Clerics use their Divine Focus instead of normal material components, for spells with that listed.
Oracles specifically do not require a Divine Focus.
My question is:
Do oracles get to cast these spells without needing any material component at all, or do they need to use the original material components, like wizards/sorcerors do?
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Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.
If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).
Yes, I am aware of that rule.
My question still remains: oracles do not need a divine focus, so do they default to no material components at all, or revert to needing them?
Bear in mind that the rule quoted above was written before oracles were invented.
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- "the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component"
- "the divine version has a divine focus component"
- "An oracle casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell lists"
- "Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells"
I think that all goes together quite logically.
If it has F/DF or M/DF you would use the F or M, since a DF is not used for oracles. Oracles are not given a free pass to ignore casting requirements.
Yeah they do.
The Divine version of spells DO NOT HAVE focus or material components*. They have divine focus components.
The Oracle casts Divine spells.
However, the Oracle doesn't need a divine focus when casting spells with divine focus components.
So the Oracle doesn't need the divine focus to cast their Divine spells. They would also not need focus or material components because Divine spells DON'T HAVE those components*.
*specifically F/DF and M/DF spells, spells that list the M and DF components separately (like Raise Dead) still have material components.
That's 2 votes for not needing the components and one for.
Any more? (Personally, I don't mind which way it works, and my GM wasn't sure either so I'm hoping for some sort of consensus here.)
5.
7 FOr Oracles can ignore.
For the record, a Deaf Oracle is the best class for casting Secret Signs, because they take away m/DF, F/DF, and then V components, usually leaving only S.
That's an interesting point, Conall, but only for those spells which normally use a DF.
Anyway, the consensus is pretty one-sided. Thanks, everyone.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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That's 2 votes for not needing the components and one for.
I read your OP and I read the replies.
I'm not entirely sure we are communicating.
Let's look at a spell:
Resurrection
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 10,000 gp), DF
An Oracle will cast it like this:
Resurrection
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 10,000 gp)
It sounds like you are suggesting like this:
Resurrection
Components V, S
Oracles can cheat with M/DF and F/DF. They cannot cheat with M, DF or F, DF.
That's 2 votes for not needing the components and one for.I read your OP and I read the replies.
I'm not entirely sure we are communicating.
Let's look at a spell:
Resurrection
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 10,000 gp), DFAn Oracle will cast it like this:
Resurrection
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 10,000 gp)It sounds like you are suggesting like this:
Resurrection
Components V, S
As HyperMissingno says, that spell is not one of the ones which is in question: the material component for Resurrection is compulsory for all casters.
Spells with a slash between the M and the DF are the only ones where the question applies.
What about spells that are not normally divine but an oracle can cast? For example colour spray which lists M but no DF. Is is converted to a divine spell for the oracle and no M needed? I would rule that as the case and that only spells requiring components not normally found in a spell pouch would use the M but am wondering what the consensus would be.
A spell with "M" but no "/DF" requires a material component no matter who casts it--wizard, cleric, oracle, whatever. (Eschew Materials/blood money/etc. aside, of course.) Raise dead is a classic example, as even a cleric needs both a material component and a divine focus--there's no either/or situation there.
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Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.
If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).
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So this is how it works:
Components V, S, M (a piece of brass)
In this case the Oracle would need the Verbal, Somatic and Material components.
Components V, S, F (a lantern)
In this case the Oracle would need the Verbal, Somatic and Focus components.
Components V, S, DF
In this case an Oracle would need the Verbal and Somatic components, but not the Divine-Focus component (as oracles don't need them).
Components V, S, M/DF (a small pulley)
The arcane version of the spell has Verbal, Somatic and Material components, and the divine version of the spell has Verbal, Somatic and Divine-Focus components. Since the Oracle is a divine caster, they will use the divine version.
In this case the Oracle will need the Verbal and Somatic components, but not the Material component (because they're not an arcane caster) and not the Divine-Focus component (as Oracles don't need them).
Components V, S, F/DF (a musical instrument)
The arcane version of the spell has Verbal, Somatic and Focus components, and the divine version of the spell has Verbal, Somatic and Divine-Focus components. Since the Oracle is a divine caster, they will use the divine version.
In this case the Oracle will need the Verbal and Somatic components, but not the Focus component (because they're not an arcane caster) and not the Divine-Focus component (as Oracles don't need them).
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What about spells that are not normally divine but an oracle can cast? For example colour spray which lists M but no DF. Is is converted to a divine spell for the oracle and no M needed? I would rule that as the case and that only spells requiring components not normally found in a spell pouch would use the M but am wondering what the consensus would be.
The spell being cast isn't inherently arcane or divine, what changes it is the caster. If cast by a Cleric or an Oracle it becomes a divine spell, if cast by a Sorcerer or Wizard it becomes an arcane spell (and if cast by someone who has both arcane and divine caster levels it's determined by which class' spell-slots are used).
What this means is that if you have access to a spell not normally on your spell list it becomes a divine spell. In the case of Color Spray ...
Components V, S, M (red, yellow, and blue powder or colored sand)
In this case there is no mention of a Divine Focus component, so an Oracle would have to provide the Verbal, Somatic and Material components.
Probably whoever filled it out just copied the sorcerer's kit and added candles, not remembering that oracles don't get Eschew Materials as a class feature like their arcane counterparts.
I think the Alchemist's kit has the same problem. I like the kits, but some need a little house-ruling to work for their intended class.
Probably whoever filled it out just copied the sorcerer's kit and added candles, not remembering that oracles don't get Eschew Materials as a class feature like their arcane counterparts.
I don't think they made a mistake by not including a spellcomponentpouch. A cleric does have a pouch, sure, but the versitality of a cleric (prepared caster) makes it so he can prepare spells that need components, but can also prepare spells that don't. For an oracle, the spell availability is really limited, so you choose spells which you use frequently and are usefull. For instance, my Oracle (Rage Prophet), only has spells without material compontents (well, some have M/DF, but we all agreed that as Oracle can ignore those). If by any chance an Oracle would choose a spell WITH compontents (i.e. color spray), than the oracle would have no need for an entire spell component pouch with all material and focusses for spellcasting. He would only need the material for that one spell. And let's be honest, if an oracle would select such a spell, than I think he can spare the 5gp to purchase a spellpouch, dump the materials and completely fill it with the material needed for that one spell.
Nah, I'm gonna stick with the "they done goofed" theory.