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So, this now seems to be coming up more and more with recent releases. My question is in the title. Is there actually somewhere in the books a clear definition for what is and is not a "manufactured" weapon?
Previously, this was fairly simple. A "manufactured" weapon would include anything that was not a natural weapon, an improvised weapon, or an unarmed strike.
However, with the most recent release, there's been some injected confusion. Namely the warlock's mystic bolts. The mystic bolts are wielded as if light one-handed weapons, are not unarmed strikes, are not improvised weapons, and are not natural weapons. By previous understanding, this would shunt it into the "manufactured" weapons category. However, they are very clearly not "manufactured" by the layman's understanding of the word, which leaves the mystic bolts in this odd void of non-conformity when it comes to understanding just what type of weapon they are.
Back when they released occult adventures, the kineticist and mindblade magus also created this confusion. Kinetic blade conjures weapons out of energy... which means it's not manufactured? unless you're a telekineticist and injecting the blast into a manufactured weapon? It's an odd corner case that is, again, not an improvised weapon, not an unarmed strike, and not a natural weapon. Same deal with mindblade magus. His mindblades are not improvised, not unarmed, and not natural, but are they manufactured? I would also say the same question can be made of the "flame blade" spell.
Why is this relevant, you might ask? two immediate examples I can think of: The sense vitals spell only grants sneak attack damage on manufactured weapons, and it's a pretty thematic and powerful option for the new warlock. There's also the combat stamina feat, which keys off of "a manufactured weapon, unarmed strike, or natural weapon attack", which basically discludes only improvised weapons or these nebulous "in-between" weapons that may or may not count as manufactured.
So I guess if I were to ask the design team this question as a FAQ, it would be:
"Do conjured weapons, such as the warlock's mystic bolt, the kineticist's kinetic blade, and the mindblade magus's psychic pool, count as manufactured weapons for the purpose of spells, feats and abilities that require one, such as sense vitals?"
...No!
Is it 'crafted'? then no, it is not manufactured.
Manufactured has it's plain english meaning if it is not defined.
All those mentioned are supernatural or spell like effects they are obviously not manufactured.
...No!
Is it 'crafted'? then no, it is not manufactured.
Manufactured has it's plain english meaning if it is not defined.
All those mentioned are supernatural or spell like effects they are obviously not manufactured.
But plain english meaning is not always the answer, especially in a rules-driven system and especially in a fantasy setting that is certainly not plain english.
When you have a term that is commonly used (here, manufactured) but not defined, it creates confusion. This is why I am asking that they provide a definition for this game term.
So, this now seems to be coming up more and more with recent releases. My question is in the title. Is there actually somewhere in the books a clear definition for what is and is not a "manufactured" weapon?
Previously, this was fairly simple. A "manufactured" weapon would include anything that was not a natural weapon, an improvised weapon, or an unarmed strike.
However, with the most recent release, there's been some injected confusion. Namely the warlock's mystic bolts. The mystic bolts are wielded as if light one-handed weapons, are not unarmed strikes, are not improvised weapons, and are not natural weapons. By previous understanding, this would shunt it into the "manufactured" weapons category. However, they are very clearly not "manufactured" by the layman's understanding of the word, which leaves the mystic bolts in this odd void of non-conformity when it comes to understanding just what type of weapon they are.
This isn't new, though. Flame Blade is in the CRB.
This isn't new, though. Flame Blade is in the CRB.So, this now seems to be coming up more and more with recent releases. My question is in the title. Is there actually somewhere in the books a clear definition for what is and is not a "manufactured" weapon?
Previously, this was fairly simple. A "manufactured" weapon would include anything that was not a natural weapon, an improvised weapon, or an unarmed strike.
However, with the most recent release, there's been some injected confusion. Namely the warlock's mystic bolts. The mystic bolts are wielded as if light one-handed weapons, are not unarmed strikes, are not improvised weapons, and are not natural weapons. By previous understanding, this would shunt it into the "manufactured" weapons category. However, they are very clearly not "manufactured" by the layman's understanding of the word, which leaves the mystic bolts in this odd void of non-conformity when it comes to understanding just what type of weapon they are.
It may not be new, but these recent releases have changed it from a very corner case to something that affects interactions between multiple classes and abilities. I think it's important to get this cleared up, because I'm fairly certain someone is going to take a warlock to a PFS table and try to use sense vitals, and then this is going to come up.
Manufactured weapons as a concept are really poorly defined in the rules overall and it's made even more confusing because often they're just referred to as 'weapons' rather than specifically manufactured weapons.
So poorly defined, in fact, that I only found a few instances of the word "manufactured" in the core rulebook. 2 of them about how the monks unarmed strikes count as both "manufactured" weapons and as "unarmed strikes", and one in the skills section, but it's just talking about applications of knowledge skills. One of them, interestingly, is in the description of haste. Haste, apparently, only grants an extra attack with "one natural or manufactured weapon".
Also interestingly, the spell "magic weapon" does NOT contain the word manufactured, yet calls out the monk's unarmed strike specifically: "A monk's unarmed strike is considered a weapon".
This leads me to believe that "manufactured" is basically a catch-all for "non-improvised, non-natural, non-unarmed".
But, again, I would like that defined as clearly as possible, as it does seem to be a game term.
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The answer seems pretty simple to me...
Is it manufactured? Did this thing that is a weapon under-go manufacturing in some way? Nope
Is it a natural weapon? Nope
Is it an unarmed strike? Nope
What is it then? Well, it's a Mind Blade... a Kinetic Whip... a Mystic Bolt. They simply are what they are and nothing more.
So for said effect that requires a "manufactured weapon" it's a no-go
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I prefer logical rules interpretation, so I'd evaluate it on a case by case basis;
If the rule were saying that manufactured weapons can be created from special materials... then no, a Mindblade's psychic weapon, being formed of psychic energy, cannot be created using different physical materials.
If the rule were saying that manufactured weapons (unlike natural weapons) get iterative attacks from the character's BAB... then yes, a Mindblade's psychic weapons, being classified as light/one-handed/two-handed like physically (rather than psychically) manufactured weapons, follow the same rule.
IMO looking for a single universal ruling is inherently the wrong approach. At the time many of the rules were written 'natural' and 'manufactured' were the only categories and the rules were written under that understanding. They, obviously, could not take into account the future addition of weapons which incorporated some aspects of manufactured (or natural) weapons, but not others. Thus, trying to retroactively apply (or eliminate) all aspects of those older categories will inevitably result in nonsensical results.
Any form of 'logical' rules interpretation that somehow makes obviously supernatural and spell effects 'manufactured' is going to make little headway at my table.
To mirror Josh-o-lantern... You do not have to define what something is to know what it is not.
If there is some rule or effect that only applies with manufactured weapons, you do not have to suddenly define all weapons, only which ones are manufactured to apply the rule. Either it is crafted by SOMEONE, or it is not.
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Any form of 'logical' rules interpretation that somehow makes obviously supernatural and spell effects 'manufactured' is going to make little headway at my table.
Hope you start enforcing that by making haste not work with the mindblade magus, the warlock, or the kineticist, then. Also, any blade kineticist that takes celerity is pretty boned as well.
See, my problem with the word "manufactured" that paizo has been using, is that with these newer "conjured/supernatural" weapons, it creates thematic problems. Why should a dagger that the mindblade conjured up be any less capable than a real dagger for striking that single spot found by sense vitals? Why should someone who can wield weapons made from pure energy just as easily as physical weapons suddenly fall short with haste? It almost seems arbitrary to enforce this kind of limitation, especially when these weapons otherwise function the same as other weapons.
To me, I think that this is exactly why the term needs to be either defined or changed. In a rules setting, it is perfectly logical to attempt to find the game definition of a term that is used multiple times throughout. There are two things they can say that would kill the confusion as well. They can say "Manufactured weapons are just that; weapons that were created and have physical and permanent properties." and they can say "Manufactured weapons are typically a catch-all for any weapons that are not natural weapons, improvised weapons, or unarmed strikes." and possibly even a "this will be reflected in future errata".
That said, I've personally flagged the post for FAQ.
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The answer seems pretty simple to me...
Is it manufactured? Did this thing that is a weapon under-go manufacturing in some way? Nope
Is it a natural weapon? Nope
Is it an unarmed strike? Nope
What is it then? Well, it's a Mind Blade... a Kinetic Whip... a Mystic Bolt. They simply are what they are and nothing more.
So for said effect that requires a "manufactured weapon" it's a no-go
Except the three simple weapons (the Club, the quarterstaff, and, to a lesser extent, the wooden stake) which all feature a non-existent cost because they are basically found weapons. Although you could manufacture them, they don't require any manufacturing to meet the weapon's description.
That said, I'm pretty sure they qualify as manufactured weapons.
Baval has an interesting point. A blade of magical energy that you created yourself is pretty much by definition manufactured.
Johnny Devo does too. What, fundamentally, about a psychic dagger makes it so that it should not benefit from effects like sense vitals and haste? Or prevent an unholy creature from dealing extra damage to good aligned enemies? In a way that it's logically consistent that a regular dagger would not have those problems.
Don't really have much to add other than that those are two really good points though.
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Again, viewing this as an 'either / or' question leads to madness. Searching the PRD for 'manufactured weapon" and going down the list skipping the more debatable items;
Undersized Weapons - Yes, a Centaur with these powers would create medium (rather than large) sized weapons.
Juju zombie Attacks - No, a Juju zombie does not retain the ability to create weapons with these powers.
Creeping Paralysis - Yes, striking a lich with a non reach mystical weapon risks paralysis.
Seastrike - Yes, you may use mystical weapons underwater as if you had freedom of movement.
Disguise weapon spell - No, you cannot make a mystical energy weapon look like a wooden club.
Vow of cleanliness - Yes, you may strike unclean creatures with mystical weapons without violating your vow.
Et cetera. In short... sometimes they ARE 'manufactured weapons' and sometimes they ARE NOT. Probably they ARE in most cases, but to apply one standard in all cases would yield complete nonsense.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Previously, this was fairly simple. A "manufactured" weapon would include anything that was not a natural weapon, an improvised weapon,
or an unarmed strike.wielded as if light one-handed weapons, are not unarmed strikes, are not improvised weapons, and are not natural weapons.
It isn't spelled out, but a manufactured weapon is anything that isn't a natural weapon or an improvised weapon.
Unarmed Strikes are manufactured weapons (they didn't exist before we made tools into weapons.)
One definition:
to invent fictitiously; fabricate; concoct:
fits.
An Unarmed Strike is invented from a non-weapon body part. It can't be a natural weapon already.
The same for improvised, you didn't manufacture a weapon. You used an object as best you could as a weapon, but it never becomes a manufactured weapon.
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If a weapon isn't an unarmed strike or natural weapon (bite, claws, slam, etc), it's a manufactured weapon.
i.e.: something that's not part of the attacker's body.
Again, viewing this as an 'either / or' question leads to madness. Searching the PRD for 'manufactured weapon" and going down the list skipping the more debatable items;
Undersized Weapons - Yes, a Centaur with these powers would create medium (rather than large) sized weapons.
I think that the fact that most abilities lack the phrase "sized appropriately for you" mean that you can, in fact, manifest an oversized weapon if you so wish. Here, I think that they both count as manufactured and the user has a choice of what size he wants to make the weapon in the first place.
Juju zombie Attacks - No, a Juju zombie does not retain the ability to create weapons with these powers.
True, but I think that's unrelated to whether or not these mystical weapons are also manufactured. The juju zombie could still attack with those weapons, it just no longer can make them in the first place.
Creeping Paralysis - Yes, striking a lich with a non reach mystical weapon risks paralysis.Seastrike - Yes, you may use mystical weapons underwater as if you had freedom of movement.
Both directly a result of if mystical weapons were also considered manufactured.
Disguise weapon spell - No, you cannot make a mystical energy weapon look like a wooden club.
This one I feel is debatable. For the mindblade, for example, it pretty much acts like the weapon in every other way. Spells like magic weapon, for example, work on it, but as soon as the mindblade drops the weapon or otherwise lets it dissipate, the spell is lost. I feel disguise weapon should work the same way for the mindblade, but not at all on the kinetic blade or mystic bolts. but not because they aren't manufactured, but more because they are impermanent. They don't exist long enough to have such a spell cast on them.
Vow of cleanliness - Yes, you may strike unclean creatures with mystical weapons without violating your vow.Et cetera. In short... sometimes they ARE 'manufactured weapons' and sometimes they ARE NOT. Probably they ARE in most cases, but to apply one standard in all cases would yield complete nonsense.
Basically, I think that all these answers can be reached even with a constant and valid definition given for the term. In my opinion, even though trying to come up with a single definition can lead to some madness, keeping it vague and forcing a case-by-case basis leads to even more madness as time goes in. I think it would be easier to fix a larger problem, fix what oddities pop up, and conform to that definition in future releases to prevent further confusion. Kinda like breaking an improperly healed bone so you can set it again.
Some fey, humanoids, monstrous humanoids, and outsiders do not possess natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes, but treat them as weapons for the purpose of determining attack bonuses, and they must use the two-weapon fighting rules when making attacks with both hands.
Despite how it might intuitively should work, unarmed strikes are not treated as "natural weapons". Here's the bestiary language supporting the idea.
Beyond that, one can TWF using unarmed strikes (you can't with natural weapons). One can use iteratives with unarmed strikes (you can't with natural weapons). Etc.
So despite how one might initially assume unarmed strikes would be categorized, for PF purposes, they are generally treated as manufactured weapons, not natural ones.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Basically, all unarmed strikes are natural weapons, but not all natural weapons are unarmed strikes, and only monk unarmed strikes are manufactured weapons. Because some effects rely on unarmed strikes and others on natural weapons, they're given separate categories even though they're similar in functionality.
Monk class features and spell benefits don't change the base rules.
Unarmed Strike is on the weapon chart, so it is a manufactured weapon. It isn't a natural weapon, but can be treated as such for a number of effects that call it out that way specifically.
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If a weapon isn't an unarmed strike or natural weapon (bite, claws, slam, etc), it's a manufactured weapon.
i.e.: something that's not part of the attacker's body.
Unarmed strike is described as being both.
But regarding that term, I think it's one of the many that they just sling around with the assumption that it's already defined somewhere. Pathfinder definitely seems to have lots of rules like that. Maybe they are rules that got cut in the printing/editing process, but they are certainly ill-defined concepts.
I also think most of the ill-defined concepts are intended to be ruled on by the GM, should issues arise. Games where GMs serve more as refs than as the absolute power in the setting (like PFS), are often troubled by ill-defined concepts more than is intended with the game's design.
Unarmed strike is described as being both.If a weapon isn't an unarmed strike or natural weapon (bite, claws, slam, etc), it's a manufactured weapon.
i.e.: something that's not part of the attacker's body.
I think it counts as both, for ease of play... You can't craft an unarmed strike, no matter how good a blacksmith you are, so I'd say it isn't manufactured.
There's no in-game definition for "manufactured" AFAIK, so I'm going with the common English definition.
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You can't craft an unarmed strike, no matter how good a blacksmith you are, so I'd say it isn't manufactured.Unarmed strike is described as being both.If a weapon isn't an unarmed strike or natural weapon (bite, claws, slam, etc), it's a manufactured weapon.
i.e.: something that's not part of the attacker's body.
As if blacksmiths are the only ones that can make weapons.
Although you won't describe it as such, a martial artist's unarmed strikes are indeed crafted weapons in real life.
On a side note, Constructs have natural attacks. How are they not manufactured?
Blade snare says:
This spell creates an invisible magic field that does not stop weapons (whether manufactured or natural) from moving toward you, but impedes their motion when they are retracted. When you are hit with a melee attack, attempt a caster level check against your opponent's CMD. If your check succeeds, your opponent's attacking weapon or body part becomes caught in the field, as if magically affixed to your body. If your check fails, your opponent may retract its weapon.
It clearly says weapons and intends all weapons, as it works on any melee attack, and specifies only "manufactured or natural" as the two options.
What this tells us is that most of us have been using too many categories, as even Improvised Weapons are considered Manufactured Weapons.
There are only two categories of weapons, Manufactured or Natural. Any others are only sub categories.
I don't think we can successfully read the tea leaves on intent from a parenthetical phrase in a spell from the campaign setting line.
As if blacksmiths are the only ones that can make weapons.
Although you won't describe it as such, a martial artist's unarmed strikes are indeed crafted weapons in real life.
¬¬'
Did you take that quote from an old kung-fu movie and thought/hoped it'd make a good argument?On a side note, Constructs have natural attacks. How are they not manufactured?
*sigh*
The limb is manufactured. The unarmed strike isn't.
And you understood perfectly well what I meant. Don't us both a favor and don't be willfully dense.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Unarmed strike is described as being both.
Only in special cases. The manufactured weapon Unarmed Strike doesn't say it is a natural weapon.
If I said I wanted all people (short or tall) to feel welcome in my home, would you assume there is some sort of not short not tall person im not including?
+1
That quote lists all weapons manufactured and natural.
theyre manufactured. he manufactured them. he made them out of magic using magic, but he still made them
manufactured weapons are things that are *made* to be *weapons*. As long as someone made them, and intended for them to be a weapon, there you go.
I would not say he manufactured them but manifested them. An argument could be made if the person had created the technique but they are using previously learned skills and thus are only borrowing a premade weapon.
Any form of 'logical' rules interpretation that somehow makes obviously supernatural and spell effects 'manufactured' is going to make little headway at my table.
On reflection, this was a bit of a 'knee-jerk' reaction.
Essentially I stand by saying that a supernatural or spell-like cannot actually be manufactured, but I will amend that to it can be treated as manufactured for some purposes.I don't think there is blanket definition of when it can be so treated that will satisfy every instance though.
Well, it seems we've gotten some official word. However, I'm forced to wonder if they knew the implications of what they were answering. While I totally agree that they don't get the strength bonus, it seems like that's all they meant to confirm, yet the way they answered it also means that it and several abilities like it do not, in fact, work with things like haste or sense vitals.
A Manufactured Weapon would be something that is crafted through the various Craft skills. Although the book doesn't expressly define it, what does "manufactured" mean in regular English? A quick google search shows this as the most common definition:
...to make or produce by hand or machinery...
This means that when I go to create a sword, I use a Forge (back in the days of Pathfinder, this would be "machinery"), various hammers dealing with the malleable steel, a cooling vat, etc. (which are done by hand and/or with tools). This is precisely what manufacturing something is all about.
Do you do that with Mystic Bolts? No? You just dip into your magical essence, and boom, they appear? So then you don't use any form of by-hand or technological tool/process to create them? Then that makes them not a Manufactured Weapon.
I could've told you that it functions more as a Weapon-like Spell (even though it's a Supernatural ability) than an actual Manufactured Weapon, because the definition of a Weapon-like Spell better fits how a Mystic Bolt functions in comparison to a Manufactured Weapon (which can be made Masterwork and enchanted with Enhancement Bonuses and Special Weapon Properties).
Here's a comparison example: if I used Craft (Weapons) to create a Scimitar, that is a Manufactured Weapon, because I am using the Forge and tools by-hand to create it. If I later pick up Master Craftsman and then use Craft (Weapons) to enhance the Scimitar, it's a still a Manufactured Weapon, even though it's augmented by Magic. Now, let's say I eventually pick up Flame Blade as a Spell-like Ability. Flame Blade, although it creates a burning rod that looks like and can be wielded as a Scimitar that deals Fire damage and only requires Touch Attacks, it's not created through my Craft (Weapons) skill, nor is it a permanent weapon that I can later enhance with bonuses or properties.
Now, of that example, which does the Mystic Bolt fit best? You can't enhance it, it's not permanent, it's not created through a Crafting skill. Although it's not a Spell or Spell-Like Ability, it's still a Supernatural Ability, which means it's primarily Magic over mundane, meaning that it best fits functioning as a Weapon-like Spell, especially when it has all of the similarities of a Weapon-like Spell, and hardly any of a Manufactured Weapon.
And guess what? All of that was determined by using the real-world definition of "Manufactured."
A FAQ isn't needed here, but instead more common sense and faith in the English language.
**EDIT** Too much capitalism in the post. This has been mostly fixed.
A Manufactured Weapon would be something that is crafted through the various Craft skills. Although the book doesn't expressly define it, what does "manufactured" mean in regular English? A quick google search shows this as the most common definition:
...to make or produce by hand or machinery...This means that when I go to create a sword, I use a Forge (back in the days of Pathfinder, this would be "machinery"), various hammers dealing with the malleable steel, a cooling vat, etc. (which are done by hand and/or with tools). This is precisely what manufacturing something is all about.
Do you do that with Mystic Bolts? No? You just dip into your magical essence, and boom, they appear? So then you don't use any form of by-hand or technological tool/process to create them? Then that makes them not a Manufactured Weapon.
I could've told you that it functions more as a Weapon-like Spell (even though it's a Supernatural ability) than an actual Manufactured Weapon, because the definition of a Weapon-like Spell better fits how a Mystic Bolt functions in comparison to a Manufactured Weapon (which can be made Masterwork and enchanted with Enhancement Bonuses and Special Weapon Properties).
Here's a comparison example: if I used Craft (Weapons) to create a Scimitar, that is a Manufactured Weapon, because I am using the Forge and tools by-hand to create it. If I later pick up Master Craftsman and then use Craft (Weapons) to enhance the Scimitar, it's a still a Manufactured Weapon, even though it's augmented by Magic. Now, let's say I eventually pick up Flame Blade as a Spell-like Ability. Flame Blade, although it creates a burning rod that looks like and can be wielded as a Scimitar that deals Fire damage and only requires Touch Attacks, it's not created through my Craft (Weapons) skill, nor is it a permanent weapon that I can later enhance with bonuses or properties.
Now, of that example, which does the Mystic Bolt fit best? You can't enhance it, it's not permanent,...
I mean... you're right... but you didn't actually answer anything.
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A Manufactured Weapon would be something that is crafted through the various Craft skills. Although the book doesn't expressly define it, what does "manufactured" mean in regular English? A quick google search shows this as the most common definition:
...to make or produce by hand or machinery...This means that when I go to create a sword, I use a Forge (back in the days of Pathfinder, this would be "machinery"), various hammers dealing with the malleable steel, a cooling vat, etc. (which are done by hand and/or with tools). This is precisely what manufacturing something is all about.
Do you do that with Mystic Bolts? No? You just dip into your magical essence, and boom, they appear? So then you don't use any form of by-hand or technological tool/process to create them? Then that makes them not a Manufactured Weapon.
By that logic, a sword created with Fabricate (spell) isn't a manufactured weapon.
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Well, it seems we've gotten some official word. However, I'm forced to wonder if they knew the implications of what they were answering.
I kept telling you that an either/or answer on this was a bad idea.
They clearly do NOT get the strength bonus received by 'manufactured weapons'.
They clearly DO allow striking a creature without violating a 'Vow of Cleanliness' as permitted by 'manufactured weapons'.
Thus, treating them as one or the other in ALL cases was always going to end in tears.
A Manufactured Weapon would be something that is crafted through the various Craft skills. Although the book doesn't expressly define it, what does "manufactured" mean in regular English? A quick google search shows this as the most common definition:
...to make or produce by hand or machinery...This means that when I go to create a sword, I use a Forge (back in the days of Pathfinder, this would be "machinery"), various hammers dealing with the malleable steel, a cooling vat, etc. (which are done by hand and/or with tools). This is precisely what manufacturing something is all about.
Do you do that with Mystic Bolts? No? You just dip into your magical essence, and boom, they appear? So then you don't use any form of by-hand or technological tool/process to create them? Then that makes them not a Manufactured Weapon.
By that logic, a sword created with Fabricate (spell) isn't a manufactured weapon.
Fabricate is a specific exception to the general norm that spells do not create manufactured weapons, especially when said "weapons" do not adhere to the general rules for manufactured weapons, i.e. Spiritual Weapon and Flame Blade.
In fact, it doesn't betray my point, and this is because you are still required to make the relevant Craft check to properly create the item, as you would if you were creating it outright with any Craft skill.
As it says here:
You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
So, if I have a chunk of steel, and I want to make it into a Masterwork Longsword with this spell, I'd have to make the relevant Craft (Weapons) DC, otherwise the spell fails and the materials are wasted, just as if I had failed a relevant Craft check to make it normally.
The point of that spell is to accelerate the process of mundane Crafting, because quite frankly taking months and years to create a Masterwork Full Plate is a complete waste of time when you can just do it as a Full-Round Action and a spell slot that, later down the road, you probably wouldn't use for anything else, especially if you're a Craft Monkey, saving all of that time for the longer portions of Magic Item Creation, the Enhancement Bonuses and such.
That's not even taking into consideration that implementing Special Materials would make such lengths of basic crafting at least twice as long, if not moreso.
I'll reiterate my first sentence, as it's perhaps the most accurate application:
A Manufactured Weapon would be something that is crafted through the various Craft skills.
By that definition (which I believe should be dubbed the proper definition of Manufactured Weapons), Fabricate doesn't break that concept, and it still maintains that Weapon-like Spells or Abilities aren't Manufactured Weapons.
I think the major distinction between a fabricated and non-fabricated weapons (with the exception of natural weapons) is the label of permanency. If you fabricate a sword it IS a sword, and continues to be a sword until someone actively destroys it.
With supernatural and magical effects that make weapon-like manifestations - they are quite ephemeral. You are merely borrowing or manipulating magical or supernatural energies to create a brief effect. You cannot hold on to them (I do not mean literally).
If you can't put the item in a safe and it still be there 5 years later (again - assuming no outside influence), then it is not a manufactured weapon.
In this sense I believe improvised weapons DO count as fabricated weapons. They are not well made weapons they are not very effective weapons (hence the -4 penalty on attack rolls) but they ARE weapons that were made.
Now - as for Unarmed Strikes - this is the strange and bizarre exception to the rule.
A number of posts back, a comment was made that "the fist does not exist until someone chooses to transform a tool into a weapon"
I thought that was a brilliant comment - though it seemed a number of people misunderstood the sentiment. The post was saying that HANDS are tools and not weapons. The act of taking a tool-like hand, and reshaping it into a very specific configuration that allows it to function as a weapon is the act of fabrication in this case. Having the feat Improved Unarmed Strike indicates a level of practice and discipline with transforming the hand tool into a weapon effectively that most people are unable to accomplish - hence the distinction which allows it to count as a fabricated weapon.
Contrast this to natural weapons - which (for the most part) all members of a species have - and function as a weapon without any manipulation of the appendage.
It seems to me that the difference between natural and weapon attacks is how they interact with iteratives. However only the most twisted of logic makes spell/supernatural effects actually manufactured.
Proposal:
"If you can attack with an effect using iterative attacks you can treat it as manufactured for spells and effects that require a manufactured weapon."
Does that work? It should exclude gaining strength to hit and damage, but allow you to benefit from haste. It does not contradict the rules and is compatible with the weaponlike spells FAQ, near as I can tell.
It seems to me that the difference between natural and weapon attacks is how they interact with iteratives. However only the most twisted of logic makes spell/supernatural effects actually manufactured.
Proposal:
"If you can attack with an effect using iterative attacks you can treat it as manufactured for spells and effects that require a manufactured weapon."Does that work? It should exclude gaining strength to hit and damage, but allow you to benefit from haste. It does not contradict the rules and is compatible with the weaponlike spells FAQ, near as I can tell.
This makes a lot of sense to me. Because it is confirmed that mystic bolts fits in the same "weapon-like spells" category as something like flame blade, it stands to reason that anything that works with flame blade must also work with mystic bolts (within reasonable limits, of course. The duration of mystic bolts existing is probably one of the main things that will create different situations).
So, unless it's less generally accepted than I think it is, flame blade works with haste and flame blade works with sense vitals, therefore mystic bolts should as well.
I'm thinking that the "unsaid" portion of that "weapon-like spells" FAQ is that while those effects are not manufactured weapons, they are, in fact, "manufactured" for effects that require specifically "manufactured", or non-natural weapons.
Well, Flame Blade gets to work with haste and sense vitals because you wield it as a scimitar, which means you get stuff that scimitars get. Mystic Bolts don't have a weapon analogue which is why they work kinda weird.
As an aside, one of the most infuriating things when researching this is that Paizo often uses "weapon" interchangeably with "manufactured weapon". Except natural weapons and weaponlike spells and unarmed strikes are also weapons, just different.