I agree about alignment restrictions for Paladins but not anything else class related.
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Honestly... All the Summoner needed was the revised spell list and some change to evolution point cost...
Instead, they took a very creative class and made it rather restrictive. Eidolons even have freaking alignment restrictions now!!! WTF do they insist on adding alignment restricitons to anything? They add nothing to the game!
I won't comment on allignment restrictions but the summoner and summoning in general in my esxperience are not easy or fun to play around the table. The summoner stresses an already flawed mechanic to its limit and breaks it. With the old summoner you got a character who could basically cover every role and took 3 times the game space afforded to other characters in the party because of summoning. Also the eidolons were OP and I strongly question the wisdom of giving such a powerful "pet" to a class with the spell list the old summoner had.
Edit: also, limitations are generally a good thing imo, when classes can do everything it's a failure of the game system.
I won't comment on alignment restrictions but the summoner and summoning in general in my experience are not easy or fun to play around the table. The summoner stresses an already flawed mechanic to its limit and breaks it. With the old summoner you got a character who could basically cover every role and took 3 times the game space afforded to other characters in the party because of summoning. Also the eidolons were OP and I strongly question the wisdom of giving such a powerful "pet" to a class with the spell list the old summoner had.
Edit: also, limitations are generally a good thing imo, when classes can do everything it's a failure of the game system.
Giving it the revised spell list, revised point cost/level availability for certain evolutions and maybe a limit to the max number of natural attacks would have been more than enough to make sure no Summoner would be able "to do everything". At least no more than any other 6/9 caster.
Did Summoners need a nerf? Sure... But Paizo overdid it. As usual.
It's like the dev team is incapable of nerfing anything without nuking it into oblivion.
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12) Eh, no, I'm not. Stats were limited to 25 in the old system. Fighters have no way of raising their stats. Spellcasters can raise Str and Con to astronomical levels, and in doing so, since there's no class cap, either, they end up with far more HP or TH dmg bonuses then a fighter. A melee-centered Druid turning into a Huge Dire Bear gets a +16 size bonus to str...+8/+8 Th dmg, and alchemists can abuse mutagens like no tomorrow. When the guy next to you can bulk up to a 40 Str, and you can hit a 26, it looks bad when he hits more and does more dmg then you do.
It may be a 'corner case', as MOST people don't try to overshadow the melees this way...but they can, it's part of the system, and it's another nail in the coffin.
Not only NOT the strongest, but way, way worse.Did you ever bother to read the rules or did you just take down the increased hit dice as a shouting point for whining about fighters?
The druid cannot shape as a dire bear because it has a template. If he could he would not get a +16 size bonus to strength, he'd get a +6 because that's the bonus the relevant polymorph spell says he gets. There are no huge untemplated bears so he can't go above +4.
Come back when you've learned the rules.
Did you even bother to read his post or did you want to just be rude to someone?
He's talking about DnD 3.0, where yes, the druid could turn into basically anything and got the stats of the creature, not just some little str boost.
Come back when you've learned the applicable rules.
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12) Eh, no, I'm not. Stats were limited to 25 in the old system. Fighters have no way of raising their stats. Spellcasters can raise Str and Con to astronomical levels, and in doing so, since there's no class cap, either, they end up with far more HP or TH dmg bonuses then a fighter. A melee-centered Druid turning into a Huge Dire Bear gets a +16 size bonus to str...+8/+8 Th dmg, and alchemists can abuse mutagens like no tomorrow. When the guy next to you can bulk up to a 40 Str, and you can hit a 26, it looks bad when he hits more and does more dmg then you do.
It may be a 'corner case', as MOST people don't try to overshadow the melees this way...but they can, it's part of the system, and it's another nail in the coffin.
Not only NOT the strongest, but way, way worse.Did you ever bother to read the rules or did you just take down the increased hit dice as a shouting point for whining about fighters?
The druid cannot shape as a dire bear because it has a template. If he could he would not get a +16 size bonus to strength, he'd get a +6 because that's the bonus the relevant polymorph spell says he gets. There are no huge untemplated bears so he can't go above +4.
Come back when you've learned the rules.
Did you even bother to read his post or did you want to just be rude to someone?
He's talking about DnD 3.0, where yes, the druid could turn into basically anything and got the stats of the creature, not just some little str boost.
Come back when you've learned the applicable rules.
Yes - Paizo has actually toned down many of the worst balance issues which cropped up in 3.0 (3.5 did some too), but many of them are pretty much baked into the core of the system, and initially Paizo needed to limit the changes they made from 3.5 for compatibility/marketing reasons.
(Paizo also unintentionally added a few of their own - mostly unintended consequences of rules simplifications such as changing spot/listen to perception making invisible people harder to hear.)
The combination of Wildshape, Nature's avatar, and Magic Fang. Ugh. Full size bonus increases, +10/+10 TH/dmg,and +5 on natural weapons. Ugh. With 3 natural attacks as a bear at better hit rates then iteratives.
Yeah, 3e druids could blow away fighters in the amount of raw damage they could unleash. And that was without dipping into Giant-size and growing to 100' tall or something.
I forget what the record for strength was on the 3 opt boards. I think it came down to that spell that gave you +4 Str for each set of arms you fused into your main ones, and shapechanging into something with lots of arms, like a giant octopus or squid or something.
But even in Paizo, Giant form 3 gives you a +8 Size bonus to Str and +6 to Con from size, something no melee can match. If you have a combat centered caster, it can just get ridiculous (albeit not as bad as it used to be). Morphing spells are game breakers.
Form of the Dragon III gives you +10 to Str and +8 to Con from size, and 6 natural attacks. Just, ugh. A melee has no way to duplicate that kind of stat increase...or that number of high BAB attacks.
As I noted for that rule, the ability to increase stats in ways beyond what melee classes can do is ANOTHER nail in the coffin of melees. If all it takes to be like a melee is to TH, DMg and attacks...casters can do that, and SO MUCH ELSE besides.
==Aelryinth
But even in Paizo, Giant form 3 gives you a +8 Size bonus to Str and +6 to Con from size, something no melee can match.
Well, Barbarian could get a +8 to strength. But only at level 20. And only before Paizo "unchained" them.
The combination of Wildshape, Nature's avatar, and Magic Fang. Ugh. Full size bonus increases, +10/+10 TH/dmg,and +5 on natural weapons. Ugh. With 3 natural attacks as a bear at better hit rates then iteratives.
Yeah, 3e druids could blow away fighters in the amount of raw damage they could unleash. And that was without dipping into Giant-size and growing to 100' tall or something.
I forget what the record for strength was on the 3 opt boards. I think it came down to that spell that gave you +4 Str for each set of arms you fused into your main ones, and shapechanging into something with lots of arms, like a giant octopus or squid or something.
But even in Paizo, Giant form 3 gives you a +8 Size bonus to Str and +6 to Con from size, something no melee can match. If you have a combat centered caster, it can just get ridiculous (albeit not as bad as it used to be). Morphing spells are game breakers.
Form of the Dragon III gives you +10 to Str and +8 to Con from size, and 6 natural attacks. Just, ugh. A melee has no way to duplicate that kind of stat increase...or that number of high BAB attacks.
As I noted for that rule, the ability to increase stats in ways beyond what melee classes can do is ANOTHER nail in the coffin of melees. If all it takes to be like a melee is to TH, DMg and attacks...casters can do that, and SO MUCH ELSE besides.
==Aelryinth
You can't just look at stats. Melees usually have some other source of combat bonuses. Rangers have Favored Enemy, Barbarians have rage and rage powers, even fighters have weapon training.
Also, Polymorph effects give big bonuses because they are usually put on squishy mages. Even if you build your wizard to be a front-liner, he still needs 18 int to cast Form of the Dragon III. And his AC will also be lower since +8 natural armor has a hard time competing with +5 full-plate.
6 natural attacks is kinda silly, since I don't think even real dragons count their wings as primary. But Form of the Dragon does not give pounce, so there is that.
Yeah, but these are SIZE BONUSES. They stack with enhancement bonuses to Str and such. Sure, melee classes all get bonuses. But Str bonuses and other bonuses are all 'just bonuses'. It doesn't matter if I can do 100% of the melees job...if I can do 90%, and do a whole lot of other stuff, why need a melee?
Because I can fly and teleport and breathe fire and travel the planes and see the future and summon more melee types...
Oh, just picture that Form of the Dragon surrounded in a Fire Shield, too. Wouldn't that just be fun to anyone wanting to hit it?
That +8 to Nat armor stacks with Bracers/Mage Armor, and all the other standard AC buffing stuff. It's like giving the wizard an extra suit of field plate to wear, on top of all his other stuff.
It's a power shift from fighting classes to casting classes. If I can be a spellcaster all the time, and a melee whenever I feel like it, why would I need a melee?
==Aelryinth
Spells at the level they use them, to start. It makes no sense that you get bloodline spells a level after you can cast that spell level. Either let them skip prereqs for bloodline feats or replace them with something like the wizard has (feats spellcasters actually use instead of the weird hodgepodge that bloodlines give). But other than that, I don't actually know what would make them better. I can point out problems, but solutions (especially ones without unintended consequences) take a lot more work. The basic problem with sorcerer is that they have literally one real class feature other than spells, bloodline. And it's not a particularly spectacular one.
Move bloodline spells up a full 2 levels. Ie, Instead of getting your 5th level spell at 11th level, they should get it at 9th. Either have it count as a 4th level spell for them, or (better) allow them to use spell slots they would gain from high charisma to cast them a level earlier. Why should bloodline "thematic" spells show up a level later for that bloodline than than some other sorcerer who took it as soon as possible. They should get them earlier. And they still just get them at the same level as a Wizard.
part of the reason is probably because they didn't want a 1 level sorc dip to get a free bloodline spell.
I'm okay with moving Spells Known up one level and getting the bloodline spells the level after.
==Aelryinth
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It's a power shift from fighting classes to casting classes. If I can be a spellcaster all the time, and a melee whenever I feel like it, why would I need a melee?
Yes - if you're serious about balancing between casters & martials, the first step is to ban all summon monster spells & polymorphing (a few of the polymorph spells are probably okay) - not because they're the most powerful, but because they step on the toes of martials too hard.
It's also likely the reason that people complained about summoners more than wizards despite them being less powerful - it's because they step on martial toes so hard.
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I disagree that the way to balance martials and casters is to make casters more boring. What if I want to build a shape-shifting warrior?
What you do is make martials more interesting. As far as I am concerned, that problem is solved by Path of War. I am playing in a campaign with 2 dex-based PoW martials, but they feel completely different. Most importantly, they have decision points in every round.
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Summoning wouldn't be so bad if it had more limitations to it.
Go back to 1e.
You could only have one summon spell out at a time.
Dispel Magic could take control of your summons.
Dispel Magic could remove the control of your summons, who would then probably turn back on you. Summons didn't bring in 'friendly' creatures, it brought in forced slaves.
Plus monsters were relatively weaker and more easily dealt with.
If all other spellcasting was impossible while you had a summoned creature under control, or maybe you had to spend a move action to maintain control of it, it wouldn't be so awesome.
But now, you can dump out as many summons as you want, direct them as basically a free action, and throw other spells out at the same time. And they can't be turned back against you, only banished, which is much more difficult then summoning them in the first place.
==Aelryinth
Making spell casting impossible while having a summon out is waaaaay too much... But limiting it to one summon per caster is a good idea. Maybe 1 for every 8 CL or something, in case someone really wants to play a summoning Wizard/Sorcerer.
OTOH, I think summoned creatures should automatically be able to magically understand what their summoner says. That'd be a fair compromise.
Polymorph spells don't give the standard size bonuses, only what it says in the spell. The polymorph adjustment only applies when someone not small or medium polymorphs. You said polymorphing into a bear (a level 4 or 6 wildshape form depending on species) gave +16 strength. You then claimed falsely that there's a bear that's a valid level 8 wildshape form, which would still only give +6. The +6 strength is listed as a size bonus, but it's not out of line with what a fighter has. +6 strength is +3 damage except on a single attack form with no iteratives. There is no accuracy increase because the size penalty eats it. A level 8 fighter has in addition to his BAB +1 accuracy and +3 damage in weapon training and fighter only feats and another +1 accuracy from a feat that's a prerequisite for him but a bad choice for natural weapon users. The fighter's bonuses are all untyped.Yeah, but these are SIZE BONUSES. They stack with enhancement bonuses to Str and such. Sure, melee classes all get bonuses. But Str bonuses and other bonuses are all 'just bonuses'. It doesn't matter if I can do 100% of the melees job...if I can do 90%, and do a whole lot of other stuff, why need a melee?
Because I can fly and teleport and breathe fire and travel the planes and see the future and summon more melee types...
Oh, just picture that Form of the Dragon surrounded in a Fire Shield, too. Wouldn't that just be fun to anyone wanting to hit it?That +8 to Nat armor stacks with Bracers/Mage Armor, and all the other standard AC buffing stuff. It's like giving the wizard an extra suit of field plate to wear, on top of all his other stuff.
It's a power shift from fighting classes to casting classes. If I can be a spellcaster all the time, and a melee whenever I feel like it, why would I need a melee?
==Aelryinth
You've been corrected TWICE and still are harping on the same wrong point.
Allow me to point you back to the original post's first line:
"-in the transfer from 2e to 3e".
There you go.
Now, you may or may not have any knowledge of 3e vs paizo. But in that whole long line of posts, unless I specifically reference Paizo, it's referring to the original subject of the post itself.
So, you are wrong. Flat out wrong. I didn't claim level 8 or anything, I have no idea where you got any of that. Do realize that in 3e you could change into a huge dire polar bear and get a base 29 Str, just like that, before enhancements and inherents and whatnot. Later in 3.5, it got changed to 'just' a +18 Str modifier, since it meant Druids could dump Str, the wildshape would supply all they needed.
And we won't even talk about Giant-size, which could take you all the way up to Colossal+ in size, with all attendant size mods.
BUT, if we're turning into a bear at level 8 for a +6 size bonus for size L, that's +3/+3 th/dmg, for -1 th from size.
At level 8, the fighter gets +1/+1 for weapon training in one group of weapons.
Look at that, the druid as the +1/+2 dmg advantage.
And then you're summoning up a weapon focus feat out of nowhere. As if a wildshaping druid would NOT find it useful taking Weapon Focus (Bite or Claw). Okay, only a +0/+2 advantage.
That's great, how are you balancing the three natural attacks vs the two iteratives of the fighter, now? Because you know the primary bite is at full BAB, and the claws at -2. If the fighter is going to match that, he has to use TWF, which now means spending money on an off hand weapon he has NO bonuses with, AND eating the -2 TWF penalty, which puts the TH/Dmg discrepancy right back where it was.
And this, of course, is without further spells buttressing the druid.
As I noted, he doesn't have to be as good as the fighter at melee combat. He has to be good enough to do the melee job, and then be a druid at a druid's job, which the fighter can't do at all. Show the fighter to the door, there's someone more versatile around.
==Aelryinth
Here's a small list of what fighters lost going from 2e to 3e.
Let me add one: WBL. In 1e, you generally couldn't buy items, you just found them. The ones you found were determined randomly. The random tables were heavily geared towards magic weapons, armor, and shields -- stuff the fighter can use. By 10th level or so, the fighter more than likely had an intelligent magic sword that could grant him powers, along with magic armor and a magic shield. His WBL naturally ended up being several times everyone else's.
Mmm, wealth distribution tables. 65% of magic weapons were longswords! Yesss...
And oh, the sweet smell of Eberron Cheese. Planar Shepherd was just one of the fantastically broken classes that came out of that world. Great flavor, great tone, who the HECK let the mechanics of them pass?
What was that list, now...
Planar Shepherd, of course. Turn into an Efreet, grant wishes! Yay! It is Good to be an Orcish Druid.
THe breland secret agent that got to ignore all opponent's dex mods to AC.
The shifter class that gave them full lycanthropic stat mods. +16 to Str, +8 to con, etc etc? Sure!
The cleric PRC that gave out, what, +10 domains?
That elven ancestral class that, while cool, was the first to do changeable feats every day...and full str to off hand dmg.
The first PrC's for paladin-wizards and paladin-monks!
a half-PrC from Karrn that (gasp) let warriors ignore ACP on their armor and move with full stealth mods!
==Aelryinth
Making spell casting impossible while having a summon out is waaaaay too much... But limiting it to one summon per caster is a good idea. Maybe 1 for every 8 CL or something, in case someone really wants to play a summoning Wizard/Sorcerer.
OTOH, I think summoned creatures should automatically be able to magically understand what their summoner says. That'd be a fair compromise.
I like that idea. It would mesh well with the Unearthed Arcana options so summon the same creatures with each spell - each time you get a fire mephit (sa), you get Sparky the mephit, who recognises you and can pass on information from last time, e.g. when scouting before the last spell's duration expired.
Until Sparky gets brutally killed because Mondolf the Uncaring tossed him into a trap, and then tells all his friends about Mondolf, and suddenly you now have to wonder why Mondolf can summon anything at all, and they don't go to some Mephit Noble and complain about this particular summoner so something can be done about him.
There was even an FR adventure in Dungeon where a wizard figures out a spell to 'summon PC's' using clips of their hair, and they are hapless and completely under his control when he does it. THey have to backtrack, find him, and take care of his little problem.
The problem with the spell is...what if someone says its okay to, say, Summon your mentor, the level 12 wizard, to save your butt? What happens when you have an elite order of fighters whose sole purpose is to be ready to be Summoned to save the caster?
i.e. the PF method of just conjuring astral 'templates' that are all the same and vanish when done just saves a lot of headaches.
Not nearly as dangerous for summoners, however. More's the pity. Summoning was THE most dangerous branch of magic in pretty much every novel out there, but nowadays, its treated like Pokemon, let's be friends! I'll summon you out into situations of horrific danger to fight slavishly for me, and you'll sit there and be obedient! It's a great world!
==Aelryinth
If the summoner is going to be a dick about it, then yes, things might change. Otherwise, it would fit with the single spell theme very well.
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Back in the 3E days when people were complaining on the WotC boards about prestige classes being broken they always seemed to defend item creation rules - which I considered more broken than just about anything else (a few exceptions existed, like the Eberron druid prestige class that gave the spell-like abilities of what you shapechanged into - how'd that one pass the editors?).Here's a small list of what fighters lost going from 2e to 3e.Let me add one: WBL. In 1e, you generally couldn't buy items, you just found them. The ones you found were determined randomly. The random tables were heavily geared towards magic weapons, armor, and shields -- stuff the fighter can use. By 10th level or so, the fighter more than likely had an intelligent magic sword that could grant him powers, along with magic armor and a magic shield. His WBL naturally ended up being several times everyone else's.
Well - in 3E fewer people used item creation feats at all because it cost EXP to use, so it didn't disrupt too many tables.
nah, they used them all the time. The use of xp became a TOOL.
Why? Because of the rules. If you were lower level then the rest of the party, you made more xp so you could 'catch up'. You could continuously spend this 'free xp' to make items, staying exactly one level behind the rest of the party.
In the Living Greyhawk (like PFS) campaign, there were people who got close to the level cap, and just continually made magic items with their xp for others and themselves, becoming hugely overgeared and gearing up their friends (think eternal level 11's with level 15 worth of gear). They eventually had to institute xp earned instead of xp kept as a rule, and it's one of the reasons why PFS doesn't allow item creation feats (problems with custom items is the other).
==Aelryinth
Giving it the revised spell list, revised point cost/level availability for certain evolutions and maybe a limit to the max number of natural attacks would have been more than enough to make sure no Summoner would be able "to do everything". At least no more than any other 6/9 caster.
Did Summoners need a nerf? Sure... But Paizo overdid it. As usual.
It's like the dev team is incapable of nerfing anything without nuking it into oblivion.
Not only do I prefer the unchained summoner, I find it one of paizo's better classes.
I build mine to be strong enough in melee to kill mooks, use the SLA, and cast good CC spells as needed. Solid social skills, umd, and a pocket Fighter drowning in their own skill points is really a lot to bring to the table.
Yeah it lost concepts covered from the old one, but overall the class is way better in terms of something fun to have at the table. I've been in 3 campaigns where the summoner being there and playing that class just made the game worse.
Not only do I prefer the unchained summoner, I find it one of paizo's better classes.
I build mine to be strong enough in melee to kill mooks, use the SLA, and cast good CC spells as needed. Solid social skills, umd, and a pocket Fighter drowning in their own skill points is really a lot to bring to the table.
Yeah it lost concepts covered from the old one, but overall the class is way better in terms of something fun to have at the table. I've been in 3 campaigns where the summoner being there and playing that class just made the game worse.
I completely disagree. The goal was to tone down the class' power, not reduce the variety of characters that could be built. And that's why I think the Unchained Summoner went waaaaay too far with the nerfs.
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My one and only complaint with the UC Summoner: I was planning on a kobold synthesis that built out as a dragon. He channeled the power of his ancestors or something like that. It's pretty hard to build a dragon eidolon now.
No it isn't. You can do it pretty easily with an Elemental. You don't get a breath weapon, but breath weapons were never great, and you can get just about everything else.
I completely disagree. The goal was to tone down the class' power, not reduce the variety of characters that could be built. And that's why I think the Unchained Summoner went waaaaay too far with the nerfs.
Actually one of the complaints the change was meant to address was to produce outsiders that fit better within the existing golarion cosmology. So in some ways one of the goals WAS to reduce the "variety" of characters.
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I completely disagree. The goal was to tone down the class' power, not reduce the variety of characters that could be built. And that's why I think the Unchained Summoner went waaaaay too far with the nerfs.Actually one of the complaints the change was meant to address was to produce outsiders that fit better within the existing golarion cosmology. So in some ways one of the goals WAS to reduce the "variety" of characters.
Besides, while customization is itself a good thing, too much invariably leads to OP combinations and/or trap options.
A theoretical question regarding an unchained fighter - how much better would you make it at combat and what else would it have?
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A theoretical question regarding an unchained fighter - how much better would you make it at combat and what else would it have?
Well, what do you mean by combat? DPR? Saves? Mobility? What?
Because I don't think anyone really cares about raising Fighter DPR. They do fine there. Or AC, they do fine there, too.
But most people would give them a second Good Save (I prefer Will), and some sort of mobility option (I give them 10 foot steps).
Plus maybe some ancillary stuff (I give them the Sohei thing where they always act in the surprise round, and give them an Evasion equivalent for Fortitude Saves), but nothing game changing for the most part. Many people also suggest some shortened Feat chains (something that helps everyone, but helps the Fighter more), though I don't personally do a lot of that. Some abilities to actually be good with more than one weapon would also be sorta nice.
Aside from that, the big change people want is skills and out of cvombat utility. More skills, being better with the skills they get, some additional utility abilities, and there you go.
So, areas people think need improvement:
-Saves
-Mobility
-Utility, both in combat and out of it.
-Skills (a subset of utility, but a relevant one)
-Versatility
Things people are mostly fine with:
-DPR
-AC
Or to put it simply: Fighters are fine at standing around dealing damage and avoiding HP damage from other martial characters. Not the best, maybe, but perfectly serviceable. They need help with everything else.
A theoretical question regarding an unchained fighter - how much better would you make it at combat and what else would it have?
Again, it's about the class' focus.
When someone considers a fighter he does so between other martial classes. In other words to be selected for play the fighter competes with Barbarian, Bloodrager, Brawler, Cavalier, Gunslinger, Paladin, Ranger, Samurai, Slayer, Swashbuckler.So the question should be what does the fighter offer more than those other classes? Even with the latest band aid and full system mastery very little.
Yes the fighter has more feats and if you go full archer that allows you to make a competitive choice (because there are so many good archery feats), otherwise other classes generally give you more than the fighter can. Their DPR is similar or superior to the fighter's, they offer way more utility, are generally mobile, in many cases come equipped with magic, don't have prenerfed options (weapon training vs studied target...), are not dependent on single weapons, have better defenses, can give you a pet and above all are usually more mobile.
So on top of having the same or higher DPR as the FIGHTER other martials give you more. Why choose to play a fighter then?
The class needs to be rebuilt and offer something different and useful compared to other martials while some of the most galring problems (2+int skills, bravery, martial training at lvl 5...) need to be adressed straight on. Companion books like WMH are band aid at best because they cannot change the base chassis of the class and compared with the competition it simply needs changing.
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I have been working on "unchaining" the fighter for my games. This is what I am running with right now.
Class Skills
The fighter’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
BAB: Good, Fort: Good, Ref: Poor, Will: Poor
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, light, and medium) and shields (including tower shields).
Martial Student (Ex): At 1st level the fighter gains the Combat Expertise, Combat Stamina, Power Attack, and the Weapon Focus feats as bonus feats. The fighter gains these feats even if he does not have the normal prerequisites. The fighter can not exchange these feats for other feats when they gain the Versatility ability at 5th level, but they can change which weapon they have weapon focus with.
Bonus Feats: At 2nd level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”
Bravery (Ex): At 2nd-level, the fighter is immune to effects that cause the shaken condition. For more severe fear, the effect is lessened by one step (cowering → panicked → frightened → shaken → no fear). The severity is reduced by two steps at 6th, by three steps at 10th, and 14th-level, he is immune to [fear] effects.
Sterner Stuff (Ex): At 2nd level Fighters learn to push past conditions that would normally stop lesser warriors. Fighters gain the ability to suppress one of the following effects (compulsion, confused, dazed, dazzled, death effects, disintegration, energy drained, exhausted, fascinated, fatigued, nauseated, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned, polymorph, sickened, staggered, stunned, or unconscious) for a number of rounds equal to their fighter level + their Constitution modifier per day. The rounds do not have to be used consecutively. At the end of this time the suppression ends and the fighter gets to make a second save against the condition if a save is allowed. The effect that is suppressed is chosen by the fighter when he activates this ability. Activating this ability is an immediate action. While using this ability the fighter can not take full round actions. At 10th level the fighter can choose two conditions Note: this uses up 2 uses each round), at 15th level he may choose three conditions (Note: this uses up 3 uses each round), and at 20th level he may choose four conditions (Note: this uses up 4 uses each round.
Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th), these bonuses increase by + 1 each time, to a maximum –5 reduction of the armor check penalty and a + 5 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed. The fighter can also gain DR equal to their Armor Training modifier as a swift action. The DR remains active until the start of the fighters next turn. The fighter must be using armor or a shield to activate this ability. a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.
In addition, the fighter learns to strengthen up his natural defenses. Each time he improves his armor training he gains a bonus to one of his saving throws. (Example: An 11th level fighter could chose to have a + 3 to his will saves, or a + 1 to his reflex saves and a + 2 to his will saves, or a + 1 to all of his saves).
Weapon Training (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a + 1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.
Every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and 16th, 20th), a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a + 1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by + 1 each. For example, when a fighter reaches 8th level, he receives a + 1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one weapon group and a + 2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the weapon group selected at 4th level. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.
Fighters gain proficiency with any exotic weapons within the weapon groups they select.
A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the fighter’s Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group.
Weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups):
Axes: battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, handaxe, heavy pick, light pick, orc double axe, and throwing axe.
Blades, Heavy: bastard sword, elven curve blade, falchion, greatsword, longsword, scimitar, scythe, and two-bladed sword.
Blades, Light: dagger, kama, kukri, rapier, sickle, starknife, and short sword.
Bows: composite longbow, composite shortbow, longbow, and shortbow.
Close: gauntlet, heavy shield, light shield, punching dagger, sap, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, and unarmed strike.
Crossbows: hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, and light repeating crossbow.
Double: dire flail, dwarven urgrosh, gnome hooked hammer, orc double axe, quarterstaff, and two-bladed sword.
Flails: dire flail, flail, heavy flail, morningstar, nunchaku, spiked chain, and whip.
Hammers: club, greatclub, heavy mace, light hammer, light mace, and warhammer.
Monk: kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and unarmed strike.
Natural: unarmed strike and all natural weapons, such as bite, claw, gore, tail, and wing.
Pole Arms: glaive, guisarme, halberd, and ranseur.
Spears: javelin, lance, longspear, shortspear, spear, and trident.
Thrown: blowgun, bolas, club, dagger, dart, halfling sling staff, javelin, light hammer, net, shortspear, shuriken, sling, spear, starknife, throwing axe, and trident.
Hard Hitter (Ex): At 5th level a fighter’s attacks made with a weapon they have weapon focus in are treated as silver, or cold iron for the purpose of overcoming DR. At 9th level the fighter can choose to have these attacks treated as adamantine for the propose of overcoming DR. At 13th level the fighter can choose to have these attacks treated as matching the fighter’s alignment. (example: a lawful good fighters attacks would meet the DR lawful or the DR/good requirement.) At 17th level the fighter can chose to activate two of his hard hitting abilities on the same attack. Activating this ability is a swift action. Only melee and range attacks up to 30 feet gain the benefits from this ability. Note: Until 17th level the fighter can only by-pass one type of DR at a time.
In addition, the fighter can choose to cause one of the following conditions to affect the target of his attack. This option must be chosen at the start of the fighter’s turn. Note: The fighter can not overcome DR with this ability and have DR from his Armor Training ability in the same round.) Also until 17th level the fighter can not chose to overcome DR and inflict a condition on a target with the same attack.
Angered: The target is angry at the fighter, and takes a -2 penalty to it’s base attack for any attack that does not target the fighter. The penalty increases to -4 at 10th level, and – 6 at 15th level.
Bewildered: The target becomes bewildered, taking a –2 penalty to AC. The target takes an additional –2 penalty to AC against all attacks made by the fighter. At 10th level and 15th level, the penalty to AC against attacks made by the fighter increases by –2 (to a total maximum of –8).
Hampered: All of the target’s speeds are reduced by half (to a minimum of 5 feet). In addition, the target cannot take a 5-foot step.
At 9th level the fighter can choose this additional condition.
Maim: The fighter cuts deep into the enemy causing horrible damage. The fighter causes 1d2 + any damage modifiers (from weapon training and weapon specialization) to the target’s Strength, or Dexterity. The target has to make a Fortitude save against DC 10 + 1/2 the fighter’s level + the modifier the fighter used to make the attack (normally Strength or Dexterity). A successful save halves the ability damage. This ability can not drop a target’s Strength or Dexterity score below 1.
At 13th level the fighter can choose this additional condition.
Unconscious: The fighter knocks the target unconscious. The target has to make a Fortitude save against DC 10 + 1/2 the fighter’s level + the modifier the fighter used to make the attack (normally Strength or Dexterity) or be knocked unconscious.
At 17th level the fighter can choose this additional condition.
Death: The fighter makes a death blow. The target has to make a Fortitude save against DC 10 + 1/2 the fighter’s level + the modifier the fighter used to make the attack (normally Strength or Dexterity) to negate this death affect. (Note: Death is a permanent affect,)
The duration for a chosen condition last for 1 round at 5th level, 2 rounds at 9th level, 3 rounds at 13th level, and 4 rounds at 17th level. A target can be affected by multiple conditions at the same time.
Versatility (Ex): At 5th-level, a fighter may spend 1 hour of preparation each day to exchange a number of his bonus combat feats (up to to his Weapon Training bonus) for another combat feat for which he also meets the prerequisites. The old feat cannot be one that is was being used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. He may only do this once per day, but it can be done at any time. This preparation can be broken into 15 min. segments. Ex. The fighter spends 40 minutes preparing to his change his tactics, but is interrupted by a goblin attack. He still needs to spend time preparing for another 30 minutes before he can exchange his feats.
Strategist (Ex): At 6th level, a fighter that has teamwork feats may treat his allies as also possessing those feats for determining whether he gains effect from them, though his allies gain no effects unless they too have those feats. All tactical conditions must be met at the time.
Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a fighter chooses one weapon, such as the longsword, greataxe, or longbow. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type. In addition, the fighter gains the ability to make two swift actions on his turn.
I edited this to add the spoiler and I made bold the changes I made. I also made it so that weapon training and armor training increase to + 5.
I'm quite fond of the name "Sterner Stuff". :p
I'm quite fond of the name "Sterner Stuff". :p
Yes, I borrowed that one from your build for a fighter I believe, but changed what it did. It is an awesome name for an ability.