Doug M's Way of the Wicked (Inactive)

Game Master Douglas Muir 406

That's actually a very clever plan! There's just one small problem.

The ship isn't making any stops. He's delivering you and the weapons to the bugbears, then ferrying you to just south of the border for the infiltration of the fortress.

It does not have to be in a bar. They could take a keg off the ship and drink away. A nice beach and a campfire perhaps.

So, some discussion of neutrality: Chaotic Neutral could be played as one of the coolest and most interesting alignments. In practice, though, it's pretty much always played as one of the dumbest and most annoying -- to the point where, when someone announces that they plan to play a CN character, I sigh inside.

We'll leave aside for the moment the question of how to play CN right. There are two common ways to play it wrong.

One -- probably the most common -- is to play it as "I can do whatever I feel like doing". I think for a lot of players this isn't so much playing an alignment as a failed attempt to be anti-alignment. I mean, the D&D alignment system is hardly immune to criticism; there are many other ways to describe a character, and some are probably better. (Though from a gaming POV, the D&D system has some interesting deep strengths.) Some people just don't want to be bound. And I could be sympathetic to playing CN as a protest. But it's usually a vague, poorly thought out protest, a rebellion not so much against the alignment system as against constraint generally: I don't want to be forced to play a consistent character, I just want to be able to do whatever I feel like doing /right now/.

That's annoying, but the other common failing is even worse. That's to play Chaotic Neutral as, woo, RANDOM! See, I'm just going to come up with a series of actions and gestures for my guy to do, unconnected by any theme or personality! Because my character's personality IS that he's, woo, RANDOM!

...yeah, this is one of those seemingly clever ideas that breaks down really quickly in actual play. The RANDOM! character is pretty much always a complete PITA, both for the DM and the other players.

As noted above, it doesn't have to be this way; it's possible to play a CN character who's interesting and cool. But it seems to be harder than it looks.

Er - was this discussion of CN for this thread?

I agree that it is usually played one of two ways. Chaotic Dumb, or Chaotic Annoying. I am in one campaign where the player is actually playing a CN character quite well - it is an Inquisitor of Gorum and is being played as you would expect, first into the fight, not always with consideration for others. Other than this, most CN aligned characters I have seen are just annoying.

"Chaotic Dumb or Chaotic Annoying" sums it up rather well, actually.

-- Zimu asked about neutrality a while back. See, I don't forget.

So, does anyone want to talk to Nimpy? Or shall we just move on to the next thing?

That's actually a very clever plan! There's just one small problem.

The ship isn't making any stops. He's delivering you and the weapons to the bugbears, then ferrying you to just south of the border for the infiltration of the fortress.

That's what I basically remembered from our instructions.

We have a set destination, and why I was trying to get the group to think up ways of getting him further ashore.

Also, if he thought Edmin or any of us had a large sum of money ON us, well I doubt we would even make it to shore. The premise here is draw him inland with a promise of wealth, that is NOT on us and readily available to us currently.

Perhaps the bugbears have some wealth, and good strong booze.

-

We simply create a premise and monetary reward of our choosing to lure him further inland.

My proposal is someone with a good Bluff, the Judge perhaps, state that our 'masters' have a new mission, one that starts immediately after this one ends. It would require the captain to meet yet another emissary of our 'masters' perhaps a half a mile inland of where we are to dock.

Of course the amount offered on the table will be staggering and impossible to resist, but still, 'realistic'.

We can even Summon an eagle or other avian in the distance and pretend it has a new message for us, one that Jax can forge, to further the deception and to peak the captains interest.

Or I steal his Trident and he can either lose it or chase me on land.

Or We set the damn boat on fire, and stand on land and tell him we did it and let him chase us

If nobody wants to talk to the halfling, I'll assume you fob him off with evasive answers of a vague and plausible nature, and move on.

I can make very brief, partial and none vital conversation with the halfling, without lying but without giving any real information either.

Xen has NO desire to talk to the halfling. He is a poor liar, and the halfling smells. He would much rather talk with Zimu, or the dark and mysterious Edmin

The Judge is interested in talking with the halfling. I would like to know what he knows about the captain's strange connection with the ocean. And where his regenerative powers come from.

The Judge also wants to know if the first mate is a threat, or just a jerk.

i think dm is saying that someone needs to actually ASK him a question, rather than just say "i want to know this and this"

The next few days are going to be very busy for me. I will try to keep the posting rate, but feel free to NPC Tohram rather than waiting.

i think dm is saying that someone needs to actually ASK him a question, rather than just say "i want to know this and this"

In general, yes please. You don't have to actually RP it if you don't feel like it, but you have to say "I ask" or "my character asks" or "The Judge demands the halfling tell him" or some equivalent.

[crickets]

I am back. Actually, back more than ever; I should have a lot of time to post over the next few weeks. So, feel free to jump in.

Sorry, I was away for this weekend at a family thing and not near a computer~!

[crickets]

I was hoping to implement a plan that would draw the captain away from the sea.

I was hoping the group would get behind it. The plan would have to happen BEFORE they arrive at Seal Island, who knows what plans the captain may have planned for us there.

Cуровую will get the Judge to approve it and ask Jax for help (forgery). I'm waiting for input from the group but want to get this done before DM pushes the story forward.

Also, I requested the Judge question the captain further regarding Seal Island, and use further Sense Motives.

The Plan, input from the others of course welcome.

Look up some noble that is well known to be wealthy, exceedingly so, one known even in the north where the captain comes from.

Know 1d20 + 9 + 2 ⇒ (14) + 9 + 2 = 25

Once we find a candidate forge a letter from them saying that they require the services of a fast but very discreet ship and captain.

The offered price is 15,000 gold with 2,000 gp offered up front.

Three requirements

No questions asked.

The ship can not make stops on its return trip, it will be provisioned heavily with food and water, plus some extra 'refreshment' for the officers, a few hours after docking, once the captain agrees and lands.

The captain and his first mate have to meet with an emissary of the noble, over a fine drink, to make plans and arrangements.

Location, about 30 minutes inland of where we dock.

After we have Jax (under Guidance) forge the letter, the Judge Summons an avian, it arrives bearing the note and (under Eagles Splendor) the Judge makes the offer (that hopefully the captain can not refuse).

Any more points to add?

I think pulling ashore anywhere in the middle of this country without geography skills is a bad idea. We may end up dealing with the Mitra army/clergy/etc.

On top of that, we know nothing about the relationship between the captain and the cardinal. The Cardinal is a scary fellow--would you want to take a mysterious offer by a legitimate noble when you're a cutthroat evil pirate who has already been told by a very scary person to complete a certain job?

-- Okay, I see where you're going with this. But "location, about 30 minutes inland of where we dock"... you're not docking anywhere until you reach Bugbear land. Right? Then you'll make a second short trip south below the Wall.

Now, you could definitely do this to tempt him into a meeting at the end of the trip. But you're probably going to have to wait until the end of the trip (or nearly).

I think pulling ashore anywhere in the middle of this country without geography skills is a bad idea.

It seems like every party has a skill that nobody takes. In this case, it's Knowledge [geography].

On top of that, we know nothing about the relationship between the captain and the cardinal. The Cardinal is a scary fellow--would you want to take a mysterious offer by a legitimate noble when you're a cutthroat evil pirate who has already been told by a very scary person to complete a certain job?

Here's what you know about the relationship.

-- Captain Odenkirk has already carried out a number of missions for the Cardinal. The Cardinal was broadly pleased with the Captain's performance: from his POV, Odenkirk has many admirable qualities. Up to now he has been a highly reliable subcontractor with a performance-oriented management style who has consistently delivered on time and within budget. If the Captain had been able to control his greed, there probably would have been a place for him in New Talingarde.

-- However, Captain Odenkirk has learned too much about the Cardinal's business. (How? You don't know.) As a result, he has increased his fees, and is seriousl considering a blackmail attempt, threatening the Cardinal with exposure. (How does the Cardinal know this? You don't know, but you can probably make a good guess or two.)

-- Thus the Cardinal has ordered you to kill Captain Odenkirk and all of his crew. (Why doesn't he just "bamf" in himself and do it? Because he has people -- you -- for that. If you can't handle the job, well...)

Stuff you don't know about the relationship: what exactly the Captain knows; whether he's already talked to anyone else; whether he's working with anyone else; whether he knows that you're planning to kill him; whether he's planning to kill you.

FWIW, he /seems/ not to suspect you of anything. But maybe that's just a very high Bluff skill at work...

I gotta say I am at a loss here. I have no idea how to handle him. I will follow the plans of whomever.

Sorry I just am stymied by this one.

His is probably linked to a water devil or dark water type god. I am for following the plan of get to the north then get him on shore, letting short round lose on him then killing them both. We still need to reach our destination and In this game I am not a sailor.

Well, at the moment it's pretty simple: you just have to decide whether you want to join the hunt at Seal Island or not.

I am real busy this week. Sorry for the short posts.

When we get to the final delivery, I can just start summoning fire Elementals and setting the ship ablaze. Either he is a fish, or eventually he will come ashore.

I think pulling ashore anywhere in the middle of this country without geography skills is a bad idea. We may end up dealing with the Mitra army/clergy/etc.

On top of that, we know nothing about the relationship between the captain and the cardinal. The Cardinal is a scary fellow--would you want to take a mysterious offer by a legitimate noble when you're a cutthroat evil pirate who has already been told by a very scary person to complete a certain job?

Those are none issues.

Sigh. It's hard to explain sometimes when not face to face, we will NOT stop anywhere but our predetermined dock. We just need to draw the captain further inland. Is that more clear?

Who is to say the lord we pick is not in league with the cardinal? The captian does not have to know every detail, just that the noble is an ally to our cause and you just roll high Jax. I rolled my knowledge Nobility above.

I have not read further than Jax posts because I am crunched for time today.

Guys, I have my final Final, so posting will be light until to tomorrow, wish me luck.

Good luck, Kate!

Doug M.

-- Okay, I see where you're going with this. But "location, about 30 minutes inland of where we dock"... you're not docking anywhere until you reach Bugbear land. Right? Then you'll make a second short trip south below the Wall.

Now, you could definitely do this to tempt him into a meeting at the end of the trip. But you're probably going to have to wait until the end of the trip (or nearly).

That was always the plan, we were never going to stop until we got to our destination, we just need to draw him off the ship.

I would like to implement this plan (operation Landlubber) before arriving at Seal Island.

May I have your assistance Jax (forgery) and the Judge (bluff and Summoning an avian).

We just need to decide if this happens at the first dock (my choice) or the final stop.

We can bring the first mate if you want in the message we create, either to 'promote' him as we kill the captain or kill him outright as well if he does not 'join' our cause. But then we are left with a crew without officers.

In the note we will use a noble that has long traditions using money as their power base, it will seem that we are meeting their envoy inland, because they have just now concluded an alliance with the cardinal. They do need to meet the captain, and in the message he is offered 2,000 gold up from and the remaining of the 15,000 gold after they return with another individual (important to the noble and the cardinal).

___

The Plan, input from the others of course welcome.

Look up some noble that is well known to be wealthy, exceedingly so, one known even in the north where the captain comes from.

Know Nobility 1d20 + 9 + 2 ⇒ (14) + 9 + 2 = 25

Once we find a candidate forge a letter from them saying that they require the services of a fast but very discreet ship and captain. THIS MAN IS AN ALLY TO THE cardinal, and is returning to the port where we started this tour.

The offered price is 15,000 gold with 2,000 gp offered up front.

Three requirements

No questions asked.

The ship can not make stops on its return trip, it will be provisioned heavily with food and water, plus some extra 'refreshment' for the officers, a few hours after docking, once the captain agrees and lands.

The captain (and his first mate?) have to meet with an emissary of the noble, over a fine drink, to make plans and arrangements.

Location, about 30 minutes inland of where we dock. THIS IS THE SAME DOCKS WE ARE HEADING TO.

After we have Jax (under Guidance) forge the letter, the Judge Summons an avian, it arrives bearing the note and (under Eagles Splendor) the Judge makes the offer (that hopefully the captain can not refuse).

Any more points to add?

I hope that's clear now.

Good luck, Kate!

Doug M.

DM I started this thread for you.

Aww. Thank you!

I posted on the Find Players forum a while back, and got nothing. I will be quite surprised if there are any here. But thank you!

All the while, I was thinking 'well we are all evil with our own agendas, and our roster ranges from a goblin head that explodes in flames to a healer who uses Cthulhu's squid ink for healing, but at least we are NOT clubbing baby seals'.

I guess well get that ethical road bump out of the way shortly.

Cy - here is my biggest concert, which is why I put forward the drinking/gambling idea. You idea is very complex and requires a lot of hope/risk.

What if the Captain knows this noble? What if the captain picks up on the subterfuge? How would this avian creature know were we are? Why would the noble be willing to pay so much from something way up north where there is nothing of real value?

We know that the captain likes to drink. We know that Edmin likes to drink. We know that the captain likes to drink on land, not on the ship. All we need to do is have Edmin drink and play drunk, not much of a stretch, and then get the two into a drinking bout with some monetary reward (captain is greedy).

This requires much less subterfuge and chance for problems. The dark prince is a big proponent of subterfuge, but not when that has a high risk of failure. I think they complex formula with all the forgery and deceit leaves a great deal of potential for the Judge detecting something.

I think your slightly over thinking this.

O_o

I don't get why there is all tne resistanance Judge. I am truly a bit confused. Sorry.

May I please try a last time then?

I really don't know how to further explain my reasons. I have laid them out as best I can.

How is this plan any more complex than when we were boarded?

The captain will NEVER MEET THE NOBLE'S envoy, it's a ruse to get him off the ship!

If the captain knows the noble then he knows he has deep pockets, points for us yaay!!

The subterfuge is minimal, Jax will have a forged document, then you bluff your way to it's validity. There are obvious magical spells that can send an avian to us. Not every spell is in the book, but call it Great Animal Messenger if need be - a poor man's Sending, never heard of it? I bet the captain could care less.

Or we produce the document, say our instructions were NOT to open it or give it to the captain until today. Fair?

Offer less money if you want, but as DM has said, greed is his weakness, I'm hoping a large sum will give us in game bonuses to the bluff. And the 'no questions asked' was the reason I made up for the high sum of money. I asked for other input.

The drinks idea is all there, did you see that? There is a promises of a bounty of alcohol for the officers of the ship to be brought on board with supplies.

If the captain thinks Edmin has money on him right now, then Edmin will have his throat slit in the middle of the night.

Finally, and most important if the captain has plans of betraying us, then this high sum of money will buy us enough time to get him inland where we get a chance at him before he makes his move on us.

Fine tune the plan as you deem best, but let's come up with one before Seal Island.

I do see Judge's point on the complexity. There are a lot of things that can go wrong with it and I feel getting the captain onshore won't be difficult/require such a series of events. We know he's likely to go hunting for a drink once we land in port from what other sailors have said. If, before landing at our final destination, it seems this won't work well then we can try out that plan. I definitely feel we should wait until the final port before rocking the boat/trying to kill or attack the captain.

Apropos of absolutely nothing:

http://www.openculture.com/2013/06/listen_to_freddie_mercury_and_david_bowi e_on_the_isolated_vocal_track_for_the_queen_hit_under_pressure_1981.html

I understand that David Bowie is counted among the most celebrated and gifted singers, artists and musicians of the past few decades and is a icon of at least two generations.

That being said I would still rape 1980's Bowie if i was within 10 ft from him.

Okay, it looks like we don't have consensus on a plan yet. While continuing the discussion here, can we move along with gameplay?

Doug M.

Bring on the seal clubbing!

While we're away, perhaps it's time for Morum and Dren to play.

In the captain's cabin.

Meanwhile on the gameplay thread, Cуровую's romantic seal clubbing ride is interrupted by a flying nightmare.

DM has had some free time because Kosovo tv is mostly reruns of That 70s Show.

Could be worse. It could be reruns of 70's shows.

Can you cast Levitate on a small boat, not to make it fly but just to make sure it does not tip over?

Good question! Let's see. "Target: you or one willing creature or one object (total weight up to 100 lbs./level)". So, at 3rd level you could lift 300lbs.

Unfortunately, the boat and its contents (three humans plus two dead seals) weigh considerably more than that. Yes, even if you throw the seals overboard... the three of you weigh more than 300 lbs. Nice idea, though.

For future refferece, I was not asking to lift the boat or the passengers, the spell would target the boat only, cast to keep the boat itself stable, I would not try to lift it up, or carry the passengers.

Something like shoring up a large window during a storm, but not the entire side section of a house the window is connected to.

If the weight of the passengers have to factored in, then that would not work, but I was not thinking in those terms.

You could cast it on Edmin to reduce the weight in the boat.

DM I just met two very cool and amazing German girls, we're hanging as a group tomorrow, what a fun German joke I can tell them.