@All
Any of you is familiar with temporary HP rules? Such from Rage and False Life? Are they spent first?
Have you looked at the rules for siege weapons? I'm not super familiar with them, but it seems like those rules might be a good place to start for arial bombardment issues.
Given that we're going to start having regular access to flight from now on, i'm sure it will be an issue in the future.
@All
Any of you is familiar with temporary HP rules? Such from Rage and False Life? Are they spent first?
Rage is a special case.
"The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points."
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Temporary hp are added on top of the characters hp total. They come off first and cannot be healed. These can come from spells (false life, aid and so on) and abilities, such as some monster drain attacks.
Increasing con, either through spell (such as bears endurance) or ability (such as rage) increases the characters hp total. This can be healed normally. But when the effect ends the hp are reduced by the amount of gain. This can be very dangerous to barbarians. If a barbarian loses conciousness, her rage will end and so her hp score will drop 2 pts per level. So a sixth level barbarian will lose 12 hp, which can result in near instant death.
Hope that helps
Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects.
Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their size and the distance they have fallen. Table: Damage from Falling Objects determines the amount of damage dealt by an object based on its size. Note that this assumes that the object is made of dense, heavy material, such as stone. Objects made of lighter materials might deal as little as half the listed damage, subject to GM discretion. For example, a Huge boulder that hits a character deals 6d6 points of damage, whereas a Huge wooden wagon might deal only 3d6 damage. In addition, if an object falls less than 30 feet, it deals half the listed damage. If an object falls more than 150 feet, it deals double the listed damage. Note that a falling object takes the same amount of damage as it deals.
Dropping an object on a creature requires a ranged touch attack. Such attacks generally have a range increment of 20 feet. If an object falls on a creature (instead of being thrown), that creature can make a DC 15 Reflex save to halve the damage if he is aware of the object. Falling objects that are part of a trap use the trap rules instead of these general guidelines.
Table: Damage from Falling Objects
Object Size | Damage
Small | 2d6
Medium | 3d6
Large | 4d6
Huge | 6d6
Gargantuan | 8d6
Colossal | 10d6
Relatedly, the idea of killing a treant by dropping a tree on it seems hilarious to me. : )
So we'd only have to drop a feather token tree from 40 feet up to get the max 20d6 damage. Nice.
I think we should dry this. It's too funny not to.
Never mind rocks, trees fall and everything dies.
About the falling rules, If I understand it correctly:
Tree Feather Token: Basically a Tree, let's assume that, for brevity sake, it's a huge one.
Dropping it from 30ft high: Deals 6d6 Dmg. But it requires a ranged touch, that have range increment of 20 feet. So, to drop it at 30ft it would be the dropper ranged atk -1.
Between 30 and 149ft the damage is the same.
Above 150ft, the damage doubles, in that case, 12d6. But with a range increment of 20 feet, and that means a lot of penalties, if dropped over 150ft.
And above all that, if the enemy is aware, he gets a reflex to take half of the damage.
Did I get everything right?
A couple of things are off:
1) Every range increment past the first is a -2. So at 0-20', it's -0, 21-40' is -2, etc.
2) No reflex save if the thing is specifically 'thrown' at the enemy. Basically, it sounds like that is really meant for instances where the object is not being aimed, so it sounds like it is either a touch attack OR a reflex for half, not both.
- - - - -
Also, if I were DMing, I'd make the argument that using a feather token like that is awkward to aim (since you don't know how the tree will grow) and suffers a -4 non-proficiency penalty (unless you want to take the exotic weapon proficiency [Feather Token: Tree] feat). That's just me though.
That tree is a lot bigger than huge. It is listed as a 5' wide, 60 foot tall oak with a 40 wide canopy.
It weighs over 40 tons.
Note that this is only the rough weight of the trunk, and doesn't count the weight of the branches or leaves.
I also agree that Nahia's mechanics look fair.
Get some Klatchen Coffee
That tree is a lot bigger than huge. It is listed as a 5' wide, 60 foot tall oak with a 40 wide canopy.
It weighs over 40 tons.
** spoiler omitted **
Humm...
Notice please I was using the size for convenience sake and for that example.
Get some Klatchen Coffee
I have no idea what is Klatchen Coffee, but thanks for the suggestion.
Discworld brew.
That tree is a lot bigger than huge. It is listed as a 5' wide, 60 foot tall oak with a 40 wide canopy.
It weighs over 40 tons.
** spoiler omitted **
Humm...
Notice please I was using the size for convenience sake and for that example.
Gotcha.
I can see how 5 feet wide but 60 feet tall would be hard to classify with the typical pathfinder sizing system.
When faced with those issues I usually compare them to the kinds of weapons a large creature. Something like "if a giant were to use this as a great club, how big would the giant have to be?"
In this case it would have to be a colossal creature, which makes it a colossal object.
That's my reasoning anyway. Its not like the rules give clear rules for this stuff.
No worries, I've restored the previous version.
I'm not sure what you are trying to do.
Fiendish boon allows you to gain the service of a fiendish servant. Described using the Summon Monster III spell.Only, once invoked, the duration is permanent and you can only gain the service of a single creature.
The way I see it, it does not allow you to ‘summon’ to yourself your servant whenever you want. But you may be trying to do that using another aspect of the game, to which I’m unaware.
I'll wait a bit, until I understand what Rose is trying to do, before posting the trees actions.
Feindish Boon says "once per day, as a full round action, an Antipaladin my magically call their servant to their side."
I'm drying to summon pyre to me so I can heal it next round.
Feindish Boon says "once per day, as a full round action, an Antipaladin my magically call their servant to their side."
I'm drying to summon pyre to me so I can heal it next round.
Oh, Okay,
i missed that line. Duh, I think I need more sleep. >.<
I'll update after I get home from work.
Hey all!
I'm in a wedding this following weekend, and after Thursday I won't really be able to reply until probably Monday night at the earliest. Feel free to NPC me if necessary, assuming anyone survives this fight. : )
Guess we'll have to hurry if we want to get on with having you drop a tree on a tree.
@Rose
Even battle trained horses, don't know how to use 'withdraw', although they can learn it.
Because of that, you need a move action to try: ‘Control Mount in Battle’ but with no tests since he is trained in battle.
Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for horses or ponies trained for combat. - No need for rolls, but it's not a free action to control the horse.
After considering this, you’ll notice that even without need for any test, you already used a move to control the horse, and you don’t have any more actions, to retrieve and give Pyre the feather token.
--
Had posted in gameplay. Deleted there, and moved to discussion.
Hmm.
Directing a mount to attack, or to stop attacking, is a free action. So, I could tell the horse to attack Hound for free. It would move toward Hound. Next round I can tell it not to. (this strikes me as a particularly pragmatic anti paladin style thing to do)
I wouldn't imagine a horse would need to be trained to Withdraw. Horses aren't stupid. If they are told to retreat, and there's a way to get clear without being hit, a horse would do that. Skeletons can Withdraw. Oozes can Withdraw. Horses should certainly be able to.
If I'm going to have to use the Control a Mount rules, then I'll do that and just have the Archon take the charm with it's Move action, rather than have Rose give it away with hers. The overall action doesn't really change much.
In the long run, the action economy stuff decided here is just going to determine when the tree gets dropped.
If I was being super tactical, I'd have Pyre teleport right above the treant and break the charm itself next round.
I wanted to give Nahia the tree-throw because its cool and I believe in sharing the spotlight. If it's going to take an extra round to give it to her and get her in position, it probably isn't worth the added time.
If the action economy rules are going to prevent Nahia from getting the charm and getting into place by the end of this round, I'll just change my post and have Pyre go straight to the drop zone.
Humm, please...
Just play..
It gets boring that each of your posts comes loaded with small, mostly banal, action counting.
Trying to win every advantage by micromanaging each possible and imaginary action is taxing, please, stop that.
Think about this: You have primarily two actions; a standard and a move.
Actions In Combat
When posting an action, fit it in one of those categories.
You don’t need to describe each possible free action that you might do or not.
Skip those small stuff and keep it where it matters:
Ordering the horse to move away, while I draw a potion and give it to Pyre.
See? Accomplished the same thing and there was no need for keeping tabs of actions.
Edit: I'm lenient when it comes to small actions, except when there's a lot of counting around, or when the player is clearly trying to win every advantage by counting actions.
Mostly, there’s no need to tell where you put your sword while you got that potion from your belt. You should just say you are getting the potion from your belt.
I'm really glad you said that. I despise the action economy rules. They have become more and more restrictive and nuanced over the years, exacerbating the already problematic comparisons between casters and martials.
If you aren't concerned about the bean counting b!$#%!$+ martials have to do to squeeze the most out of their actions, neither am I.
From now on I'll keep it simple.
So what about that Withdraw? Are horses really not smart enough to Withdraw when ordered to retreat?
I'm really glad you said that. I despise the action economy rules. They have become more and more restrictive and nuanced over the years, exacerbating the already problematic comparisons between casters and martials.
If you aren't concerned about the bean counting b#$%@*+% martials have to do to squeeze the most out of their actions, neither am I.
I'm not concerned about bean counting, as you said.
But I'm not allowing either unlimited abuse of actions. Action economy is a pain, but they exist for a reason, which I do not want to discuss.To put it simple, two main actions, the small things between then, don’t need to be counted. But I’ll intervene every time I see anyone trying to get more actions than it’s allowed per turn. Be it caster or Martial.
Also, you can assume the Horse can withdraw. I've re-read the combat training, and while not explicit written, it seems that when trained in combat, the horse knows how to walk away from it, which for me, means exactly withdraw action.
@Nahia
I'm not sure. Did I answered your PM's?
I don't think so.
Ah, okay, thanks.
I've been thinking about it for some days, but I always forgot to answer it.
Answered one. Just remind me if there are any more pending questions.
Wrong? Where?
You are quite mistaken young evil lady.
There's no error to be found. :P
For those wondering, here is the modified monster I used.
Crossed abilities means I removed because I thought it was too much.
LIGHTNING TREANT CR 8
NE Huge plant
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +12
DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 7, flat-footed 22 (+3 Dex, +12 natural, -2 size)
hp 138 (12d8+84); fast healing 10
Fort +13, Ref +3, Will +9
Defensive Abilities electric healing; DR 10/slashing; Immune electricity,plant traits; Resist fire 10
OFFENSE
Speed 40 ft.
Melee 2 slam +16 (2d8+9)
Ranged rock +10 (2d6+13)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks double damage against objects, rock throwing (180 ft.)
Druid Spell-like Abilities (CL 12th):
At will—Plant growth*, faerie fire, greater magic fang (self only)
3/day—call lightning storm (DC 18), lightning bolt (DC 16), protection from energy
1/day—chain lightning (DC 19)
TACTICS
While many types of treants might make an effort to negotiate, or at least try to determine whether or not travelers might be hostile to whatever forest they are living in, lightning treants tend to simply attack first and, quite frankly, not question anything. Using their ability to call lightning storms, these creatures can be a true bane to travelers, especially those that do not recognize them at first.
Lightning treants have an inherent hatred of all humanoids and attack them on sight. If there are more than one or two in a group the lightning treant starts combat with a chain lightning spell and then uses call lightning storm to have further lightning bolts ready; afterward, the lightning treant charges into combat, focusing first on anyone with an axe or other slashing weapon. If combat goes against it, it uses lightning bolt on its enemies, as well as using bolts called down with call lightning storm to heal itself or hurt its opponents.
STATISTICS
Str 28, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10
Base Atk +9; CMB +20; CMD 33
Feats Cleave, Greater Sunder, Deadly Aim, Improved Sunder,Power Attack, Skill Focus (Survival)
Skills Diplomacy +9, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (nature) +9, Perception+12, Sense Motive +9, Stealth –9 (+7 in forests);Racial Modifiers +16 Stealth in forests
Languages Aklo
SQ animate trees, double damage against objects, treespeech
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Double Damage Against Objects (Ex)
A lightning treant that makes a full attack against an object or structure deals double damage.
Electric Healing (Ex)
Electricity damage heals a lightning treant 1 point of damage for every 3 points it would otherwise deal. If the amount would cause the lightning treant to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points--these temporary hit points last for 2 hours.
Animate Trees (Sp)
A treant can animate any trees within 180 feet at will, controlling up to two trees at a time. It takes 1 full round for a tree to uproot itself, after which it moves at a speed of 10 feet and fights as a treant (although it has only one slam attack and lacks the treant's animation and rock-throwing abilities), gaining the treant's vulnerability to fire. If the treant that animated it terminates the animation, moves out of range, or is incapacitated, the tree immediately takes root wherever it is and returns to its normal state.
That's a great enemy. Very unexpected abilities. Awesome stuff.
Hopefully it won't kill us...
I will admit, I was NOT expecting those lightning abilities and that fire immunity. It really kept me on my toes.
@Seren
That tree is a lot bigger than huge. It is listed as a 5' wide, 60 foot tall oak with a 40 wide canopy.
It weighs over 40 tons.
Math: Oak has a density of 760 pounds per cubic foot, and a cylinder that size has a touch volume of 1,100 cubic feet. That means the feather token tree weighs just over 83,000 pounds. (margin for error, based on rounding down and the tapering of the trunk, about two thousand pounds).
Note that this is only the rough weight of the trunk, and doesn't count the weight of the branches or leaves.
Treent: STR 28.
Carrying Capacity: 1,200 x 4 = 4800lbs.
Lifting and Dragging: A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load.
4800lbs x 5 = 24000lbs.
40 tons = 80000lbs.
---
I blame Rose for spoiling your fun.
Grumble, Hound and Rose, and an undead treant together might be able to push/drag it clear. Let me do some math. Give me a bit.
Treant = huge biped, str 28 = drag weight 24,000 lbs
Grumble = large biped, str 24(?) = drag weight 7,000 lbs
Hound, med biped, str 20 (rage, short duration) = drag weight 2,000 lbs
Rose, med biped, str 20 (alter self, long duration) = drag weight 2,000 lbs
Heavy horse, large quadruped, str 20 = drag weight 6,000 lbs
Light horse, large quadruped, str 16 = drag weight 3,450 lbs
Approximate total
44,450 lbs of drag weight.
If we can use ropes, shims, and leverage to create favorable conditions, we can do this.
A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them by half or more.
Hound, didn't we pick you up a pair of Muleback cords, or was that only discussed?
If you have those, we can give them to the undead treant and it will be strong enough to drag the tree by itself.
My Math:
Grumblejack: = 4600lbs
Rose: 1750lbs
Hound: 1500
Horse(Each): 4000lbs
Pony: 750
Treant: 24000lbs
Total: 44600
----
Remember that, for the treant, the condition is not favorable, since he is trapped beneath it.
Urgh, I'm a bit off for the horses, since I did not taken into account the fact they could drag more.
I'm pretty sure Hound picked up Muleback Cords when we went shopping.
If he has them, the treant can use them. That will put it's drag weight up around 84,000 lbs.
The rest of us helping should be able to cancel out the unfavorable conditions.
Since I'm in an evil mood today (mwuahaha, gunna kill you all! <3), let me argue about it:
That's some cool item there.
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn't be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.
That mostly seems to be to be used by characters, which vary from small to medium.
It certainly don't mean that an item created to fit an medium humanoid body would adjust for a huge sized tree-shaped(??) body.With that said, take a look at the item description:
These thick leather cords wrap around the wearer’s biceps and shoulders. When worn, they make the wearer’s muscles appear larger than normal. The wearer treats his Strength score as 8 higher than normal when determining his carrying capacity. This bonus does not apply to combat, breaking items, or any other Strength-related rolls, it only contributes to the amount of equipment or material the wearer can carry.
If we think about it logically, they are just ‘cords’ and the tree is a lot bigger than the cord ‘size’, which means it is not able to wrap around it.
--
Joking aside, I just wanted to see how much would you guys try to free the treant. :P
Got no real issues hand waving the result and saying you were able to do it.
--
No joke this time:
I already said that I don’t keep track of things you get, buy, or aquire, but why you never take into consideration my house rules and shopping rules from the city?
The barge after you leave, continue travelling to an unknown destination.
Grumblejack got out earlier and said he would wait you outside the city. "The tin can's will not be pleased to see Grumblejack." that's what he said before leaving the barge.You go shopping, and you notice that 'common magic' items are easy to find (+1 bonus, core armor/weapons are available)
Other than that, there are some specific items you thought good looking for you and your other allies, and that's what you were able to find:
- +1 Mithral Chain shirt, Shadow Improved
- +1 Heavy Mace, Bane (Giant)
- +2 Defending dagger
- +1 Ice Burst longsword.
- Belt of dwarvenkind
- Staff of Transmutation
- Crystal ball with detect thoughts
- Cloack of Manta Ray
- Chime of Opening
I don’t want to start keep tracking about those things, but I’ll if you continue to ignore it. And if I do, I’ll do a swap over each one inventory and a little rascal devil will simply steal it.
I think its mostly because shopping tends to be boring and time consuming so it tends to be glossed over for all but the expensive stuff. I've never seen any game implement shopping trips very well. It usually just becomes everyone making lists, and a GM saying "yeah, whatever, lets get on with the fun."
In any case, the cords are something Nahia can make in 4 hours with a few bits of leather.
If it wasn't available in town, we can have it by morning.
Edit: The fact that PCs can often just make any gear cities lack tends to be another reason shopping limiting shopping in cities tends to be a moot point. In most games, exactly where the item comes from isn't important so long as the expenditures are tracked.
In this game though, because Nahia and Seren write up such awesome crafting scenes, I think anything that can be made by the party should be. Because of that, I'm totally in favor of your house rules on shopping.
Just notice it already.
Just because the item exists, it does not mean you know about it.
Your characters are not a walking encyclopedia of a thousand different magic items.
I got no real issue with you ‘finding’ the ‘idea’ of the item in the game. But a comprehensive list of: “cool and fun magic items for each adventurer!” does not exist.
Commonly, in my game world, only items from the core exists in a common basis, the rest, the character should think about it, because it’ll become something ‘personal’ for him.
Stop ignoring this and just saying: It’s just a shop, if I can’t buy, I’ll craft.
--
Rose, your answer was fundamentally against everything I believe in a RPG game. :(
Edit: Rose, the first part of your answer, without the edit part, was fundamentally against everything I believe in a RPG game.
I'm actually right with in terms of how crafting and knowledge checks strip some of the mystique out of magic items. Unfortunately, its pretty hard-wired into the game. The skill system, item cost system, and crafting system are all interlinked in a way that makes knowledge of items accessible far before the item would actually be available to characters.
For example-
The DC to know about an item is usually based on the level of the spell used to create the item (with up to a +10 for rarity)
At this point, Nahia can take ten to know up to DC 21 items.
She might not know all of what exists, but she certainly knows enough magical theory to know what is possible to make, especially with low-cost items. Something like Muleback cords, even with a huge penalty to the DC, is within easy range of her skill. She really is a walking encyclopedia of magic items, at least as far as the low-cost stuff is concerned.
If you want to make knowledge of magic items less prevalent I'd recommend increasing the standard DC to know about an item by 5. That will put the checks out of easy reach, but still within reach of taking 20 with the right research materials.