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Yes, I don't fully endorse that conversion guide, although it is good (it has been significantly updated from when I last used it - I liked it before, but the extra bits I haven't had time to look at properly yet, and I didn't realize when I posted it up). I've been a bit poor at saying which bits I like and which I don't. My main problem with an elan would be what the hell he is doing in this fly-blown village - see the spoilered bit above for an explanation. If you can justify that, I don't have a problem.
Very helpful, thanks!
For my character's background, I was thinking Djal could be the son of a freed slave (though that would require explaining how his dwarven father decided to bed a human and therefore condemn her to death...) or he was freed as a newborn, along with other fleeing slaves.
Tales of the outside seldom reached him, but they often carried with them tall tales of gladiatorial feats. These tales have taken roots in Djal's mind and grown into The Plan, in which he becomes a famous free gladiator, beloved and respected by all. The Plan is still quite unfinished and has more grey areas than clear ones...
Two things he knows: he needs to get out of here, and he doesn't want to become a slave.
The newcomers he sees as a possible ticket out and to fame, but he respects is elders nonetheless.
Let me know if you see a problem or possibilities for allying with other newcomers with this background.
Hi, guys. I pitched a monk to Aubrey and he was kind enough to invite me in to talk. He was a bit worried that a monk would tread on DW's brawler's toes. I agree it's a possibility, and will bow out, if we can't reach a mutual agreement.
What I'd like to do is use the monk mechanics to create a 'wild child'. I've seen several people on the boards do druids as orphans in the wilderness, adopted and raised by wolves or what have you. My monk would have a similar back story. I foresee a character who's simple, loyal, biddable, verbally non-verbal and oriented toward wilderness survival. If possible I'd like to link her to one of the incoming characters as a kind of sidekick bound to the other PC by an act of kindness or other shared history.
As for combat, depending on what DW intends, and with some indulgence on Aubrey's part, the monk could flurry, use a simple weapon, grapple, or throw weapons, in order to maintain a distinction between the two. The monk will probably be more mobile.
EDIT: Ninja'd by DW.
Hi therealthom! Let's try to figure something out. I'm sure there's enough possibilities out there!
I'll PM you shortly.
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DW:
Thom, I'd really like characters to be verbal. The non-verbal stuff makes it difficult in a PbP. The chattier, the better.
That said, instead of raised by wolves, have you considered raised by 'kreen? Things to consider:
- why didn't they eat you?
- how did being raised by sentient crickets affect you?
- what happened to your "clutch"?
- why are you at the village?
PM sent.
Thanks. I thought Mul were sterile for some reason. That solves this problem. Young Djal would have hung out with the old gladiator, caring only for the good parts of their stories and dismissing the other parts: 'Yeah-yeah! But it won't happen to ME!'
I mentioned to therealthom that the new group's configuration has veered towards melee quite a bit, especially if the barbarian character stays on board. I was wondering how else I could contribute, and thereby leave the brawling to therealthom. If that would be best, then I don't mind working on something else. What would be other contributing classes keeping with Dark Sun's theme and mood, other than the ones already played?
Some further thoughts:
If we still need a full BAB character, I can go with a Lore Warden/Martial Expert. That would remain in line with what I had in mind, but moving towards weapons instead of fists. Another possibility is to take the gladiator class in the pdf you linked.
If we wish to have another type of character, I see the following options:
-hunter, though this is still quite a melee focus, though I could build an archer of sorts backed by a big pet, or riding. I like the halfling slinger idea, but getting him in the village would prove tricky.
-kineticists, with their mastery over elements, seem quite in line with the elemental focus of the setting. Some priestly figure maybe?
That's it, but I know too little about the setting, so I've dismissed classes such as the shaman or the witch.
I know little about psionics, but I wouldn't mind trying it. Perhaps a vitalist or a tactician would make sense?
Let me know what you think. I can also change nothing ;)
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DW
We are probably OK for healing, as both Cahel and Arakan have some expertise with this. But it might not hurt to have an elemental cleric either, since both healers would probably be considered as "secondary" types. That would require looking at the DS supplement and I don't know precisely how they handle elemental clerics (which are the only clerics available in DS, since all the gods are dead, unless you worship a sorcerer-king, which is unlikely in this village to say the least). But it might be worth considering.
Updated crunch as a 4th level human. Awaiting some of your notes on what you like/don't like about the conversion. Had to make some painful adjustments in Hero Lab to make the Dark Sun human work ... I think its good. Will have to double check power points every level to be sure.
22 point build ... level 2-4 hps rolled earlier ... no gear yet: 3,000gp to purchase for us? What are your limitations? Boons are for everyone as you post or just for the oldheads?
Inherent bonus list ... we are all using that? If so, how does the weapon enhancement +1 apply to the mindblade as far as shaping in weapon powers? Does it count, or do I need to make it +2 total (including inherent bonus) before I can add special abilities.
When I was considering Elan, I had originally thought of Cristaph as being part of a group of folks built/shaped/trained to guard some ancient ruin that had an unknown (to him) spiritual significance. He would have been doing this for some time ... I see him as middle aged, maybe 40ish in human years. Then, an attack unlocked memories of a previous life and he "broke faith" with his group and left, roaming nomadically and hunting for some sign of what he used to be leading him to this village (perhaps falsely and now he's stuck here due to the villagers unwillingness to let those in the know get out).
I'm thinking that area would've been in the mountains/hills inbetween Gulg and Nibenay. Easily moveable depending on where this starting village is ... Tablelands is a big place.
As a human, I could use a similar background, but the breaking moment could've been the realization during the attack that the ruins they were protecting held absolutely nothing (having been looted centuries ago) and he lost his reason for existence and broke trust with his trainers/elders. He leaves and travelling the wastes for a long period of time leaves him short on water, starving and near death. He comes upon or comes near this village and they save his life, and he settles in. Not sure how long this village has been here, but since he has no drive, he hangs for a while. However, the antics of the village elders seem very similar to his previous situation, and he is starting to chafe under their lockdown ... perhaps seeking some freedom and he sees the PCs as an opportunity.
I see him Neutral Good having had an alignment change from LG following the "Great Reveal."
He would still espouse wisdom and perhaps anecdotal proverbs that he grew up with, but he is always wrestling with whether he believes it and begins to seek/question others about their views/beliefs on morality. I see him still having a basis in logic from his upbringing, but very empathic as he has gotten older and handling his crisis with a level of maturity and high self awareness
I will finish Morthak's update this weekend.
It will be a few more days still for me possibly.
Hotel wifi only works for my phone, it seems, not for my laptop.
But, it wasnt always the case so maybe itll work later.
Also, may have to change hotels since this one is full and i cant extend the stay, so that might help
I'll build the character as a 'slave among freed slaves.' He had it all, was a favorite of his master, who made good use of his gifts. He was kidnapped during a group of slaves' escape, freed despite himself, as a tool to survive the ordeals of gained-freedom. As such, he, for the longest time, was looking for a way to escape the village, but the desert, then attachment to the tribe, then a newly-found purpose in protection others, made him reconsider, for the time being. The arrival of a new group could potentially shake his new and fragile resolve.
Let me know if you have strong reservations about this. In the meantime, I'll try to come up with something.
so 15...
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DW
Since I'm not familiar with psionics, it is a lot to take in, and tactician, by having more options set, instead of the great blank slate that is the psion, requires less reading to figure.
The way I see the background, the said tactician/psion would have been a part of the community from the start, just reluctantly, and not trusted by the village until recently.
A chafing character born in the village I could also try to work out...
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DW
I'm having problems with Wultram in the Eberron game, where he was using some half-arsed amateur conversion (not his own, to be fair) of an obscure class from an obscure WotC supplement - as you know, I had to do a complete reworking of that class, and I reckon it's probably still too powerful. In retrospect, I should have insisted he take a sorcerer with the undead bloodline, which would cause me much less aggro. And it's why I'm a concerned about the tactician. It's probably not as bad as Wultram's dread necromancer but it's enough of an unknown quantity to bother me.
Also, some psionic marshal character would need a good reason to hang about in this village. This isn't a military situation, it's a survival situation. The skills which would be necessary would revolve around hunting and gathering, not organising groups of troops. I know that the DS setting is a bit new to you but fundamentally everyone is on the edge of extinction unless they live in a city - when you are instead oppressed by massively powerful evil wizards who are worshipped as gods. So this sort of character would most definitely be out of place in the village.
Now, that said, by far the most militaristic city state in Athas is quite near by - Urik, run by the sorcerer-king Hamanu, is one of the closer ones. So a sort of officer-class character like this is not a bad fit with the setting. I think, though, he'd be unlikely to be a slave - after all, would you want your slaves to be capable of sophisticated martial manoeuvres and organising lots of people into a crack fighting force? Sounds more like a recipe for a slave rebellion. More likely he's be a templar, maybe a warrior-priest of Hamanu. But perhaps he's fallen out with the hierarchy, maybe even grown a conscience. Perhaps he led a rebellion himself, and it went horribly wrong (well, it would - in PF terms the sorcerer-kings are mythic characters) and he fled to the desert to escape, wound up barely alive in the village and was accepted. Maybe he's been happy here for years until the arrival of the bandits, which now cause problems but he can't challenge them alone.
As for class, you could go for tactician as it makes sense in this context. You could consider a bard - yes, it's arcane magic but as a templar you would have had a licence for that in Urik - maybe with a more martial archetype (no idea what that might be). Or you could even be a cleric, or perhaps a warpriest, worshipping Hamanu.
Arakan is almost done. Before I spend the last of my money (chose not to take the Uttercold as it does nothing for my new class), how do you want me to work my Brew Potion and Craft Alchemy abilities with buying gear?
I had a wrong idea about slaves. I was thinking of Julius Cesar's slave, a greek who was entrusted with enormous power. I think DS is quite different...
Ok, I need some time off to think about this. I'll get back to you with some ideas, probably by PM.
I just started looking at the PF files.
I won't get a chance to do much with Th'Kal till later this weekend.
If anyone has conversion ideas or feats they know of, I'd love to hear ideas... It may help me convert faster.
Ps. This next week is another horrible work schedule for me... But I will try to get the Kreen updated asap.
I mean, could I buy some poison/potions at half price (with crafting rolls) with my money, or should I pay full price for now?
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Updated crunch as a 4th level human. Awaiting some of your notes on what you like/don't like about the conversion. Had to make some painful adjustments in Hero Lab to make the Dark Sun human work ... I think its good. Will have to double check power points every level to be sure.
22 point build ... level 2-4 hps rolled earlier ... no gear yet: 3,000gp to purchase for us? What are your limitations? Boons are for everyone as you post or just for the oldheads?
Inherent bonus list ... we are all using that? If so, how does the weapon enhancement +1 apply to the mindblade as far as shaping in weapon powers? Does it count, or do I need to make it +2 total (including inherent bonus) before I can add special abilities.
** spoiler omitted **...
No problem with the backround. Purchase what you like - however, remember that items don't add enhancement bonuses anymore. Re the enhancement to the mindblade, simply ignore the inherent bonuses for weapon attunement as your class abilities supersede that.
...
Thom, I'd really like characters to be verbal. The non-verbal stuff makes it difficult in a PbP. The chattier, the better.That said, instead of raised by wolves, have you considered raised by 'kreen? Things to consider:
- why didn't they eat you?
- how did being raised by sentient crickets affect you?
- what happened to your "clutch"?
- why are you at the village?
Addressing your points in order:
1. Verbosity: Based on our discussions and experience with Rehil I agree. Chatty is good. And I see now that 'Verbally non-verbal' was not a very good description of what I had in mind. She'll have low functioning verbal skills, but she'll talk a lot. Internal conversation spoken out loud, plentiful, but simple discussions with other PCs.
2. Raised by 'kreen: Brilliant! I wasn't attached to wolves per se, it was just the effect I was looking for. 'kreen are much better.
3. Why didn't they eat you? : Tricky, and requiring a bit of indulgence on your part. Perhaps when she was young, she had an empathic sensitivity that allowed her to connect sympathetically to the hive-mind. It was just enough that the 'kreen considered she was interesting, or an encouraging evolutionary improvement on humanity, or something -- just not food.
4. how did being raised by sentient crickets affect you? See next post.
5. what happened to your "clutch"? : In a word, puberty. Let's say she's 6 when she's parted from her family in the desert. Cause of the parting is not remembered. 8 years she lives with the 'kreen. Suddenly she's 14 and a sea of raging hormones. For their own sanity they exile her.
6. why are you at the village? : Option 1. She's bound by gratitude and loneliness to another new PC.
Option 2.Since 'exile' she's wandered the desert, been enslaved, escaped, and wandered the desert. She's a relative newcomer to the village and lives mostly in the outlying desert. She came because the meager spring at her last camp home went sour. She's hoping to move on if she can stockpile enough supplies.
EDITTED SPOILER.
Alright, over today and tomorrow I can focus on rebuilding Cahel.
That said, I am struggling with Druid just a bit. Vanilla Druid does not capture any essence or theme of Athas, so I am looking at archetypes. You said the Saurian Shaman archetype was somewhat inappropriate because there aren't many dinosaurs on Athas, but the archetype keys off of dinosaurs or reptiles, and there are a fair bit of reptiles in Athas. Notable examples (from Terrors of Athas, via this page on Athas.org (www.athas.org/products/toa/documents/114)) include:
Boneclaw (lesser and greater versions)
Braxat
Drake (air, earth, fire, water)
Dray
Drik
Fordorran
Gith
Jozhal
Lizardfolk, Athasian
Nikaal
Pterran
Razowing
Sand Howler
Silt Runner
Ssurran
Crodlu
Jhakar
Kluzd
Lirr
Lizard, Giant
Lizard, Jastrak
Lizard, Minotaur
Lizard, Subterranean
Mekillot
Pterrax
Slimahacc
Snake, Bogo
Regarding Desert Druid, I am averse to it because it penalizes Wild Shape with no benefit that makes sense in Athas. You get wild shape later, and you give up plant types (makes sense) but get vermin (not many vermin last long on Athas, and as such are poorly supported in bestiary supplements).
Ancient Guardian gives a bonus to skills Cahel isn't notable for using (diplomacy and oratory), gives up spontaneous Nature's Ally spells for Calm Emotions (which is bad for Th'Kal), and much later gets an ability to destroy items (not great in Athas).
Saurian Shaman gets wild shape at the same time as vanilla Druid, which I like, but once wild shape improves at 6 it stunts your non-reptile wild shape by two levels and increases your reptile wild shape by two levels, so Cahel could decently contribute in combat as a reptile but still have versatility out of combat as a non-reptile, if needed, though he wouldn't be too keen on it since he likes reptiles more. Also, that won't matter for two levels, as levels 4 and 5 have him only wild shaping once per day unless i take a feat that allows it more (if such a feat exists, I haven't checked).
In conclusion, I am fairly keen on Saurian Shaman. However, if that is right out, then I will work on something else.
I'm assuming your character background is already fleshed out, but just as an aside: some of the vanilla druid stuff actually works really well if you're from the giant forest out to the west or even between Nibenay and Gulf. The desire to bring back the forests and jungles could be part of the motivation.
-Posted with Wayfinder
I'm assuming your character background is already fleshed out, but just as an aside: some of the vanilla druid stuff actually works really well if you're from the giant forest out to the west or even between Nibenay and Gulf. The desire to bring back the forests and jungles could be part of the motivation.
-Posted with Wayfinder
I don't think Half-Giants hail from those locations, though I could be wrong. And I don't think it would be sensible to change race for Cahel, as he is an existing character.
Yeah, figured you might be constrained a bit.
-Posted with Wayfinder
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Now, it has been noted that this party is turning into a bunch of melee maulers - barbarian, brawler (probably), monk (probably), saurian druid (probably), soulknife. I'm not expecting anyone to change their characters, but just note that something you can't walk up to and hit might be more of a challenge than normal. For those melee types - please make sure you have some ranged capability in your back pocket.
Alrighty, excellent.
I will keep that in mind, regarding the melee mauler aspect.
My plan was not to full-on focus wild shape, but keep some casting ability as well. With others being more dedicated melee, I had planned on (at best) being a support melee/fringe flanker.
I am still planning on picking a domain instead of an animal, as much for the purpose outlined above as not wanting to stat up a companion, as well as your statement regarding us having more than enough melee.
I will pack heal spells, I honestly don't plan on summoning things unless I feel it is the only option (since Athas summon lists aren't well plotted out and it just adds yet another bloating of turn length and actions to roll/adjudicate).
I just think wild shape is the coolest part of druid, and I dislike that some archetypes delay/reduce it without a good counterbalance. My thinking is "if i can't wild shape, why play druid?".
TL;DR: I will try to keep versatility at the expense of melee badassery
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** spoiler omitted **......
Thom, I'd really like characters to be verbal. The non-verbal stuff makes it difficult in a PbP. The chattier, the better.That said, instead of raised by wolves, have you considered raised by 'kreen? Things to consider:
- why didn't they eat you?
- how did being raised by sentient crickets affect you?
- what happened to your "clutch"?
- why are you at the village?
Thom:
Have you considered your character build? I was wondering - have you considered going as a multi-classed monk/egoist? As it has a strong psionic flavour it might be appropriate both for your character's background and also for Athas in general. If you take Mantis Style (Ultimate Combat) (and a bit of a must if you are raised by thri'kreen) and the other two feats in the that chain, there are some nice synergies with being a multi-class monk. Your BAB might suffer slightly but the feats compensate, as would some of the egoist powers. Something to think about, anyway.
There is no official Paizo feat that allows additional uses of wild shape, so I won't be shaping a whole lot for a loooooong time (considering it is a PbP even with fast progression).
I get one use a day for four hours.
gah!
would you allow a 3rd party feat that doubled wild shape duration?
i requested access to the weapons document linked from the campaign page.
Could I chose This trait?
It is typically for Pathfinder Society, so I figured I'd ask... I don't know that DS would have such limitations on society-based traits, save perhaps the Veiled Alliance. It isn't quite what i wanted (double all wild shape duration) but it is useful to me for the next two levels, at least (since the forms the trait is limited to are currently the entirety of forms I am limited to), but later on when I can take on larger forms it will be less useful.
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Cristaph:
1. Why does he have so many feats? EDIT: Don't worry, worked it out.
2. What is his Wild Talent?
3. That Psychoportive Talent trait looks rather powerful for a trait. Unless you can convince me otherwise (such as through comparison to a similar feat) please choose something else a bit more mainstream.
4. Could you add some more details regarding backstory? That helps me come up with potential story-lines.