I was applying gather energy to metakinesis and infusions specialization to composite blast. Specialization cancels the composite cost. Super charge cancels the maximized. The end result is empower costing one burn at level 11. Yes, it isn't fully free until past where most games end. But as specialization scales you can add other infusions in without effecting cost.Infusion Specialization only applies to Infusions, which Composite Blasts are not. So Infusion Spec doesn't come into play here.
Though it now occurs to me that would have been a good way to make most people happy.
Have Infusion Specialization be an actual specialization. As-in, you have to choose between:
-Infusion Specialization (reduces the cost of Infusions)
-Metakinetic Specialization (Reduces the cost of Metakinesis)
Those who want the big blasts get the big blasts, those who want the mostly at-will utility and control options get that too.
Then switch them? Infusion specialization to cover the cost of Metakinesis (based on Mark Seifter's posts that metakinesis is supposed to count as infusions for burn control but copyfitting twisted the meaning) and supercharge to cover composite? that means at level 11 you are dropping empowered maximized composite blasts for a single burn. with a con of 24(18 base +2 level +2 belt +2 size) and three burn to power defenses/elemental overflow you can pull off the trick 7 times a day.
Edit: I am an Air fan so Air's reach boosts that to 60' for free as well.
Metakinesis doesn't count as infusions. The copyfitting messed up the writing that metakinesis modifies blasts, not that it's an infusion of any sort. Only thing that reduces metakinesis is Gather Power or Metakinetic Master
So at lvl 8 u cant empower + composite for free with a move action?
+1 Empower
+2 Composite
-1 Gather
-2 Infusion specI mean that would be 12 hit 71 dmg average. That isnt rly impressive in any way, but he cant even do that? Wow this class is dead then
Composite Blasts aren't covered by Infusion Specialization, but are covered by Composite Specialization. Metakinesis such as Empowered and Maximized get covered by Metakinesis Specialization, which instead of making it -1 burn across the board (like the other Specializations) has you select one and use it for one less burn.
Gather Power and Supercharge, however, work to reduce the total cost of the blast from all things that affect the blast, which would be the base cost (0) plus the Composite cost (generally +2, -1 when you get Composite Specialization) plus the Metakinesis cost (+1 to +4, -1 to one when you gain Metakinesis Specialization) plus (Substance Infusion (+1 to +4) plus Form Infusion (+1 to +6) minus Infusion Specialization (-1 to -6)).
Before level 11 you can only cut 3 points of burn using Gather Power (full-round plus move), and then at 11 you can GP for 5 points total or 2 points as a move action.
As you level your blasts grow both in the number of d6s available for you to use, and how much more you're able to do with your blasts for free before Gather Power. +1d6 every odd level is free. Rolling to perform a ranged combat maneuver every round becomes free at 5th level. Rolling to perform a standard action combat maneuver with each attack on a full attack becomes free at 8th level. Flurry of Blasts is a standard action that allows you to roll 2, 3, 4, 5, plus Haste standard action combat maneuvers each round as a ranged attack up to 120 feet away becomes free at 11th level, before Gather Power. Or at 11 you can move action Gather Power and Empower, Entangle, Flurry of Blasts 4 creatures as a standard action for free and deal 1d6 plus modifiers damage to each of them, for no burn cost.
The Kineticist can pump out damage all day long. Not as hard as an archer, but an archer also can't perform standard action combat maneuvers with each arrow in a full-attack. Unless you're a Zen Archer, but they're stupid OP in the right situations anyway.
I actually think all non-aether kineticist get the short end of the stick because they can't throw cottages around.
In my experience being able to grapple mooks at range is very useful. Being able to do it for free is even better!
Aether also benefits from never being out of their element. Being able to move any object is a big advantage for puzzles and creative solutions.
Sure their damage looks lower than others but I think they make up for it.
Every single element can grapple with the Grapple Infusion. Fire and Aether can use the Grapple Infusion with the Wall Infusion but Air, Water, and Earth can both use the Cloud/Deadly Earth Infusion which basically gives those 3 elements a black tentacles spell available to them eventually (13th level for earth and 15 for air/water) [Secondary note, black tentacles is a fairly dangerous spell already but the kineticist version, while burn expensive, can be very, very deadly as it does half blast damage each turn, lasts for a number rounds equal to constitution mod which can get pretty high thanks to elemental overflow, and will have a higher CMB & CMD thanks to elemental overflow].
So in terms of grappling Air, Water, and Earth all have better AOE grapple with no real change in CMB numbers (2 + Kineticist Level + Con (which will increase as you take burn)).
Both Earth and Aether have access to the Bowling infusion for all tripping needs and all elements except fire have access to the Pushing infusion for all Bull Rush needs. Aether is not better at either of these maneuvers which I be more okay with if Aether got to have a bit of the AOE these elements have access to.
Aether does have access to telekinetic maneuvers (this does make Aether superior in single target manuevers) but there is somethings still disappointing in that. Specifically the grappling. Aether is indeed the only element that can Pin an enemy. I'm just kinda sad that I can't do the Damage grapple action. Telekinetic Squeezing or...
I was only talking about telekinetic maneuvers. I actually see aether being a problem for my GMs who struggle when trying to handle casters. At-will invisibility that works against blindsight. At-will fly such that you can also stealth past tremorsense. Stealing objects and opening locks at range (30-480ft). Easy range trapmonkeying with a trait. Being able to lift the whole party over obsticales (this is so troubling that you already see GMs in this thread grasping at reasons it shouldn't work). Aether puppet is also problematic many GMs can't handle extra creatures well. You could use summoning as a way to build up elemental overload, which will probably get you through 2-3 encounters before you even have to become visible. For most of my groups an aether would be just as difficult to handle as a wizard. In my fully optimized group your concerns come up more since nearly every enemy has truesight now, we aren't stealing things. Traps seem rare for RotRLs. But, a telekinetic would probably outperform my magus. At-will force damage (9d6+18 roughly), lots of health, non positive energy healing (huge in my GMs setting), and ranged door opening would really help out.
"Or at 11 you can move action Gather Power and Empower, Entangle, Flurry of Blasts 4 creatures as a standard action for free and deal 1d6 plus modifiers damage to each of them, for no burn cost."
Just cause you can empower doesn't mean you should, necessarily, but that you can.
You absolutely can pay for the the cost of infusions or metakinesis with gather power.
oh that would mean infusion specialization works on both metas and composite blast as long as you used an infusion since the only thing being reduced is total blast cost.
That seems like a tad strong of an interpretation to me.
It is the intended interpretation, as more clearly spelled out here.
Ah that makes more sense.
I'm confused again,
- Empower (1 burn) and maximize (2 Burn) count as blast infusions but the wording in the book is in error and is short listed to be corrected (correct?) thus at level 11 infusion specialization will completely cover their cost.
- Gather energy with Supercharge will provide two points of burn control to cover a composite blast.
resulting in a level 11 putting out an empowered maximized composite blast for a move action and no burn?
to hit +16 (7BAB, 5 DEX, 1 Weapon Focus, 3 Elemental Overflow)
Damage 125 (15D6+15 +1.5 CON mod of 7 +1.5 Elemental Overflow of 6)assumptions of 20 DEX and 24 CON, 3 burn already taken.
Is this correct taking into account Mark Seifter's corrective posts?
Metas are not infusions but can be reduced by gather power and supercharge.
Gather power also works on composite blasts
No, total up the cost and then reduce the total cost of the burn by supercharge. You don't reduce each part.
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The burn of Metakinesis is not reduced by infusion specialization or composite specialization, but it is reduced by Metakinetic Master.
The burn of infusions is reduced by infusion specialisation, but not composite specialization or Metakinetic Master.
The burn of composite blasts is reduced by composite specialization, but not infusion specialization or metakinetic master.
The total burn cost of your metakinesis, composite blast, and infusions are combined and then reduced by gather power/supercharge.
This is the wording from Mark Seifter that led me to this thinking:
"Cool, I'd be glad to help out along the way!
:Rereads the final wording of metakinesis. Spits out drink.:
Woah! Metakinesis's wording is much more unclear than it should be; it's muddled where the cost lies and doesn't specifically say it raises the cost of the blast like infusion. It was supposed to, but copyfitting is a harsh mistress, I guess. I can completely see where you took that away from reading the ability; I wonder why the other people talking about the class hadn't asked me that yet (given there's been a big debate about the class's capabilities, I would have expected someone who disliked the class to point that out by now, given the exact wording). Excellent catch! I will confirm that things that modify your blast all add up to form the cost of your blast.
Yeah, hands-on experience couldn't notice that for sure; mostly only messageboard discussion about metakinesis. Hands-on experience may change your opinion on internal buffer, though, perhaps. I know I found it much more useful than I had initially expected it to be when I got into crunched situations. "
That then means that Metakinesis raises the burn cost like an infusion, and as such infusion specialization would reduce it?
It raises the blast cost, like infusions do. But it's not an infusion. Infusion specialization does not apply. Imbicatus's rundown is precisely correct.
It's been helping to make a slotted horizontal list of what you can add to a blast, with burn costs underneath. I'm having one of my players do this and it's making it a lot easier to basically play LEGO with the Kineticist powers. Doing that, all of this made pretty clear sense to me, though if people have it on lock by this point I guess this post would be mostly for posterity.
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who by the way is scarily attentive to these forums, its almost like he can be summoned by saying kineticist three times into a mirror or something. i honestly feel if an issue came up at a table you could make a post from your phone and probably get an answer back before the session was over. Dude is creepy good at getting clarifications out. very fitting for an occult class author actually.
It really depends on the time of day and the situation. For instance, this weekend my parents are visiting me, so if your game fell on those days, starting this evening, I probably would not be able to clarify for you before the end of the session. ;)
Well, as he says, his daily schedule includes reading the forums and answering questions until he comes across something that makes him sad.
...One wonders what would happen if there was ever a day he didn't read something that made him sad.
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Well, as he says, his daily schedule includes reading the forums and answering questions until he comes across something that makes him sad.
...One wonders what would happen if there was ever a day he didn't read something that made him sad.
[joke]I guess that means that the Design Team's productivity thanks everyone who goes around being negative on the forums?[/joke]
But being serious, I don't want this joke post to suggest in any way that I wouldn't strictly prefer if the forums were a kinder friendlier place. It's forums, so I know that's not necessarily likely, but it would be so so awesome!
Hey, Mark. I just want to make sure some things about Double Blast.
1st. It counts as a Metakinesis for the purposes of Metakinetic Mastery, correct?
2nd. Do both blasts need to target the same creature or can they target different creatures?
It is metakinesis, and you can do what you want with each blast. It's actually more powerful than it seems (and quite powerful) if used as part of a combo with something else for a high-burn alpha-strike (quicken is better otherwise due to being cheaper, assuming you don't need the swift), since you only pay for the other components once.
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Awesome. Though I must admit I was disappointed that you hadn't answered my two questions when I had refreshed about a minute after I posted. Mark, I thought you were better then 3 minutes later!
I kid of course =P Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions and being so enthused to clarify Occult Adventures.
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Just for shiggles, I'm wondering how much damage a 20th level Elemental Annihilator can pull with Omnicide.
Base Damage: 50d10+10
Elemental Overflow: 12 damage
Deadly Aim: 12 damage
Weapon Specialization: +2 damage
Assuming about a 34 Con (Including Elemental Overflow's +6): 12 damage
Total (with static damage): 50d10+48
Empowered: 75d10+72
Average Damage: 484
Burn Taken: ONE. (Zero if you use your Internal Buffer)
Maximized AND Empowered: 822 damage
Burn: 3
That's pretty cool, at least. Not that anyone will ever get high enough level to use it.
Also I imagine rolling 75d10 will be a real pain in the ass for anyone who doesn't use an electronic dice roller.
Am I missing any damage boosters?
Hey Mark, any chance Omnikinesis is compatible with Explosion?
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Oh I love Omnicide even if I will never see it play. I get hellball feelings all over each time I look at that ability!
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Just for shiggles, I'm wondering how much damage a 20th level Elemental Annihilator can pull with Omnicide.
Base Damage: 50d10+10
Elemental Overflow: 12 damage
Deadly Aim: 12 damage
Weapon Specialization: +2 damage
Assuming about a 34 Con (Including Elemental Overflow's +6): 12 damageTotal (with static damage): 50d10+48
Empowered: 75d10+72
Average Damage: 484
Burn Taken: ONE. (Zero if you use your Internal Buffer)Maximized AND Empowered: 822 damage
Burn: 3That's pretty cool, at least. Not that anyone will ever get high enough level to use it.
Also I imagine rolling 75d10 will be a real pain in the ass for anyone who doesn't use an electronic dice roller.
[dice=HAHA SUCK IT REAL DICE]75d10+72
Am I missing any damage boosters?
Hey Mark, any chance Omnikinesis is compatible with Explosion?
Don't forget doubling it for even more damage! Omnicide is a new blast, so technically it is only associated with the universals. However, imagine an empowered omnicide whip full attack!!
Annihilator: "Sure buddy, you could provoke an AoO from my reach if you want...for 484 damage!"
Should half +50 before adding anything else. Each damage is 10d10+10.
Just for shiggles, I'm wondering how much damage a 20th level Elemental Annihilator can pull with Omnicide.
Base Damage: 50d10+10
Elemental Overflow: 12 damage
Deadly Aim: 12 damage
Weapon Specialization: +2 damage
Assuming about a 34 Con (Including Elemental Overflow's +6): 12 damageTotal (with static damage): 50d10+48
Empowered: 75d10+72
Average Damage: 484
Burn Taken: ONE. (Zero if you use your Internal Buffer)Maximized AND Empowered: 822 damage
Burn: 3That's pretty cool, at least. Not that anyone will ever get high enough level to use it.
Also I imagine rolling 75d10 will be a real pain in the ass for anyone who doesn't use an electronic dice roller.
[dice=HAHA SUCK IT REAL DICE]75d10+72
Am I missing any damage boosters?
Hey Mark, any chance Omnikinesis is compatible with Explosion?
Don't forget doubling it for even more damage! Omnicide is a new blast, so technically it is only associated with the universals. However, imagine an empowered omnicide whip full attack!!
Annihilator: "Sure buddy, you could provoke an AoO from my reach if you want...for 484 damage!"
Yet again Kinetic Blade beating literally everything at the damage game makes ME sad. =(
Should half +50 before adding anything else. Each damage is 10d10+10.
No, it's not 5 small blasts, it's one BIG blast dealing 10d10+10 of five different kinds of energy. So I did it properly. It's 50d10+10, except the first 10d10+10 is fire, second, cold, and so on.
I suppose counting as all 5 elements doesn't technically open up all of the infusions, does it. v.v
This was my thought. "It has a Fire component, does that mean it qualifies for fire blasts?"
Could you imagine a Cloud or Wall of this s%$*.
"Pfft, Walls are weak, I can tank this."
"OH GOD I IMMEDIATELY REGRET EVERYTHING"
Edit: Wait not, I did do it wrong. I dropped 40 damage off there somehow.
Whoops.
While on the topic of damage, I'm wondering if anyone has fiddled with the Kineticist and the Revised Action Economy yet. My next campaign we'll be using it full-stop from day one, and I've used it now for half of my campaign that's ending, and all of another little short campaign. One of the players in the next campaign wants to be a Kineticist, and I'm debating whether or not to leave the normal blasts at just 2 actions or expand them a bit.
Would it break everything if I allowed the 2 action attack to be broken into 1 action attacks that deal half damage? It'd allow for Gather Power to do more in a single turn and for the character to sling three blasts as a full round, all dealing half but with the iterative penalties, or a 2 action blast and a 1 action blast, etc. Composite Blasts would be locked in at 2 actions.
Typing it out it seems a bit less straightforward than in my head.
Someone already asked Mark about that in his thread; his response is here, if you're interested.While on the topic of damage, I'm wondering if anyone has fiddled with the Kineticist and the Revised Action Economy yet. My next campaign we'll be using it full-stop from day one, and I've used it now for half of my campaign that's ending, and all of another little short campaign. One of the players in the next campaign wants to be a Kineticist, and I'm debating whether or not to leave the normal blasts at just 2 actions or expand them a bit.
Would it break everything if I allowed the 2 action attack to be broken into 1 action attacks that deal half damage? It'd allow for Gather Power to do more in a single turn and for the character to sling three blasts as a full round, all dealing half but with the iterative penalties, or a 2 action blast and a 1 action blast, etc. Composite Blasts would be locked in at 2 actions.
Typing it out it seems a bit less straightforward than in my head.
Oh, rad! Thank you kindly.
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Just for shiggles, I'm wondering how much damage a 20th level Elemental Annihilator can pull with Omnicide.
Base Damage: 50d10+10
Elemental Overflow: 12 damage
Deadly Aim: 12 damage
Weapon Specialization: +2 damage
Assuming about a 34 Con (Including Elemental Overflow's +6): 12 damageTotal (with static damage): 50d10+48
Empowered: 75d10+72
Average Damage: 484
Burn Taken: ONE. (Zero if you use your Internal Buffer)Maximized AND Empowered: 822 damage
Burn: 3That's pretty cool, at least. Not that anyone will ever get high enough level to use it.
Also I imagine rolling 75d10 will be a real pain in the ass for anyone who doesn't use an electronic dice roller.
[dice=HAHA SUCK IT REAL DICE]75d10+72
Am I missing any damage boosters?
Hey Mark, any chance Omnikinesis is compatible with Explosion?
Can you imagine accepting a bunch of burn to throw everything you had into that...and missing?
"Hey, where'd that mountain go?"
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It really is the DBZ class.
*Charges for 5 minutes*
"HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"
*Enemy dodges, a mountain range disintegrates*
Except in Pathfinder, we have to translate those "minutes" into the five episodes it really took, then those episodes into five game sessions. :p
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Except in Pathfinder, we have to translate those "minutes" into the five episodes it really took, then those episodes into five game sessions. :p
No, no, no. I think I went into this rant during the Kineticist playtest, but the short version:
DBZ never really had multi-episode charging and powering up sequences, at least not on a regular basis. The only two that really stand out to me are Goku's original Super Saiyan transformation due to WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much filler (it's SEVERELY cut down in the DBZ Kai re-release, which trims much of the filler content...though it is sad that we lost the episode where Goku and Piccolo learning how to drive in the deal), and the final Spirit Bomb vs Kid Buu, and that was like 5 minutes IN UNIVERSE, so it took like an episode and a half of Vegeta getting pounded to full charge while he pulled energy from everyone in the universe simultaneously.
The SSJ transformation sequence is just such a source of memetic "Heh, DBZ takes episodes of grunting to do anything" because it was airing on Toonami and it was literally like a WEEK STRAIGHT you'd come home after school and see Goku do nothing but go "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAA" for 30 minutes. On top of the Namek arc ALREADY being way too long due to the aforementioned filler.
It's even better in the new movie(s) coming out. Battle of Gods for example had fights that were INCREDIBLY fast paced. I think the longest charge time in the whole movie was like ten seconds, and it was the big "this is ALL of my power, this better work" shot.
Unfortunately, no. Flurry of Devastation only works with the Devastating Infusion.
And it's not so much that I just like ranged attacks (I'm actually more of a melee fan), it's just that it saddens me that Kinetic Blade is hands down THE BEST option for damage dealing.
As-in, it doesn't make sense to me how it makes sense that you can full attack, in melee (or from 15 feet away with Whip), dealing full blast damage with each hit...but doing the same thing at range is somehow OP.
Hell, I'd be willing to pay an Infusion for it, sure. Limit to to 30 foot range so you can't trike from like 1200 feet away with Extended Range. i'm fine with that.
I just wanted to channel my inner Cole McGrath, or any Fire or Earth Benders, without sacrificing any of the cool utility options those characters had already had.
Unfortunately, you can't do that. If you're Earth you can go Annihilator (with zero utility) and if you're Fire or Lightning or Cold you're just s+** outta luck entirely without going melee.
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I'd say there will be a FAQ clarifying that, but until then, the word of the designer of the class is good enough for me.
And hey, 5 hours later, there IS a FAQ clarifying that.
Empower increases the damage dice by half again.
EDIT: Also, the FAQ on Empower Spell, found here would mean that an empowered Omnicide would deal 15d10+15 points of damage for each damage type listed.
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Empower increases the damage dice by half again.
EDIT: Also, the FAQ on Empower Spell, found here would mean that an empowered Omnicide would deal 15d10+15 points of damage for each damage type listed.
That's not how Empower works.
Empowered Omnicide deals 15d6+15 points of bludgeoning damage, 15d6+15 points of cold damage, 15d6+15 points of electricity damage, 15d6+15 points of fire damage, and 15d6+15 points of force damage.
For a total of of 75d6+75. Empowered spells don't change die types.