Have you ever argued with your friends which build would win a 1 v 1 fight? Have you wondered how each class could face off against another? If so, this tournament is for you.
Up to eight players that I estimate to have the most competitive/interesting builds will be chosen to face off against each other in 1 on 1 fights to the death. After the first round, only half the competitors will remain and the results of the first round (but no specific build details) will be disclosed before the second round. Then the finals will occur between the 2 surviving competitors and the winner of the finals will be declared the 1 v 1 champ.
Builds will be level 10 with standard wealth (62,000 gp). All officially sourced material that can be found online is allowed. Crafting and other reasonable prep ahead of time is allowed.
Battles will occur in a 100 ft by 100 ft arena with a 50 ft by 50 ft square wall in the center to prevent competitors from having immediate line of sight and line of effect to each other. The arena is 50 ft tall and the walls are 3 ft thick hewn stone. You may attempt to destroy walls if you wish but leaving the 100 ft by 100 ft by 50 ft arena counts as a forfeit.
DO NOT post your build here on the forum. Submission and discussion of specific builds will occur via PM, as will combat.
General questions about what is allowed and expressions of interest should be posted here.
Still reading through, but you can include me among the ones that would find this game interesting. Mechanics often inspire my character as opposed to the other way around, so this is a game I would like to put a character together for. I'll see what I can come with.
Edit: How would you like ability scores handled?
Still reading through, but you can include me among the ones that would find this game interesting. Mechanics often inspire my character as opposed to the other way around, so this is a game I would like to put a character together for. I'll see what I can come with.
Edit: How would you like ability scores handled?
Good question, thank you. Stats will be a 15-point buy according to the standard rules.
Recruitment will be open until February 16th to allow time for well thought-out submissions.
Another question would be, how are you determining hit points?
Another question would be, how are you determining hit points?
Thanks. Full hit points from hit die at level 1 then hit points from hit die/2+1 at subsequent levels. This is equivalent to the average from rolling the hit die rounded up.
So d6 gives 6 hp at level then 4 hp/level, d8 gives 8 hp at level 1 then 5 hp/level, d10 gives 10 hp at level 1 then 6 hp/level, d12 gives 12 hp at level 1 then 7 hp/level. Bonus hp from toughness feat, favored class bonus, con modifier, etc all apply as well.
interested as well. I'll send you a PM.
Interested. I’ll get something up.
Good to see the interest so far. Rule detail: Loser is the first one to die. Winner is the other contestant. So if you die then a creature you'd already summoned kills your opponent then resurrects you, you still count as losing. If you are instead only at negative hp and the creature then kills your opponent then heals you, you win. This is a rather obvious definition of winning/losing but I wanted to clarify up front.
Do we get any traits?
2 traits
All officially sourced material that can be found online is allowed.
Does this mean Paizo-published materials, or are third party publishers such as Green Ronin, Dreamscarred Press, Rogue Genius Games, etc. allowed.
Are there racial restrictions or are any races with published player character racial stats allowed?
And, I assume no on these, but what about templates and/or mythic?
Prestige classes?
All officially sourced material that can be found online is allowed.Does this mean Paizo-published materials, or are third party publishers such as Green Ronin, Dreamscarred Press, Rogue Genius Games, etc. allowed.
Are there racial restrictions or are any races with published player character racial stats allowed?
And, I assume no on these, but what about templates and/or mythic?
Prestige classes?
Thanks for the questions. No third party. Paizo-published only. All paizo-published playable races allowed.
No templates and no mythic.
Prestige classes are allowed as long as you qualify for them. It's up to you whether or not they are better than more levels in your current class.
Clarification: Arena has normal light.
Interested to see what all people come up with.
I'm realizing some things I should clarify, including unchained classes are allowed. No synthesist summoner.
Arena is under normal light conditions.
Arena is a dungeon and therefore counts as underground for terrain purposes.
You will begin the fight after having prepared spells, etc for the day. You can cast day-long buffs etc but will be unable to cast short-term buffs right before the fight. Minimum duration 1 hour.
Both players will be placed in the arena and immediately roll initiative. Whoever wins initiative may cast a spell, begin searching for the other player, etc.
Should you win, your build will be reset entirely between rounds in terms of hp, spells slots, daily powers, equipment expenditure, etc to how your character started the day. You will not be able to loot your opponent.
Please format submissions in the following general manner to make it easier for me to check the build. Every build will be checked very carefully so I can ensure to the best of my ability that all fights are fair.
Traits: trait 1, trait 2
Starting stats: Bought stats, racial bonuses/penalties
Racial traits: Racial trait 1, racial trait 2, etc.
Level 1: Everything gained at this level. Class taken. HP gained. Class features gained. Skill ranks invested. Favored class bonus allocated. Feat(s) gained.
Level 2: Ditto
Level 3: Ditto
Level 4: Ditto, stat increase allocated to ______
etc to Level 10.
Retraining: This feat replaced with that feat at level x costing y gp.
Equipment: Item 1 (cost in gp), Item 2 (cost in gp), etc.
Total gold spent: z gp
Stat totals: Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha
Bab total:
Save totals:
CMB:
CMD:
Skill totals for skills with bonuses besides raw ability mods:
Skill 1: Ranks, +3 CS (if applicable), +x trait (if applicable), +y ability mod: total
etc.
AC (tch, ff)
Saves: F R W
Init:
Speed:
Special senses:
Perception:
Attacks: attack type q with bonus +x for 1dy+z damage with crit range ____ and multiplier ____
Miscellaneous notes:
Sorry for the info dump but as someone who likes to play to win I know I enjoy having all potentially relevant info at my disposal.
I'm in
Feel free to use the discussion to provide input on certain issues. Right now I'm proposing discussion over arena lighting, summoned/bound creatures, etc. Everyone is going to be working with the same rule set so I'm up for a little discussion before I settle on definite rulings for some of the trickier rules.
Would you be fine with us submitting a Google Docs link to our character as long as the document follows the formatting you gave? It will make it easier to format (add links, bullet points, and the like) and adjust the character.
Would you be fine with us submitting a Google Docs link to our character as long as the document follows the formatting you gave? It will make it easier to format (add links, bullet points, and the like) and adjust the character.
Yes that's completely fine.
Very Interested Dot
Quick question: do we have to submit PC races only, or can we submit monsters?
What happens if we *make* the opponent leave the arena?
PC races only.
Great question, Groundhog. What do we think, guys? Can you win by forcing the other player out of the arena? I'm inclined to say no, ending the fight without killing the opponent results in a forfeit. But I'm open to opinions and I like the cleverness of it.
Well played sir, I was formulating a "St. Valentines Day Massacre" tourney myself, starting at level 1 and leveling up every round you passed...well played indeed! In the future you should have random environmental factors such as an ice template or volcano that spews lava at random intervals in a dice generated grid section! That being said, I think this tournament should be to the death...forced movement will put a spin on it that players may feel unfair if someone comes up with something that's almost impossible to counter and is able to sweep the board clean in 1 round
Is there max RP or are we all going to build Noble Drow
VoodooMonkey, that sounds fantastic. Where will you be hosting this? I have definitely considered random environmental elements and find myself wanting to host this event multiple times with different elements, such as environmental randomness. Interesting point on forced movement. Let's see what a few others have to say.
Max RP 20.
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My opinion on the matter of the forced movement is that people should not be allowed to win the battle simply by pushing their opponent out of the arena, at least on the first occasion. However, a compromise rule could be that you win if you manage to push your opponent out of the ring three times. Only three things should cause a forfeit in this case:
*Decisions to either leave the arena under our own power (or the power of creatures that you control, such as animal companions, eidolons, summoned creatures, undead, etc...).
*Causing yourself to leave the arena through an effect you know will cause you to do so (such as teleporation).
*Not attempting to re-enter the arena after your opponent forcibly removes you from it (counts as deciding to leave) (in a as quick as feasibly possible, and if your opponent is either blocking the gap or threatening it then you do not have to reenter until they are not).
Overall, it seems to me to be a lackluster strategy, as you would first have to break a hole in either the wall, ceiling, or floor, followed by managing to position your opponent between you and the gap, and then somehow getting them through the hole three times.
My opinion on the matter of the forced movement is that people should not be allowed to win the battle simply by pushing their opponent out of the arena, at least on the first occasion. However, a compromise rule could be that you win if you manage to push your opponent out of the ring three times. Only three things should cause a forfeit in this case:
*Decisions to either leave the arena under our own power (or the power of creatures that you control, such as animal companions, eidolons, summoned creatures, undead, etc...).
*Causing yourself to leave the arena through an effect you know will cause you to do so (such as teleporation).
*Not attempting to re-enter the arena after your opponent forcibly removes you from it (counts as deciding to leave) (in a as quick as feasibly possible, and if your opponent is either blocking the gap or threatening it then you do not have to reenter until they are not).Overall, it seems to me to be a lackluster strategy, as you would first have to break a hole in either the wall, ceiling, or floor, followed by managing to position your opponent between you and the gap, and then somehow getting them through the hole three times.
Ok so essentially another vote for "no win by forced exit." Ring outs can be an interesting mechanic and maybe I would include that in another tournament but it looks like the best call for this one is to exclude ring outs as a win condition.
I wont be hosting this...this is your thing now...I was just lamenting the fact and cursing the irony of the timing...sorry if I "stepped on you" in the process.
I think there are other things you have to consider pitting melee vs caster and ranged vs melee, maybe you consider to number lattitude and longitude and make it random where they appear. Effects like "pinning" an opponent from ranged increments, as well as close range abilities that won't let someone of lesser melee ability escape, have to be considered if you are "mixing it up"
Otherwise in certain situations it comes down to the die roll of initiative and to an exaggerated extent, "you may as well roll initiative and see who wins"
If someone can't get to or get away from someone who has the appropriate advantage it somewhat makes it pointless-You start 50 ft away, Ranger vs Melee-Ranger has everything in "Pinning Shot" abilities so all he has to do is keep melee pinned down and finish him off.
Melee makes initiative and puts ranged build adjacent...ranged build has no way to escape...food for thought
How is the arena lighted?
VoodooMonkey, those are all valid considerations. I think that the set up of the arena will help keep it from being just an initiative fight. Regarding other variations, I would love to run competitions like this with variations somewhat regularly if I have time.
The arena has normal lighting from permanencied light cantrips at regular intervals.
Players may bind up to 1 hd per CL of creature(s) and that is all they ever get. You can't bind one 10 hd outsider to get something from it then bind another one to get something else. Also, the binding process will be run through PM with me as there are chances that outsiders will resist binding, seek revenge, etc. If you attempt 6 bindings and only succeed on the sixth, you might have a few unhappy outsiders mess with you.
Sorry to keep peppering you with questions, but how tall is the cieling?
No problem. 50 ft.
Character submitted.
Asking for clarification in some areas, and ruling out questions in others for everyone interested...
!. Assuming no Gestalt (Ruling out for clarification)
@. We may multiclass as much as we want to level 10-we do not have to be a pure 1 class
#. No variant multiclassing
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!. Correct. No Gestalt.
@. Correct. Multiclassing allowed.
#. Correct. No variant multiclassing allowed.
Interested, sometimes a bit of powergaming can be fun! I do have a question:
How should alignment related abilities work? Its a bit difficult: if everyone is playing good characters, paladin's smite no longer functions, which removes a large part of the character. However, if everyone was evil, then the paladin would be much more powerful. Obviously, those are two extremes, but considering they are possibilities, how should they be handled?
When you say Crafting is okay, does that mean if I have the feat I can have the related item(s) for half price?
Any limits on the amount of gp spent on a single item?
Interested, sometimes a bit of powergaming can be fun! I do have a question:
How should alignment related abilities work? Its a bit difficult: if everyone is playing good characters, paladin's smite no longer functions, which removes a large part of the character. However, if everyone was evil, then the paladin would be much more powerful. Obviously, those are two extremes, but considering they are possibilities, how should they be handled?
Alignments are only restricted by the players' builds. If you want to be a cleric of Asmodeus, your alignment must be LN, LE, or NE. Similarly, restrictions apply to druids, monks, paladins, anti-paladins, barbarians, etc. Fitting their build includes fitting things like spells that they cast. You're going to have trouble convincing me your wizard is true neutral if he's bringing a bunch of undead to the fight. Players can pick any alignment that is consistent with their build, actions, etc.
When you say Crafting is okay, does that mean if I have the feat I can have the related item(s) for half price?
Any limits on the amount of gp spent on a single item?
Yes as long as you are capable of passing the relevant craft check while taking 10. If you can't do it by taking 10, I'll roll for you to see if you succeeded but I doubt anyone wants to go that route.
No limit on gp per single item. Just your overall gp limit at level 10.
One thing I just realized, you said at least one hour for the prefight buffs, does that mean if I want to use an ability/spell before we roll initiative, I can just subtract one hour from its duration?
One thing I just realized, you said at least one hour for the prefight buffs, does that mean if I want to use an ability/spell before we roll initiative, I can just subtract one hour from its duration?
Yes that's correct. I consider it reasonable for casters to have their day-long buffs already up, e.g. mage armor. This is representative of how characters spend their adventuring days.
Do you mind terribly if I send in my first file of my character in a different format? I'm finding the one you have specified terribly hard to work with for character thoughts. I will send in one that complies with the requested format, but would like to get a working file in quicker, in case we hit the cap.
Also, I'm having some trouble with sending you a DM for some questions on how you feel some rules interactions apply. Could you possibly send me a message so that I could respond to it?
That's fine. I'm trying to message you but apparently Paizo doesn't want to allow that. So strange... working on it... I assume that you have the "Members of paizo.com may send me private messages" box checked under privacy settings in my account?
Very necessary clarification: Blood money is 100% not allowed in creating your characters equipment, minions, etc.
Prestige classes are allowed as long as you qualify for them. It's up to you whether or not they are better than more levels in your current class.
What about prestige classes with special requirements?
Prestige classes are allowed as long as you qualify for them. It's up to you whether or not they are better than more levels in your current class.What about prestige classes with special requirements?
Not sure what you mean by special requirements. Do you have an example?
I have always wanted to do this! I understand why builds are private, but why is combat private?
Salacious: Because if your build is a one trick pony, you don't want it spoiled. For example, if you are an archer, now the next guy you fight knows to put up wind wall if they win initative
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Yes. I will publish combats in the game play thread once it won't affect the outcome of the tourney. I expect it will be quite interesting for all to see how things went down and informative if we ever do this again.