How do you make gold with a castle?


Advice


Through some randomness and a deck of many things, I have acquired a small castle.

I am very new to pathfinder/D&D as is the rest of my group.

The group overall is starved for gold, me especially. Everyone has around 2000 gold and I have 0 (the deck destroyed everything non-magical I owned). We are all level 6 to 7.

I have heard that a castle could be used to generate gold for the group somehow. Can anyone explain this in detail for a newbie? Apparently the castle is abandoned, but has usable land.

If the castle can't be used for gold generation, what other ways could the castle benefit the group? If nothing huge, should I just try to sell it?

The GM likes to surprise us, so is quite tight lipped about everything. Since the castle came into existance rather randomly, I doubt it'd be a focal point to the campaign and thus I would like to limit how much attention it would require.

Thanks in advance.


As much as your GM likes to play it close to the chest, this is going to bring up many conversations. Still, castles can be useful in many ways. You're mainly looking at Ultimate Campaign for the rules crunch on how to make your holdings start churning out coin.

Some folks have a dream of opening up their own place, like a cleric who wants his own rectory, or a barbarian who wants a place to turn into a keep. If the lands around the castle are yours as well, then there's good old-fashioned barony income from having peasants, land, and stuff they grow/make on it to sell and tax.

Or you could just rent it out, or sell it off as scrap.


Sell it? Turn it into a tavern or inn?

Even if you have a castle, it doesn't always follow that you are going to be able to generate income from it. Owning a castle wouldn't automatically make you the lord of an area, obliging the locals to pay you taxes. A really cruel GM might even plop down a castle in someone else's territory, creating all kinds of trouble.

The castle might be abandoned and infested with trouble. Clearing it out and restoring it, trying to settle the area could be a fun adventure.


Greetings, fellow traveller.

A castle usually commands the lands surrounding it and offers protection to this land's inhabitants which is why the like to built their huts in the vicinity of it.
As well as being a defencible base of operations for you and your group (with you as the natural baron since you own it) it is also a trade hub.

Thus I'd put it into use along these lines: offer protection to the local inhabitants, offer a safe place to stay, grant land to peasants/farmer, grant titles to yet-to-be minor nobles and in return they pay you (in goods, services or gold).

Ruyan.


First of all - Castle locations are not chosen randomly. They are usually placed on a strategic location so the first thing to do is to find out why the castle was build there, is the location still strategic and why it was abandoned.

Maybe it is a defensive castle - then unless you can sell the protection it offers to the people it used to protect before - there is no decent way to monetize this. Maybe it is overseeing an important road or river crossing. Then you just have to bring law back to those lands with the approval of the local king and then tax travelers for the road security that you provide. Maybe there is a rich mineral deposit nearby.

It is also important why the castle was abandoned if the location is still good. A plague? An invasion? Raids by slavers on the populace? If the problem is still present you have to resolve it first.

Knowledge (History, Geography, Nobility, Local) can be very useful for this part especially when backed up by a Barding Knowledge.

Second of all - a castle is of little use when empty. You need people to live there again? In a feudal setting finding villagers can be a bit tricky since they usually belong to someone else. Usually the feudalism in pathfinder settings is not so strict though. Be creative... free some slaves too far away from their homes to go back or born into slavery and offer them to live in your lands. Offer better conditions (good protection, lower taxes, health service, magical conveniences) that will attract people from the near lands. Use religion... a religious relic can attract pilgrims and some of them can be convinced to stay.

Knowledge Local or Religion, Diplomacy, Sense Motive and Bluff can help you with that.

Then you need to enforce your Law over the lands and offer protection for the people

Finally you need to find something that the people living there can produce better than their neighbors so they can generate profit and to get the money that you need from the profit they generate. Like 90% taxation or something along those lines is to be expected I believe. If they rebel... throw them into the torture chamber and publicly execute some of them until you get them in line. A high intimidate skill will be useless here otherwise you are just wasting your time trying to send the message across.

Enjoy the remainder of your time as a dark overlord and crush your enemies beneath your iron boot.


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Joey Cote wrote:

Sell it? Turn it into a tavern or inn?

Even if you have a castle, it doesn't always follow that you are going to be able to generate income from it. Owning a castle wouldn't automatically make you the lord of an area, obliging the locals to pay you taxes. A really cruel GM might even plop down a castle in someone else's territory, creating all kinds of trouble.

What sort of screwy pseudo-medieval world do you live in? =)

Where I come from, the owner of a castle is per definition the lord of the area, or vice versa. If a castle sits in settled lands, no lord would let someone else own or build a castle in their domain.

Now, if the castle is in abandoned and thus currently unsettled land (which we probably can conclude, since Dryko mentions there being no peasants there), you're only lord of as much as you can fight for. But you'd still enforce your law and your right to taxation etc. for any peasant willing to settle close by.

Joey Cote wrote:
The castle might be abandoned and infested with trouble. Clearing it out and restoring it, trying to settle the area could be a fun adventure.

This is a great tip. Make sure your GM gets it, Dryko.

___

There's a great 3pp book called A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe. It deals with many aspects of how to build pseudo-medieval societies, including feudal manors (which castles, in essential, almost always are). You could recommend it to your GM, Dryko. Maybe even get it yourself, read up and make a suggestion on how the castle should work, how much income it would give each year and so on. But using the guide extensively takes work, it's not a really toolbox where you can cherry-pick things as you wish. If your GM shows no real interest in making the castle a focal point of the campaign, it's probably not worth the bother.

To give you the guides example manor, it generates an income of 9700 gp each year before expenses. The total expenses are at 4700 gp per year, which include staff, feudal obligations, alms to the poor and a lifestyle consumption (clothes, feasts etc.) fit for a small lord.

But, if your GM has given your character a castle without the intention of letting it be a focus in adventures and/or a source of income or other resources, you should ask your GM why. Push him a bit, even if he places things close to hand you should try to convince him to divulge a small bit of his plans.

Ask »so this castle, my character sees no use for it, unless you tell me something else. So I'm thinking of getting rid of it, maybe earn a few gold pieces of it, and then moving on. But I get the feeling that you might consider keeping the castle is more fun for the campaing. So, what should I do?«

Hopefully, you can convince your GM that there's a difference between revealing important, surprising plot-points and communicating and cooperating on a meta-level to keep the campaign fun and interesting for everyone involved. Because there truly is.

EDIT: Linked the wrong product, fixed that now.


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How do you feel about a career in hospitality management?

Shadow Lodge

Blymurkla wrote:
Joey Cote wrote:

Sell it? Turn it into a tavern or inn?

Even if you have a castle, it doesn't always follow that you are going to be able to generate income from it. Owning a castle wouldn't automatically make you the lord of an area, obliging the locals to pay you taxes. A really cruel GM might even plop down a castle in someone else's territory, creating all kinds of trouble.

What sort of screwy pseudo-medieval world do you live in? =)

Where I come from, the owner of a castle is per definition the lord of the area, or vice versa. If a castle sits in settled lands, no lord would let someone else own or build a castle in their domain.

Now, if the castle is in abandoned and thus currently unsettled land (which we probably can conclude, since Dryko mentions there being no peasants there), you're only lord of as much as you can fight for. But you'd still enforce your law and your right to taxation etc. for any peasant willing to settle close by.

Joey Cote wrote:
The castle might be abandoned and infested with trouble. Clearing it out and restoring it, trying to settle the area could be a fun adventure.

This is a great tip. Make sure your GM gets it, Dryko.

___

There's a great 3pp book called A Magical Medieval Society: City Guide. Contrary to the name, it deals with more than cities, including feudal manors (which castles, in essential, almost always are). You could recommend it to your GM, Dryko. Maybe even get it yourself, read up and make a suggestion on how the castle should work, how much income it would give each year and so on. But using the guide extensively takes work, it's not a really toolbox where you can cherry-pick things as you wish. If your GM shows no real interest in making the castle a focal point of the campaign, it's probably not worth the bother.

To give you the guides example manor, it generates an income of 9700 gp each year before expenses. The total...

What this guy said basically. Traditionally a castle is like a cross between a fortress, Wayne Manor, and the federal court. If you own it you collect the taxes and count/keep them here, train and station your troops here, handle court stuff here, and hold all your swanky parties here. For all that to work though you have to have people who you, ya know, lord over or think you are allowed to rule over people. Otherwise you really have just a big haunted house. Now, that in and of itself might be cool but it's now more of a reward for the party than you in particular since you are basically squatting in a big building you don't have the manpower to really run, attract peasants to work for, or maintain control of the land.

Now if your GM has plans to start having dungeons pop out of secret doorways and lead you to ancestral family heirlooms for your character than never mind but without a better idea of what your GM wants to let you do with it I can't really say much more. In the end you should really talk to him about it and ask what's going on. Is he wanting to let this jump off some big political game where you now have to rule this little land and deal with suddenly becoming this "Lord of Winterfell" in a land of other lords and ladies, is this the start of you and your fellow castle squatters discovering a lost vault of shiny macguffins, or some combination of the two?


If you check the Downtime Rules, a Castle has the following rooms:

Quote:


Castle

Create 165 Goods, 31 Influence, 148 Labor, 2 Magic (7,390 gp)

Rooms 2 Armories, 3 Bedrooms, 2 Bunks, 1 Cell, 1 Courtyard, 1 Crypt, 4 Defensive Walls, 1 Drawbridge, 1 Escape Route, 1 Garden, 1 Gatehouse, 1 Gauntlet, 1 Kitchen, 1 Lavatory, 1 Office, 1 Sitting Room, 1 Stall, 2 Storages

An elaborate fortified home, a noble's retreat, or the heart of a settlement's defenses.

The rooms without bonuses will not grant capital, but will grant other benefits, such as a place to keep prisioners safe or grant defensive walls, but here is a list of all rooms with their capital bonuses:

Quote:


2 Armories
3 Bedrooms gp or influence +9
2 Bunks gp or labor +16
1 Cell
1 Courtyard capital +5
1 Crypt gp, influence or magic +5
4 Defensive Walls
1 Drawbridge
1 Escape Route
1 Garden gp or goods +8
1 Gatehouse
1 Gauntlet
1 Kitchen gp or goods +4
1 Lavatory
1 Office
1 Sitting Room influence +4
1 Stall gp, goods or labor +8
2 Storagesgp +4

So each day you have a total bonus for each capital type of:

gp: 2+9+6+5+5+8+4+8+4 = +51
Goods: 5+8+4+8 = +25
Influence: 9+5+5+4 = +23
Labor: 16+5+8 = +29
Magic: 5+5 = +10

So if you take 10 on your Earn Capital check you can obtain 6,1 gp, 3 goods, 3 influence, 3 labor or 2 magic capital each day.


Dryko wrote:

Through some randomness and a deck of many things, I have acquired a small castle.

I am very new to pathfinder/D&D as is the rest of my group.

The group overall is starved for gold, me especially. Everyone has around 2000 gold and I have 0 (the deck destroyed everything non-magical I owned). We are all level 6 to 7.

My suggestion: Get a club, a quarterstaff, and a sling and go find some goblins. Kill them, take their stuff, sell it. Use that money to buy a sword and some armor. Then, go find some orcs. Kill them, take their stuff, sell it. Get some real equipment. Then, go find a nice dungeon full of undead. Kill them, take their stuff, sell it. Maybe mix in a dragon or a group of raiders or some other antagonist whose home you can kick in, kill, and then steal all of their stuff.


Strip the castle of anything valuable, sell it all, then sell castle itself. Seriously though, I feel that your GM probably has a plan, and that your group needs to talk to him.


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Rent it out to young bucks who want to impress their latest lady love with this castle that is totally theirs.


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Anger Nogar wrote:
First of all - Castle locations are not chosen randomly.

That might be true of most castles, but this one is from a deck of many things.


Dave Justus wrote:
Anger Nogar wrote:
First of all - Castle locations are not chosen randomly.
That might be true of most castles, but this one is from a deck of many things.

Oh, right. I missed that (and thought »through some randomness and a deck of many things« meant »I gained the castle due to events started by a deck of many things«).

Deck of Many Things wrote:
Throne: The character becomes a true leader in people's eyes. The castle gained appears in any open area she wishes (but the decision where to place it must be made within 1 hour).

Hm, so the castle has no lord, no domain with peasants and is probably not located very strategically.

Here's what you'll do, Dryko:

If the castle is in already settled land, any nearby lord (or other wielder of power, such as a town, a military order or an abbey) will be very interested. A newly 'built', intact castle is very valuable and you can always do with another one. Even if there's no need for fortifications, it can be re-purposed or used as a quarry. This lord will probably make the (very reasonable) claim that the castle belongs to him, since it stands on his land. And since I gather you're fairly low-level, you wont be able to repel any serious attempt by the lord to seize the castle. Your bargaining position ain't great. But you can still try and make a deal (that +6 Diplomacy will come in handy). Say you'll surrender the castle willingly for a small sum (a couple of thousand gold pieces), or you'll die defending it taking several of the lords soldiers with you. For even a somewhat merciless lord, the gold pieces is a smaller price than the training and equipment of new soldiers, the widow’s pensions and loss of prestige.

If the castle is in unsettled land, find a subtitle ally to sell the castle too. Someone that trusts you, or even owes you. This person will get to be lord of a new domain. But since you're not actually offering that much - a castle isn't worth that much without land and peasants to support it so the new lord is the one with the most work cut out - you'll have to sweeten the deal. Promise to clear the area of monsters before the new lord moves in and once again next year. Again, you'll looking at no more than a few thousand gold pieces for it.


Historically speaking, only the wealthy and powerful owned castles, and so it was in an effort to protect their wealth and power that they opted to have such a structure built. The castle itself isn't what earned them money (or power) - it merely protected it.

If you now have a castle, likely it is in a strategic location (as someone mentioned above) or at the center of a segment of civilization. The lord of that castle (you!) is essentially now the lord of those peoples. Your stronghold provides them with many benefits.

Often a castle is a center of activity for all walks of life; merchants hawked their wares, artisans sold their services to lords, peasants brought in their farmed goods, knights stabled their horses, etc. It is this gathering of activity that generates the cash you are seeking. Your castle could represent a stronghold to protect the nearby peoples from invaders, foreign despots, bandits, or monsters. They in turn would pay taxes, gate fees, levies on traded goods, guild dues, pay for official notaries and copies of documents (official, because you are their lord), and many more ways that you could come up with.

It may take a while to get started, but having a castle is a great source of RP possibilities (any number of colorful NPCs) and hopefully you'll convince your GM to have it earn you some gold!


One thing no one has mentioned on this castle is that it could have already existed but lay empty due to death/betrayal of the noble living there and the crown hasn't granted anyone title to it. The Deck of Many Things grants you title to it and so, once you turn in the title, the crown will see you as a descendent of the previous lord. Plenty of intrigue rp'ing here.

If its in an unpopulated area, then it's likely to be infested with bandits, critters, etc ... and must be cleared out.

I agree with above posters that you need to discuss this with the GM as well as the rest of the party. A castle or house is a very good way to have a base of operations. And eventually, someone will create circle of teleportations to go to different places on the planet for quick travel.

Shoga

Scarab Sages

I'm going to assume some things other haven't, but which are likely based on my experience with this card from the DoMT:

Scenario 1: Card was drawn in a civilized area. Castle was magically placed in an open area within someone else's political domain.

- The castle is indisputably yours (it's magic, remember!) but since it's in an established domain, it probably comes with responsibilities and it will get you irretrievably involved in local politics. If you have the stomach for that and are skilled at diplomacy, then it will eventually be a base of operations that can make you money using the downtime rules from Ultimate Campaign. Downside: If you put it in the wrong place you may have made an enemy of someone.

Scenario 2: Card was drawn in a dungeon or wilderness area, hopefully not too far from Civilization.

- The castle is indisputably yours (it's magic, remember!) but since there is no infrastructure to support it, you will have to find some way to create it. You will need to attract farmers, homesteaders,tradesmen, and merchants to the area, so figure out what the local resources are and how to exploit them. (Fertile Land? Coal/Iron/Gold mine? Unique local plant/animal? Fur trapping?) If your castle sits on top of an old dungeon, you may be able to attract merchants with exotic monster parts and ancient art objects, etc. Eventually, you can establish your own fiefdom and connect it to civilization with a road. Downside: you have to keep local monsters/fauna from eating your homesteaders.


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Rent it out for weddings. There's a castle not too far from where I live, and it's exceedingly popular for weddings.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Dryko wrote:

Through some randomness and a deck of many things, I have acquired a small castle.

If the castle can't be used for gold generation, what other ways could the castle benefit the group? If nothing huge, should I just try to sell it?

OK,what type of character are you?
what type of land? a crop baring farm grounds, shore line for fishing community, rivers for mills and gold sluises and Mountains for mining?

Or the castle it's self, Militia/ Knight or Mercenary training, New Guild ? Inn/Tavern?

get more creative, A Brothel, Gambling hall? Thieves guild?

Sky's the limit!!

Scarab Sages

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Two words: Bouncy castle!


Last time a character got that, we hired a steward to run it, cleared out the local monster lairs, and used it as a base to go after more adventure hooks. It was advanced and homebrew, but the idea of making it self sufficient rings true.

Once farmers move back in you can collect taxes in barter, and sell food to nearby towns.


This is totally DM dependant. I see a few ways this rolls out:

1.) heavy DM plot hooks: you spend a lot of time defending/protecting the castle. Your new $$ comes from monsters knocking down your gates or from politics with NPC barons.

2.) DM by the book: over the course of the next 2 game years, with lots of cash investment from the party, you make a working kingdom that makes it own $$$. This is it's own minigame.

3.) You sell the castle. This could net a lot of a little $$, depending on the GM.

4.) Organic but no money: over time, as you adventure, you gain NPC staff and a great homebase. It's just not a moneymaker.

Congrats on the +6 untyped to diplomacy. That's an amazing, lucky gift. Even if you aren't a diplomacy focused character, a little investment will make you unstoppable. Add a diplomacy class skill trait if it's not a class skill.

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