no, it is a Wondrous Item, created with those rules (not the potion rules).
It is a one-use wondrous item. It could be anything, a one-use sword, mask, etc. It would just happen to be shaped like magic juice in a flask.
so, a See Invisibility Potion has a market value of 300 gp. However, as you have explained, such an item is clearly forbidden (though why the designers did such, I don't know).
Now, mechanically, a potion of See Invisibility is nothing but a spell, usable only once, and usable by anyone. We can't cut the mustard with a scroll because not everyone can use those. BUT, everyone can use Wondrous Items.
So, looking at Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values (which covers all magic item types), to make an "Elixir" we would use the following cost breakdown:
Single Use, Use Activated (Spell level x caster level x 50 gp)
At base level, this would be 2 x 3 x 50gp = 300gp, same as the potion.
All this is not even taking into account if you look at the PFSRD at the list of Wondrous Items you will see elixirs, like Elixir of Love, Hiding, Swimming, Tumbling, so on and so forth (31 matches with a CTRL+F). I think the initial hangup was that the idea of an elixir is, thematically, the same as a potion. Mechanically they are the same as well, they are simply achieved with different feats (Wondrous versus Potion).
The only difference between a potion and this elixir is the feat used to make it. Furthermore, elixirs are not bound by spell level restrictions. And since they are wondrous items, they don't have to be elixirs at all. It could be a syringe of Polymorph or a pill of Unholy Aura. It could be a simple handle of Flame Blade that burns up at the end of its first use.
Leo's interests
tanglefoot bag
thunderstone
antitoxin
smelling salts
alchemical solvent
smoke stick
Bouncing metamagic rod (lesser)
Wand of cure light wounds (30 charges)
Wand of Silent Image (25 charges)
Acid (2)
Alchemical grease (3)
Antiplague, Smokestick
Many if these could be put in a communal place for any of us to equip ourselves with before a mission. I'd hate to see good consumable items go to waste.
The rod of bouncing could help Leo a bit, even though he already has the feat. It'll help increase the number of successful saving throws people roll against my spells per round.
Loot Division: Everyone gets 3312gp's each. Leo and Rilumin get the items they requested. @Leo: good idea about "communal items". Maybe keep them on your character sheet for now? If you are worried about encumbrance then maybe Ian could take some?
@GM: On the loot list there as an item (near the top) called "Wander of Cure Light Wounds". I'm guessing this is another wand of clw, but wanted to check and also to see how many charges.
@GM, Part 2: Do you have a final take on Rilumin/Tenro's proposed use of 1-shot Wondrous Items? I'm guessing the answer is "no" based on what you told the Thieves before, but wanted to check.
Should I know who Kel is? I'm having a hard time keeping track.
Don't think we've met or heard about a "Kel" before. Could be just a guy that worked in the library.
May not be related, but Tomlin met Dether in the library. He's the guy that helped us against the exploding half-elf when we were looking for Bannali. Dether said he was looking for info on an expedition, but I'm fairly certain he's a capable bluffer.
Wander should have been wand.
No on the 1-shot items.
Kel is a new name.
Added the open gear consumables to my character sheet. "Gear kept at tower". This is open to everyone, just claim the item before you leave the tower and remember you have it. If you use it, make sure I know so I can remove it from the sheet, otherwise I'll assume it is placed back at the tower after the mission.
gonna take that composite bow as well, just realized rilumin has the STR for it
If anyone is up for another game, I'm in a fun, well-run Skull and Shackles that is just getting to the cool pirate part. I play Astein. We're looking for a melee type to compliment the crew. If you're interested pop into the Discussion thread as my recommendation.
http://paizo.com/campaigns/GMShathirasSkullAndShackles
I'm full up. Thanks though.
I know we have gathered a bit of treasure from a few sources. I think we should liquidate that and re-invest now... I know we might normally wait for levelling up with that, but I have no idea where we are along that path.
We did liquidate and divvy'd out all the treasure to date. Everyone got 3312gp's each. Unless the GM says otherwise we're free to use that to purchase whatever we'd like.
I do think we should continue searching the catacombs under the library. Furthermore I don't think this is just a distraction. Couple things to keep in mind: 1) we know that Firyin is trying to funnel drow into the city. Is it possible this is part of his plan? Not sure, but worth looking into; 2) Given the we just got swarmed by 8 shadows (REALLY getting sick of fighting incorporeal and random DR'd creatures), there is some serious Sh!t going on down there that a party of our level or higher is needed for; 3) I'm not entirely clear how important any of our other quests is aside from Radgar. The Rebellion is on the run, the Thieves are riven by internal strife, lost a main hideout and we routed them the last time fought. Fighting the pesh trade was a theme before, but frankly I'm just not sure this group cares that much about it. Everything else was just bit-part stuff.
My vote is that we deal with the library situation, hopefully we can bring the harp-player to justice and tackle whatever nasty stuff lies underground. All that would be doing the city a service. After that we look into our Radgar leads. If that bears fruit, great, we follow it. If not, I say we just go to Gumlat and figure out what the heck is holding everyone up.
That's one vote...majority rules of course.
Another group's hijinks could draw Radgar out while we take care of the pit. but i think the pit ought to take priority over even creating a second group just because tactically speaking it is a free way into our compound that we need to get rid of ASAP
In regards to a group B, in overall concept I like the idea. The mages do actually have agents throughout the kingdom. E.g, Valdr, Tunny, Aurelion, and other former PC's have been sent to Issust Hold to look into some things going on there.
Within Coran itself, you always have the city guard to call on to look into minor matters. There are also several low level bureaucrats that could handle low priority details like Nikado's daughter that don't fit under the city guards generally brute force method for dealing with problems. Neither of those would quite fit into some general investigative work that perhaps Leo is looking for. With that in mind you may request someone to go look into, or spy on, say The Crow, or someone to watch over the cliff side where the corpse was recovered from the ocean, or keep an eye on The Wailing Spirits, etc and get a report back after a day or two of time (assuming the spy doesn't get captured or caught (and whatever is going on those various locations present a real danger to someone about such activities).
All sounds good to me :D
Also, I'm 754gp short of a giants belt. If we have a moment to shop atm, might I borrow from someone?
@Ian: Yep, Roland can spot you that.
Also, Roland bought a restoration and will buy 2 potions of bless weapon
I need to get the quiver of holding or whatever it is called
Getting a wand of lesser restoration is currently outside of my price range, but I can pick up a couple uses of diamond dust for use in a pinch as I can cast regular restoration to fully heal ability damage
This last meeting just confused the heck out of me. I've skimmed through it a couple of times now, and I just can't retain the info. Someone care to break down whats happening here?
@Leo: can do...assuming you mean the meeting with Hast just now. My bad, if I'm wrong on that.
We were returning from the Temple of Nethys, where those of us who got STR drained by the shadows had received Restoration or Lesser Restoration, to go back to the Library when we spotted Master Hast looking angry in front of the Temple of Abadar. Since we hadn't seen Hast in a while we approached him, mostly in hopes of chatting about our group's priorities. Turns out Hast had urgent business at the Temple of Abadar and was peeved that High Priest Mori, who was the High Priest of Abadar in the city (I think that's right) wasn't coming out to greet him.
Roland obliquely asked Hast about our group's missions (i.e. what we should we be focused on) and Hast said the Rebellion. This was surprising, but before we could follow up it was clear that Hast's business at the Temple of Abadar was more important. The priests inside the Temple finally let Hast in, and told him Mori was dead (not clear how). Hast then immediately asked about a Magic Seal inside the Temple, and was told it had been broken. From Sense Motive it was clear he wasn't surprised by the Seal being broken, though.
Hast then marched back to the Seal, pushing a priest out of the way. We followed and found a door inside the Temple that had a now-dormant magic seal over it. The door was also open, with stairs going down. It was clear that multiple folks had gone down the stairs from the footprints in the dust. The priest Hast pushed aside said that the Temple had already brought in a Team to deal with the problem, and that they had descended the stairs to explore. It wasn't clear who this "team" is (I'm wondering if it isn't the Thieves or Merchants), which is what Roland asked.
Hast directed us to put exploring the Library on the backburner, and told Roland to get a group of experienced guards to watch over the Library. We are to deal with the Temple of Abadar situation now, presumably meaning we are to head down the stairs after the other "team" and whomever broke the seal in the first place. Rilumin went in Ian's place to find Serelina, who was en route to the Temple anyway when Rilumin found her.
Hope that helps. @GM: if I screwed any of this up, please fix!
That is an accurate summation.
I think I get it, thanks!
Tossing this here in case anyone is looking for a game. I'm in a pretty well run Skull and Shackles where we are just re-outfiting the boat and ready to begin the fun part. We need a melee type to round out our party after a couple of drop outs. My character is Astein.
Here is the original recruitment and you can go to gameplay to see who we have doing what.
http://paizo.com/campaigns/GMShathirasSkullAndShackles/recruiting&page= 1
I'll take a swipe at joining that.
full up on games at the moment, but thanks for the offer!
I will be attending Gencon this year. If anyone wants to sit down for lunch or dinner on of the days, send me a PM and we will figure out when/where to meet up.
I won't be making it, but meeting up with online RP buddies sounds fun. Dang.
i have yet to make it to any convention
Ditto what Rilumin said
Man, I'm having a hell of a time keeping up with this campaign. Sorry all. Finding the time to keep up to date on this one is becoming increasingly more difficult. Please bot me as needed, and I'll try to catch up sooner or later.
I just am not able to catch up here. Too busy nowadays it seems. Sorry guys, I think it best if I just back out of this one.
@Leo: Sorry to hear it, but totally understand how things get with RL. You will be missed!
Sorry to see you go Leo!
Sorry to see you go as well Leo, but thanks for spending the last year and a half with us.
Tomorrow I will be traveling outside the US on vacation and will return on October 6th. During such time, I will likely be very sparing on the boards, and I imagine connectivity may be an issue. Please bot me as necessary. I will still try to get some posts in or at least keep up with games while in my hotel, if wifi-allows.
So how to we reasonably request a treasure share for a celestial who disappeared when the fight was at its toughest?
First off, the squishy wizard says "thank you" to the nice meat shield that soaked up over 100hp's of damage over the combat.
Second, .....yeah, actually I don't think there is a plausible way to request a treasure share for Roland. He may just be SoL on this. In retrospect the "go in disguise" idea wasn't so much fun. But, hey, that's Roland: a lot of acting and not much forethought.
in my IRL games, i just do it out of character. this happens a lot because i'm usually playing something nonstandard.
@Tenro: I can see that for tabletop games, or even typical PbP games. This particular PbP seems more predicated on a level of separation between the groups. Not sure if it worked or not, but I'd like to think the other group is not aware that "the celestial" was Roland or even a PC in the party. Roland would certainly hope that is the case. That said, if we really have moved away from much chance of PvP then it may make little to no difference to show our hand to the Merchants.
@GM: Would you be able to give us a "state of the campaign" update? It seems like we really have moved away from a PvP-dominated atmosphere to one that is either highly collaborative and/or more like traditional D&D/Pathfinder games. Curious if that is a correct assessment and if the Rebellion (if there is one anymore) or Theives' Guild groups feel the same. Also, what do we do about Leo? NPC him? Just drop him and go with 4 PC's? Try to recruit someone else?
All,
I'm in semi-offline negotations with Cindy on trying to find a way to split things up equitably. I'm trying to make it a straight split between the groups so that we can divide up our half including Roland as the most fair way to do things while allowing Roland to keep his secrets.
@GM - as partial compensation would you allow Serelina to craft a wondrous item for the Merchants and provide it at cost?
The proposition we are exploring is:
Would you consider a trade where our team gets the armor, rapier and headband and your team gets the gloves and boots but also throws in something of value to at least somewhat offset the delta in value. I understand that at least half the value of the gloves are situational in value.
I am trying to sell an good solution to my team. As proposed the deal nets the Mages 37K in value and the Merchant is 25.62K in value. This is a delta of 11380 gold. Half of that would be 5690.
I do not think we need things to be exact but it would be helpful if the Mages were to offer something to smooth out the delta. Could be gold, items, or perhaps even favors. I'm also in favor of the deal furthering our relationship and trust.
I expect the ring to be a plot device rather than an actual magic item so I don't think we can really consider it treasure. Master Hast's reaction seems to confirm that.
We don't have the cash/items to spare to make up 5,690. A favor could work however... Do you have any crafters in your group? Serelina has craft wondrous items. If someone wants on your side wants boots of speed (or something similar), Serelina could craft them if you provide the 6,000 gold. That would result in 6,000 gold bonus for your side which is about what is owed. Heck she could craft a couple of things if the GM allows time...
If that doesn't work, I will likely propose this:
The best solution is likely to liquidate the gloves and get cash to divy the other items up. Everything should be considered at what it could be sold for, not full price because that is the real value it has right now - what we can sell it for.
Chain 150
+1 Keen Rapier 4,660
Headband 8,000
Sub Total: 12,810
Plus 2,845
Grand Total 15,655
vs.
Boots at 6,000
Cash = 6,810
SubTotal: 12,810
Plus 2,845
Grand Total 15,655
We take the boots and sell the gloves for 12,500. To balance we get 6,810. That leaves 5,690. Divided by two is 2,845
Update:
I understand that is what we would sell them for, but we are trying not to have to sell them. If we keep the items as I described your team increases in value almost 12K more than my team. (Your 5960 number is still right as the Delta that would make us even). And it seems you are already ahead on that curve, just based on you having a +4 stat item. No one our our team has any single item worth half that, unless you count my fetish mask that I can enchant but am quite limited to what enchants I can apply.
Cindy has under 750 in gold at the moment. Not sure what other members have. But none of us have crafting available to us outside my mask, which is like a bonded item as far as crafting goes.
Cindy's most valuable enchanted item is her Jingasa which may have powered down with the released errata on the item. I have not asked the DM about it that I recall.
I am not asking for you to try to balance our two groups equipment values or anything like that but think to get the deal to go through you will have to offer up either items or gold of at least half that 5690 value.
But not everything is complete. There may be rewards yet so more cash may be on the table. And the ring is not yet resolved though I suspect you are correct about it likely never being something any of us get.
I really am trying to think of our two groups as a team and trying to work out what is best for both groups.
So neither group has the cash to make up for 5690 in value.
That means we're going to have to liquidate items - specifically the gloves because their value is too high for their worth.
The issue is that by selling the item we cut its value in half. It isn't fair to assign the item to one side or the other before we sell it because then that side takes the loss on the half the value of the item when it is sold. So the item would have to be sold, then we divide the loot. Unless someone on your team can use a master work chain shirt, that is also useless. No one on my team can, so that needs to be sold prior to division as well.
The division this way would be:
Gloves turned to gold = 12,500
Mwk Chain Mail (sold as no one can use it) turned to gold = 150
+1 Keen Rapier = 9,320
Headband of Vast Intellect +4 = 16,000
Boots of Speed = 12,000
So dividing that would be:
Merchants get:
Rapier = 9,320
Headband = 16,000
Total = 25,320
Mages get:
Boots = 12,000
Gold = 12,650
Total = 24,650
With the delta being 670 in your favor - Can your team cover 670?
@GM: Would you be able to give us a "state of the campaign" update? It seems like we really have moved away from a PvP-dominated atmosphere to one that is either highly collaborative and/or more like traditional D&D/Pathfinder games. Curious if that is a correct assessment and if the Rebellion (if there is one anymore) or Theives' Guild groups feel the same. Also, what do we do about Leo? NPC him? Just drop him and go with 4 PC's? Try to recruit someone else?
For now drop Leo without bringing in a replacement character.
Current state of the game:
Thieve's guild is inactive. I tried to reboot it with a different set of players, but it didn't get off the ground (some inter-party bickering over character builds of all things).
So at this point I can either continue to run the various story line threads without any expectation of future PvP (mages and merchants are the two most compatible groups for working together - not that I plan to have the two groups combine into one and run the rest of the game that way - just there isn't any pressing conflict between the two), or I can start weaving the story to bring up some conflict between the two. Any preferences for one or the other from this group?
Wow, surprised to hear both the Rebellion AND Thieves' Guild groups folded. To me, that does take quite a bit of the steam out of the PvP aspect. The Merchant's seem more like occasional allies we connect with. After a couple of rounds of PvP, I'm not necessarily a big fan though I do respect that the GM baked this in from the beginning. I'd be fine continuing in the "sandbox with many leads" style that we've been doing since the last go-around with the Thieves and leave the PvP part out.
My 2 cents...........
sounds good to me as well. you could even combine the two groups if you want, it has worked out well (at least from my point of view as a player).
that said, Rilumin was a reaction to our team being overly weak in the PvP department. All he does is shoot arrows. I still enjoy the game by reading the story, but he has no real contribution to that. With PvP removed, he adds next to no value.
In that light, how would you feel about my introducing a different, more magical character? I've been playing with Spheres of Power in several games, and I think it would be a good fit in this one. If you disagree, I won't complain, but I'd continue to play Rilumin. This is because after the elegant simplicity of SoP, I won't go back to regular vancian magic.
Serelina is geared pretty strongly for PvP as well, but her personality is such that I think I will just try and keep her moving in the direction as a utility mage who supports the party.
Tenro, if you are thinking of bringing someone else in we are woefully low on healing options. Currently, I believe you are the only character who could even use a wand of cure light wounds.
Serelina is geared pretty strongly for PvP as well, but her personality is such that I think I will just try and keep her moving in the direction as a utility mage who supports the party.
Tenro, if you are thinking of bringing someone else in we are woefully low on healing options. Currently, I believe you are the only character who could even use a wand of cure light wounds.
That wouldn't be a problem, i could incorporate that into my idea with no issues.