Serious question: How do you keep your pack animals alive? You can hire a few NPC grooms to keep watch while you're down in the dungeon, but they're more fragile than the mules themselves. Do you just abstract it all away and use the Jade Regent caravan system? Play softball and never attack the animals? When it comes time to leave your vulnerable chocobos alone in the parking lot, how do you like to handle it?
Buy new ones. My players have their horses killed out from under them all the time. Ignoring they're there is a video game silliness that shouldn't be encouraged in my opinion.
Bags of holding to carry the loot will take care of most of the problem.
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Animate dead + the bloody template.
Sure they still get killed, but at least you don't have to keep re-buying them.
Alternatively, you can use the mount and phantom steed spells. At mid to high levels these last more than long enough with a rod of extension. Again it's not so much about trying to keep them from dying, instead its about making the cost of those deaths negligible.
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Yak: These shaggy-haired relatives to cows are more at home in mountainous terrain where they are frequently used as pack animals and to pull plows. Yaks have the same statistics as bison. Price 24 gp; Weight 1,000 lbs.hp 22
vs
Horse or Pony
Type Price Weight
Heavy 200 gp 2,000 lbs. hp 19
Heavy, combat trained 300 gp 3,000 lbs.hp 19
Light 75 gp 900 lbshp 15
Light, combat trained 110 gp 1,200 lbs.hp 15
Pony 30 gp 800 lbs.hp 13
Pony, combat trained 45 gp 900 lbshp 13
the yak is superior at everything and cost less than any of them
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Animate dead + the bloody template.
I came here to suggest this.
Also, here are some other options:
- - Disguise a horse as a dragon (it's easy if you pick a dragon that doesn't have ranks in Knowledge: Arcana or Knowledge: Nature, such as a Copper Dragon, who wouldn't be able to tell a Horse from a Dragon without the disguise). Play romantic music. Rear offspring. Repeat for each energy type you need your mount to have immunity to and pick the appropriate mount for the situation.
- - As above, but with a Giant Skunk, Buffalo, Elephant and/or Wooly Rhino. While all of these choices may not result in a stronger mount, they will keep you amused.
- - As above, but with a Dretch and the Half-Fiend template.
- - As above, but with a Celestial (I suggest an Agathion).
Better Adventuring Through Husbandry
I dunno. I just have PC's eventually buy a wagon, get a cook/driver and give him a little protection, and have the NPC mind the gear/food while the PC's do their thing. They can buy horses, but really taking them into a fight is a bad idea unless the horses are combat trained and you have a decent PC rider with Mounted Combat.
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Take as many horse corpses as you can, keep them in a bag of holding. Flick the bag and throw horses at people, or make a barricade of dead horses and shoot from behind it.
Early on, I have more trouble with purchased animals being better at murderhoboing than the PCs. Later on, most PCs end up using spells for transportation and extradimensional spaces for carrying capacity.
I just don't leave my donkey tied up directly outside the dungeon and put a small amount of effort into concealing its location from likely routes of passersby. If it dies anyways? I generally make sure to have a potion of Ant Haul ready, so it's back to town to buy a new donkey (and a new potion). My character might be upset but out of game I'm not that bummed about being down 58gp.
From the DM perspective, I don't handwave pack animals but I treat it kind of like how I treat carrying capacity - if the players put in the effort, I don't look too closely into the details. Those hired guards might not actually be able to take on any enemy that frequents the area but it's more about the players showing that they're not giving their horses the Blackwing treatment.
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Call every one Roach and pretend nothing happened.
Y'know with all the fun in this thread no one actually mentioned the one spell that addresses the problem from level 1: Mount
I didn't?
Alternatively, you can use the mount and phantom steed spells.
The spell doesn't last long enough to be useful. It's what, 2 hours per caster level? That won't get useful until the PC's are of a relatively high level and can afford real mounts.
Depends on the situation. It may be not enough for overland travel, but for transporting loot from a dungeon to the closest town, it should suffice.
I dunno, I've never had a town close by a dungeon before. Most of the time there's limited access to shops in the APs it seems.
The spell doesn't last long enough to be useful. It's what, 2 hours per caster level? That won't get useful until the PC's are of a relatively high level and can afford real mounts.
Extend Spell.
A wizard 3 with Extend Spell can scribe (since they have Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 1st level)* a scroll of Extended mount for 75 gp. The mount lasts 12 hours.
Besides, for the same cost the wizard can also scribe a scroll of Extended mage armor that lasts for 6 hours. And lets them prepare other spells in their spell slots when they actually go adventuring.
As they get into middle levels, a lesser rod of extend metamagic is pretty affordable (3,000 gp) and comes in extremely handy with a lot of standard buff spells (barkskin, resist energy, greater magic weapon, heroism, etc.), as well.
For non-casters, there is (with GM permission) always the custom magic item route: an Extended mount 1/day command word item that takes up an item slot (i.e., a "bracelet of horse calling") has a market price of 2,160 gp.
*- outside of PFS
I dunno, I've never had a town close by a dungeon before. Most of the time there's limited access to shops in the APs it seems.
A lot of the APs have pretty consistent shop access. They tend to provide lots of opportunities to be in a town between major encounters.
Oh hey, this might help the OP and everyone else. There was a magic item back in 3.5's Magic of Faerun that was incredibly useful and cheap. It greatly reduces water weight and dry rations.
Travel Cloak
Costs 1200gp base cost. CL 3 (create food and water was one of the spells)
Cold resistance 5
Sheds precipitation down to the knees.
Provides trail rations (or wandermeals, or racial trail rations if you wish) for one each day.
Provides either cool spring water or sugared hot tea up to 2 gallons each day using a hidden pocket inside the cloak which has a small metal flask contained therein.
Turns into a one man tent once a day.
Weighs one pound.
With this item, all you really need while traveling is a sleeping bag, winter outfit for the harshest arctic level cold and you are good to go. If the GM wants, it could be a heirloom passed down from your family, but you really should still pay for it out of your treasure.
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As a GM I like to make sure the players are aware such things can happen (and that they need to carry food and water, and other "logistical" things that a lot of groups just ignore). But it's not something you should be doing constantly.
As a player, my favorite solution to the problem is also the easiest for a lot of groups. When the new (to us) PFS GM asked if we were leaving our animals unattended outside the dungeon we said "yes." The paladin added "including my bonded mount horse" and the wizard chimed in "should I leave my familiar too?"
It does wonders when the animals can guard themselves.
Barring that, spells like alarm, selective alarm, or anything that creates a mental link can alert you when your animals are coming under attack. The grooms can keep off the minor pests but you'll be able to get back for the really bad stuff.
You should also understand at what level certain challenges stop being a challenge:
Level 5: With some degree of planning a party can trivialise the challenge of having enough food and water. 1 casting of Create Food and Water will create 3 days worth of food and water for your standard 5 man party. If your party can plan to have a minimal risk free day for 1 day every 4 days they can afford to spend a 3rd level they can have free food indefinitely.
Level 9: Food and Water can be overcome with an insignificant cost (1 spell slot of Create Food and Water). The party can also devote some resources to casting mount without crippling themselves in terms of power level. Overland Flight also comes online at this level which typically sees arcane casters flying for most if not all of the adventuring day which cuts down on the need of mounts.
By 9th level it isn't "taking it easy" to avoid attacking the group's mounts. It's "not getting bogged down in trivial time wasting" to avoid attacking their mounts. Or do you also keep track of rations and non-magical arrows at this level as well?
I do, as GM, have players keep close track of arrows and rations/water even into the upper levels. Every now and then, I do an audit.
I do, as GM, have players keep close track of arrows and rations/water even into the upper levels. Every now and then, I do an audit.
Well if they have fun with that kudos to them. But it's certainly bookkeeping that I wouldn't enjoy keeping track of (let alone performing audits!)
Have your PCs ever requested using the Living Costs rules? Scratch off 100 gp/month and they stop having to track things like inn costs (so long as they're sensible about where they stay) and most meals. Put up as much of a markup as you like to cover things like consumable spell components for casters and arrows for non-casters (200 gp/month would even be reasonable). Make them buy an efficient quiver at higher levels so they can justify shooting a million arrows per combat.
No more time consuming bookkeeping and audits.
I do, as GM, have players keep close track of arrows and rations/water even into the upper levels. Every now and then, I do an audit.Well if they have fun with that kudos to them. But it's certainly bookkeeping that I wouldn't enjoy keeping track of (let alone performing audits!)
Normally I end up leveling up the PC's in order to save time and prevent mistakes. At the same time, I do an audit of sorts.
There are magic items that provide a steady supply of food, water, arrows/bolts you know.
I do, as GM, have players keep close track of arrows and rations/water even into the upper levels. Every now and then, I do an audit.Well if they have fun with that kudos to them. But it's certainly bookkeeping that I wouldn't enjoy keeping track of (let alone performing audits!)Normally I end up leveling up the PC's in order to save time and prevent mistakes. At the same time, I do an audit of sorts.
There are magic items that provide a steady supply of food, water, arrows/bolts you know.
Well if that's how you enjoy the game more power to you. But you are hampering your groups ability to learn the rules by making their character for them.
As a player, my favorite solution to the problem is also the easiest for a lot of groups. When the new (to us) PFS GM asked if we were leaving our animals unattended outside the dungeon we said "yes." The paladin added "including my bonded mount horse" and the wizard chimed in "should I leave my familiar too?"It does wonders when the animals can guard themselves.
That's a good point. Also, guard animals are relatively cheap and should be enough to discourage pets, if you've invested in Handle Animal. A guard dog (or a combat-trained baboon) is around 25gp. A few of those will send a message to passers-by and "gently discourage" them from trying to purloin your supplies.
Naw, the players still make all the choices, I just do the numerical stuff so they don't screw themselves over. It also speeds things up, since I don't want to waste game time in leveling.
Nope, you need mounts to haul off the loot, remember? Maybe some mules and a wagon, along with a driver/cook to take care of them and feed the PC's.
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Does anyone make a campsite in their games? Like, you get to the dungeon, find an entrance, then backtrack like a couple hundred yards using the Survival skill to hide your tracks.
...
Why go to all that trouble when there’s perfectly good magic to do it for you?
Hide CampsiteGrove of Respite
Does anyone make a campsite in their games? Like, you get to the dungeon, find an entrance, then backtrack like a couple hundred yards using the Survival skill to hide your tracks.
...Why go to all that trouble when there’s perfectly good magic to do it for you?
Hide Campsite
Grove of Respite
Why not put the party skill monkey to good use, instead of blowing spell slots?
Magic can do many things better than mundane means can. Ask yourself then, why isn't everything done with magic? The answer is: because casters have better things to do. Like scorching goblins with fireballs.
Once spell slots become common enough to solve daily problems there are much fewer uses for a mundane Skill Monkey in a game. The best hope is that your prepared spell casters have not done their homework and you can solve the hole in their spell selection with a skill.
Oh, and that they haven't just bought a wand of "Solve Skill Check" in whatever flavor it happens to be in today.