Optimizing an Alchemist with highest ability score of 14....


Advice


So my GM had me roll for stats and the rolls came out above average, but with no outstanding stat: 13, 12, 14, 14, 14, 13 arranged as I wish. I'd like to be an alchemist focusing on bombs (and using the party's CLW wand -- we have no real healer), so where might I go with this? I've never played an alchemist before, but they sure look like a SAD class. I could be an Elf or Ratfolk or Tiefling (although I have a Good character in mind), since INT is king and DEX is prince for this class.

Is there any race that gives +4 INT or will I have to settle for 16 with racial bonuses? I just want to contribute my fair share to the party. Is there any other way of boosting my INT at low levels that I'm forgetting? And would a Grenadier be the ideal archetype?

Grand Lodge

INT is going to be your main stat but, in my experience, DEX is not as important as you would think. The ability to target touch AC makes hitting very easy by mid levels, except against certain types of foes. 14 to start for DEX is very viable.

I don't know of any race that gives +4 to INT that is commonly allowed as PC race. However 16 to start is fairly respectable. Obviously you will want to put stat increases to INT and get a headband that boosts it as much as possible as well when you get the opportunity.

I am a pretty big fan of switch hitting with the Alchemist class. If you don't have a real idea for the character that relys on Race, I would be tempted to suggest going Half Orc for Darkvision, Favored Class bonus that increases bomb damage, +2 to INT, and proficiency with the Falchion. Put your third 14 onto STR and carry around a longspear to keep enemies at bay a bit. Once you have exhausted your bombs for the day drink your mutagen keyed to STR and lay the smack down on enemies with the longspear or falchion.

I've heard that many people favor the Grenadier archtype, and I can't really argue against it. I'm more partial to the Beastmorph archtype myself though.

Good luck with your character. I've played 2 Alchemists and I always have a lot of fun with them.

Edit: Tieflings also make excellent ALchemists, with a good alternate FCB. This might be even better for you than Half Orc. (I love the falchion as a weapon though so I'm always tempted to go half orc with any non-martial class that might want to hit things too)


dwayne germaine wrote:

INT is going to be your main stat but, in my experience, DEX is not as important as you would think. The ability to target touch AC makes hitting very easy by mid levels, except against certain types of foes. 14 to start for DEX is very viable.

I don't know of any race that gives +4 to INT that is commonly allowed as PC race. However 16 to start is fairly respectable. Obviously you will want to put stat increases to INT and get a headband that boosts it as much as possible as well when you get the opportunity.

I am a pretty big fan of switch hitting with the Alchemist class. If you don't have a real idea for the character that relys on Race, I would be tempted to suggest going Half Orc for Darkvision, Favored Class bonus that increases bomb damage, +2 to INT, and proficiency with the Falchion. Put your third 14 onto STR and carry around a longspear to keep enemies at bay a bit. Once you have exhausted your bombs for the day drink your mutagen keyed to STR and lay the smack down on enemies with the longspear or falchion.

I've heard that many people favor the Grenadier archtype, and I can't really argue against it. I'm more partial to the Beastmorph archtype myself though.

Good luck with your character. I've played 2 Alchemists and I always have a lot of fun with them.

Thanks for the detailed reply! Is the Falchion likely to do much good, considering that Alchemists seem pretty squishy (d8 and 3/4 BAB, but only light armor). I thought he'd stay behind the line and toss bombs (I'm even thinking of a chirurgeon just to get a little more healing in the party) or shoot things.


There are no 1st party races that boost INT by +4, so you'll have to settle for 16. You'll probably want some spread of INT>DEX>CON or INT>STR>CON, depending on how much investment you want to put into DEX fighting. It's your choice if you want to drop WIS, since you have a weak Will save, but your lowest stat should be CHA, regardless. Alchemist is mildly MAD - it's a 2nd-liner combatant with INT dependence. You're not going to be a Wizard, where you practically only need INT. You're much closer to a Cleric in terms of what you do - you have self-buffs (Spells for Cleric, Alchemy + Mutagen for Alchemist), some nifty splash ability (Channel for Cleric, Bomb for Alchemist), and 3/4 BAB with two good saves. Granted, Alchemist is a bit more physical and less casty than Cleric, but the point stands.

Since you're going bomber-sort, you should consider Goblin, Half-Elf, and Android as options, in addition to what you have just listed. Goblin and Half-Elf both get unique bomb-modifying archetypes, and Android has great resistances and great stat modifiers. Remember that you don't have to be evil to be a tiefling. Peri-blooded Aasimar and Half-Orc are also out there, if you just want positive stat modifiers and don't care too much for other abilities.

Also, as an alternative option to Alchemist, you could check out Kineticist. Has an excellent ability to lay out AOEs or touch attacks frequently, although it lacks much of the self-buffing Alchemist can do.

Grand Lodge

I usually try to stick to using the longspear until I've exhausted my bombs and drank my mutagen. Then it sort of becomes a toss up. the bigger critical threat range on the falchion is very good, but somewhat comes down to how well you roll. Staying farther away from enemies is a really good thing to do though with an Alchemist unless you dip a level into Barbarian or something.

It sounds like Tiefling is really the race you want to go with. +2 INT and DEX, with -2 to CHA is kinda perfect for you. I would have mentioned it first, but I'm more used to Core races only games so that's where my mind was at. Plus if you can use the Prehensile tail alternate race trait, that's amazing


Also remember that your alchemist will need to use UMD for the CLW wand since their extracts do not qualify for spell trigger items


Also remember that your alchemist will need to use UMD for the CLW wand since their extracts do not qualify for spell trigger items

Grand Lodge

Alchemists CAN use spell trigger items from their extract list.

PRD wrote:
An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so).

Investigators cannot because their alchemy section lacks this text.

Sovereign Court

tomas rosenberg wrote:

Also remember that your alchemist will need to use UMD for the CLW wand since their extracts do not qualify for spell trigger items

The exact opposite actually.

The Alchemy Class Feature says "An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items".

Wands are spell-trigger, scrolls are spell-completion.


with stats like that i would make a throwaway character that you bring in just to die so you can reroll a character with better stats


Lady-J wrote:
with stats like that i would make a throwaway character that you bring in just to die so you can reroll a character with better stats

It's a 23-point buy, although to be fair, it's effectively as good as a 15-point buy, since you'd dump CHA to 7 in a heartbeat and there's practically no difference between a 12 and a 13. Well, except for Power Attack and Combat Expertise, but the stats will probably be laid out so that STR and INT are over 13 anyways.


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A race to consider is Hobgoblin. Here is why. +2 Dex and +2 Con. No minus. Darkvision always a plus. Now here's why they make great Alchemists. They get the racial trait of a bomb every other level. Two they are a goblin subtype which allows them to be a Winged Alchemist. A Feat allows you to ride a Giant vulture or Dire Bat. I'd go Dire Bat myself. You lose Mutagen but you can always pick it up later if you want. With this you can keep out of range and lob bombs all day long. Well worth considering.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
abbamouse wrote:

So my GM had me roll for stats and the rolls came out above average, but with no outstanding stat: 13, 12, 14, 14, 14, 13 arranged as I wish. I'd like to be an alchemist focusing on bombs (and using the party's CLW wand -- we have no real healer), so where might I go with this? I've never played an alchemist before, but they sure look like a SAD class. I could be an Elf or Ratfolk or Tiefling (although I have a Good character in mind), since INT is king and DEX is prince for this class.

... And would a Grenadier be the ideal archetype?

With those scores and focusing on bombs, I'd go with tiefling: 13 Str, 16 Dex (+2 race), 14 Con, 16 Int (+2 race), 12 Wis, 11 Cha (-2 race). Take the Fiendish Sprinter (better movement) and Prehensile Tail (gain much of the benefit of Tentacle or Vestigial Arm). Consider taking Expanded Fiendish Resistance to pick up acid resistance 5 (and possibly Armor of the Pit later on). Use the alternate favored class bonus to increase bomb damage.

A tiefling isn't prevented from having a good alignment (just like an aasimar can be evil). Grenadier is a good choice if you want to focus on bombs.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Derek Dalton wrote:
A race to consider is Hobgoblin. Here is why. +2 Dex and +2 Con. No minus. Darkvision always a plus. Now here's why they make great Alchemists. They get the racial trait of a bomb every other level. Two they are a goblin subtype which allows them to be a Winged Alchemist. A Feat allows you to ride a Giant vulture or Dire Bat. I'd go Dire Bat myself. You lose Mutagen but you can always pick it up later if you want. With this you can keep out of range and lob bombs all day long. Well worth considering.

I like hobgoblin better for a melee-focused alchemist (probably with the beastmorph archetype), not a bomb-focused one. Especially with Pit Boss for the racial proficiency with whip.


A bomb every other level. Gnomes are the only other race that gets that. I'd rather take a Hobgoblin then Gnome. You spend your bonus stats on Int and feats like Extra Bombs with the half level bomb number it adds up fast over say an elf or Human.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
abbamouse wrote:

So my GM had me roll for stats and the rolls came out above average, but with no outstanding stat: 13, 12, 14, 14, 14, 13 arranged as I wish. I'd like to be an alchemist focusing on bombs (and using the party's CLW wand -- we have no real healer), so where might I go with this? I've never played an alchemist before, but they sure look like a SAD class. I could be an Elf or Ratfolk or Tiefling (although I have a Good character in mind), since INT is king and DEX is prince for this class.

... And would a Grenadier be the ideal archetype?

With those scores and focusing on bombs, I'd go with tiefling: 13 Str, 16 Dex (+2 race), 14 Con, 16 Int (+2 race), 12 Wis, 11 Cha (-2 race). Take the Fiendish Sprinter (better movement) and Prehensile Tail (gain much of the benefit of Tentacle or Vestigial Arm). Consider taking Expanded Fiendish Resistance to pick up acid resistance 5 (and possibly Armor of the Pit later on). Use the alternate favored class bonus to increase bomb damage.

A tiefling isn't prevented from having a good alignment (just like an aasimar can be evil). Grenadier is a good choice if you want to focus on bombs.

Perhaps a 13 WIS and 12 CHA, so you can bump it up if your campaign goes to 8.


I've always wanted to try an eleven archer alchemist. Those stats look decent for it.


abbamouse wrote:
Is there any race that gives +4 INT or will I have to settle for 16 with racial bonuses?

16 is well enough, don't push for a race with a +4 modifier.


All right, this feels really dubious (in fact probably is because a player of mine tried it once), but works.

A Peri-blooded Aasimar has +2 Int and +2 Cha

However there are special variant abilities. You can give up your spell-like ability for an additional +2 racial bonus to Int.

This could net you a bonus of +4, and therefore start off with an 18 Int.

Check it out here


The line of text that says "Players with a particular character concept in mind may consult their GM if they want to select a specific variant ability" seems to me to indicate that there are certain things in the variant abilities table that most GMs would sign off on, "extra stats" is probably not one of them.

Like "you have a swim speed" and "you can talk to horses" are totally different balls of wax than "+2 Con".


Id suggest an array of:

12 14 14 14 13 13

I'd pick either Half-Elf, Half-Orc or Human. Put your +2 in Dex either way. Of the three Half-Orc is my favored. You can get a +1 to all saves (good on a balanced stat array, particularly with a poor Will save to shore up), and the flexibility to choose an extra free Extract when you level (Human FCB) or +1/2 damage to your Bombs (Half-Orc FCB) on each level up.

Tiefling gets you the raw stats, but not as much build synergy as any of the above (Human and Half-Elf for Feats, Half-Orc for survivability and damage output).

You will only ever need a max of 16 Int to cast all your spells. It's a secondary priority.

Grenadier is a good option. Take all the standard ranged Feats (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, etc.) and pick a longbow as your Martial weapon. Alternately, if you pick Half-Elf take Ancestral Arms as an alternate racial trait.

Buff yourself to the gills with things like Heroism and shoot arrows like a normal martial. Use extracts for buffing and utility, and nova the s+*+ out of people with Bombs once you can get Fast Bombs, pelting them with bombs that damage and debuff like Force Bombs.


Tiefling has the same FCB as half orc. Stats and that and it's quite good for bomber. Tail is also handy for getting your various alchemy items out quickly.


Huh, for some reason I thought the Tiefling one was Fire damage only.


I've intentionally chosen stats like that; and emphasized my character's versatility.

My advance would be go into that full alchemist route; but also consider this:

1 level of Urban Barbarian, or Urban bloodrager. This allows you to boost a stat on the fly, and can combine with your extracts, and mutagen.

If you need to be come a melee warrior, use both on Str. Dex: both rage and mutate on Dex.

To date, the character (James Carver, a Half-Orc Alchemist/Urban Bloodrager with a celestial bloodline familiar) has been one of my more successful, and memorable PCs among my groups.


tomas rosenberg wrote:

Also remember that your alchemist will need to use UMD for the CLW wand since their extracts do not qualify for spell trigger items

Actually, alchamistes may not be able to make wands, but they are specifically said to be able to use them.

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