[Closed]1 v 1 Pathfinder tournament

Game Master caster4life

Salacious: Because if your build is a one trick pony, you don't want it spoiled. For example, if you are an archer, now the next guy you fight knows to put up wind wall if they win initative

Ok. That makes sense. Seeing the outcome, even if at the end would still be entertaining.

I'm missing the point buy max on the stats. 25 point buy?

It's 15 point buy, I recall.

I'll give this a whirl if I can.

Edit: spellcasting services? I assume normal buffs from others are out, but what about spells with permanency cast on them.

15-pt buy. I'll put all everything in campaign info when I get a chance since I know it's hard for people to hunt down clarifications in my posts.

One more thing I'd like to clarify regarding pets/minions.
Is there a limit on use of Simulacrum, outsiders that have been 'recruited' for multiple days, binding undead, etc?
(combined limits? different limit for each?)

Thanks!

Players may bind up to 1 hd per CL of creature(s) and that is all they ever get. You can't bind one 10 hd outsider to get something from it then bind another one to get something else. Also, the binding process will be run through PM with me as there are chances that outsiders will resist binding, seek revenge, etc. If you attempt 6 bindings and only succeed on the sixth, you might have a few unhappy outsiders mess with you.[/quite]

I'm going to be dropping out of this recruitment: I came up with a build idea, but after doing some theorycrafting with it I got tried of it, and without anything else I really want to submit, I will retire.

For those curious, it was a titan fighter/Brute Vigilante along with the Wyrwood race to use larger weapons while gaining a host of immunities.

Overseer of the Arena wrote:

Players may bind up to 1 hd per CL of creature(s) and that is all they ever get. You can't bind one 10 hd outsider to get something from it then bind another one to get something else. Also, the binding process will be run through PM with me as there are chances that outsiders will resist binding, seek revenge, etc. If you attempt 6 bindings and only succeed on the sixth, you might have a few unhappy outsiders mess with you.

thanks for that, upon rereading I see it says "creatures" not just "outsiders" xD

You can purchase a permanent buff if you pay the cost of spellcaster services and permanency.

Yes I'm getting a lot of questions about bringing minions in. Two clever suggestions would, by RAW afaik, allow a player to bring infinite, seriously powerful minions to the fight. I'm working through how to rule this but for now the deal will be that unless a source of minions, e.g. animal companion class feature, is already strictly limited in number, then it falls in the "miscellaneous minions" category ehivh I will limit to 1 hd per CL with no swapping out. Feel free to Pam me opinions or post them here but I'm becoming increasingly convinced this is needed.

So you can have 1 10 hd bound outsider. Or 2 5 hd simulacra. These kinds of options. Animated and controlled undead already have strict hd limits so I think those are fine to use. I reserve the right to revise my decision if someone shows me I've overlooked completely gamebreaking possibilities.

I'm going to be dropping out of this recruitment: I came up with a build idea, but after doing some theorycrafting with it I got tried of it, and without anything else I really want to submit, I will retire.

For those curious, it was a titan fighter/Brute Vigilante along with the Wyrwood race to use larger weapons while gaining a host of immunities.

Understandable. Recruitment is open for a while longer so if inspiration strikes, feel free to submit a build.

You can purchase a permanent buff if you pay the cost of spellcaster services and permanency.

Yes I'm getting a lot of questions about bringing minions in. Two clever suggestions would, by RAW afaik, allow a player to bring infinite, seriously powerful minions to the fight. I'm working through how to rule this but for now the deal will be that unless a source of minions, e.g. animal companion class feature, is already strictly limited in number, then it falls in the "miscellaneous minions" category ehivh I will limit to 1 hd per CL with no swapping out. Feel free to Pam me opinions or post them here but I'm becoming increasingly convinced this is needed.

Can I help with rules-lawyering? :D

I know that the ceiling is 50 feet, but what are the dimensions of the rest of the arena?
Also, what are the walls and floor made out of?
Will the arena have traps or objects of concealment?

Also, I am assuming level 10 wealth. Is this okay?

Overseer of the Arena wrote:

You can purchase a permanent buff if you pay the cost of spellcaster services and permanency.

Yes I'm getting a lot of questions about bringing minions in. Two clever suggestions would, by RAW afaik, allow a player to bring infinite, seriously powerful minions to the fight. I'm working through how to rule this but for now the deal will be that unless a source of minions, e.g. animal companion class feature, is already strictly limited in number, then it falls in the "miscellaneous minions" category ehivh I will limit to 1 hd per CL with no swapping out. Feel free to Pam me opinions or post them here but I'm becoming increasingly convinced this is needed.

Can I help with rules-lawyering? :D

What do you mean? I'm very open to input on much of this but I need to make the final rulings. The discussion thread is intended for people to give input on rulings but that's mostly been in this thread.

Or you can help me comb through people's builds and check the math but only if you're willing not to compete since you will have seen builds.

Announcement: I have decided that the finals will be best 2 out of 3. This will reduce the impact of luck and one-trick builds but it would be impractical to run all the rounds this way.

Also, I am assuming level 10 wealth. Is this okay?

I have updated the campaign info to contain all the relevant information I've hashed out (through helpful clarifying questions) so far. The map of the arena there will answer the question better than my words. No traps in the arena.

Level 10 wealth is correct.

ScegfOd wrote:

Overseer of the Arena wrote:

You can purchase a permanent buff if you pay the cost of spellcaster services and permanency.

Yes I'm getting a lot of questions about bringing minions in. Two clever suggestions would, by RAW afaik, allow a player to bring infinite, seriously powerful minions to the fight. I'm working through how to rule this but for now the deal will be that unless a source of minions, e.g. animal companion class feature, is already strictly limited in number, then it falls in the "miscellaneous minions" category ehivh I will limit to 1 hd per CL with no swapping out. Feel free to Pam me opinions or post them here but I'm becoming increasingly convinced this is needed.

Can I help with rules-lawyering? :D

What do you mean? I'm very open to input on much of this but I need to make the final rulings. The discussion thread is intended for people to give input on rulings but that's mostly been in this thread.

I meant pointing out holes in their "RAW" arguments. I'll point out the error in any/all chain-gate arguments based on the current Gate spell wording on d20pfsrd... (see the discussion thread for details, sorry I was a little long-winded)

I appreciate that. It happens in this case that neither of the examples were built upon gate but your analysis is useful and perhaps there are holes in the others. I think some bans I've put in place will work but perhaps we could discuss the specifics for the fun of whether or not it was legal in the first place.

So you mentioned you'd be allowing "crafting and other reasonable prep ahead of time." How much time should we assume we've had before the day of the fight? For instance, if someone is stockpiling spells with a permanent duration.

Good point, crafting heavy builds might need multiple months of prep, is that "reasonable"?

Let's say 90 days prep time. That should be plenty of time to craft your entire inventory using magical crafting feats. Mundane crafting will also be accelerated such that you can create 300 gp worth of progress per day if you can pass the skill check. I think current mundane crafting is WAY too slow.

90 days sounds good. Prevents people from spending 1250 gp and 100 days on crafting a hundred level 1 spell scrolls xD

That would also cut down on some other silly builds. I know you already nerfed it for this, but similacrum has a 12 hour casting time

It doesn't nerf them much. With 62K gold it's just saying that you can't spend more than about 75% of it on crafting magic items. Unless you're a dwarven wizard or have a valet familiar in which case you can spend all of it if you wish. I suppose a character doing some sort of flurry of hybridized Artokus's fires might be grateful for the increased crafting speed.

Currently I have logged complete or partial submissions from the following people (if I missed you or mischaracterized the state of your submission, please let me know):

ScegfOd
Avr
Jace Nailo
Dwilhelmi
Vrog Skyreaver
The Lucky Halfling (still working)
Saasha
Michael MacComb (revising)

You have until Feb 16 to send me a completed submission but earlier submissions are helpful as it will take me a little while to work through all the builds. If we get exactly 8 submissions, the selection process will be very easy. If we get a few more, I'll have to decide between picking the best 8 or running a slightly longer tourney.

Just confirming, no custom magic items, even if they fall within the standard math?

Not to be rude, but that's a peculiarly worded question...
You mean like crafting a sword with constant True Strike for a cheap +20 to-hit weapon? Or something more tame?

No custom magic items. The standard math is often quite unbalanced.

ScegF0d, I was thinking something much more tame, something like a Frostbrand that was a different type of sword then a greatsword. However, that answer works out just fine for me.

That sounds downright reasonable. Oh well. Looks like I'll have to find a premade item or two...

How are the combats going to actually function? Will the combatants PM each other, or will everything filter through the GM? Will we use a shared map where we will both know each other's position? If I cast a spell, will my opponent see what I cast and any associated die rolls, or will they just receive a description of the visible effect? Wondering if stealth / perception / scouting type things are going to be a factor, or if it is pure might vs might.

Combatants will start opposite each other in the arena, which means there will be a wall between them which they can circumvent to one side or the other (see campaign info with map). Everything will filter through the GM. Each combatant will be seeing a map that shows what they can see. Opponents will only perceive the visible, audible, etc effects of spell-casting. Further, they will only see your appearance. They won't immediately know your class, etc.

BTW, do scrolls above minimum CL count as custom items as well?

No those count as standard and are fine.

I have an idea. I just have to finish converting it from PFS theorycraft.

I've has a busy week, but will have my character to you by sat.

Oh, when did Synthesis summoner get the ban? I was looking forward to killing one.

Haha. That was a few days ago. It seems pretty conventional wisdom to ban it, not just because it's very strong but because people often do poorly managing the mechanical complexity, which is a headache for me.

Lol, every "OP" build I've ever seen was actually not following the rules xD
It's definitely too hard for most.

edit: I just remembered the #1 offense: Eidolons have a max # of attacks. Not max natural attacks. Max attacks. The maximum number of attacks is 5 for an eidolon of a level 10 summoner, just BTW.

I have pretty strong opinions about the synthesist archetype, but that's just cause I think it's a neat idea and want it to work, but if you really start looking at the archetype, you start to see all of these rules interactions that don't have obvious resolutions.

Yeah, Synthesist needs a GM ruling right out of the gate xD

Personally, I'd go with this: if you get the Eidolon's physical stats, then you get its physical limitations as well (max attacks being one of them)

I guess a normal summoner would also need a ruling one way or the other at 16th lvl xD

So, just wish to mention this, as I have built a summoner previously (for an irl game), and...

Max. Attacks:
This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks* that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.*

* Emphasis mine.

Here is the link to the prd so that you can see that I am not simply b.s.ing this.

This is a small example of the problems with understanding the synthesist summoner people tend to run into. I'm just avoiding those off the bat. Perhaps next time I run one of these I'll allow it and be down for dealing with it.

Just to remind everyone, recruitment closes at 5 pm on Friday, Feburary 16th. My goal is to roll initiative on February 17th, depending on how quickly I check all the builds and select our participants.

Unfortunately, the message boards don't support dice rolling so I will be making all the rolls. I will tell you when it is your turn. You declare your actions, I make the rolls and let you know the detectable results your character would see. I'll keep a record of what the rolls were in the battle log if you want to know after the battle but I think it's helpful if a player doesn't know if their perception check was a nat 1 or a nat 20. This will reduce meta-gaming, which is hard not to participate in when the goal is winning more than RP. To save time, you may post what your character will do with the remainder of their turn should an action or series of actions succeed or fail in a way your character would be able to detect.

E.g. "I attempt to jump over the conjured pit. Should I succeed, I attack the wizard with my earthbreaker. Should I fail, I attempt to climb out of the pit."

So, just wish to mention this, as I have built a summoner previously (for an irl game), and...

Summoner wrote:

Max. Attacks:
This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks* that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.*

* Emphasis mine.

Here is the link to the prd so that you can see that I am not simply b.s.ing this.

Thanks for that. Exactly what I'm talking about. So many rules and hard to read things xD

edit: Ah, maybe I was thinking of unchained eidolons:

Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional attacks. Attacks made with weapons, including those granted by a high base attack bonus, are counted against this maximum.

Gosh, original summoner is even more broken than I thought xD

You are very welcome.

So, my new submission is finally in. I hope those of you in the front row brought ear plugs, because any combat I'm in is going to be loud.

Earplugs for 3 cp XD

We're getting close! Are we still missing any submissions?

We are sort of missing some submissions. By my count, the following people have expressed some level of interest but haven't yet submitted a build:

Voodoomonkey
Eveyo
Groundhog
The Lion Cleric
Albright Kensington
Dodekatheon
Salacious Crumb
Avoron
Thralleon

It's fine if they don't all submit by the deadline as I already have 9 submissions, which is more than I need to run the tourney. If they all end up submitting, I'll pick a top 16 and run 4 rounds instead of 3.

The Lucky Halfling also submitted before the deadline.

Recruitment is now closed.

I will check the remaining builds and make my final selections as fast as I can. IRL matters make this take a little longer but hopefully I'll be ready to start in the next few days.