Pathfinder Battles Preview: Pathfinder Originals

[Mazra]

Another great Friday preview.

It is so cool to be able to get miniatures of things never before made in pre-painted plastic.

It is appreciated. BTW - Gross is a really good thing.

[douglasiv]

I am glad to finally get a reefclaw, but it will probably too late for my S&S game kicking off soon.

[bcgambrell]

Roll for sanity loss.

[Cleanthes]

Those are all great! Especially happy about the Reefclaw. Cool as the big CR minis usually are, I'll use them maybe once, but the low CR's tend to get used over and over again.

[Feros]

A reefclaw! Out before my Skull & Shackles/Razor Coast mashup campaign begins in the new year! It's all falling into place...

Tents fingers.
Excellent!

[Vhalantru]

Cool to see a reefclaw mini although that's a pretty bad picture to give an idea of how the figure looks.

[Young Boromir]

Cool reefclaw and tatlzlwyrm and great that they are common and uncommon. They both look useful repeatedly.

The two rares are very interesting. I like them both conceptually, but don't feel a desire to include either in gameplay. Maybe the Lovecraft one because sea based stuff is fun to develop.

Including Native American mythology is cool, but the beatific one for some reason just doesn't jive with the make believe worlds in my head.

[Erik Mona]

Wrong "Indian".

[danielc]

Nice preview Erik. I am working hard to earn an extra bonus from work. My goal is to be able to buy a case of this set and a case of the next.

Keep the wonderful Plasticrack flowing. :-)

[Shem]

Erik, I am loving this set. Including many Paizo creations and characters unique to Pathfinder.

I would like to see a few sets like this to catch up on some of the great, unique creatures Pathfinder is bringing us.

And a Crimson Throne set would be awesome too... :)

[Scribbling Rambler]

Absolutely fantastic!
There was a Top 10 Requests thread around hear somewhere, and 2 of these minis were on my list.
And a white re-paint of that Tatzylwyrm may be a popular promo/re-release some day ;)

[Rakshaka]

Moon Beast!! No!!! (Rolls for sanity and quickly fails)

[Young Boromir]

Thanks for the correction on the correct Indian connection. That was a silly assumption on my my part.

[Berk the Black]

Legends of Golarion is shaping up to be quite a nice set. And we haven't even seen any kobolds from it yet!

[Shem]

Oh kobolds

[Enlight_Bystand]

Berk the Black wrote:

Legends of Golarion is shaping up to be quite a nice set. And we haven't even seen any kobolds from it yet!

Technically it's just a case of Erik hasn't shown us kobolds yet; there are some decent images of them from Gencon here

[Fitzwalrus]

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Paizo had a Reefclaw figure in the pipeline but left it out of the Skull and Shackles set (where it is a fairly significant early encounter) but put it into Legends instead? So now to get the ones I need I have to crapshoot by buying boxes of Legends figures that I don't want or need in the hopes of scoring a Reefclaw, or else wait and try aftermarket?
Boy, now I'm really glad all those Iconics (which had absolutely nothing to do with the S&S AP arc) found space in the release schedule....

Lame. Utterly, completely lame.

[Isil-zha]

Fitzwalrus: Singles of the last few sets have become available on paizo.com more or less immediately. If the reefclaw is the only one that you're interested in go get the singles.

[Scribbling Rambler]

Also, as I said above, it is actually a significant early encounter in at least 3 different AP's. So if it was in S&S, that would mean it's probably not in the other 2 future sets. Not everything can fit in every set.

[Cleanthes]

The aftermarket hasn't been so much an aftermarket. It's been an available-on-day-of-release market. Ebay sellers have singles available instantly, maybe even a little early, and often they can be picked up pretty reasonably -- certainly cheaper than the prices on Paizo's website.

[douglasiv]

Fitzwalrus wrote:

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Paizo had a Reefclaw figure in the pipeline but left it out ....

Lame. Utterly, completely lame.

I am glad they left it out similar to the decision to leave the White Dragon out of the RotRL set. The reefclaw could easily be added to other sets like this, but some of the NPCs would not make it into another set. This is especially so because it is only a few months between these two releases.

As far as the iconics, I will be glad when they finish releasing them so we can get more AP specific things in future sets but two per set has become expected at this point.

[In_digo]

...am I the only one who actually likes that they release iconics in every set?

[Cpt_kirstov]

As a PFS organizer, I love being able to hand an iconic to someone playing that iconic as a pregen. if anything, I wish they were common so I could tell the player they could keep the mini after

[Kieviel]

In_digo wrote:

...am I the only one who actually likes that they release iconics in every set?

I do really enjoy the iconics just wish they were in an encounter pack or something. getting 1 is awesome, opening #3 or 4 when all you are missing one more rare that isn't an iconic can make for a sad panda.

[Shem]

I am enjoying the iconics.

[Berk the Black]

If the iconics weren't part of the sets, I probably wouldn't be getting them. And yet, whenever I open a booster with them in it, I haven't felt the least bit cheated. And I find I'm using them in my games, both as players and NPCs. So, I'm good the way things are.

[Isil-zha]

I like the iconics as well, however I am also glad that they went from uncommon to rare.

[danielc]

In_digo wrote:

...am I the only one who actually likes that they release iconics in every set?

No, you are not alone. I think while those who are fetching about it have some good points, I disagree with their desire. I want the iconics just like I want the other named NPCs.

[Cleanthes]

I love the iconics, and as someone who sells minis on the aftermarket, I'm always thrilled to get them. They almost always sell fast, which suggests there's a lot of people out there who are eager to have them (with the exception of poor Ezren, who sits on my shelf. Maybe it's a kind of gamer ageism :-( .) For every mini collector (often DM types) who just wants the minis to run their adventures, there's a dozen players who would love to use an iconic as a pre-gen or who just like the look of the mini for their own character. And those minis get a lot of love from the sculptors and painters, so they're usually a cut above.

[Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper]

Paizo / Erik indeed have a hard job in making a product like these minis. There are so many different customer preferences, its difficult for Paizo to find a middle ground that caters to all customers. Paizo has to constantly weigh decisions such as:

- monster to npc/pc balance per set
- female to male balance of npc/pc's
- racial representation of npc/pc balance
- inclusion of iconics
- inclusion of monsters already in existence from the DDM line
- inclusion of themed monsters (AP specific monsters)
- inclusion of Pathfinder specific monsters
- inclusion of monsters on Paizo staff's "this would be cool to have" list
- scale of the minis

All these topics above have been debated several times in the forums, as there are many differing opinions. I think Paizo / Erik do an excellent good job in trying to present a wide variety of miniatures in each set which will appease the greatest amount of customers. Paizo will never be able to please everyone with their set offerings, but it is my opinion that only the truly inflexible/rigid of mind would critique Paizo harshly and suggest that their current PFB set offerings are poor.

Random Mini Complaint Rant:

I also know there are frequent criticisms about the random delivery method, however the reasoning for this has been rehashed so many times that I'm not sure if these critics will ever understand the business end of pre-painted miniature production, no matter how much factual and financial information they are provided with. It's really a moot point though when there is a secondary market.

Through my own personal experience, if you just want specific minis then use the secondary market exclusively! If you don't want to spend a lot of money on buying minis then don't even buy 1 random mini pack -- if you like the thrill of gambling, go to a casino. Every time I have bought a few random packs and then bought additional minis through the secondary market, I have always been unhappy with the total cost -- and after reflecting I realized that I would have saved money, by just buying all my desired minis through the secondary market.

[Alex Smith 908]

I don't really like the iconics as minis simply because I tend to be grabbing minis as a GM for use as monsters and combat relevant NPCs. Additionally my PCs don't use them because given they only have one mini to keep track of they usually get a more customized non-prepainted one (one of them actually modelled all the magic items he started play with on his character, which was pretty damn neeto).

That being said if they are selling well in the secondary market that seems to indicate that most people are not like me, and as such Paizo should probably focus on helping the majority.

[Erik Mona]

Fitzwalrus wrote:

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Paizo had a Reefclaw figure in the pipeline but left it out of the Skull and Shackles set (where it is a fairly significant early encounter) but put it into Legends instead? So now to get the ones I need I have to crapshoot by buying boxes of Legends figures that I don't want or need in the hopes of scoring a Reefclaw, or else wait and try aftermarket?
Boy, now I'm really glad all those Iconics (which had absolutely nothing to do with the S&S AP arc) found space in the release schedule....

Lame. Utterly, completely lame.

Would it earn one more lame in that last sentence if I told you that Legends of Golarion was originally supposed to come out _before_ Skull & Shackles?

Because, honestly, I feel like your post was missing just one more smidgen of disappointment, and that could really push it over the edge into something truly special.

[Cleanthes]

What I find amusing about all this is that a couple years from now, when almost *everyone* who wants to buy these minis will be using the aftermarket, no one's going to care what order the minis were released in sets. They just become part of the big worldwide stock of minis sloshing around as people buy and sell. Having watched what happened to the WotC iconics, I can say this: For now, while Paizo's RPG stock is high and people are playing PFS with iconic characters, the iconics are going to stay valuable. Down the road, if Paizo's stock relative to other RPGs drops and the excitement around Pathfinder dims, your basic kobold minis are going to hold their value, and the iconics are going to drop. That's definitely what happened with the WotC iconics. There's just no love for Krusk, Mialee, and Ember anymore. (Though Drizzt, Elminster, Artemis Entreri, Storm Silverhand, Mordenkainen...they're a different story, and a different level of iconic.)

[Everthefool]

Erik Mona wrote:

Fitzwalrus wrote:

You have GOT to be kidding me.

Paizo had a Reefclaw figure in the pipeline but left it out of the Skull and Shackles set (where it is a fairly significant early encounter) but put it into Legends instead? So now to get the ones I need I have to crapshoot by buying boxes of Legends figures that I don't want or need in the hopes of scoring a Reefclaw, or else wait and try aftermarket?
Boy, now I'm really glad all those Iconics (which had absolutely nothing to do with the S&S AP arc) found space in the release schedule....

Lame. Utterly, completely lame.

Would it earn one more lame in that last sentence if I told you that Legends of Golarion was originally supposed to come out _before_ Skull & Shackles?

Because, honestly, I feel like your post was missing just one more smidgen of disappointment, and that could really push it over the edge into something truly special.

Mona-owned. Here's a simple solution if someone doesn't like what's in a set they don't have to buy it, or can temporarily cancel their subscription.

Fussing over the inclusion of 2 iconics... that many people want in their collection... well, it's like competing in a monkey poo flinging contest... even if you win, you're still a crap covered monkey.

Are eyes a bit wobbly, are there flaws in the mass production, am I a huge fan of the WizKids replacement process? Yes, yes, and no... but kudos Erik and team, you're still keeping me wanting the sets even if some of the models don't quite hit the mark for me.

Keep up the good work, and keep making them better. Even if I did get way too many drowning devils in S&S ( :P :) ).

[Berk the Black]

Iconics make great NPCs or Foes. They're not just for characters any more. I finding a lot of them working into the games I play this way. And it's nice to be able to pull out a case with a lot of variety to try and pick one that best depicts what is being represented. Keep the iconics coming. And the nobles. And the guards. And the commoners... Well, you get the idea.

[Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper]

I think the real message here, is that Paizo is lame when they do not make minis to the poster's preference.

I appreciate seeing other people's opinions on what the line should and shouldn't include though. I kind of like getting a few iconics in each line (well, in general I support anything that gives me more pc/npc minis). I was sort of surprised to learn that not everyone liked getting them in each set.

I certainly have my own preferences of how "I" would produce such a line, but currently I just haven't bothered to invest thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of my time to arrange the appropriate manufacturing and distribution processes.

For now, I find myself having to rely on Paizo to do this for me, and remain thankful that they picked up the void left by WotC. Erik Mona has made so many better choices with this line, over Peter Lee's choices in the DDM line! And most of these minis look so much better than their predecessor's.

I wish others that are quick to complain (thankfully there are very few) would also remember to be thankful that this line exists at all. We all have our own ideas as to what we would like to see in the line, but as I posted earlier there are a lot of factors Paizo has to take into account to appease the majority of its customers.

We know that Paizo is very receptive to respectful input. I have my doubts though that a rashly worded rant is going to have much effect... aside from earning a tactful and clever reply.

[douglasiv]

I am finding use for the iconics as PC/NPC's. In the Skulls and Shackles set, would you rather have the two iconics (Half elves gunslinger and magus) or Master Scourge and Mr Plugg? I could just as easily use Scourge and Plugg minis as PC and NPC in non S&S campaigns as I could the iconics. For me I would rather have those two or maybe one of them and Owlbear (even though I painted a decent mini for him in Reaper Bones).

I like the minis icluding the iconics, but if I had the choice of more AP specific NPC's or the iconics, I would go with more NPC's.

[Scribbling Rambler]

douglasiv wrote:

I am finding use for the iconics as PC/NPC's. In the Skulls and Shackles set, would you rather have the two iconics (Half elves gunslinger and magus) or Master Scourge and Mr Plugg? I could just as easily use Scourge and Plugg minis as PC and NPC in non S&S campaigns as I could the iconics. For me I would rather have those two or maybe one of them and Owlbear (even though I painted a decent mini for him in Reaper Bones).

I like the minis icluding the iconics, but if I had the choice of more AP specific NPC's or the iconics, I would go with more NPC's.

In other sets, I might agree with your statement.

However, the S&S NPC's (ie pirates) are much less likely to be useful to me in other campaigns in comparison with the iconics.

Bottom line is that the iconics are popular and sell well in the secondary market. I'm sure we will continue to see a couple come out in each set... for now.
What interests me is what will happen once Balthazar, Alain, Feiya, Imrijka, Alahandra, Damiel, Hayato, and Reiko are made. That's about 4 more sets, including WotR. Will we start seeing new sculpts, or no iconics in the set? Or will there be 6 new iconics by then?

[Cleanthes]

They've got a new class guide coming out. With what, 20 new classes? If each of those new classes gets its own iconic character, we're going to be seeing new iconics coming out for years. Honestly, though, I kind of hope they don't go that route. Too many iconics if they add another 20. But I doubt they can resist the temptation.

Erik, you want to drop a hint on that? Are there going to be 20 new iconics coming down the pipe?

[Kajehase]

10 new classes, not 20.

[Cleanthes]

D'oh, my mistake! I didn't check my recollection.

Still interested in that question, though.

[Berk the Black]

I don't mind having at least one highly stylized mini representing each class available. The gives players some options. Especially if it happens over five sets. Hey, that'd mean at least seven more Pathfinder Battles sets! I'm definitely on board with that. Just not in one year, please. :)

[Mazra]

The popularity of the Iconics in the aftermarket says it all. Iconics are here to stay. Seoni and Amiri are already hard to get. So a new sculpt of those may be in our future. So if you really don't like your Iconics put it up on Ebay or go to one of the trade sites. You are likely to see some activity.

Personally I really like the Iconics. A player is using Merisiel for her Elf Rogue. Harsk is being used for a PC's cohort. They are often the best painted miniatures in the hobby. I am still amazed over Kyra. I am itching to find a spot to use this exceptional miniature.

[In_digo]

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

I think the real message here, is that Paizo is lame when they do not make minis to the poster's preference.

I usually adopt the attitude that I'm more than likely not going to see more "awkward" or "obscure" miniatures. That way when they do release them, I'm overjoyed.

Like gun-toting miniatures. I personally assumed I'd never see those (or at least, not this soon).
Makes for much happier preview viewing that way :P

[Lou Diamond]

Eric, I have a question on how the figures in this set are distributed.
Are the Balor and HEZROU Uncommon or Rare?

[Enlight_Bystand]

Lou Diamond wrote:

Eric, I have a question on how the figures in this set are distributed.

Are the Balor and HEZROU Uncommon or Rare?

Not Erik, but just speculating:

Both of the 55 figure sets so far have had 9 uncommon larges and 7 rares. We have so far had 5 large rares confirmed - the 4 Genies and the Sandpoint Devil. I would be shocked if Ruzathek wasn't Rare, as he's a specific character.

That leaves just one Large Rare, which from what's been seen I'd guess is the Balor.