or less of an idea what the actual plan is, you'd know whatever your character had to know for them to decide to come, but the full extent of the plan doesn't become clear to anyone until the events of the prologue. The primary drive up until this point has been to resurrect the dead goddess, and that you're all keenly aware of. It's one of those situations where you don't have much of plan from that point, the goal has clouded your vision.
It's up to you just how much you knew. It's not unreasonable to assume you would have known that the idea is to establish a city.
4 levels of Ranger with the Freebooter and Skirmisher archetype.
Skirmisher is cool, but that's kind of too bad since you have the one Ranger concept in the history of the universe where it would have made sense for him to have been granted divine spells.
For those still working on their characters: let me know when you get close to finishing. The first scene is going to be a conversation between the PCs, so we don't need everything 100% finished before we start, just your personality/backstory. Maybe we could start a bit early and people can finish their stats as we do the first non-combat, no-NPCs scene.
The campaign info tab is bursting with maps now, for those interested.
You know you're there to restore the temple, and you have inklings that there's something more to it. Some of you will have more or less of an idea what the actual plan is, you'd know whatever your character had to know for them to decide to come, but the full extent of the plan doesn't become clear to anyone until the events of the prologue. The primary drive up until this point has been to resurrect the dead goddess, and that you're all keenly aware of. It's one of those situations where you don't have much of plan from that point, the goal has clouded your vision.
This is both for CM and the other players. We just went through a weeks long trek through the jungle and plan to stay here until we fix up this temple or die in the attempt, pretty much. Would it be reasonable for us to have hired hirelings?
Porters, laborers, wood and stone workers or maybe engineers/architects to assess the state of the temple building, guards, scribes to make maps and keep the journal of our effort, animal handlers and animals, guides who aren't PCs and maybe know the local tribes better than just being from Sargava, cooks for a large number of people, maybe adepts or experts with Heal to take care of the general health of the camp/caravan, that kind of thing.
I'd be willing to reserve some of my 6000 gp to pay for hirelings if other PCs want to pool resources here. Dependent on CM's permission, of course.
I was actually thinking very much along the same lines. Hirelings or even slaves (I know, I know, questionable moral ground here... but come on, my guy grew up a pirate, I think he is fine with slaves lol)
Also, what about wagons in a caravan type excursion, with trade goods, and bulk food sources? I know it adds complication, but if we are going to do this thing... how well thought out was our plan?
Would it be reasonable for us to have hired hirelings?
It turns out that only crazy dreams fanatics are willing to take on a mission this suicidal (wanted: tradesmen for indefinite stay in Mwangi Expanse. Experience killing serpentfolk an asset, but not required). The bread bakers guild, in particular, was unnecessarily rude about the whole affair.
Once you have a settlement set up you can attract all sorts of talent with gold, but this particular mission is limited to those foolish enough to answer Acavna's call.
Now if you want to completely throw money at the problem you could lure a few wealth-seekers with you, but it's going to cost you a lot more than the standard hireling fees, and they expect to be compensated for the trip as well.
Remember: you wouldn't be the first religious group to wander into the expanse because your god told you to only to never be seen again. You know you're the PCs, but the Baker's Guild doesn't.
I know it adds complication, but if we are going to do this thing... how well thought out was our plan?
Not as well thought out as an excursion of this magnitude should have been, but you guys have been preparing for weeks if not months.
Bringing trade goods isn't a bad idea either. You should probably have some wagons and pack animals, or at least wagons you can hitch to your various mounts and animal companions.
Monkey-wagon! Adorable and deadly.
slaves (I know, I know, questionable moral ground here... but come on, my guy grew up a pirate, I think he is fine with slaves lol)
I don't know how well that'll go over with King Paladin. If you want slaves it looks like you're the first member of Team Julius. I might get my war yet.
But a monkey-wagon sounds totally viable.
As the DM, I rule the monkey-wagon 100% viable.
But you're right, mules and things are better off with saddlebags.
Okay I made the discussion thread. I also summarized all the really pertinent information.
@Capt
Thanks for the one trained animal. My character building is slow going. He might not be combat ready until Monday, but I can nail down the essentials.
You keep posting about food. We're going to trekking through the jungle. I haven't calculated my Survival check yet, but taking 10 I should be able to provide for a number of extra people. The bounty of the jungle is abundant!
I also have kingdom building experience. Not mastery, mostly familiarity.
EDIT Druids are proficient with natural weapons for claws and bites. Would you allow that to replace the requirement of Improved Unarmed Strike, in order to take the Improved Grapple feat? Saurian Druid gets a rake attack, which can only be used in a grapple. Without Imp. Grapple, it's almost useless.
cheers
Alright, here is Kierk, all statted up, and filled in. I am only missing gear, as I was interested in how the above conversation would fill in. (Side note, what are the stats and cost of monkey wagons? /sarcasm) I will hopefully get the gear finished tonight.
Capt, you convinced me to bypass the skirmisher, and just stick with a Freebooter ranger. Which means, spells for me! (once a day, but hey, better than nothing) Also, Favored Terrain is technically level 3 (I would assume in the middle of Kierk's psychotic serial killer thing...) So jungle might not work, but if he had been having the dreams up until then... maybe? Just wanted to check in with that one.
If, theoretically, I have slaves, and then in a few levels take the leadership feat, could I free my slaves to become my cohort(s)/followers?
Finally figured out how I am going to play Kierk mechanically as well, looking to go with a more switch hitter role. Looking to be a heavy damage dealer in either case, but I don't want to just barrel into battle either. Both of my Freebooter's abilities, give bonus' to my allies, so that should be helpful. We have a pally, a monk... and any other melee? In any case, martial characters will benefit most I would assume. (By the way, I only counted 7 characters you listed on the final list, not 8?)
I'm trying to think of things we'll probably need in bulk. Antixoxin, antiplague, trail rations, water, rope, animal feed, maybe tents or some other kind of shelter.
Speaking of animals, CM, is there any limit to the number of animals a single person can Handle at a time? We've only got one guy who I foresee having the skill, our druid.
Maybe we could summarize for each other what our PCs relevant skills would be. My guy has every knowledge skill at a minimum of +8 and if I have the money I'll spring for MW tools to bump that to 10. He speaks Polyglot and has Diplo at +8, so could work as a backup to the backup diplomat in a pinch. Plus maxed out Spellcraft, obviously, because wizard.
If we think it's necessary, he could probably justify a point in Profession: Engineer to be able to assess the structure of the temple as we find it.
I haven't calculated my Survival check yet, but taking 10 I should be able to provide for a number of extra people.
Yeah but you move more slowly. Better to save that for when you've made camp.
Also, Favored Terrain is technically level 3 (I would assume in the middle of Kierk's psychotic serial killer thing...) So jungle might not work, but if he had been having the dreams up until then... maybe? Just wanted to check in with that one.
Well if this was a proper AP you'd have started at level one ready to make the journey to the temple, so presumably you gained at least a few levels on the trip over.
If, theoretically, I have slaves, and then in a few levels take the leadership feat, could I free my slaves to become my cohort(s)/followers?
Sure, if you don't mind followers who hate you.
(By the way, I only counted 7 characters you listed on the final list, not 8?)
Because I forgot the secret character isn't a secret anymore. It's Thomas Ackermann, Silas Hawkwinter's character from the past.
EDIT Druids are proficient with natural weapons for claws and bites.
I'll let you sub out Combat Expertise as an alternate prereq, but the Improved Combat Maneuver feats are supposed to be one step deep into the tree.
Speaking of animals, CM, is there any limit to the number of animals a single person can Handle at a time?
It's a move action to give orders to an animal, so there's a limit to how many animals are useful at one time.
If my permissive style of DMing is taken advantage of, and you start to bog down combat with a million f!+&ing ape attack rolls, I'll just hit you with RP ramifications. Having too many semi-wild animals roaming your town leaves me a lot of opportunities for that kind of stuff.
Edit: on the other hand, if you have proper facilities for that many animals, you could make an animal army. All you need to do is apply the army size modifier to the group based on how many animals of the same type you have and they're ready to wade into battle.
Edit: "Negotiations have broken down. Release the battle apes."
Edit: Spending 5 BP to upgrade the battle apes weapons to "Even Angrier".
It's a move action to give orders to an animal, so there's a limit to how many animals are useful at one time.
If my permissive style of DMing is taken advantage of, and you start to bog down combat with a million f*#~ing ape attack rolls, I'll just hit you with RP ramifications. Having too many semi-wild animals roaming your town leaves me a lot of opportunities for that kind of stuff.
I wasn't thinking of using Handle Animal in combat, I was wondering whether a single druid could control a whole pack train of mules without help.
Edit: on the other hand, if you have proper facilities for that many animals, you could make an animal army. All you need to do is apply the army size modifier to the group based on how many animals of the same type you have and they're ready to wade into battle.Edit: "Negotiations have broken down. Release the battle apes."
Edit: Spending 5 BP to upgrade the battle apes weapons to "Even Angrier".
I will do everything in my power to insure that this happens.
I was wondering whether a single druid could control a whole pack train of mules without help.
I don't see why not; they are magic forest people.
I will do everything in my power to insure that this happens.
RAW dawg. Kingmaker is awesome.
Edit: For the record: I am pro-abstracting 100 apes into an army. I am anti-bringing 100 apes to every PC-level combat.
having discovered his Azlanti heritage, Julius has changed his name to Orsano, and forsaken any surname in the Azlant style. since it turns out he cannot name his father in any case, this is all to the good.
edit - after a bit more reading, never mind on the performance feats front!
i was wondering how you would feel about treating the other PCs as an audience who need to be swayed to meet the feat requirements
It would depend on the situation. There would certainly be times when that would make sense but I think a lot of the times they'll be on his side. But they would count any time NPCs would count.
There will also be lots of people living in your town eventually, so you'll be able to sway them to your side. An audience of soldiers could make for an interesting evening.
Alright, Kierk is done, gear and all. If you want to double check, that would be great!
Side note, I still have 1100 gold and not sure where to spend it. I was contemplating a pavilion tent if anyone wants to room with me, and I figured that could be used in terms of building the settlement and such up. Let me know if I need anything else, or if we as a group want to buy anything going forward.
Do we know where we are meeting? I presume that we meet our fellow dreamers somewhere, plan our expedition and off we go, or are we meeting at the lost temple?
Do we know where we are meeting? I presume that we meet our fellow dreamers somewhere, plan our expedition and off we go, or are we meeting at the lost temple?
Reading gameplay will answer some of those questions. Read discussion first for context.
You met in little pockets all over Sargava, but I imagine you came together as one maybe in Eleder and then embarked from there. You took a sort of round-about route to make sure to avoid Usaro. If you could take that place out and free up that river route it would be way safer for people to make the journey to your city.
And with this Wilhelm should be done.
awesome first two rolls. Too bad about the 1 but you still come out better off.
Urzan is mostly done. Need to do equipment, which defines his appearance, so a Gameplay post must wait.
He qualified for Arcane Strike with his Aasimar spell-like ability.
He has an 18 Wis, so plan his council position accordingly.
My gaming is spotty on the weekend. Family first.
cheers
Urzan would make a boss Marshal. He'd be like Tarzan: Texas Ranger and he'd add his Wisdom bonus to the Economy, everyone's favorite stat.