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I don't have any specific answers -but curious about what are some folks favorite less common spells to buy and carry scrolls, potions or oils of? Not routine ones like lesser restoration or breath of life etc but ones that are more obscure yet surprisingly useful to buy and carry - especially interested in useful oils as I rarely think about buying those.
Please also note if this is something useful throughout a career, at low levels, mid levels or especially at high levels (where buying more costly potions, oils or even scrolls may be viable options)
Scrolls of
Carry Companion (for anyone with a large AC)
Riffle communal resist energy (gets CL7 for 20 resistance)
Life bubble (level 4 druid spell, available for 2pp)
Heroism (it is always useful, lots of classes can cast it)
Touch of the Sea/Monkey Fish/Air Bubble/Alter Self (various cheap ways to deal with swimming and climbing)
Potions/Oils of:
Daylight (screw you deeper darkness)
Gaseous Form (say no to grapples)
Remove Blindness (no CL check, scrolls are hard to read when blind)
Strong Jaw (technically illegal but green lighted by Mike Brock ages ago)
all good suggestions - any more obscure ones? Or ones from more recent books that people might not be as familiar with but which have utility as a potion/oil or scroll?
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Personally, I think any potions should be for low level stuff and scrolls for things you don't want to memorize but can be useful. Both are good for recovery.
Potions are mainly for non-spell casters to access spell effects. Wondrous items are more cost effective but the price point is much higher. Action economy when characters need it NOW to self apply. Main offense problem is potions only affect opponents if they want them to *GAH!*.
Scrolls again are spell storage devices and good for something that you don't need 50 charges for in a Wand (again price point and what you will use versus overhead). More cost effective than potions but relies on the party caster or rogue to activate. Not as useful IN combat for self application. Main offense problem is LOW DCs, so mainly things you cast on friends; recovery, buffs, environment, and information gathering spells.
while getting things out of a backpack takes the same time as getting it out of a bandolier... the bandolier(0.5gp) makes some practical sense and that's good for a home game environment. Obviously a handy Haversack is the magical tool that solves many issues accessing items in a timely manner.
*whew* that was awfully practical. lol...
see Items that can save you
Heightened awareness
Lesser angelic aspect
Honeyed tongue
Righteous vigor
Weapon of awe
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* #1 potion of cure light wounds 50gp.
* Potion Sponge with Air Bubble 1@1 52gp. {note: Spl Lvl @ Cstr Lvl [charges]}
* Oil of Mending 0@1 25gp. Way faster than 10 minutes.
* Vitriol of Bleed 0@1 25gp. A cheap nasty poison for those final strikes. Remember unconscious means no choice on activation. {home GM approval required}
* Potion of Hide From Undead 1@1 50gp. Handy in mausoleums or theaters and better than Sanctuary.
* Potion of Feather Step 1@1 50gp.
* Vitriol of Touch of Bloodletting 1@1 50gp. Double Ouch. 1@3 probably best... {home GM approval required}
* Monks and scrolls of Mage Armor...
* Scroll of Endure Elements 1@1 [5] 125gp. Not worth memorizing.
* Scroll of Sum Mon 1 1@1. Trap springers.
* Scroll of Unseen Servant 1@1. Quick access to items and helper for mages.
* Scroll of Pass w/o Trace 1@1. Trail breaker and scentless sneaking trail (keep moving!).
* Scroll of Technomancy 1 1@1. So infrequent not worth memorizing.
* Scroll of Reduce Person 1@1. Some times you gotta sneak...
* Scroll of Nature's Paths 1@1. Who needs a compass & map...
* Scroll of Forced Quiet 1@3-5 75-150gp. Silent metamagic or sneaking. Not practical at Cstr Lvl 1.
* Scroll of Share Language 1@1. A bit more practical for live targets.
* Scroll of Lesser Restoration 2@3[5] 750gp(or 2PP in PFS).
* Scroll of Dimension Door 4@7 700gp(2PP). Hail Mary we are outta here!
* Scroll of Breath of Life 5@9 1125gp. Spring-loaded wrist sheath to make it practical.
A recent one I came across for Witches and Shamans, Akashic Communion. Level 3 spell, gives a +10 insight bonus on 1 knowledge check per 3 caster levels and treats you as trained. 2 castings for 2pp for those scenario crucial checks you need to pass to secure your secondary prestige point.
There is a chance you get wildly inaccurate information if you roll a 1 and the GM rolls your check in secret.
Stephen Ross wrote:
* Oil of Mending 0@1 25gp. Way faster than 10 minutes.
* Scroll of Breath of Life 5@9 1125gp. Spring-loaded wrist sheath to make it practical.
Potions (and presumably oils) can only contain a spell with a casting time of less than one minute.
Expect table variation on putting scrolls in a spring-loaded wrist sheath.
andreww wrote: A recent one I came across for Witches and Shamans, Akashic Communion. Level 3 spell, gives a +10 insight bonus on 1 knowledge check per 3 caster levels and treats you as trained. 2 castings for 2pp for those scenario crucial checks you need to pass to secure your secondary prestige point. In PFS, you have to buy it off the wizard list (or cleric or druid, if applicable.) That would make it a 4th-level scroll. Plus, it's got an expensive material component (100gp), which would raise the price to 800gp/scroll - just outside of PP range.
Curses, I missed that it was also on the wizard list.
I like to carry oil of bless weapon for when I need to make my weapon good aligned (bonus is that crit threats are automatically confirmed).
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Scrolls:
*Ant Haul (level 1) - useful if someone takes Strength damage, or you just have to get something heavy moved before the end of the scenario.
*Technomancy (level 1) - one scroll per item to identify, but you're probably not going to ever need enough to get a wand.
*Kreighton's Perusal (level 1) - might help in certain research-based scenarios, and it's cheap enough to be worth it
*Comprehend Languages (level 1) - it WILL come up at some point, but probably not enough for a wand
*Invigorate (level 1) - if you can cast this, carry a couple around. The barbarian will thank you if the adventure throws out random fatiguing effects
*Remove Fear (level 1) - keep your buddy from running off in a panic during the final encounter
*Unwelcome Halo (level 1) - if you have a non-good character in the party, this will probably cut through even Deeper Darkness (and is quite cheap)
*Nature's Paths (level 1) - might be better as a wand, depending. Two targets per scroll move overland faster for one day
*Residual Tracking (level 1) - not on many spell lists, but useful for figuring out exactly what you're tracking. Note that, because of its casting time, it is not eligible for use as a potion.
*Flurry of Snowballs (level 2) - fairly cheap anti-swarm scroll, once you start outgrowing Alchemists' Fires. 5 casts for 2PP.
*See Invisibility (level 2) - because when this comes up, you really need it. Follow it up with a scroll of Glitterdust (level 2) so everyone else can see invis for 3 rounds
*Suppress Charms and Compulsions (level 2) - did your fighter just get Dominated? Put a stop to that before he starts Power Attacking. A riffle scroll boosts the caster level enough to get two targets with a single cast.
*Lesser Restoration (level 2) - bring a few
*Heart of the Metal (level 3) - a scroll of this attuned to adamantine costs 475gp, but makes 5 weapons adamantine for 5 minutes. Can be a lifesaver
*Revelation (level 3) - gives you +5 Disable Device or on whatever checks you need to solve a puzzle. Doesn't last long, but a nice boost for certain types
Potions and Oils:
*Bless Weapon (level 1) - cheap anti-incorporeal
*Invigorate (level 1) - if you can't cast it, bring one along. Especially if you like raging
*Touch of the Sea (level 1) - add a potion sponge for 2gp
*Daylight (level 3) - because if you need this, you probably won't be able to read a scroll
*Fly (level 3) - good for melee types, but be aware of the rules for flying (and your fly skill modifier)
*Remove Blindness/Deafness (level 3) - because it's hard to read a scroll when you're blind
Versatile Weapon (3rd level Wizard) - allows weapon to bypass (count as) most DR.
I'm not sure the Unwelcome Halo would negate higher than first level light/darkness effects. The language is a bit ambiguous but I think the intention of the light rules is that higher level effects prevail without a specific named exception
Rycaut wrote: I'm not sure the Unwelcome Halo would negate higher than first level light/darkness effects. The language is a bit ambiguous but I think the intention of the light rules is that higher level effects prevail without a specific named exception it uses daylight, which has the specifically named exception.
Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I play(ed?) an occultist at high levels who had invested in UMD and filled xer bag with scrolls from any/all classes. Some of my highlights:
Scroll of Planeshift tuned to the material plane
Scroll of Planeshift tuned to a friendly plane (I typically go with the Hao Jin Tapestry or Utopia)
Scrolls of dimension door
Scrolls of Mass Cure Light Wounds for high level play - if an AoE takes people down, having a way to stabilize most of the party is key
Scrolls of Tiny Hut
Scrolls of Gust of Wind
Potion of mage armor for whenever you encounter the pesky Shadow - or get caught without your armor...
Stephen Ross wrote: ...
* Oil of Mending 0@1 25gp. Way faster than 10 minutes.
...
* Scroll of Breath of Life 5@9 1125gp. Spring-loaded wrist sheath to make it practical.
shaventalz wrote: Potions (and presumably oils) can only contain a spell with a casting time of less than one minute.
Expect table variation on putting scrolls in a spring-loaded wrist sheath.
I do not see a 1 min casting time restriction in Brew Potion or under Magic Item Creation, or in the CRB FAQ... is that an errata? The current PRD entry also lacks that restriction.
Fitting a scroll in a wrist sheath should be a no brainer, but yes, there are some restrictive GMs out there. Have your scrolls written by halflings... lol... or use Cypher Script feat.
I pretty much stuck to 1st level spells as that's where you will get effective use. Going up in level and cost reduces that effectiveness... use your arcane or divine caster in the party.
Stephen Ross wrote:
I do not see a 1 min casting time restriction in Brew Potion or under Magic Item Creation... is that an errata? The current PRD entry also lacks that restriction.
It's in the PRD in the Potions section. Right where it gives the limit to spell level and target, 4th sentence in.
Here
Stephen Ross wrote: I do not see a 1 min casting time restriction in Brew Potion or under Magic Item Creation... is that an errata? The current PRD entry also lacks that restriction.
Fitting a scroll in a wrist sheath should be a no brainer, but yes, there are some restrictive GMs out there. Have your scrolls written by halflings... lol... or use Cypher Script feat.
It's one of those rules that's sitting in a completely separate place - in this case, the Potions section.
And physically fitting the scroll into the wrist sheath isn't usually the problem. It's the GM saying "your scroll turns into confetti from the shock."
DrakeRoberts wrote: Stephen Ross wrote:
I do not see a 1 min casting time restriction in Brew Potion or under Magic Item Creation... is that an errata? The current PRD entry also lacks that restriction.
It's in the PRD in the Potions section. Right where it gives the limit to spell level and target, 4th sentence in.
Here ahhh, that's why it didn't turn up in my search. different wording on a different webpage, just as convenient as the original!
It's a reasonable restriction. ahh well...
shaventalz wrote: Stephen Ross wrote: I do not see a 1 min casting time restriction in Brew Potion or under Magic Item Creation... is that an errata? The current PRD entry also lacks that restriction.
Fitting a scroll in a wrist sheath should be a no brainer, but yes, there are some restrictive GMs out there. Have your scrolls written by halflings... lol... or use Cypher Script feat.
It's one of those rules that's sitting in a completely separate place - in this case, the Potions section.
And physically fitting the scroll into the wrist sheath isn't usually the problem. It's the GM saying "your scroll turns into confetti from the shock." your response is correct but ninja'd.
Shredding a scroll is totally bogus as the sheath does no damage to the object contained. To be truthful such a GM just wants an action economy restriction probably based on the price of the sheath. Put a wand in it and ditch the scroll, now you have 50 in it that doesn't provoke for a higher entry cost.
Getting a Scroll Breath of Life 5@9 with Reach metamagic goes to 6@11 but overcomes the obvious action economy issue.
a Scroll of Bear Endur (Con) with Reach metamagic can be a lifesaver at range and cheaper....
Most of my standards have already been mentioned.
Not obscure, but I think everyone should carry these scrolls/potions/wands, even if they can't use them. Just pass them to someone else who can:
Cure Light Wounds
Endure Elements
Comprehend Languages
Oil of Daylight by level 3 or 4
Another good one that I rarely see anyone bother with is Identify. For when your initial spellcraft check to id an item rolls low. You can get a wand for 2 PP.
shaventalz wrote: Stephen Ross wrote: I do not see a 1 min casting time restriction in Brew Potion or under Magic Item Creation... is that an errata? The current PRD entry also lacks that restriction.
Fitting a scroll in a wrist sheath should be a no brainer, but yes, there are some restrictive GMs out there. Have your scrolls written by halflings... lol... or use Cypher Script feat.
It's one of those rules that's sitting in a completely separate place - in this case, the Potions section.
And physically fitting the scroll into the wrist sheath isn't usually the problem. It's the GM saying "your scroll turns into confetti from the shock." the funniest part of the "your scroll turns into confetti from the shock." statement from some Judges is that scrolls are made of "..a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper...". Vellum is leather, fine quality and all that, but still leather. And it really would take A LOT of effort to damage it, let alone turn it into confetti. Lindybeige has a Youtube about "ripping up a vellum scroll" - pointing out how wrong Hollywood gets it, and how funny the Villain would look as he struggles to rip a vellum scroll up by hand. It might just be fun to bring a vellum scroll with me to a CON and see how much fun we can have with it...
Fromper wrote: Another good one that I rarely see anyone bother with is Identify. For when your initial spellcraft check to id an item rolls low. You can get a wand for 2 PP. Check the listing for Spellcraft. Using detect magic or identify only gets you one check per item per day. Additional attempts give you the same result, so no identify retries.
Muse. wrote: the funniest part of the "your scroll turns into confetti from the shock." statement from some Judges is that scrolls are made of "..a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper...". Vellum is leather, fine quality and all that, but still leather. And it really would take A LOT of effort to damage it, let alone turn it into confetti. The scrolls are reinforced at the top/bottom, too. Still, it's not worth arguing with the GM over. Just be aware that multiple GMs have run it that way. Know your local environment before buying a scroll for 1125gp that might not be usable.
Stephen Ross wrote: Getting a Scroll Breath of Life 5@9 with Reach metamagic goes to 6@11 but overcomes the obvious action economy issue.
a Scroll of Bear Endur (Con) with Reach metamagic can be a lifesaver at range and cheaper....
I thought in PFS you couldn't buy metamagiced versions of spells for wands/scrolls/etc. Did I make that rule up?
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Everyone always mentions Oil of Daylight, but for 10PP you can get a Dayfinder. That's usually a staple for my characters.
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but sanctify corpse is nice if you fight many undead.
*dang* I did miss the Role Playing Guild sneaky title (too used to PFS moniker)... it is light... I was assuming home game. I did wonder why my title showed up... lol...
Riffle scrolls get a pass (they are metamagic scrolls).
I don't know offhand if they are banned. I really don't know why you would, it's kinda standard, but then again I understand the magic system. Amusingly I rarely use potions as they are an expensive option for spellcasters thus I hit the 1 min casting time(PF rulz), even in 3.5 games I didn't take brew potion as you bypass it so quickly. Attune Gem, now THERES a feat worth taking. It's why I have to chant PFS is a simple game...
You'll notice I did keep things mostly simple as I think that works best in this kinda format.
This isn't a Rules thread so I'm being rather chatty and casual.
Most of the options are just overhead that your character will probably never use in PFS. Just gold sitting in a potion not being used.
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Reach breath of life scrolls don't exist in PFS however there is a new level 6 ranged breath of life spell, Inspiring Recovery.
You can out me in the camp of scrolls not working in wrist sheathes and the impression I get is that I am far from alone.
andreww wrote: Reach breath of life scrolls don't exist in PFS however there is a new level 6 ranged breath of life spell, Inspiring Recovery.
You can out me in the camp of scrolls not working in wrist sheathes and the impression I get is that I am far from alone.
I did look at Inspiring Recovery 6@11 1650gp, but didn't mention it here.
Gloves of First Aid 4500gp give you 2 Breath of Life as a touch.
Essentially you're getting to a price where there are options, and there are other options. This veers away from potions and scrolls so I'll end it there.
I think characters should avoid critical situations in the first place. Retreat is sensible, cheap, and keeps your PC alive.
Very true, too often I see groups refusing to run when it is clear they should. Part of that is it is difficult to retreat within the rules unless you are evacuating using magic. Part of it is stubborn boneheadedness.
Slightly off topic, but I no longer use potions at all. Oils can be used just as easily, and are able to be applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc.
On topic, I have 2 characters that carry scrolls of teleport. Expensive, but in some scenarios make doing secondary objectives easier, and allows for evac of wounded/dead party members in a bad spot.
oil of grease - best low level way to escape tentacles, grapples and similar.. for those run away moments...
Potion of Speak Local Language (from Heroes of the Streets, 1st level) prepared by a native speaker from whatever land you are planning to visit. Only provides one human language, but works for 10 minutes.
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No love for Aram Zey's Focus? Gives trapfinding as a rogue of half your character level (not caster level), and a chance to avoid triggering the trap when you roll low enough to trigger it. It's a personal spell, so no potions, but otherwise it's great for characters that have the ranks to put into Disable Device but don't have trapfinding, otherwise.
I had my warlock vigilante pick up a wand of it before playing Tomb of the Iron Medusa; I'd been having him prep it every day, but the wand meant freeing up a second level slot, and I didn't have to worry about how many magical traps we encountered in a single day.
Unwelcome Halo doesn't appear to use Daylight. It has a rule in it about negating magical darkness. But I thought that the general rule was only that such effects would work on effects of the same or lower spell levels.
Some good suggestions here thanks.
Rycaut wrote: Unwelcome Halo doesn't appear to use Daylight. Unwelcome halo: If unwelcome halo is brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa), the effects of both spells are temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist within the overlapping fields of effect.
Daylight: Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.
It is absolute cheese and slipped through development, but yes, unwelcome halo works just like daylight. No ifs and or buts.
BigNorseWolf wrote: Rycaut wrote: Unwelcome Halo doesn't appear to use Daylight. Unwelcome halo: If unwelcome halo is brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa), the effects of both spells are temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist within the overlapping fields of effect.
Daylight: Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.
It is absolute cheese and slipped through development, but yes, unwelcome halo works just like daylight. No ifs and or buts. Yes, I noticed that one, and sometimes I'll target a party member to get the darkness to go away.
Regarding scrolls and wrist sheaths..
Wrist Sheath wrote: This is a sheath designed to be strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long sleeve. The sheath can hold one forearmlength item, such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts. "Such as" does indicate other items may also qualify, but it's really up to the GM to make a final decision about which other items fit on that list.
see http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lhfm?Illuminating-Darkness in the comments for an extended discussion about Unwelcome Halo - specifically that per Mark Seifter "It's not in the RPG line, so the design team can't officially clarify on it. That said, it sure looks like it does, which, granted, puts it far outside the expected power level of a 1st-level spell."
IMHO that suggests that for PFS purposes it probably shouldn't be allowed and in a home game I would probably weaken the spell as having a 1st level spell that has the same power level as a far higher spell (along with some additional features) seems overpowered.
That said it is worth noting that it only has this effect in the overlapping areas - however it isn't entirely clear if the range of Unwelcome Halo's effect is the 20 feet radius of the "normal" light effect it generates - or the additional 20 feet beyond that where it raises light levels by one level for purposes of negating magical darkness.
The limitations of targeting a non-good target don't seem to unmanageable for most PFS tables (if casting on a willing ally vs casting on an enemy)
SCPRedMage wrote: No love for Aram Zey's Focus? Gives trapfinding as a rogue of half your character level (not caster level), and a chance to avoid triggering the trap when you roll low enough to trigger it. It's a personal spell, so no potions, but otherwise it's great for characters that have the ranks to put into Disable Device but don't have trapfinding, otherwise. It's OK, but only just. Since Trapfinding doesn't normally upgrade until Rogue 4, you're stuck with +1 until character level 8, then +3 at level 12. The skill bonus is weak for a 2nd-level spell; the main thing is that it gives Trapfinding at all. If the character can't disable magic traps, still heavily invested in Disable Device, and can cast this spell... it might be usable twice in a normal dungeon.
shaventalz wrote: If the character can't disable magic traps, still heavily invested in Disable Device, and can cast this spell... it might be usable twice in a normal dungeon. ..or use UMD to cast the scroll. That describes every ninja, half the rogues (that archtyped out trap finding), and half the faux rogue out there. The fact that you don't need to bring someone with that specific ability when you need it makes it the perfect scroll to buy and stick in your backpack till you need it. A scroll that replaces the only thing you still needed a rogue for is a game changer.
Aram Zey's Focus is on the alchemist list. They get Disable Device as a class skill but not Trapfinding. Investigators get both. On both cases it takes only a minute to brew an extract.
It's a really sweet deal for Empiricists.
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Quintin Verassi wrote: Slightly off topic, but I no longer use potions at all. Oils can be used just as easily, and are able to be applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc. It is my opinion that oils can only be made/purchased for spells which target objects.
PRD Potions wrote: The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the object is the target.
Michael Eshleman wrote:
It is my opinion that oils can only be made/purchased for spells which target objects.
PRD Potions wrote: The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the object is the target.
From your link:
PRD Potions wrote: it takes a full-round action to apply an oil to an unconscious creature. Oils aren't just for objects.
Matthew Downie wrote: Michael Eshleman wrote:
It is my opinion that oils can only be made/purchased for spells which target objects.
PRD Potions wrote: The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the object is the target.
From your link:
PRD Potions wrote: it takes a full-round action to apply an oil to an unconscious creature. Oils aren't just for objects. using an oil vs. a regular potion buys you what? realizing that both require a full-round action to "apply" to someone else ("an unconscious creature" etc.).
shaventalz wrote: Scrolls:
*Ant Haul (level 1) - useful if someone takes Strength damage,
Fun fact: Str damage doesn't affect carrying capacity in Pathfinder.
Muse. wrote:
using an oil vs. a regular potion buys you what? realizing that both require a full-round action to "apply" to someone else ("an unconscious creature" etc.).
more jokes about oiling up your companions?
Quintin Verassi wrote: Slightly off topic, but I no longer use potions at all. Oils can be used just as easily, and are able to be applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc.... this post seems to imply that at least some people think that Oils are better than regular potions because they "...are able to be applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc...".
But I thought regular potions could also be "...applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc"...?
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Muse. wrote:
But I thought regular potions could also be "...applied to teammates, NPCs, Mounts, Etc"...?
Some people have a problem with an animal companion drinking a potion, because its not a trick.
Although it begs the question as to how they're alive as there is no eat trick...
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