Kineticist damage?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Well yes that's possible if they're 15th level, but I was saying that in addition to Energy resistances being common that SR made things way sad.

Just way too many obstacles in the way of energy blasts so options like going pure fire, or grabbing only energy blasts as you progress through expanded elements. Spell Resistance should never have been something Kineticists doing damage should deal with.


No that's possible at 7. Depends on element choices.
Pure fire is the only build that has an energy composite, but also has a special infusion to bypass SR. All other elements can just use physical blasts.
All in all it's quite well thought.


Dekalinder wrote:

No that's possible at 7. Depends on element choices.

Pure fire is the only build that has an energy composite, but also has a special infusion to bypass SR. All other elements can just use physical blasts.
All in all it's quite well thought.

Level 1 Choice: Lightning Blast

Level 7 Choice: Earth or Wind Blast
Level 15 Choice: Earth or Wind Blast

If you are a "renowned Kineticist who sprays lightning storms from their fingertips!" you have to be 15th level to use Sandstorm Blast.

Still doesn't excuse the ridiculousness of requiring Spell Resistance checks though. It makes as much sense as giving the bestiary a 50% miss chance when targeted by Physical blasts.

Frankly speaking, keeping Spell Resistance on Energy Blasts was a straight up bad design choice.

Also the Infusion to bypass SR is pretty bad. 4 burn to do something that you, by all rights, should already be able to do. Also requiring level 14+.

Edit: The Munschkin in me knows that the most viable Kineticists make use of physical blasts or fight in melee, but that depresses the guy who just wants to throw fire, lightning, and ice at everything.


Main issue comes from the fact the blasts aren't supernatural, but spell-like. There was no reason to make them spell-like that I can find or see anywhere.


Yea, I will concede that Electric Blast is quite a poor one, with the only associated Composite being Charged Water or Thunderstorm. I really don't get why wild talents can't be used for extra simple blasts.

Anyway, the only composite energy blasts are Blue flame and Force. This means that starting level 7 unless you are pure Pyro (and thus have the Pure-Flame Infusion, so moot point) or pure Aether (just crap) you don't have to bother with SR anymore.


I remember there was almost a page straight of discussion during the playtest of the merits and demerits of the Energy Blasts being SLAs. I don't remember if Mark weighed in on that as his thread moved very very fast.

It's likely either
A. Something he truly believed was necessary for the class, since it was unchanged despite negative feedback.
B. Something he was required to keep in order to get the class published.


Azten wrote:
Main issue comes from the fact the blasts aren't supernatural, but spell-like. There was no reason to make them spell-like that I can find or see anywhere.

Not making them work in a Anti-magic field is one, being dispellable is the second. Applying superstitious bonus or dwarf resilience is one other. Ecc. ecc.

C) It's the only way it makes sense with in game-world classification and is also mostly irrelevant in actual play


Dekalinder wrote:

Yea, I will concede that Electric Blast is quite a poor one, with the only associated Composite being Charged Water or Thunderstorm. I really don't get why wild talents can't be used for extra simple blasts.

Anyway, the only composite energy blasts are Blue flame and Force. This means that starting level 7 unless you are pure Pyro (and thus have the Pure-Flame Infusion, so moot point) or pure Aether (just crap) you don't have to bother with SR anymore.

The point I'm trying to make isn't that the class itself is bad, just that certain concepts are punished arbitrarily.

If my goal is to make "A good Kineticist" then sure, there's an optimal way to do that and contribute to many situations.

If my goal is to "Fling the elements at my command" and I pick Fire, Air (Lightning), and Water (Cold) I am pretty screwed when we fight anything with spell resistance.

Energy gets to target touch AC and is punished accordingly by having lower damage numbers. Unfortunately it has to also deal with SR for arbitrary reasons.


Dekalinder wrote:
Azten wrote:
Main issue comes from the fact the blasts aren't supernatural, but spell-like. There was no reason to make them spell-like that I can find or see anywhere.

Not making them work in a Anti-magic field is one, being dispellable is the second. Applying superstitious bonus or dwarf resilience is one other. Ecc. ecc.

C) It's the only way it makes sense with in game-world classification and is also mostly irrelevant in actual play

Alternatives include:

Making them SLA, but just making them all wholesale not affected by SR.

Making them (SU)

Supernatural abilities wrote:

These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.

But allowing them to be dispelled.

There is very little justifiable balance reason to have energy blasts be affected by SR. Additionally SR does come up quite often in actual play, so I'd say the difference between SLA and SU is pretty glaring in that respect.


In that case you are pretty screwed full stop since you actually have no Composite. I do agree that it could have been better.


Dekalinder wrote:
In that case you are pretty screwed full stop since you actually have no Composite. I do agree that it could have been better.

Oh wow, you're right! That sucks even more!

Though that problem can simply be fixed with the release of more composite blasts.

The problem of SR on energy blasts can't be fixed except through errata though.


Someone was asking about utility? I've only really looked at aether.

They can fly, heal, turn invisible, sneak past blindsense and blindsight, animate colossal objects, move objects that weight hundreds or thousands of pounds, unlock doors at range, lift the whole party as they balance on an object, create cover, and can perform combat maneuvers at a range of 480ft.

Two of those things cost burn. One thing can cost the target of healing burn.

Edit: all in one build too

Scarab Sages

Insain Dragoon wrote:

I remember there was almost a page straight of discussion during the playtest of the merits and demerits of the Energy Blasts being SLAs. I don't remember if Mark weighed in on that as his thread moved very very fast.

It's likely either
A. Something he truly believed was necessary for the class, since it was unchanged despite negative feedback.
B. Something he was required to keep in order to get the class published.

There was a similar discussion that I started for the warlock's mystic bolts in the vigilante playtest. I got it changed to supernatural in round 2, but the damage was gutted in the process.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Dekalinder wrote:

When Gather Power gets "upgraded" by Supercharge loses that restriction.

Gather Power wrote:
Gathering power in this way allows the kineticist to reduce the total burn cost of a blast wild talent she uses in the same round by 1 point
Supercharge wrote:
At 11th level, when using gather power as a move action, a kineticist can reduce the total burn cost of a single wild talent by 2 points instead of 1. When using gather power for 1 full round, she can reduce the burn cost of a single wild talent by 3 points instead of 2.
Otherwise it would be called "Improved Gather Power" and would have just said "When using Gather power, Increase the burn reduction by an additional point".

I asked about this myself. Officials have confirmed that it's not true. The restriction remains.

Scarab Sages

Ravingdork wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:

When Gather Power gets "upgraded" by Supercharge loses that restriction.

Gather Power wrote:
Gathering power in this way allows the kineticist to reduce the total burn cost of a blast wild talent she uses in the same round by 1 point
Supercharge wrote:
At 11th level, when using gather power as a move action, a kineticist can reduce the total burn cost of a single wild talent by 2 points instead of 1. When using gather power for 1 full round, she can reduce the burn cost of a single wild talent by 3 points instead of 2.
Otherwise it would be called "Improved Gather Power" and would have just said "When using Gather power, Increase the burn reduction by an additional point".
I asked about this myself. Officials have confirmed that it's not true. The restriction remains.

I made a FAQ post on it here. If you feel it works, I invite you to FAQ it.


Ravingdork wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:

When Gather Power gets "upgraded" by Supercharge loses that restriction.

Gather Power wrote:
Gathering power in this way allows the kineticist to reduce the total burn cost of a blast wild talent she uses in the same round by 1 point
Supercharge wrote:
At 11th level, when using gather power as a move action, a kineticist can reduce the total burn cost of a single wild talent by 2 points instead of 1. When using gather power for 1 full round, she can reduce the burn cost of a single wild talent by 3 points instead of 2.
Otherwise it would be called "Improved Gather Power" and would have just said "When using Gather power, Increase the burn reduction by an additional point".
I asked about this myself. Officials have confirmed that it's not true. The restriction remains.

Can you link please?

Scarab Sages

Lead Designer chimed in


Rhedyn wrote:

Someone was asking about utility? I've only really looked at aether.

They can fly, heal, turn invisible, sneak past blindsense and blindsight, animate colossal objects, move objects that weight hundreds or thousands of pounds, unlock doors at range, lift the whole party as they balance on an object, create cover, and can perform combat maneuvers at a range of 480ft.

Two of those things cost burn. One thing can cost the target of healing burn.

Edit: all in one build too

The main issue with Aether is that once Composite Blasts become necessary to stay even competitive in damage, it becomes trash for everything BUT that little bit of utility it has.

Its Composite blasts are like "Add +1 damage per die to another blast" until 15th level.

Meanwhile, the others are "Change the damage dice to 2d6+2 per level".

So you end up with something like 6d6+6 (or +12 on a Physical Blast) vs 12d6+12. It's sad.


Rynjin wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

Someone was asking about utility? I've only really looked at aether.

They can fly, heal, turn invisible, sneak past blindsense and blindsight, animate colossal objects, move objects that weight hundreds or thousands of pounds, unlock doors at range, lift the whole party as they balance on an object, create cover, and can perform combat maneuvers at a range of 480ft.

Two of those things cost burn. One thing can cost the target of healing burn.

Edit: all in one build too

The main issue with Aether is that once Composite Blasts become necessary to stay even competitive in damage, it becomes trash for everything BUT that little bit of utility it has.

Its Composite blasts are like "Add +1 damage per die to another blast" until 15th level.

Meanwhile, the others are "Change the damage dice to 2d6+2 per level".

So you end up with something like 6d6+6 (or +12 on a Physical Blast) vs 12d6+12. It's sad.

Eh better than rogue damage. And more consistent.

You also add con, elemental overflow, and increase the damage by 50%. It's enough.

At level 9 I was doing 5d6+18 *1.5. The numbers only go up. If you really need to do more damage you can dive into melee with kinetic blade.

Scarab Sages

Rynjin wrote:
The main issue with Aether is that once Composite Blasts become necessary to stay even competitive in damage

Is that really true, though? By my calculations, an empowered simple blast isn't all that much weaker than a composite. Composites are not 2x more damaging than simples because the static bonuses are only added once, whereas they are multiplied as part of an empowered blast.

That does change, I admit, when you can afford to empower a composite (when you get composite specialization, or when you're willing to Burn for it).


an empowered physical blast, let's say at 12 would be:
(6d6+6+10)*1.5+8+1=~ 64.5damage
vs a non-empowered composite of:
12d6+12+10+8+1=~ 73

about 13% more damage for composites but a little less versatility due to 2 cost vs 1 for infusions, not that big of a deal, but when they really need to burst, a composite physical can crank up to:

(12d6+12+10)*1.5+8+1=~ 105 damage for 1 burn
and an aether can only do:
(6d6+6+6+10)*1.5+8+1=~ 73.5 damage for 1 burn

which is significantly lower for the same cost

aether also lacks 9th level infusion, so if you main aether you wont have those, and some of them are great no cost capstones


Cao Phen wrote:
Lead Designer chimed in

Sorry for being away, and thanks for the link. Pretty sad about the answer since honestly doesn't change much in terms of power (the only powerfull "exploit" was kinetic healer) but seems like one of those "no fun allowed" rules.

Honestly, I don't get why they are so scared about anything that is not damage. If Gather worked in reverse by only functioning on utility and not blast it would have been a thrash ability. So they are "only" allowing the most powerfull option.
As I said, it really doesn't change much in terms of raw power, but the class definetly become less "fun".


Dekalinder wrote:
Cao Phen wrote:
Lead Designer chimed in

Sorry for being away, and thanks for the link. Pretty sad about the answer since honestly doesn't change much in terms of power (the only powerfull "exploit" was kinetic healer) but seems like one of those "no fun allowed" rules.

Honestly, I don't get why they are so scared about anything that is not damage. If Gather worked in reverse by only functioning on utility and not blast it would have been a thrash ability. So they are "only" allowing the most powerfull option.
As I said, it really doesn't change much in terms of raw power, but the class definetly become less "fun".

While I wish you could reduce the burn cost for Kinetic Healer,.. I get why Paizo doesn't want to do that. Unlimited heals everyday at a fairly good, and scaling, rate would be exceedingly powerful. For example a hydro kineticist at 3rd level with Water Blast and an 18 Con could heal 2d6+6, compared to the 2d8+3 CMW from a 3rd level divine caster. Granted, when taking averages KH only comes on top by 1; however, if unlimited via GP versus daily allotment of spells.


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Faelyn wrote:
Dekalinder wrote:
Cao Phen wrote:
Lead Designer chimed in

Sorry for being away, and thanks for the link. Pretty sad about the answer since honestly doesn't change much in terms of power (the only powerfull "exploit" was kinetic healer) but seems like one of those "no fun allowed" rules.

Honestly, I don't get why they are so scared about anything that is not damage. If Gather worked in reverse by only functioning on utility and not blast it would have been a thrash ability. So they are "only" allowing the most powerfull option.
As I said, it really doesn't change much in terms of raw power, but the class definetly become less "fun".
While I wish you could reduce the burn cost for Kinetic Healer,.. I get why Paizo doesn't want to do that. Unlimited heals everyday at a fairly good, and scaling, rate would be exceedingly powerful. For example a hydro kineticist at 3rd level with Water Blast and an 18 Con could heal 2d6+6, compared to the 2d8+3 CMW from a 3rd level divine caster. Granted, when taking averages KH only comes on top by 1; however, if unlimited via GP versus daily allotment of spells.

I have never seen healing out of combat as a bottle neck to adventuring. It has always been limited daily resources or imposed by the setting (obstacle in the way, distance to travel) those are the things that force rest. Wands of Cure Light are available by the end of a character's second session and something really weird is happening if you are burning through those wands faster than resources are accumulating.


Torbyne wrote:
Wands of Cure Light are available by the end of a character's second session and something really weird is happening if you are burning through those wands faster than resources are accumulating.

That's a helluva assumption. Not everyone's games (or any game I've ever played in) is marinating in available wands. :P

While true that Healers mostly work out of combat, I've several times already saved the day with a Kinetic Heal on our Paladin so he could keep using Full Round Attacks, not to mention that so far all the players love the healing I provide as well as the "buffer" between KO and Dead.


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Sphynx wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Wands of Cure Light are available by the end of a character's second session and something really weird is happening if you are burning through those wands faster than resources are accumulating.

That's a helluva assumption. Not everyone's games (or any game I've ever played in) is marinating in available wands. :P

While true that Healers mostly work out of combat, I've several times already saved the day with a Kinetic Heal on our Paladin so he could keep using Full Round Attacks, not to mention that so far all the players love the healing I provide as well as the "buffer" between KO and Dead.

Its an assumption but is it that much of a stretch? its a 750 GP investment in home games where the group is likely to jointly fund the purchase or a 2 PP purchase in PFS. The default assumption of the game is that "basic" magic items are available in almost every settlement of, what 5,000 or more? you kind of need to go out of your way to prevent access to them.


Since kinetic healing does blast damage healing, I let you "blast" through a utility. So you can do empower composite blast and reduce it with supercharge, but you couldn't remove the healing burn cost, which I find more resource limiting than just burning wands.


This is where the original Warlock bypassed this issue completely by making the damage untyped. The larger issue is for most other classes there is an option to resistance or damage resistance. There are feats you can take or items you can buy to deal with the issue. Casters even if they are specialists can take other spells so they have something to fall back on. Not so for the poor kineticist who selects the wrong element/blast or is facing a DM who plays foes intelligently.


to be fair, -most- elements also have a physical blast or composite, allowing to bypass SR and resistances.

and since for physical blasts the damage is all in a big hit, DR doesn't mitigrate it as much as it would a normal weapon.

i mean, when with a physical composite at lvl7 you could do 8d6+20 (~48 damage) for 1 burn or 6d6+24 (~45 damage) with an empowered physical blast for 0 burn, the 5-10 dr, won't impact as much as say 2-3 attacks at 2d6+18 from the greatsword swing

Scarab Sages

And hell, as a geo, you have the option to choose which damage type and which metal on the fly. You can bypass any DR except alignment if you build for it.


Imbicatus wrote:
And hell, as a geo, you have the option to choose which damage type and which metal on the fly. You can bypass any DR except alignment if you build for it.

i used to like that infusion, then i realised that you need 4 burn just for this (by the time you can get it 1 burn if you also gather) just to do ~10damage more.

to add to that, that tier has excellent choices to pick, like impale, magnetic, mobile, flurry

by the time you can actually afford to do and aquire that blast with extra infusion feat (11) alignment DR will be more prevalent, and thus i found myself not even picking it up


That is the main point, most of the options to deal with it are linked to single element or require you to be high level. They all seem good in theory but once you look closer you run into issues. As any kind of caster do I have to wait 6 levels to come up with a counter for DR? If I chose to play a Air or Water spec who ends up fighting a pack of werewolves should I just go on the corner and root my team to carry me for 3-4 levels because I wanted a lightning throwing guy because I thought it was cool? It would not be such a deal except the class has one thing it does and there is not enough room to build to try to cover the weaknesses. I hope in time it will get better and I think giving a infusion at 7th even if you branch out and letting extra infusion only be -1 level would be a good start.


Aether with the correct gear can deal with metal-based dr at level 1, with no burn.

Scarab Sages

Vrog Skyreaver wrote:
Aether with the correct gear can deal with metal-based dr at level 1, with no burn.

At first level, yes, but it scales even slower than Aether's normal blast.


All energy blast ignore DR.

Aether is amazing. I've actually played it. I've built it out to 20. It takes planning to get what you want but it is doable. No foe is competely immune to your full arsenal.


Rhedyn wrote:
All energy blast ignore DR.

Of course they have the double whammy of Energy resistance AND Spell Resistance to deal with instead.


Rynjin wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
All energy blast ignore DR.
Of course they have the double whammy of Energy resistance AND Spell Resistance to deal with instead.

someone was worried about low level DR for a lighting thrower.

IMO: physical blast all the way!


Rhedyn wrote:

All energy blast ignore DR.

Aether is amazing. I've actually played it. I've built it out to 20. It takes planning to get what you want but it is doable. No foe is competely immune to your full arsenal.

Yes aether is very good it is a shame the rest of the builds can't be.


Hargert wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

All energy blast ignore DR.

Aether is amazing. I've actually played it. I've built it out to 20. It takes planning to get what you want but it is doable. No foe is competely immune to your full arsenal.

Yes aether is very good it is a shame the rest of the builds can't be.

I haven't looked to closely into the elements but I suspect that air > water > earth can do pretty good. As in start air then get water then get earth. Use extra wild talent to get healing at 7. Air flight is super good. There may be other things too

Dark Archive

Aether is mostly amazing for its utility powers. Once you get foe throw, it's potentially all over for a lot of enemies. Cliff nearby? Save or die. Window? Save or die. Ceiling? Save or take almost double damage and fall prone. None of those apply? Drop a house on somebody. Or a statue. Or anything else you can think of. Get creative. And when you get to level 12, and pick up Suffocate, you really have a save or die effect. A good one.


Rhedyn wrote:

All energy blast ignore DR.

Aether is amazing. I've actually played it. I've built it out to 20. It takes planning to get what you want but it is doable. No foe is competely immune to your full arsenal.

Any chance to see your level 20 build? I'm curious to compare it to my own since I'm not really one for optimization. :/ I personally had to use 3 feats for Extra Wild Talent just to get everything I 'needed'.


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after playtesting 2 kineticists my opinion is:

it's a semi-good class. As in t4, maybe barely t3 for some builds.

with a well planned build you don't feel useless, and you can offer some things to the party.

there ARE some problems with it's design though:

a)scaling
the scaling is out of whack. instead of having a steady power progression, you get crazy spikes and lags. Most ridiculous is the lvl17 boost, when suddenly you more than double your damage. When at such a high level you have a quite literally a 2+x damage multiplier it indicates that something is off.

Due to (a), the 3rd element come way too late. it should have been something like 1-6-13, or 1-7-14 at the most, but actually having to wait till lvl17 is similar to saying that "once every blue moon you get this"

b)element balance and offensive capabilities
now, they balanced the elements (imo) in a scale of utility/offense.
This sounds nice on paper:
you want more utility? double pick a more utility based element.
you want more offense? double pick a more offensive element.
you want a more balanced build? expand your element at 7.

option (3) though should have been the offensive BENCHMARK. Picking p.e. earth/aether should have given you competitive damage
earth/earth should have given you amazing damage
aether/aether should have given you lower damage

instead we are 1 scale down. you NEED to pick 2 offensive elements for competitive damage and etc.

All this could have been fixed if the 3rd element came into play at like lvl13 instead of lvl17. Giving you, for "late" game, some utility and good damage, or good utility and some damage, and etc.

but since (a) makes it come sooooo late, it is a null point.

epilogue:
that said, it's not like you can't make a competant build out of kineticist. some combinations are obviously much superior to others, and usually, you do the thing you build for quite alright (definition of t4). for a utility build, you have some unique things to do, and while your damage is even lower than a rogue, and your powers don't really compare to a full 2/3 caster, you still can manage and do "stuff" that are worthwhile. You always have something to do every round/encounter/social/stealth/spy/etc, giving you enough flexibility to warrant the lower damage (barely t3, if damage was a bit higher then it would have been a solid t3)

all that change at 17, when suddenly, the inclusion of the 3rd element balances out your flaws, making you a solid t3.

p.s.
just for the lulz (since it's really a hail mary pass) we did a quick lvl17 scenario with a kineticist, and his ultimate burst, costing him like 12burn or something was just hilarious. probably the highest nova potential of anything i've seen so far
(double empowered fragmentation aetheric metal (7burn)+quickened double empowered fragmentation aetheric metal (10burn), for a combined cost, after gathering underground for 1 round of 12 burn. That did 4 attacks, each dealing 27d6+3d8+90, and aoeing for half that amount. or ~ 4*200 single target + 400 aoe)


Sphynx wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

All energy blast ignore DR.

Aether is amazing. I've actually played it. I've built it out to 20. It takes planning to get what you want but it is doable. No foe is competely immune to your full arsenal.

Any chance to see your level 20 build? I'm curious to compare it to my own since I'm not really one for optimization. :/ I personally had to use 3 feats for Extra Wild Talent just to get everything I 'needed'.

Dual Talented Human ||7 18 19 10 8 8||perception, stealth, sleight of hand, disable device||indomitable will, trap finder

1 weapon finesse, basic telekinesis, telekinetic blast, burn, gather power, extended range
2 elemental defenses(force ward), telekinetic finesse
3 combat reflexes, elemental overflow, kinetic blade
4 telekinetic haul
5 quick draw, infusion specialization, metakinesis, bowling infusion
6 internal buffer, telekinetic invisibility
7 extra wild talent (kinetic healer), expanded element(self telekinesis, aetheric boost, force blast), mobile blast
8 telekinetic maneuvers
9 extra wild talent (kinetic cover), extreme range
10 greater self telekinesis
11 extra wild talent (furry of blast),supercharge, wall
12 aether puppet
13 extra wild talent (kinetic whip), disintegrating infusion
14 kinetic form
15 extra wild talent (force ward), expanded element(ride the blast)
16 composite specialization, telekinetic globe
17 extra wild talent (touch sight), many throw
18 reverse shift
19 extra wild talent (spell deflection), metakinetic master, foe throw
20 omnikinetic, reactive touch sight


Rhedyn wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

All energy blast ignore DR.

Aether is amazing. I've actually played it. I've built it out to 20. It takes planning to get what you want but it is doable. No foe is competely immune to your full arsenal.

Any chance to see your level 20 build? I'm curious to compare it to my own since I'm not really one for optimization. :/ I personally had to use 3 feats for Extra Wild Talent just to get everything I 'needed'.

Dual Talented Human ||7 18 19 10 8 8||perception, stealth, sleight of hand, disable device||indomitable will, trap finder

1 weapon finesse, basic telekinesis, telekinetic blast, burn, gather power, extended range
2 elemental defenses(force ward), telekinetic finesse
3 combat reflexes, elemental overflow, kinetic blade
4 telekinetic haul
5 quick draw, infusion specialization, metakinesis, bowling infusion
6 internal buffer, telekinetic invisibility
7 extra wild talent (kinetic healer), expanded element(self telekinesis, aetheric boost, force blast), mobile blast
8 telekinetic maneuvers
9 extra wild talent (kinetic cover), extreme range
10 greater self telekinesis
11 extra wild talent (furry of blast),supercharge, wall
12 aether puppet
13 extra wild talent (kinetic whip), disintegrating infusion
14 kinetic form
15 extra wild talent (force ward), expanded element(ride the blast)
16 composite specialization, telekinetic globe
17 extra wild talent (touch sight), many throw
18 reverse shift
19 extra wild talent (spell deflection), metakinetic master, foe throw
20 omnikinetic, reactive touch sight

At lvl 7 you have put 1more infusion than you have I think (expaned for aether gives you one, either self telek OR mobile blast)


You still get your normal infusion for of levels.


Rhedyn wrote:
You still get your normal infusion for of levels.

lv 7 doesn't give a normal infusion. You only gain something if you pick your same element.


Rhedyn wrote:
Sphynx wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

All energy blast ignore DR.

Aether is amazing. I've actually played it. I've built it out to 20. It takes planning to get what you want but it is doable. No foe is competely immune to your full arsenal.

Any chance to see your level 20 build? I'm curious to compare it to my own since I'm not really one for optimization. :/ I personally had to use 3 feats for Extra Wild Talent just to get everything I 'needed'.

Dual Talented Human ||7 18 19 10 8 8||perception, stealth, sleight of hand, disable device||indomitable will, trap finder

1 weapon finesse, basic telekinesis, telekinetic blast, burn, gather power, extended range
2 elemental defenses(force ward), telekinetic finesse
3 combat reflexes, elemental overflow, kinetic blade
4 telekinetic haul
5 quick draw, infusion specialization, metakinesis, bowling infusion
6 internal buffer, telekinetic invisibility
7 extra wild talent (kinetic healer), expanded element(self telekinesis, aetheric boost, force blast), mobile blast
8 telekinetic maneuvers
9 extra wild talent (kinetic cover), extreme range
10 greater self telekinesis
11 extra wild talent (furry of blast),supercharge, wall
12 aether puppet
13 extra wild talent (kinetic whip), disintegrating infusion
14 kinetic form
15 extra wild talent (force ward), expanded element(ride the blast)
16 composite specialization, telekinetic globe
17 extra wild talent (touch sight), many throw
18 reverse shift
19 extra wild talent (spell deflection), metakinetic master, foe throw
20 omnikinetic, reactive touch sight

Nice, very very different than my own. I focused entirely on ranged. With going Whip, why not the Vital Strike feats?

Also, although I realize you're not playing the lower levels, this is more an FYI for anyone looking at it as a template, the Kinetic Blade and Kinetic Healer should be reversed as should the Kinetic Whip and Mobile Blast. You don't ever want to use the Blade, and want to use the Whip as early as possible, so picking both up at that level is just smartness in my opinion... :)

I'd also be interested in seeing if you find any use for some of those talents, as many are ones I usually advise against, rather than spend feats on, allowing for what I find to be the more effective feats (or at least survivability feats).


Vital strike can't be used with kinetic blade or kinetic whip.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
You still get your normal infusion for of levels.
lv 7 doesn't give a normal infusion. You only gain something if you pick your same element.

True that, didn't notice there were 3 instead of 2 talents listed at that level. I'd postpone the Telekinetic Maneuvers and take Self-TK at 8th level so you can pick up the infusion (whip) at 7th. I'd lose the Aether Puppet entirely and pick up TK-Maneuvers at 12th. Either that or pick it up at 20th level.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
You still get your normal infusion for of levels.
lv 7 doesn't give a normal infusion. You only gain something if you pick your same element.

hoho

That is interesting. Here I thought you got one every of level, but it should 7 and 15

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