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I suspect the problems with the marshal have more to do with the fact that it was a base class knocked out, probably with relatively little testing, for the Minis Handbook. I'll have a look at the class, and see what I think. If I was thinking of an analogue for the aura in terms of how it might work, I might be looking at something like barbarian rage - works for a few rounds in a combat. But if the problem about lack of variety is mostly temporary (i.e. confined to the first couple of levels or so) I will probably leave it as is. There is a psionic base class in the Complete Psionic that has a similar aura-type effect (the ardent, I think) so i will see how that is handled and how comparable it is.
Anyone else out there have a view?
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Well for variety, if i stick with marshal for 20 levels I will know 8 or 16 minor auras and 5 of 7 major ones...
I have no real problem playing it as is, but I think the ability needed toned down with a duration, and knowing more auras was the only balance option I could think of
Otherwise, check out the dragon shaman from PHB2, which is also an aura based base class
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Dragon Shaman in the PHB2 uses auras also. Maybe between that, the marshal and the other class mentioned that uses auras, you could devise a mechanic that would work.
Sounds like the Marshal gets some powerful auras compared to the Dragon Shaman, though, so maybe a bit of Tome of Battle's "regaining manuevers" mechanic could be incorporated. Perhaps Marshals could regain auras with a full-round meditation, and the auras only last X+cha mod rounds(X would be maybe 2 for minor auras and 3-4 for major auras or something like that). That way after each fight the marshal needs to spend a moment reflecting and planning how to inspire his fellows next time.
Just thoughts.
FH
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I think that the idea behind the aura thing is that you're constantly giving orders and advising strategies while we're in combat. It's not that you're just saying one thing to us in the morning and being done with it, you are continually providing your expertise to your allies through spoken commands.
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I think that the idea behind the aura thing is that you're constantly giving orders and advising strategies while we're in combat. It's not that you're just saying one thing to us in the morning and being done with it, you are continually providing your expertise to your allies through spoken commands.
That is the logical view, but it isn't supported by the mechanics in question. Which is why i brought this up.
Like I said, I am content with the marshal as is. The mechanics just don't feel right...
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Okay,
This will sound oddly like power gaming, but that isn't my intent. I am thinking that the Marshal seems somewhat broken with the aura ability.
I get the impression it is suppose to be me leading others to be better as a group then normal. But the aura ability is a constant. As in, since I only have 1 at first level, guess which one I will be using is obvious, so one swift action and it is up until i go to sleep (by choice or hp loss).
I was wondering if you would consider letting me know more Commands (I hate calling them Auras) in exchange for a duration limit, and a more intense activation cost (say a move action instead of a swift, 5 or 10 + CHA bonus rounds duration, and maybe what is on the table + CHA bonus as known auras)
If you don't want to, that is fine too...
OOH, had another thought, maybe the duration could be based of a diplomacy check, it would justify the skill focus: diplomacy bonus feat
Drag, you're reading it wrong. The aura IS up all day, HOWEVER, in order for it to be effective, the others need to be in range of you AND be able to hear you.
The idea is that, during combat, you're issuing commands and praising and all that.
So, it's not as broken as it seems. The fact that you're limited on how many auras you can have is another part that makes it even with other classes.
They get a feckload of skill points and skills, though...
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Heathansson / Hudak - Shoanti Fighter
Vattnisse / Alwyn Agnarrson - Shoanti Cleric
Fatepsinner / Vethran Tallomane - Varisian Evoker
Dragonman / Lo'j - Chelish Marshal
Mothman / Elisile Starbrow - Elven Mystic Ranger
Fake Healer / Dravite Schorl - Dwarven Ranger
Stunty / Unnamed - Human Rogue
Ithuriel / Unnamed - Gnome Bard
Is this a correct listing our team? Updated?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Heathansson / Hudak - Shoanti Fighter
Vattnisse / Alwyn Agnarrson - Shoanti Cleric
Fatepsinner / Vethran Tallomane - Varisian Evoker
Dragonman / Lo'j - Chelish Marshal
Mothman / Elisile Starbrow - Elven Mystic Ranger
Fake Healer / Dravite Schorl - Dwarven Ranger
Stunty / Unnamed - Human Rogue
Ithuriel / Unnamed - Gnome Bard
Damn, this is a big group!
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Actually the aura description I have on me(from Crystal Keep Summary) says:
The Marshal can maintain one Minor Aura –
and– one Major Aura continuously, as long as he/she
is able to communicate with the surrounding allies.
An aura is activated as a Swift Action and Dismissed
as a Free Action. The Aura ends if the Marshal is
Dazed, Unconscious, Stunned, Paralyzed, etc.
The Aura affects all allies within a 60’ radius
(including the Marshal) who can hear the Marshal,
share a language, & have at least a 3 Intelligence.
Which does say I have to be able to communicate with allies in order to maintain the ability. It does not say (and it is poorly written) I have to communicate with them. It explicty says I do not need to take any action in order to maintain the aura, just be able to.
It also does not state the type of radius (which I believe means we assume emanation which would be the same as the aura from a dragon shaman, so that at least makes sense).
Again, I am not trying to pull a rabbit outta my hat and get away with something. If nothing else slap a limit of marshal level + CHA bonus on the duration, and I will have to actively keep it running, and at least that will make sense to me. I don't need more auras to be happy, I tacked those on when I made activating an aura either a move or standard action.
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Drag, you're reading it wrong. The aura IS up all day, HOWEVER, in order for it to be effective, the others need to be in range of you AND be able to hear you.
The idea is that, during combat, you're issuing commands and praising and all that.
So, it's not as broken as it seems. The fact that you're limited on how many auras you can have is another part that makes it even with other classes.
They get a feckload of skill points and skills, though...
Cheers, Sect. I'm just checking it out now.
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Heathansson / Hudak - Shoanti Fighter
Vattnisse / Alwyn Agnarrson - Shoanti Cleric
Fatepsinner / Vethran Tallomane - Varisian Evoker
Dragonman / Lo'j - Chelish Marshal
Mothman / Elisile Starbrow - Elven Mystic Ranger
Fake Healer / Dravite Schorl - Dwarven Ranger
Stunty / Unnamed - Human Rogue
Ithuriel / Unnamed - Gnome BardIs this a correct listing our team? Updated?
Not quite:
Heathansson / Hudak - Shoanti Fighter
Vattnisse / Alwyn Agnarrson - Shoanti Cleric
Fatepsinner / Vethran Tallomane - Varisian Evoker
Dragonman / Lo'j - Chelish Marshal
Mothman / Elisile Starbrow - Elven Mystic Ranger
Fake Healer / Dravite Schorl - Dwarven Ranger
Stunty / Larken - Varisian Rogue
Ithuriel / Illes Elandru - Varisian Bard
Stunty's character is currently only a name, as I've seen no stats. The others are more or less there.
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Actually the aura description I have on me(from Crystal Keep Summary) says:
The Marshal can maintain one Minor Aura –
and– one Major Aura continuously, as long as he/she
is able to communicate with the surrounding allies.
An aura is activated as a Swift Action and Dismissed
as a Free Action. The Aura ends if the Marshal is
Dazed, Unconscious, Stunned, Paralyzed, etc.
The Aura affects all allies within a 60’ radius
(including the Marshal) who can hear the Marshal,
share a language, & have at least a 3 Intelligence.Which does say I have to be able to communicate with allies in order to maintain the ability. It does not say (and it is poorly written) I have to communicate with them. It explicty says I do not need to take any action in order to maintain the aura, just be able to.
It also does not state the type of radius (which I believe means we assume emanation which would be the same as the aura from a dragon shaman, so that at least makes sense).
Again, I am not trying to pull a rabbit outta my hat and get away with something. If nothing else slap a limit of marshal level + CHA bonus on the duration, and I will have to actively keep it running, and at least that will make sense to me. I don't need more auras to be happy, I tacked those on when I made activating an aura either a move or standard action.
OK, I've had a good look. To be frank, I am uninclined to change anything. While the mechanic is slightly unrealistic (an ongoing aura) it doesn't seem so peculiar to require amendment. Talking is generally considered a free action, so activating an aura should be a free action too. While a low level marshal doesn't get massive choice until level 3+, higher up he seems to get quite a lot, and skillful use of auras could be quite a key issue in battle.
However, if you insist on making a change, I suggest this:
An aura is not constantly in place, and must be activated during combat. Activation is a swift action (i.e. you can only activate one aura, or switch on a new one, per turn) and it can be dismissed as a free action by the marshall on his turn. Once activated, an aura is then in place for the rest of a combat, or until dismissed.
In return, you get one extra minor aura (i.e. 2 at lvl 1 and 2, 3 at lvl 3 and 4, and so on).
If you go for that, there is also the possibility of a feat: Instantaneous Aura. That allows you to activate one aura as an instantaneous action, i.e. even if it isn't your turn yet, similaarly to Instantaneous Rage in the Complete Warrior. It only affects one aura per turn, and cannot be taken more than once.
Is this the sort of thing you were looking for?
I think Dragon has some marshal stuff in it too. If there is anything there which appeals, let me know and I will check it out and opine.
*is ready to burn stuff*
But no tat's.
My Varisian tattoo is all up my left arm. It says "Burn M%~@%!@$~#@#s!" in Thassilon. And the letters are all fiery and stuff. S'cool. ;)
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Yeah, druid is probably a "better" choice in some ways ... but I don't have races of the wild, so I can't use that PrC - although a suppose Mystic Theurge would have a similar effect? And maybe it makes less sense for me to go ranger now that our second cleric has turned ranger...
But before I talk myself into changing, I really do like those 6 skill points from the ranger, the better BAB, and the skill list seems to fit this character better (ie, Move Silently and Hide, I can mix it with the rogue). I think I'll stick with this.
Got a back story about half written, should be posted today.
My character sheet can be found here:
Elisile's background.
Description.
Of medium height, quick and slender, Elisile has long white hair, a narrow face, ears that rise to points above the crown of her head, and large, somewhat expressionless eyes. She dresses functionally in dark leather and silk. She looks around her with an air of restrained but thirsty curiosity and mild distaste. A dark blue stone of high polish seems embedded into her forehead.
Background:
Elisile studied the arcane arts for several decades at the Tower of Stars, in the deepest regions of the Meriani. Magic was very serious, and studies that humans may have breezed through in mere weeks, the elves would spend years understanding the deepest mysteries of.
As her studies neared their end, rumours began to reach the Tower of trouble at the borders – marauding bands of humanoids and giants – the border Watchers were struggling to deal with the influx. Darker rumours too – that the marauders were not truly the problem, little worse than ever, but the Watchers were dealing with a cancer from within the borders.
Whatever the truth, those studying at the Tower who had demonstrated a particular competence with magic, or blade, or bow, were drafted to serve in the border guard.
Elisile served for two years, training, wraith-walk patrols, killing ogres from hidden tree-top archery platforms. At last, to her stoic relief, she was to return to the Tower to finish the last months of her training.
But she was turned away at the gates. “It has been Seen,” the Magister informed her through the barbed gates. “Your training finishes elsewhere. There is a destiny. Travel to the lands of the Mon-Khee. Seek the Unshining Light. Your journey begins.”
She made her way to the den of Riddleport, her first taste of humanity unpleasant but little more than expected, her blade and her ability to remain hidden her protection. Passage on a boat, pure elven gold to a dirty peddlar of journeys. Enduring the stink and harsh cries of humans on the voyage.
At last, the ship’s destination, a tiny blot of “civilization” called Sandpoint – a human town, known for it’s lighthouse, now unshining. Her journey begins.
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My character sheet can be found here:
I hate to be difficult, but is it possible to write up Larken as a profile on this site? I would make my life a lot easier if all I have to do is click on the PC's name at the top of the post and see their character sheet.
Well I hadn't planned any terrible family tragedy yet. : )
Actually I was thinking of Illes as a generally happy, easy-going, slightly lazy kind of guy. Keeping with the opposite of Vethran kind of theme. So Stunty... I notice you went Varisian too. Would be too much to lump the three of us into the same family? I haven't written up any specifics yet, (so this is a jumbled explanation) but was thinking that Vethran and Illes share a Grandmother, Alastrina Tallomane, making us cousins. Alastrina is the mystic crone archetype. She would be the one that people believe hears the voices of the dead. Maybe she does and maybe she doesn't- but everyone thinks she does either way. She was the one who taught Illes how to take people's money as an astrologer when the camp was performing. He never really took to this as a performer, but relished the time spent with his grandmother and the relationship it provided. Illes was always very superstitious and Alastrina was an object of awe. His father, Milos, taught him to play traditional Varisian music on the flute and Illes always accompanied his sister Eliska's dances during performances. When Vethran decided he was leaving the camp, Alistrina gaves Illes a convoluted tale about the vision she had seen and how the stars confirmed that he would accompany Vethran on his travels. Now maybe this was true... or maybe she was worried for Vethran's safety or the path he was set on... or maybe she was worried about the rather indiscreet affair Illes had been been carrying on with Marika- wife of the exceptionally vengeful animal trainer Vasilis. Whatever the true reason, she knew how much stock he placed in her visions. Despite his love of the camp and desire to stay, and despite Vethran's insistence that he was leaving alone the day came and they set out together- Vethran setting the course, Illes sure that he could eventually convince him to return home.
So stunts- Illes is 26, Vethran is 24. I notice you are listed as 15. If you want to be part of the family unit you could easily be the kid brother of either of us who refused to be left behind. Write in your own hooks where you like 'em. Or we can just meet up later and be glad to meet someone with appreciation for custom and shared history and all that.
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OK, that is my preference, so fine. I would strongly suggest, if it works with your character concept, multi-classing with knight. Two CHA-based warrior types might work well together.
If i multiclass at all, I think I will go with Divine Bard w/Bardic Knack instead of Bardic Knowledge... If i pick up jack of all trades, I will be able to try any skill. My Performance would be oration(inspiring speech), but I will probably just stick with Marshal until I find a PrC that clicks for me.
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OK, that is my preference, so fine. I would strongly suggest, if it works with your character concept, multi-classing with knight. Two CHA-based warrior types might work well together.If i multiclass at all, I think I will go with Divine Bard w/Bardic Knack instead of Bardic Knowledge... If i pick up jack of all trades, I will be able to try any skill. My Performance would be oration(inspiring speech), but I will probably just stick with Marshal until I find a PrC that clicks for me.
Ok, but you may have noticed I don't really like variants of existing classes. I'm quite keen for this campaign not to wind up as a test bed for all the variant rules in the SRD. We all have our pet peeves - the UA is mine.
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Ok, but you may have noticed I don't really like variants of existing classes. I'm quite keen for this campaign not to wind up as a test bed for all the variant rules in the SRD. We all have our pet peeves - the UA is mine.OK, that is my preference, so fine. I would strongly suggest, if it works with your character concept, multi-classing with knight. Two CHA-based warrior types might work well together.If i multiclass at all, I think I will go with Divine Bard w/Bardic Knack instead of Bardic Knowledge... If i pick up jack of all trades, I will be able to try any skill. My Performance would be oration(inspiring speech), but I will probably just stick with Marshal until I find a PrC that clicks for me.
No prob... i will probably stay marshal anyway.
I was thinking divine because it would be more of a buffing set up, I was thinking bless/aid/and such.
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While I am wearing down the bit with my chomping, what is your opinion of the commander feats from Dragon 323 and 348?
While I am at it, does the marshal come up anywhere else?
Bards, as doubtless you are aware, are excellent buffers anyway, though their repertoire is different.
I am OK with the feats in Dragon 348, though I think the Commander rankings are completely irrelevant in this game (as far as I know). I am a little less happy with the feats in Dragon 323, not so much that I don't like the effects but more that they are a bit easy to get. I would probably put additional restrictions to qualify for those (and probably remove the requirement to have the Commander feat, and replace it with being able to project a marshal's aura). If you can come up with something that satisfies me, similar to the ones on 348 - and let's face it, you will have PLENTY of time before it becomes and issue - then you can take them.
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While I am wearing down the bit with my chomping, what is your opinion of the commander feats from Dragon 323 and 348?
While I am at it, does the marshal come up anywhere else?
Bards, as doubtless you are aware, are excellent buffers anyway, though their repertoire is different.
I am OK with the feats in Dragon 348, though I think the Commander rankings are completely irrelevant in this game (as far as I know). I am a little less happy with the feats in Dragon 323, not so much that I don't like the effects but more that they are a bit easy to get. I would probably put additional restrictions to qualify for those (and probably remove the requirement to have the Commander feat, and replace it with being able to project a marshal's aura). If you can come up with something that satisfies me, similar to the ones on 348 - and let's face it, you will have PLENTY of time before it becomes and issue - then you can take them.
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of should i try to buy 323 or 348
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Sheesh - I was really impressed with your encyclopedic knowledge of the Dragon mags for a while. In short, they are OK - but get them if you fancy the look of the other articles too, I don't reckon they are totally worth it by themselves.
Crystal keep has references for Dragon stuff, so I knew what was appropriate.
Oh well... I really am digging this character and the concept, so don't worry that I am getting all flaky. I just never ran a marshal, and now I am trying to dredge up every way I can to make them cool.
Right then... profile is done.
Updated background and description (including height, weight, age etc) in profile. I'll get around to finishing off equipment in hte next day or two and I'm ready to rock!
Updated background and description (including height, weight, age etc) in profile. I'll get around to finishing off equipment in hte next day or two and I'm ready to rock!Just one comment - you appear to have five ranks in Survival, which obviously isn't possible for a first level character.
Um ... elven bonus? Mystic Ranger bonus? No, sorry, I've got no idea why I did that, I'll adjust it. You may have noticed, I've just updated my equipment too.
New avatar for Lo'j, thinking about moving some stuff around...
Oh and i squeezed enough cash out for some Harpy Musk, which will be in a small bag on Gurney's collar. Not enough to get the full effect, but maybe enough to keep a goblin from grappling or slitting his throat.
My blade hungers after singsong goblins.