Star Wars The Last Jedi

[Rysky]

Spoiler:

People don’t act rational when they’re afraid/panicking.

As for the base I think they were hoping it had supplies, also the plan was that they’d focus on the big ship and miss the escape ones.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

This was the best Star War.

[MannyGoblin]

Werthead wrote:

Tacticslion wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

I am not arguing this is so, merely asking - I've not seen it, yet, and am just wondering if that's a part of it.

No, because

** spoiler omitted **

Use the spoilers Leia:

Having her switch places and be the one who does the hyperspace smash would have been an awesome way for her to go out.

[baron arem heshvaun]

Rogue One direct tie in to The Last Jedi.

[baron arem heshvaun]

Perhaps the greatest part of the movie for me.

In case you wish to read it after seeing the movie, here is the full conversation between

Spoiler:

Luke and Master Yoda

Luke: Master Yoda.

Master Yoda: Young Skywalker.

L: I'm ending all of this. The tree, the Text, the Jedi. I'm gonna burn it down.

- - -

Y: Ah, Skywalker. Missed you, have I.

L: So it is time for the Jedi Order to end.

Y: Time it is. For you to look past a pile of old books, hmm?

L: The sacred Jedi Texts.

Y: Oh. Read them, have you? Page-turners they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess. Skywalker, still looking to the horizon. Never here, now, hmm? The need in front of your nose.

L: I was weak. Unwise.

Y: Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not.

L: I can't be what she needs me to be.

Y: Heeded my words not, did you? Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.

What is important and funny here is that

Spoiler:

Master Yoda is well aware that Rey took the Jedi Texts with her for safe keeping. Master Yoda is TROLLING Luke.

Remains strong in The Force and the Sass, he has.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Spoiler:

The Force belongs to everybody now.

This is the best Star War.

[Thomas Seitz]

I still wanted Darth Bane. :P

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Spoiler:

This movie genuinely surprised people. Something Star Wars hasn't done in years.

This is the best Star War.

[JoelF847]

I thought this was a big bunch of meh. Pretty much everything not having to do with Luke, Rey, and Kylo Ren was somewhere between boring and useless. I will give it credit that there was little that was outright BAD with the movie, like the prequels had to various extents, but there wasn't too much of the movie that was good either.

As for specific things:

Spoiler:

1) I had a bad feeling about this movie as soon as I read the opening crawl. How did the end of Ep VII result in the beginning of Episode VIII? The rebels won, destroyed a major First Order base, and that caused the New Republic to fall and the Rebels to dwindle to just a few ships and people? Didn't seem that way at the end of VII at all.
2) How did the First Order track the rebel ships (I can't bear to call it the rebel fleet)? They just did.
3) Who was Snoke? Where did he come from after the death of the Emperor and Darth Vader's turning to the light side? He's been around for decades since he turned Ben somehow, and something twisted his face good, but for a character with that much power in the force and influence in the new trilogy, it felt pretty lame that we never heard anything about where he came from. Even if he wasn't connected to a previous character, or a clone, etc, having some info, like he was Luke's first padawan and went bad, then Luke again failed with Ben, would at least give him some place. Or a throwaway line that he came from the _____ system which was a haven for Sith for eons (and drops a fun hook for some future story to develop).
4) Rey's parents "reveal" Why build up that her parents were somehow significant if they are in fact completely not. Why have her have semi-repressed memories of other Jedi places if she wasn't in fact there before? Of course, Kylo's line about them being worthless junkers could be full of it in an attempt to have Rey join him, but the movie certainly tried hard to make it seem like it was the case.
5) Porgs, sure they weren't a major point, but they also didn't serve much purpose.
6) Salt foxes, pretty much the same, but at least looked cool. Why did they run into the abandoned rebel base (aside from providing a convenient path out later on), and why did the rebels let wild animals into their base?
7) Luke's 3 lessons - I'm pretty sure he only delivered 2.
8) Luke's reasons for thinking the Jedi were wrong and should die out (even though he sorta changed his mind at the end) - he vaguely got to this sort of, by saying everyone has the force in them, lets not have the Jedi hoard it and pretend to be above everyone else because of it, but that rings false for most of the rest of Star Wars. Sure, everyone has some amount of force, but most people aren't strong enough in it to do the things Jedi do. I was expecting a bit more here, since it was the central point of the whole movie.
9) The Last Jedi pretty much wasn't. Luke wasn't, Rey will become Jedi, and presumably teach a lot more people like that kid with the broom at the end. I don't mind mis-direction with marketing during a film's production, but having a title which is flat out wrong is pretty lame. I think it should be called "The Last Jedi....is not actually appearing in this movie."
10) Time and distance don't seem to matter in Star Wars anymore. That's how Han must have beaten the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs, since you can hyperspace to planets and back in 18 hours it seems from the middle of no where, while spending roughly 10 of those hours on the planet itself.
11) Why did Benicio Del Toro's character stutter? It's a pretty strong character trait to introduce for no reason, yet it was ignored. Was it insulting to people who stutter, or was it good for diversity to have a stutterer in the movie? I don't know, but it was distracting overall without some reason to have it there - was it a tell (or a fake tell that he then revealed to be done on purpose to fool people)? Was it the result of some accident that formed his character? Maybe we'll find out in Ep IX, but I doubt it.

[Rysky]

You don’t need a “reason” or justification to have any sort of impediment.

[Freehold DM]

Holy s+!@.

I f$&@ing LOVED this movie.

Spoiler:

You feel that? Yeah thats the FORCE! ROTFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Y Wings FOREVER:

I knew those clunky bombers at the beginning were going to fail. They weren't Y-Wings.

[Freehold DM]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

uh, no. She knows shes no leia, shes a figurehead at best. No respect from followers. People were deserting in massive numbers. I think bob was one of the guys mutining against her.

[Freehold DM]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

brushes dust off shoulder

[BigNorseWolf]

Freehold DM wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

She's battle of something admiral. So she's commanded troops and won, or at least done well Since Poe didn't immediately say "that screw up? Okay, the mutiny starts now...". Admirals are something the resistance is going to need if they want to wiin the war.

[shaventalz]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Freehold DM wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Only if there's enough others left to command. And working ships to be in command of.

Rebels on the run, dealing with used/secondhand/kitbashed ships probably need every engineer they can get. If you're down to a dozen ships, I think you can spare one of your commanders (especially if that commander apparently didn't give any kind of guidance or hope to those under her command.)

Besides, the New Republic lasted a few years. Probably long enough to have a couple political appointments here and there, or people "promoted" to Admiral just to get them out of the way of the real work.

[CapeCodRPGer]

I really loved it.

Spoiler:

In episode 7, when the First Order took out those like 4 planets, those planets were the main resistance. So it was a big blow to them.

I loved how Peter Mahew was in credits Wookiee consultant.

[shaventalz]

CapeCodRPGer wrote:

I really loved it. ** spoiler omitted **

I loved how Peter Mahew was in credits Wookiee consultant.

Spoiler:

The star systems taken out by the hyperspace shotgun were the Republic's systems, not the Resistance. Which is another point that really bugged me about that movie - what is the Resistance resisting? If it was the Empire New Order, why wasn't the New Republic doing its job of guarding its citizens?

Rhawrr rar roooOoa?

[archmagi1]

To cape cods last point, is the republic capital still Courescant?

Also i would think it's probably ok not to tag TFA spoilers in a last Jedi thread.

[CapeCodRPGer]

I assume that it’s still the republic capital. But if it’s a resistance they may have had the main places on other systems.

[shaventalz]

archmagi1 wrote:

To cape cods last point, is the republic capital still Courescant?

Also i would think it's probably ok not to tag TFA spoilers in a last Jedi thread.

Wookiepedia says the capital was actually rotated between member worlds. At the time of a certain "incident", Hosnian Prime was the seat of power.

[BigNorseWolf]

Spoiler chain:

If the rebellion is down to a dozen ships, they are dead. It is over. There is no rebellion.

The rebellion only works if the group escapes to play the signal, the signal goes out, all the disparate groups come together, and are then lead in a fight against the first order. If any part of that plan fails then the rebellion fails.

There is no, nada, zero, zilch reason or excuse to throw away an admiral you are going to need for that last part when any random schlub can do the first one. if the rebellion is down to one sanitation engineer they can't replace they're dead.

[Rysky]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

A rebuttal: This movie.

[Bill Dunn]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

spoiler chain:

You're seen Star Wars movies before, right? Officers are as expendable as their troops. Besides, Star Wars movies are more about the development of the principal characters than military wisdom and the story on the fleeing fleet remnant was about Poe Dameron learning to be a commander rather not just an impulsively dangerous hotshot.

other discussion:

So how did things degenerate after the end of Return of the Jedi and then further after the Force Awakens? After a massive civil war, it's not that hard to imagine the victors taking their eyes off the ball out of sheer exhaustion. It's pretty historical when you consider who won the Reformation after the US Civil War (hint: it wasn't the Union). And with the destruction of the Star Killer base AND the Republic government, it's pretty much anarchy. Any support Leia was probably getting covertly from the Republic would have dried up. Moreover, that Star Killer wiped out more planets than the Death Stars ever did. That's pretty intimidating even if it got blown up. It means the First Order surpassed its parent in genocidal or nihilistic destructiveness and that's pretty freaking scary.

[Rogar Valertis]

As I said I don't think this is the best SW film, far from it, although it's not bad either.

That said, I'd like to adress some of the criticism:

Stuff:

-The rebels on the run, admiral Holdo and the secret base: the film makes it pretty clear what Holdo plan was. Stall until the rebel convoy gets near the planet with the SECRET base from the war against the Empire era, then send everyone on it using escape pods. From there wait for the First Order ships to pass by, fully convinced they had erased the rebellion and then get rescued. It ALMOST worked, since the First Order ships were not checking for smaller shipments. The only reason the plan failed is Benicio del Toro CN rogue told the LE goons about it (and quite frankly I'm not even sure how he knew about this secret plan since Poe Dameron did not). That's why the First Order locates the escape pods and starts shhoting them out of the space. And that also leads Admiral Holdo to sacrifice herself to allow some of the Resistance to reach the secret base (but not so secret anymore thanks to that pesky CN rogue).

-By the end of the film the Rebellion is over: yes, in a sense that's true. But remember the FINAL scene with those young boys playing as Luke. The OLD Rebellion is over and the few survivors are in no shape to take on the First Order, but the seeds of the NEW rebellion (and new Jedi Order) have been planted. It will take time, and I fully expect episode IX to fast forward a few years, but hope is still there. As a side note, if you read the novels you knew the First Order had won the moment it blasted the Republic's capital planet into rubble. The First Order spent a lot of time buying and building weapons while the Repubblic didn't consider them a threat. What Leia was leading was a small bunch of political pariahs who recognized the danger posed by the First Order and were ostracized for that. That's why these rebels are hopelessly outclassed when fighting openly against the First Order, despite the latter having a lot of less than competent leaders (including the Vader wannabe Kylo Renn).

-Luke had an horrible send off: patently false. Luke saved the day and more importantly he ignited the spark that would lead to the new Rebellion. He challenging all those First Order soldiers and then toying with Kylo Renn is the stuff that increased his legend and gave people hope.

[Bill Dunn]

Rogar Valertis wrote:

As I said I don't think this is the best SW film, far from it, although it's not bad either.

That said, I'd like to adress some of the criticism:

** spoiler omitted **...

Good stuff. I'd also add:

Spoiler:

The Resistance may be in bad shape, but so is the First Order. Snoak is dead. His flagship and several other ships destroyed. Kylo Ren and General Hux are in charge... sort of... but asserting full authority will take some work considering they're rivals. Reluctant Resistance allies can be expected to respond to that.

[Bill Dunn]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

This is the best Star War.

Not sure if it's the best of all time, but I thoroughly enjoyed it, in part, because there was so much to surprise me in how the story plays out.

[BigNorseWolf]

Rysky wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

A rebuttal: This movie.

Or proof, this movie.

[John Napier 698]

JoelF847 wrote:

I thought this was a big bunch of meh. Pretty much everything not having to do with Luke, Rey, and Kylo Ren was somewhere between boring and useless. I will give it credit that there was little that was outright BAD with the movie, like the prequels had to various extents, but there wasn't too much of the movie that was good either.

As for specific things:
** spoiler omitted **...

Just a few points to clear things up.

1) Secret bases have to remain secret. Once a base's location is known, you're open to all sorts of retribution. This is the reason that the Rebellion left Yavin 4 for Hoth. And the reason that they had to leave Hoth when that base became known. See Episode V for the consequences of being found.

2) Ships can be tracked by analyzing Hyperspace Entry Vectors. Also, that tech was being researched during the period of Rogue One. In the Citadel Tower on Scarif, when Jyn was saying project names out loud, there was the "Hyperspace Tracking" project.

10) The Kessel Run is a smuggler's route of 18 parsecs. The Falcon made it 12 because it's more durable.

[Rysky]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Rysky wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

A rebuttal: This movie.

Or proof, this movie.

We apparently watched two different movies.

[Cellion]

@JoelF847:

Following up from John above...

Spoilers for the movie:

1) As others have mentioned, the First Order blew up the core Republic worlds near the end of Ep7, presumably eliminating a bunch of potential reinforcements the 'Resistance' could have gotten.
2) John's answer has this one down.
3) Not important for the story being told. He's a Sith (despite contradictions to existing canon) that has evil plans. His real role is as a stepping stone for Kylo to develop his character.
4) The whole point is that her parents are nobody. There are two themes hammered home in this movie (sometimes well, sometimes poorly). One is that failure helps you become stronger, the other is that anyone who is willing to fight can become a hero and that bloodlines are totally bogus (this also kind of contradicts what Eps 1-3 are all about, but whatever).
5) Porgs will sell toys. They have 0 role in this movie, other than as jokes.
6) Presumably since the base is abandoned but open to the outside via that hole in the back, they used it as a roomy den.
7) Yeah, and then Rey left. This isn't a failing of the movie.
8) One of the things I don't like about the movie was that Luke was against the Jedi purely because he himself failed to train someone successfully. To me that doesn't follow logically. Once yoda gives him a pep talk he suddenly supports Rey becoming one. Agreed on this one being unclear and deserving of more detail.
9) For some portion of this movie, Luke IS the last jedi. Presumably Rey will kickstart things again in the future, but right now she's far too firey and brash to be called a jedi.
10) Yes. This has always been a problem for Star Wars. I guess you could argue that Star Wars is all about not sweating the small stuff (like travel time).
11) Its a memorable character trait, that's all the reason it needs to exist.

[Freehold DM]

Rysky wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Rysky wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

A rebuttal: This movie.

Or proof, this movie.

We apparently watched two different movies.

maybe his had the y wings in it.

[BigNorseWolf]

John Napier 698 wrote:

Spoiler:

Quote:

1) Secret bases have to remain secret. Once a base's location is known, you're open to all sorts of retribution. This is the reason that the Rebellion left Yavin 4 for Hoth. And the reason that they had to leave Hoth when that base became known. See Episode V for the consequences of being found.

There's no version of this plan where the secret base remains secret from the people you are rescuing, so keeping the secret base secret from the people you area rescuing is a terrible reason for anything.

2) Ships can be tracked by analyzing Hyperspace Entry Vectors. Also, that tech was being researched during the period of Rogue One. In the Citadel Tower on Scarif, when Jyn was saying project names out loud, there was the "Hyperspace Tracking" project.

also, time advances, there was only one of the things, Emperors personal death machine gets the new toys...

[Thomas Seitz]

All I know is Han didn't shoot first and there were plenty of bad feelings about all of it.

[BigNorseWolf]

Freehold DM wrote:

maybe his had the y wings in it.

Those weren't Y wings?

They finally needed a bomber and didn't use them?

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

I see there is a lot of division here. Let me clear something up.

This is the best Star War.

Now, I know you want me to elaborate, but honestly if you pay attention to the movie it literally answers all your gripes and concerns. Some of the answers you get, maybe they make you feel angry. Examine carefully why they make you feel that way. Is it because the movie was bad? Or because you have become so comfortable with your preconceived notions about what is a Star War, that surprises upset you rather than excite you.

As to quibbles about how hyperspace, space magic and starships work, the movie explains what the rules are.

Finally, this movie asks Star Wars nerds to grow up more in two hours than they have in 40 years. It’s painful, but did you really want to go to a cinema just to see all of your fan-theories to be proven right?

This. Is. The. Best. Star. War.

I promise you, given time the salt will blow over, and you’ll see that this is the shining jewel that truly redeemed Star Wars, unapologetically.

[shaventalz]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I see there is a lot of division here. Let me clear something up.

This is the best Star War.

Now, I know you want me to elaborate, but honestly if you pay attention to the movie it literally answers all your gripes and concerns. Some of the answers you get, maybe they make you feel angry. Examine carefully why they make you feel that way. Is it because the movie was bad? Or because you have become so comfortable with your preconceived notions about what is a Star War, that surprises upset you rather than excite you.

As to quibbles about how hyperspace, space magic and starships work, the movie explains what the rules are.

Finally, this movie asks Star Wars nerds to grow up more in two hours than they have in 40 years. It’s painful, but did you really want to go to a cinema just to see all of your fan-theories to be proven right?

This. Is. The. Best. Star. War.

I promise you, given time the salt will blow over, and you’ll see that this is the shining jewel that truly redeemed Star Wars, unapologetically.

Spoiler:

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I see there is a lot of division here. Let me clear something up.

No division, only certain points of view on the same unifying event. Hey, if Obi-Wan can get away with it...

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

This is the best Star War.

...
This. Is. The. Best. Star. War.

Not the worst, but certainly not the best.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Now, I know you want me to elaborate, but honestly if you pay attention to the movie it literally answers all your gripes and concerns. Some of the answers you get, maybe they make you feel angry. Examine carefully why they make you feel that way. Is it because the movie was bad? Or because you have become so comfortable with your preconceived notions about what is a Star War, that surprises upset you rather than excite you.

Well, I'm pretty sure I feel disappointed because it still doesn't answer very important questions, or really give me a reason to care about certain characters. I'm fairly certain that at least some of my disappointment is in there being dedicated axe-ecutioner stormtroopers just lounging around, among other things.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

As to quibbles about how hyperspace, space magic and starships work, the movie explains what the rules are.

Except if hyperspace worked like that, there would never have been capital ships in the first place. A handful of starfighter-sized hyperspace torpedoes would have already been used to take out the fleet.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Finally, this movie asks Star Wars nerds to grow up more in two hours than they have in 40 years. It’s painful, but did you really want to go to a cinema just to see all of your fan-theories to be proven right?

No, I came to see a movie that didn't call itself into question.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I promise you, given time the salt will blow over, and you’ll see that this is the shining jewel that truly redeemed Star Wars, unapologetically.

Since the prequels canonically happened before the original trilogy, technically it redeemed itself already.

Not even sorry for the quote, it had to be done.
EDIT: And in case it was unclear, this was done roughly half in jest.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

What made you think your questions were important?

Spoiler:

This film literally tells you things aren’t going to go the way you think they will.

As for the hyperspace thing, it took a capital-class ship to put a dent in the First Order ships. Han Solo literally tells you the dangers of hyperjumps in the first movie:

Han Solo wrote:

Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?

Also the executioner troopers probably also have other tasks too, don’t be deliberately obtuse.

Looks like every word you said is wrong.

This. Is. The. Best. Star. War.

Don’t @ Me.

[shaventalz]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

What made you think your questions were important?

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Well, generally, the fact that it's MY question makes it important TO ME.

And that wasn't a dent. That was putting a laser shotgun through basically the whole fleet. Including slicing the ship that's apparently as wide as three SSDs laid prow-to-stern into distinct sections. All from something, what, maybe twice as large as the dinky little corvette they had in Episode IV? Seriously, the thing took out ranks of ISDs after tearing through the entirety of the big one. If it worked like that, they wouldn't have even had to do a bombing run on the original Death Star - just throw a couple leaky ships on autopilot at it.

With regards to the quote in question, Han didn't say it'd end the star real quick... just the trip. There's any number of ways that could happen, any of which are now (as you say) fan-theories.

[Freehold DM]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Freehold DM wrote:

maybe his had the y wings in it.

Those weren't Y wings?

They finally needed a bomber and didn't use them?

no.

They were not.

sniffs contemputously at B wing and its derivatives

[Freehold DM]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I see there is a lot of division here. Let me clear something up.

This is the best Star War.

Now, I know you want me to elaborate, but honestly if you pay attention to the movie it literally answers all your gripes and concerns. Some of the answers you get, maybe they make you feel angry. Examine carefully why they make you feel that way. Is it because the movie was bad? Or because you have become so comfortable with your preconceived notions about what is a Star War, that surprises upset you rather than excite you.

As to quibbles about how hyperspace, space magic and starships work, the movie explains what the rules are.

Finally, this movie asks Star Wars nerds to grow up more in two hours than they have in 40 years. It’s painful, but did you really want to go to a cinema just to see all of your fan-theories to be proven right?

This. Is. The. Best. Star. War.

I promise you, given time the salt will blow over, and you’ll see that this is the shining jewel that truly redeemed Star Wars, unapologetically.

I may not agree, but I cannot help but to respect your freehold-like zeal.

[GM Rednal]

Space Battles:

I think the explanation given was that most space battles take place pretty close to planets and other inhabited places (Yavin IV, Hoth, Forest Moon of Endor, Scarif, etc.), and doing a hyperspace attack around a place like that is a really bad idea. Like, "small vehicles could wreck a continent if slightly inaccurate" bad, to say nothing of a friggin' Capital Ship. Bombing the Death Star that way might've blown up the rebels' base, and all of them, along with it.

In short, it's not that they can't, it's just that most consider it a very bad idea. Empty space, far from inhabited areas, makes it more practical.)

[shaventalz]

GM Rednal wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I wish I could go with that reasoning. But... you don't aim towards the planet. Space is big, and has three dimensions.* Fly to the side and ram them that way. Or heck, fly straight up. That way, you won't be any worse off than you would be anyway when the fragments of everything that got destroyed start raining down.

Hoth? Yavin? Uninhabited. Location of the Death Star's first sighting? Very recently uninhabited. Scarif? Shielded, and only has an enemy base. Either the shield protects it, or the shield can't protect it. Either way, you win.

That's not even taking into account what could be done by someone other than "the good guys." Hmm... we could either turn a planet into a hyperspace superlaser that eats its own star... or we could use a small fraction of those resources and a couple dozen smaller ships to devastate the planets in question via hyperdrive.

*This first point was also an issue I had with the attack on not-Hoth. You've got fighters. Fly to the side of the trench and shoot along it. Otherwise, you're taking out one or two rebels per pass at best.

[BigNorseWolf]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Now, I know you want me to elaborate, but honestly if you pay attention to the movie it literally answers all your gripes and concerns. Some of the answers you get, maybe they make you feel angry. Examine carefully why they make you feel that way. Is it because the movie was bad?

I was not angry about the movie. I am critical about one of the plot lines. As it was a lynch pin, its taking down my view of the movie.

What I am angry about is putting that criticism on me, with no more evidence than my alleged mental state. You have no cause to make up stuff about other people, in order to say things about people instead of supporting your point.

NO, the movie does not answer all of my gripes. It is not because i didn't pay attention, it's because the writers wanted certain scenes to happen and couldn't come up with a good way to get there. Its not that i don't know what star wars is, it's that space opera lowers the bar for sensible thought but doesn't drop it.

[BigNorseWolf]

GM Rednal wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

↑↑↓↓←→←→BA. VICTORY

[Browman]

I saw it earlier today and really didn't like it.

Spoiler:

Finn's storyline was basically pointless. Rose was annoying and basically made every scene she was in worse.

The entire cruiser chase plotline was terrible, Hux caught the rebellion with their pants down and somehow his grand plan was to make them think they escaped so he could keep chasing them and lose a huge ship in the process. How he survived losing a planet sized death star makes minimal sense, Snoke shouldn't have shown mercy for stupidity a second time. All Hux had to do was launch fighters as soon as he jumped in and have his star destroyers go after the cruiser while the dreadnought blew up the base.

The stupidity of that plotline only got worse. Leia suddenly has active force powers? Force users can survive deep space? The new admiral thinks the best plan is to let everyone think her plan is to keep running and hope the First Order gets bored? The First order's only plan is to chase them for 3 days while they wait for them to run out of fuel? And they need their entire fleet to do it? It is one cruiser, you need like 3-5 star destroyers to guarantee it will die, not a super ship and your whole fleet.

Rey's parents being no one was dumb, why did we waste all that time in the force awakens if it is irrelevant.

Luke dying made no sense to me, the reveal that he was projecting was one of the best parts of the movie and to me was entirely undone by him dying afterwards.

Where are the Knights of Ren? That was one of the best concepts the force awakens had and they appear to be completely forgotten at this point. Weren't they at the destruction of Luke's jedi temple?

The movie had some good moments but was a terrible star wars movie that blatantly ignored the established setting. I have no intention of watching any other star wars movies by this director.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Spoiler:

Poe is just a mouthy captain who got the bombers killed. Vice Admiral Holdo doesn’t owe him any explanations. Poe also revealed the secret plan to the First Order almost as soon as he learned it by blabbing it over an open comm to the people he knew were on the enemy ship. Poe’s arc was to learn patience and take some g*#$%#n responsibility. He learns that lesson because he messes up.

And the difference between the First Order and the Rebellion is that the leadership of the Rebellion values the lives of the people they are in charge of. Holdo trusts that help will come when the surviving Resistance members are safe in a bunker that can take a barrage. She didn’t know they had a battering ram, or that the galaxy wouldn’t respond.

She took a desperate action, one that only worked because Hux didn’t blows her out of the sky when she started turning the ship around. Anyway, everything was in the movie.

This. Was. The. Best. Star. War.

[Browman]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

This. Was. The. Best. Star. War.

Just repeatedly saying something doesn't make it so.

Spoiler:

She doesn't specifically owe Poe an explanation, she owes everyone an explanation. She apparently has no plan other than keep running which will clearly end with everyone dead. She is taking over as leader, one of the first things you need to do in that situation is to reassure everyone that things will be ok. Saying nothing in a clearly bad situation reassures no one. By not saying anything it seems like she has no plan and just going to get everyone killed. Ironically her plan failed entirely because she didn't tell people. If she had told people they never would have encountered the guy who sold them out.

[shaventalz]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Poe is just a mouthy captain who got the bombers killed.

...while following a plan that they came up with and apparently agreed to before starting the movie. Not saying it was a good plan, but they gave the OK anyway.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

And the difference between the First Order and the Rebellion is that the leadership of the Rebellion values the lives of the people they are in charge of. Holdo trusts that help will come when the surviving Resistance members are safe in a bunker that can take a barrage. She didn’t know they had a battering ram, or that the galaxy wouldn’t respond.

Sending help in piecemeal from across the galaxy without a real plan against what was up there? Would have killed more Resistance members than just letting the planet die. There were what, a dozen down there? Maybe two? Valuing lives doesn't mean sacrificing the many for the few simply because their names are in the credits. And why wouldn't they expect super-heavy ground-based weaponry would be stored on the biggest warship their enemies had? If something like that exists, that's exactly the kind of ship that should be carrying one. Or, you know, a few large rocks to drop from orbit. Unlike Hoth, the Resistance didn't have enough prep time to get a shield set up that could have protected against orbital bombardment. They were basically there long enough to turn on the lights and unpack the old computers.

[GM Rednal]

Last Jedi:

Actually, I think they DID mention something about getting a shield up that would protect them from the Star Destroyers - apparently not from land assault, though.

[Jurassic Pratt]

Eh, I disagree that it's the best Star Wars. I thought it was a good Star Wars movie, sure, but not the best.

Spoiler:

For one I found Rose to be annoying and genuinely didn't enjoy her character or the scenes she was in. On top of that, there's a big plot hole in why the First Order didn't just jump a star ship in front of the rebels.

But I can mostly overlook that for the sake of what was otherwise a good movie. The major fight scene was the best of any Star Wars movie imo