I'm out to dinner for a bit so if you need to DMPC me.
thanks for the heads up but I'll wait for you to post due to the potential dire consequences.
What!? Aurelio, shame on you for breaking Line of sight!
I don't think taunting the other BBEG is going to be effective either
We certainly need one of These
Aurelio's a simple guy: find baddie, kill baddie, find next baddie.
Gotta do what comes naturally.
Well said baddie is covered in spikes so it is like trying to wrestle a giant porcipine while naked.
Aurelio's a simple guy: find baddie, kill baddie, find next baddie.
Gotta do what comes naturally.
Well I can't throw stones. Both Duncan and Grimm died by charging off so I am guilty.
Just worth nothing the Headless Horseman AND the other devils AND the Grave Knight are outside....
It would be nice if we can move this battle along today.
Even though the first claw missed, I noticed you used Vital Strike and have this question from the description.
Vital Strike
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
If the devil used Vital strike would that mean it could only make a single attack regardless if it had two claw attacks?(Meaning no second attack that hit)
Even though the first claw missed, I noticed you used Vital Strike and have this question from the description.
Vital Strike
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
If the devil used Vital strike would that mean it could only make a single attack regardless if it had two claw attacks?(Meaning no second attack that hit)
That is good question and I need to look at rule on that issue. Since it's his natural attack and there may be typo in the AP. Only one of his attacks get the vital strike benefits.
Q: What type of action (standard, full, move, swift, free) does Vital Strike use?
A: (Jason Bulmahn) Vital Strike is an attack action, which is a type of standard action.
Note: Attack Action means it is one of the types of action listed under Standard Actions List. You see that Attack is is one of the types of Standard Actions available others including: Activate Magic Item, Cast a Spell, Total Defense, and Use Special Ability.
The devil has two attacks with his claws as it primary weapon as a standard action.
Natural Attacks
Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.
Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.
Does anyone have any insight on this issue or a rule to point to?
Here is some commentary from one of the designers of AP 30. There is obviously some confusion on how Vital strike works.
Understood. I believed it was using a full attack to get two claw attacks
Aurelio you can recoup the 26 HP from the second claw attack. Paizo appears to have nerfed vital strike. It doesn't make sense why a creature that has two claw strikes would vital strike especially when with such a high attack roll, but there's no reason to lose time over it.
Understood. I believed it was using a full attack to get two claw attacks
There are many low level monsters get two claws as standard action but now need to sweat it.
Aurelio you can recoup the 26 HP from the second claw attack. Paizo appears to have nerfed vital strike. It doesn't make sense why a creature that has two claw strikes would vital strike especially when with such a high attack roll, but there's no reason to lose time over it.
Most nerfs are from angry players getting killed too quickly :D
But if I'd known we'd run into so many barbed devils I'd have made one of those archer paladins!
Aurelio you can recoup the 26 HP from the second claw attack. Paizo appears to have nerfed vital strike. It doesn't make sense why a creature that has two claw strikes would vital strike especially when with such a high attack roll, but there's no reason to lose time over it.Most nerfs are from angry players getting killed too quickly :D
But if I'd known we'd run into so many barbed devils I'd have made one of those archer paladins!
I generally agree with that statement. In reading the message boards the typical question put forth by a player brings the response from other players that the DM is either too inflexible or is lousy. I suspect most of those responses come from players rather than DMs.
The problem with this AP is they made both baddies with vital and/or improved vital strike and spring attack or improved feint which don't jive well with later errata sheet/FAQ. It pretty much squelches the designed AP tactics.
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter and I'm glad it was caught earlier rather than later in the combat.
Well there is a lot of give and take in tabletop, so it's really house ruled on any controversies. The important thing is to keep it consistent.
If one of us was using Vital Strike/Spring Attack it'd be fair for the baddies to do it too. But since we're not I'll take the 26 HP back!
Well there is a lot of give and take in tabletop, so it's really house ruled on any controversies. The important thing is to keep it consistent.
If one of us was using Vital Strike/Spring Attack it'd be fair for the baddies to do it too. But since we're not I'll take the 26 HP back!
Did you check you PM?
Vital strike is it's own SPECIAL attack.
It takes a standard action so no full attack.
You can power attack with it but no spring attack or cleave etc.
Vital strike is it's own SPECIAL attack.
It takes a standard action so no full attack.You can power attack with it but no spring attack or cleave etc.
The real question was can the creature use both his claws attacks and use vital strike on one claw attack.
No.
Multiple attacks (eeven) natural ones are a full round.
I am up for a tactical withdrawal.
Daniel would not want to lose a party member.
I'm going to call it a night. I've a hectic day tomorrow.
I have a busy day today so I won't be posting till late afternoon or early evening.
I am at work so my posting will be light.
I'll be back in 6 hrs.
Gerard goes first but basically I am gonna use POWERFUL JUSTICE so both me AND Gerard get smite damage on Eccardian.
Plus I am gonna greater trip him and full attack him.
Between My 2 smite iteratives and Gerard's opportunistic strike + 1AOO each from greater trip hopefully he dies.
Don't forget Blessing of Fervor which is a kind of haste.
Just to confess I am somewhat upset that Aurelio split from the group to fight the devil. I kow it is a game but we're right here at the end and I hope we don't lose.
I guess that is a sign I need a break, taking stuff too seriosly. Hopefully I'll feel better in a few weeks.
Edit:In any event, Baldwin has been a great DM through it all and has been more than helpful to us. Hope we can game again.
Just to confess I am somewhat upset that Aurelio split from the group to fight the devil. I kow it is a game but we're right here at the end and I hope we don't lose.
I guess that is a sign I need a break, taking stuff too seriosly. Hopefully I'll feel better in a few weeks.
On the other hand, you were the closest person to Aurelio and you did not stay to watch his back. You choose to move up to -B, 5 and apply Bless oil. Unfortunately, the spellcasters were neutralized by the terrain and crafty baddies.
Then Daniel did move up ahead with Gerard which strung out the group.
Regardless, the blame falls on the DM for presenting choices. You really were presented with terrain choices that the crafty intelligent baddies used to their advantage. Unlike most battles where you can overwhelm the baddie and they stay relatively in front of you, these two had a plan to split the group and attack from two directions. A spellcaster paired with each tank would have made this an easier battle.
Edit: Plus it stinks to be at the back of line most of the time. Often most of the fun has happened by the time they get to the action. However, having two potent enemies hitting the front and back almost at the same time makes it exciting for both tanks and the rest of the party.
Out of game/metagame, Gerard won't die because of his Ioun stone but your characters don't know that.
Agreed, you played this pretty well and I choose to follow Daniel at the time. I remember roleplaying me not knowing what was up with Aurelio(leaving to fight the devil) until Eccardian blurted out what was happening. So dice fall where they may
If both tanks fly or waddled into the battle against any of these foes at the same time it would last one maybe two rounds. That would be anticlimactic to say the least.
Well if we all die, then Emily can lead the army from Andorian when she grows up and invade Cheliax to put down Thrune once and for all.
Time for Ultimate Campaign!
Well if we all die, then Emily can lead the army from Andorian when she grows up and invade Cheliax to put down Thrune once and for all.
Time for Ultimate Campaign!
Do you know what is scary, I didn't even know that I already owned ultimate Campaign in the pdf form. I totally forgot I bought it.
I''ll post Mel's action when I get home.
Well if we all die, then Emily can lead the army from Andorian when she grows up and invade Cheliax to put down Thrune once and for all.
Time for Ultimate Campaign!
That would both be great fun and a huge headache.
Euphemia I don't really want to metagame but I will let you swap out one of your 5th level prepared spells for that Banishment bonus spell that you know. If you want.
Suggestions?
I can Mislead and turn Greater Invisible and step awy for healing, or Wall of Stone to wall ourselves in for a few rounds
Or maybe it is time for Ratman!
Edit:Or 5' into the Aclove at C-6 and then use Versitile Channel to heal myself and AUrelio(I can heal in a line)
I believe you have heard this is a barbed devil cleric of mammon, so you would be able to deduce that he has a high will save. Remember, I previously mentioned to you he is SR.
Summoned creatures to help would be beneficial if it's powerful enough.
Andrea can you bing Euphemia?
Okay
Aurelio, since Cure serious Wounds is a third level spell, each potion should cure 3d8+5, so you should have an extra 5 points per potion you drank
Heck I'll boost it to +10 for you. The caster was more potent.
-----
I want to keep this game moving, if Phem doesn't check in which spell doe you all want her to cast?
Looks like i screwed up... being absent. Sorry folks.
Too many rounds have gone by, but... so sad. Gerard has Blade Sense +4, meaning +4 to AC vs. Light Blades (like rapiers). For AC 30.
:(
Ummm.. That is difficult to say. I did message her just a bit ago so hopefully she will be back soon
You mentained Banishment That should have a DC of 10+5(Intelligence)+5(level)=20. Very poor chance. Pribably only fail on a 1 Tossing in holy water and symbols would raise it to a DC 22 and +1 to overcome SR
Baleful Polymorph is an instant removal at DC 20.
Evil Eye can reduce the devil's AC/BaB/Saving throws by -4 for 5 rounds or even just 1 round if it makes the saveing throw(choose one)
Summon Monster 6 can Summon things like Celestial Dire Tigers or Bears to deliever Smite attacks. Or a mass of Lantern Archons to spam light beam touch attacks or a Lilliand Azata for healing, but it takes a round. Maybe if Aurelio steps up
No problem jumping in Gerard. I held it up as long as I could.
Obviously not having all the naunces of the build hurts with DMPC. I did not know about the +4 on AC with rapiers.
Someone restore him (Heal?)!
I believe you have 2 CSW potions for 3d8+10 each
I'm passed out, I think...
I think Daniel took a blow for you so you have taken 42 points of damage from a blow and failed tumble
I'm passed out, I think...
I have Gerard currently at 46 HP and 1 bleed for the weapon. the bleed is from a weapon, not a rogue talent.