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I have recently made a new guide for the Medium class, available here.
Unlike what I have often found on the internet, it gives advice to be able to use all spirits, without focusing only on one of them.
You can discuss it here, or make suggestions directly on the guide.
I'm assuming that this is the thread you want to be the new discussion thread for this guide -- linking this thread in the thread where you first introduced it.
Good guide, I liked that you pushed more on the versatility and using all spirits instead of focusing only in one. Although both styles, versatility vs focusing, are rewarded with the Medium class.
Just noticed that there is no mention of the Channel Spirit feat, which is the ultimate way to accomplish versatility during the day.
For a Medium that feat is pure gold, forget the NPC part because you can easily manage the amount of time to spend channeling (five minutes for example, equaling to five minutes of NPCing, which the GM probably wont bother).
Finally, you cannot combine Spirit Dancer with FiendKeeper archetypes, as both alter the Spirit class feature.
Would be good to see a part in your guide of ProTips on what to do/choose for each spirit, like what set of spells are good in certain situations for Hierophant and Archmage, or what skill put ranks and what other skills are best to leave with no ranks to use later with Trickster spirit
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So you say a lot in there that the strength is switching and that you shouldn't pick a main spirit or something like that. But you never go into why you feel this way and how it'll work out? Why is swapping around a lot better then focusing in on one and having the others there as back-up when you feel like it?
Ok, there are several points here :
- the channel spirit feat : the rules are not clear to me, there is a discussion here. I will try to look at what it actually does.
- cannot combine Spirit Dancer with FiendKeeper archetypes : ok, my bad
- spell advise for hierophant and archmage : I have put a reduced list of spells already, I am open to adding more spells
- skill advise : Yes, the guide is not quite complete, I might do it later
- big one, why switching spirits ? I mainly have two reasons that I mention in the introduction "First, because it would go against the concept of the class and remove a part of fun, and secondly because your favorite spirit will not always be available."
If you are confident you can channel your favourite spirit most of the time (because of the scenario or some archetype), then it is perfectly viable to focus on it.
I have just added a note on that.
Chess Pwn wrote: So you say a lot in there that the strength is switching and that you shouldn't pick a main spirit or something like that. But you never go into why you feel this way and how it'll work out? Why is swapping around a lot better then focusing in on one and having the others there as back-up when you feel like it?
I will give more details on that.
After having played using several spirits, I have found myself being very useful very often:
- The champion provides very good damage.
- The hierophant keeps my party alive, and saves money on healing items. It is excellent against the undead, and there are days when we know that we will fight undead creatures. I really appreciate having selective channeling during those days.
- The marshal provides very good damage and magical spirit surges on high stakes rolls.
- Occasionally, the archmage shines in combat and it is much more comfortable to be able to keep my armor.
I am proficient with the weapon I use, even without a champion spirit.
The cost of being efficient with all spirits does not seem very high :
- 1 point of influence for legendary influence, this is something
- a focus on charisma, but that is useful anyway for your spellcasting
- no specialised gear but you can still use medium armor, heavy shield, and some weapon for which you have proficiency (racial proficiency or natural attacks for example)
So, even if you completely ignore the fun aspect and the favored location limitation, it still seems quite good to keep the versatility, or at least viable.
Rayfa wrote:
- the channel spirit feat : the rules are not clear to me, there is a discussion here. I will try to look at what it actually does.
What about then, pressing the FAQ button on that link?
Meet you there to talk more about that feat
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Just about to finish Hell's Rebels (Great AP). Iv'e been playing my medium the whole way through.
My thoughts on versatility (Which I 100% agree with in theory)
I wish I played her more versatile, but I found the champion to just be so darn strong. Now we had a healer, rogue and wizard, so niche wise Champion, Guardian or even Marshal could be good daily picks.
And occasional I dabbled in The Worlds Greatest Detective or Tuxedo Mask. But mostly I found my way back to champion every time. The bonus to hit and damage is just to good to pass up (pounce, extra attack etc, etc). If your filling that martial/combat role for the party its hard to justify picking something else.
Martial can make certain roleplaying encounters (the rolling aspect anyway) ridiculous. They swing rolls hard in general So if your not the only front liner its not a bad choice.
I just wish the guardian had a bit better of a showing. I really wanted to focus on that spirit (Solid choice for trance of the 3 though), but we run a tough campaign and you are a tornado or horror and death as a champion.
Love the class over all, personally, but if I were to give vague general analysis... I would nerf (change) the champion a teeny bit, buff Guardian a lot, too much to say on what I would do with heirophent and archmage. Martial's fine and trickster needs a little work, but is close to being really solid.
btw I wish I had your guide when we started the AP. I was annoyed that every bit of writing on the class was PLAY CHAMPIO11!!!1!!. There's some truth to it, but its such a cool class and the other spirits are really worth trying.
Thanks for the guide (and pointing out the spirit bound armor enhancement) If there is a more recent guide sorry for the Necro.
Any new ideas on the guardian spirit? I would love to play it a little.
For trickster I have the frightening ambush feat and eventually shattered defenses to keep enemies flat footed and the malevolent armor upgrade for accuracy and damage boost.
A note from the future: Here's a bit of cheese. Warning: This is Limburger = Weapons-Grade Cheese. As noted in the guide, if you are Half-Elven, Paragon Surge is on your spell list; furthermore, it is a Transmutation spell that normally lasts 1 minute per level, and gets you temporary use of a feat that you qualify for. This can be any feat you qualify for, not just a Combat Feat. Meanwhile, the Shapechanger Sorcerer Bloodline 3rd level Bloodline Power extends any Transmutation spell that normally lasts 1 minute per level to 10 minutes per level and later to 1 hour per level. You can use this to gain a Metamagic Feat you don't have; or if you already have Metamagic Feats, you could use it to gain Spontaneous Metafocus; or you could use it to get one or two spells you don't have (provided that they are on your spell list) by way of Expanded Arcana (and if you need to use it to get an extra spell known of the highest level you can cast, you are at worst only shooting yourself in the foot for 1 day instead of the rest of your career); and finally, and starting at 9th level, you can use it to get an Item Crafting Feat that you don't have, and your 3rd level Bloodline Power makes it last long enough for you to do a day's crafting. Now here's the thing with Medium: You are a Charisma-based spellcaster, so you are almost guaranteed to have the charisma to get Eldritch Heritage (Shapechanger), and you will easily have the charisma to get Improved Eldritch Heritage (Shapechanger) by the time you get to be high enough level to take it . . . which is conveniently at exactly the same as the level at which the increase in duration of Transmutation spells from 1 minute per level to 1 hour per level occurs (since you get this 2 levels behind a Sorcerer who actually has the Shapechanger Bloodline), and 1 level after you become high enough level to cast Paragon Surge. Being Charisma-based and having access to the Trickster Spirit means that even the prerequisite feat Skill Focus (Disguise) is not necessarily totally useless as anything other than a prerequisite. This awesomely cheesy combination should bump Half-Elf up to at least Blue.
"As with the hierophant, gaining the spells per day of a 6th-level spellcaster is extremely good because your medium spells are lower level than they would be for a true 6th-level spellcaster, which means that you are better than a true 6th level spellcaster."
I could be wrong - the way I read it is that both the hierophant and the archmage get spells per day from the Mesmerist table which is less than a true 6th-level caster.
As a 6th-level Medium, you don't even have access to 3rd-level Divine or Arcane spells and only 1 1st-level Medium spell (assuming you can even cast your Medium spells still which I am still unsure of)
I would LOVE to be wrong about this as I am currently playing a 4th-level Hobgoblin Medium (and loving it).
Chark the Shark wrote: "As with the hierophant, gaining the spells per day of a 6th-level spellcaster is extremely good because your medium spells are lower level than they would be for a true 6th-level spellcaster, which means that you are better than a true 6th level spellcaster."
I could be wrong - the way I read it is that both the hierophant and the archmage get spells per day from the Mesmerist table which is less than a true 6th-level caster.
As a 6th-level Medium, you don't even have access to 3rd-level Divine or Arcane spells and only 1 1st-level Medium spell (assuming you can even cast your Medium spells still which I am still unsure of)
I would LOVE to be wrong about this as I am currently playing a 4th-level Hobgoblin Medium (and loving it).
he may be saying that Medium list 4th level spells are only at higher level on other lists, and while normally Mediums don’t access them until 13th level, when they go Hierophant they jump ahead to 7th level. There is some truth to that, with a handful of decent spells that are 3rd or 4th on the medium list but don’t show up until higher levels for others (e.g., True Seeing), but overall the list isn’t good and there aren’t a lot of those lower-for-Mediums that are that exciting. Haste and Heroism as 2nd level spells is nice, sort of Bardy there.
NEW MEDIUM GUIDE LETS GOOOO
Good to have some free Medium guide stuff out there for PF1e, Rayfa. ;)
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