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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a 1st level Witch (with Slumber) and a 1st level Fighter encountered a Frost Giant (toe-to-toe), who would win?
Prior to the Slumber Hex, going back right to the beginnings of D&D, the answer would be the Frost Giant - hands down, no contest.
Now, it's 50/50. Pretty much - allowing for the initiative roll (which the Witch ought to win) and the coup-de-gras (which the Giant ought to fail, especially if the fighter has a Greataxe).
I know that Slumber Hex has been debated before, but it does seem like quite a big deal to me. It certainly spells the demise of the solitary monster encounter - unless it's immune to sleep.
It also means there's a massive difference between a party with a Witch with Slumber and one without. Sure, the Witch might on balance not be out of balance (not sure about that, but whatever), however having one on board makes quite a bit difference to the way that a number of encounters are going to play out.
Richard
The slumber dc is 10+ int mod at 1st level. It's 15 at best, if you rolled a 18. Maybe 14. The Frost giant sure has a hard time, but it's more 40/60.
It changes the game in the sense that it gives you a pseudo SoD at low levels, but beyond that it doesn't.
Evil Eye is much more annoying than the slumber hex to me. You get one shot at the slumber hex per creature per day. That is it. Evil Eye combined with cackle stacks several debuffs and the cackle means that even if you make your save you are screwed. You just die slower.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a 1st level Witch (with Slumber) and a 1st level Fighter encountered a Frost Giant (toe-to-toe), who would win?
Prior to the Slumber Hex, going back right to the beginnings of D&D, the answer would be the Frost Giant - hands down, no contest.
Now, it's 50/50. Pretty much - allowing for the initiative roll (which the Witch ought to win) and the coup-de-gras (which the Giant ought to fail, especially if the fighter has a Greataxe).
I know that Slumber Hex has been debated before, but it does seem like quite a big deal to me. It certainly spells the demise of the solitary monster encounter - unless it's immune to sleep.
It also means there's a massive difference between a party with a Witch with Slumber and one without. Sure, the Witch might on balance not be out of balance (not sure about that, but whatever), however having one on board makes quite a bit difference to the way that a number of encounters are going to play out.
Richard
Considering that the Giant, if it fails it save is going to asleep for 1 round, unless the fighter is adjacent to it or within 5', a coup de gras isn't possible, and the now angry giant is going to stand up and kill the two of them.
Having played a witch, I found the slumber hex pretty effective but made most encounters boring. Eventually the GM let me roll the victims' saving throws so I got to roll a die at all.
It's the biggest reason to avoid playing a witch: the player gets bored with almost always doing the same thing in every encounter. Hex got boring too.
But game-breaking? No.
Considering that the Giant, if it fails it save is going to asleep for 1 round, unless the fighter is adjacent to it or within 5', a coup de gras isn't possible, and the now angry giant is going to stand up and kill the two of them.
Cackle. Readied action.
BTW, dreamspeaker Elf Witch with 20 Int and Ability Focus and the Mediator social trait has a save dC of 10+0(½ level)+5(int)+2(feat)+1(trait) +1(racial)=19, at level 1.
Vod - Agreed, but that's why I said toe-to-toe.
Gilarisu - Agreed, but note I didn't say "game-breaking", I said "game-changing".
Cheers
Richard
True.
To re-phrase my opinion, the only game-change is the boredom factor for the player of the witch. Otherwise it merely acts like a wizard/sorc with lots of sleep spells. Sleep or Deep Slumber.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What about the more likely comparison, a 1st level slumber witch up against a CR3 or 4 monster? It is definitely game-changing if the GM and witch player let it become so.
In home games, I disallow the slumber hex completely; it just means I have to design encounters around it every time, and removes a lot of cool encounters from my arsenal.
In PFS, it's legal, but I talk to the player before the game to make sure they understand the potential fun-stealer it can be. The witch player has the option to not use it, which means if they get bored they can change things up; the witch's companions don't have that option. I have asked a player to stop using the hex before, when playing a scenario that just was not designed to deal with this kind of power AND when the rest of the party was bored not being able to do anything. (I've done the same thing with large-animal-companion-archer-ranger-of-high-initiative as well... Everyone should get a turn to play.)
If the rest of the party likes sitting and watching the witch solo-slumber everything, I let it go, but I've been tempted to just hand out the Chronicles and end early.
Probably my least-favorite PC ability in Pathfinder.
Neither Sleep nor Deep Slumber would affect the Frost Giant.
Richard
And how often do low/1st level characters face a frost giant? The effect of slumber in most encounters is similar to those spells or similar to 'command'. It's a will save or the giant has a problem. By the time characters face frost giants they will have access to better effects like confusion anyway.
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I picked the Frost Giant as an example of something which *should* be able to decimate two 1st level characters but now doesn't.
Or rather, it does if the party doesn't have access to the slumber hex, otherwise it's 50/50.
And a low-level party could come across a Frost Giant in an encounter where they're not supposed to be able to kill it. Only now, they can.
More importantly, though, the game changes because the game-world changes. It is no longer realistic to have lone Frost Giants, or Hill Giants, or whatever, wandering the countryside. Where before a couple of Hill Giants could have attacked a lowly farm for sheep or what have you, now they have to think that it only takes a 1st level Witch to be there and they're screwed. Previously they would have rampaged chaotically through barns, pens and farmhouses. Now they make sure they stay well within reach of each other in case one of them gets slumbered.
Richard
Are you possibly being a little over the top with that last bit? One ability that one class has is going to keep giants from sacking villages?
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I picked the Frost Giant as an example of something which *should* be able to decimate two 1st level characters but now doesn't.
Or rather, it does if the party doesn't have access to the slumber hex, otherwise it's 50/50.
And a low-level party could come across a Frost Giant in an encounter where they're not supposed to be able to kill it. Only now, they can.
More importantly, though, the game changes because the game-world changes. It is no longer realistic to have lone Frost Giants, or Hill Giants, or whatever, wandering the countryside. Where before a couple of Hill Giants could have attacked a lowly farm for sheep or what have you, now they have to think that it only takes a 1st level Witch to be there and they're screwed. Previously they would have rampaged chaotically through barns, pens and farmhouses. Now they make sure they stay well within reach of each other in case one of them gets slumbered.
Richard
Most 1st level ____ are still not going to take their chances against a giant. If he does make the save he will kill the witch in one hit barring a nat 1. The fighter would be next.
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You and I run different worlds mate ;) I would put it at every group of villages semi close to eachother have a wisewoman/healer type, with more than half of them being adepts and the remaining being a mix between witch, oracle, and cleric. So in my world maybe one out of twenty villages has a witch.
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Wraithstrike: It's about risk and reward. If there were four of you, 3 Witches plus one Fighter, you've probably got a 80%+ chance of success. If you win, you get 6400 xp (80% of the way to level 2) and over 1000gp each.
Ok, that sounds a bit metagamey, but life, real and role-play, is all about risk vs reward, and in my opinion it's the risk/reward balance that's wrong.
Fraust: In my world it would depend what the prevalent danger was. Villages in areas that tended to be attacked by giants or any other big nasties that can be slumbered would have a much greater proportion of witches than places where, say, the greater danger can from diseases, undead or voracious plant-life.
Richard
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Or the giant hurls a rock from almost half a kilometer away and the witch goes smush... or the giant charges from 80 ft, which is out of hex range.
Richard...in regards to your response to Wraithstrike, would you actually award full experience for the 3w1f party? I wouldn't myself. There is danger there, though not very much, so it wouldn't be the same as say...a pit with a zombie in it where the zombie has no chance of getting to you, so you shoot it with disrupt undead until it dies...
As to your response to me...that's a perfectly valid point, though I have to wonder how common villagers are aware of the specifics of a class ability, coupled with what they have to offer to attract a greater amount of witches over time, as well as how long they've been having issues with giants to see how much progress they can make on their plan to bring more witches to the area. Then you have to counter that against the likelyhood that other threats might be showing up that the witch can't handle, and if those are more likely or less likely than the giant threat.
Many villages will have a witch, true, but very few of those witches are going to have PC stats, meaning that the DC is going to be low enough that many giants still won't care that much. The danger with the hex, and it's major balancing point, is that if it fails, the witch has made a very powerful enemy, and even if it succeeds, the giant is asleep for only one round or until it takes damage, and very few 1st level fighters are going to be able to outright kill a giant in one hit, even a coup de grace. If the fighter can, than the entire party is probably optimized to the teeth, and solo encounters of any kind are already a very bad choice for the DM of that group.
The key to dealing with a super optimized PC is to throw a mixture of encounters at the party, so that combat is not expected, and can even be less than helpful long term, even if the immediate encounter is now technically winnable as a combat. Just because the party could realistically kill that giant doesn't mean that it's always in their favor to do so; XP and gp are not the only ways to measure success. In a strictly combat campaign, or organized play, it's a bit harder to counter the immediate rewards, but even then, unless you're super optimized for it (which leaves weaknesses elsewhere), the DC is manageable for most creatures in the appropriate CR range.
Solo encounters have never been a very good tactic for D&D or PF due to action economy, at least from a combat perspective, so it's not like it changing an integral part of the system; it just gives one more reason to be extra careful while planning them. Perhaps the area with lots of witches with the slumber hex also have giants with boosted will saves as the ones with higher will saves survive to breed and pass on their mental toughness.
In the end, it changes the game precisely how much you let it change the game. In a home campaign, there is no reason for it to be that big of a game breaker; optimized parties of all stripes will tear through solo encounters of all kinds, and nonoptimized witches don't present any greater of a challenge than any other character in the long run. I could see it being a bigger problem in organized play, but I never ran into many solo encounters in the PFS modules I played in, and facing groups is the one thing that a hex witch never does well in by themselves, so it's still not as big of a game changer as some make it out to be.
Many villages will have a witch, true, but very few of those witches are going to have PC stats, meaning that the DC is going to be low enough that many giants still won't care that much. The danger with the hex, and it's major balancing point, is that if it fails, the witch has made a very powerful enemy, and even if it succeeds, the giant is asleep for only one round or until it takes damage, and very few 1st level fighters are going to be able to outright kill a giant in one hit, even a coup de grace. If the fighter can, than the entire party is probably optimized to the teeth, and solo encounters of any kind are already a very bad choice for the DM of that group.
The solution for the village is to have multiple witches and to give scythes to all the strong people in the village. Even if the slumber DC is only 11 or 12, the frost giant still has about a 1/4 chance of failing. The witches wait until a scythe-wielder is 10' from the giant then use the slumber hex on the giant. The scythe-wielder then does a coup de grace and the frost giant has to make a DC 40 or so Fort save or die. Maybe a few scythe-wielders die before the giant is taken down, but all things considered the 1st level villages defeated the giant with little cost.
Really, villages that don't try to attract a coven of witches to stay in the area are just asking for trouble.
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A quick search will show several long threads about how the slumber hex is negatively affecting peoples campaigns.
It causes people to have less enjoyment at the table then they would if it was not part of the game. It is a problem. Generally the only viable solutions are to house rule addition limits on the hex, or for the GM to only use undead, elves, dragons and constructs and eliminate encounters with other creatures types and most NPC's.
As a GM, I find action-denial to really suck the fun out of the game. I ask my players to use it very sparingly, and I very rarely use it myself.
While I would not say that the Slumber hex is "uniquely" game changing, I would say that it ranks among the most game damaging abilities a player could use in the game.
EDIT: Note that the real problem with this (and hold person, etc.) is that it sets up an easy auto-kill coup de grace. I think if these lower level abilities caused stun, it would not be nearly as game breaking, while still being a very powerful option.
While I would not say that the Slumber hex is "uniquely" game changing, I would say that it ranks among the most game damaging abilities a player could use in the game.
That I can agree with; it definitely has ramifications that need to be considered carefully before use, but it's far from unique in that aspect.
Many villages will have a witch, true, but very few of those witches are going to have PC stats, meaning that the DC is going to be low enough that many giants still won't care that much. The danger with the hex, and it's major balancing point, is that if it fails, the witch has made a very powerful enemy, and even if it succeeds, the giant is asleep for only one round or until it takes damage, and very few 1st level fighters are going to be able to outright kill a giant in one hit, even a coup de grace. If the fighter can, than the entire party is probably optimized to the teeth, and solo encounters of any kind are already a very bad choice for the DM of that group.The solution for the village is to have multiple witches and to give scythes to all the strong people in the village. Even if the slumber DC is only 11 or 12, the frost giant still has about a 1/4 chance of failing. The witches wait until a scythe-wielder is 10' from the giant then use the slumber hex on the giant. The scythe-wielder then does a coup de grace and the frost giant has to make a DC 40 or so Fort save or die. Maybe a few scythe-wielders die before the giant is taken down, but all things considered the 1st level villages defeated the giant with little cost.
Really, villages that don't try to attract a coven of witches to stay in the area are just asking for trouble.
At which point, the DM puts other monster in the area that the coven of witches can't counter. As well as social bias against witches, not something that takes much searching of real life history to find examples of, and the propensity of most warriors, and their village, to value their life a bit more than what you suggest. That little cost may suddenly get very big the next time a giant comes a calling, or pretty much anything else, and they have 3 less warriors to help defend the village.
It's not that your solution is bad, it's just that your solution, and indeed every possible solution, creates it's own challenges so that the tactic would work once, maybe even twice, before changing circumstances rendered it ineffective, and possibly even counter productive in the long run. The hex creates challenges and is certainly one of the more powerful abilities out there, but the world can adapt to it without needing drastic changes to the world or making it something you find in every village. Individual campaigns may have problems, but not the world as a whole.
At which point, the DM puts other monster in the area that the coven of witches can't counter. As well as social bias against witches, not something that takes much searching of real life history to find examples of,
A couple things will help with the social bias (which doesn't have to exist anyway, as Golarion or whatever setting is not medieval Europe): 1, saving villages from being destroyed by giants; 2, the charm hex and charm person spell.
and the propensity of most warriors, and their village, to value their life a bit more than what you suggest. That little cost may suddenly get very big the next time a giant comes a calling, or pretty much anything else, and they have 3 less warriors to help defend the village.
It's not that your solution is bad, it's just that your solution, and indeed every possible solution, creates it's own challenges so that the tactic would work once, maybe even twice, before changing circumstances rendered it ineffective, and possibly even counter productive in the long run.
Any tactic available to a village of 1st level characters to defend against frost giants is going to be dangerous. Further, the slumber and coup de grace tactic is effective against a lot of threats. It won't stop the undead horde led by the necromancer, but it will stop owlbears.
The hex creates challenges and is certainly one of the more powerful abilities out there, but the world can adapt to it without needing drastic changes to the world or making it something you find in every village. Individual campaigns may have problems, but not the world as a whole.
I think the presence of the slumber hex is a good thing for the setting. It explains why there are villages in areas inhabited by frost giants. If frost giants easily can and do attack isolated villages, then why do these villages exist? If you want to do adventures where the PCs protect the village, then you can easily up the threat so the party needs to be involved. Maybe instead of one wandering frost giant, it's a small band led by a frost giant druid.
I think the presence of the slumber hex is a good thing for the setting. It explains why there are villages in areas inhabited by frost giants. If frost giants easily can and do attack isolated villages, then why do these villages exist? If you want to do adventures where the PCs protect the village, then you can easily up the threat so the party needs to be involved. Maybe instead of one wandering frost giant, it's a small band led by a frost giant druid.
It's one explanation, and a good one, but not the only one, and that is where the problem lies. Tribute, diplomacy in general, having a common enemy that forces an alliance (albeit probably an uncomfortable one), microgeography (it's in a valley that the giants can't easily access), and general apathy on the part of the frost giants are other really good explanations many people never stop to think about. The problem with this example and many others that are used to highlight the "brokenness" of the slumber hex is that they all start from the assumption that combat is the only real solution. In a largely combat campaign, the slumber hex could be abused very quickly very early; in a more balanced campaign, the chances for abuse are significantly less, since the focus is on more than winning as many individual combats as quickly as possible.
I noted the social bias because the very nature of the hexes is such that even in a non-historical world, they are still "different" and thus likely going to be subjected to an enhanced level of scrutiny and critique. Encouraging the witch coven to come isn't the hard part; getting them to openly practice would be the harder sell. Even if they are tolerated, being openly accepted as social equals would still be a major challenge, especially for a coven that focused on hexes, which can just as easily be used against other villagers in a power play or personal dispute as they can be to defend the village.
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A quick search will show several long threads about how the slumber hex is negatively affecting peoples campaigns.
It causes people to have less enjoyment at the table then they would if it was not part of the game. It is a problem. Generally the only viable solutions are to house rule addition limits on the hex, or for the GM to only use undead, elves, dragons and constructs and eliminate encounters with other creatures types and most NPC's.
As a GM, I find action-denial to really suck the fun out of the game. I ask my players to use it very sparingly, and I very rarely use it myself.
While I would not say that the Slumber hex is "uniquely" game changing, I would say that it ranks among the most game damaging abilities a player could use in the game.
EDIT: Note that the real problem with this (and hold person, etc.) is that it sets up an easy auto-kill coup de grace. I think if these lower level abilities caused stun, it would not be nearly as game breaking, while still being a very powerful option.
And a quick search also shows how "Wizards/Rogues/Monks/Paladins/Sorcerers/Summoners/Alchemists/Barbarians/Cl erics/Druids make the game less fun" as well....
I noted the social bias because the very nature of the hexes is such that even in a non-historical world, they are still "different" and thus likely going to be subjected to an enhanced level of scrutiny and critique. Encouraging the witch coven to come isn't the hard part; getting them to openly practice would be the harder sell. Even if they are tolerated, being openly accepted as social equals would still be a major challenge.
Witches are not marginalized women singled out to demonstrate the power of the ruler or the unity of the community. They have real, actual, demonstrable power. They have no struggle to be accepted as social equals, they're already on top of the pile.
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w.r.t. Giants attack from range: The Witch / Fighter combo simply hide somewhere and wait for the giants to get into range.
Your well-educated frost giant will know well enough not to attack the village.
As has been said, this combo is effective against most of the things that a village is likely to encounter in the wilderness. If I was setting up my village or town, I would try to get one 1st or 2nd level witch with every guard patrol - i.e. at the cost of an extra 1st or 2nd level fighter. I would probably have some sort of healing machine back at base but I'm not sure I'd worry about anything else.
The concept that we have about witches being outcast is, as pointed out again above, inappropriate in the Pathfinder setting.
To answer sunshadow21: fully agree, of course, but the presence or absence of a witch in the village doesn't affect all the other factors with regards to solving a Frost Giant marauder situation. Sure we'll try diplomacy, but if that doesn't work having a few witches back home lurking in the attics and under the hay wagons is going to make any potential slumberable will-less marauders think two or three times before coming.
Take the witches away, and any giant worth it's salt will fancy its chances with a village that's unlikely to have anyone above 2nd level.
Which is my point - and that's really as a module writer. Witches change the way you think about the world. I accept the point about variability in encounter, but I very much try to write material which makes sense from a fantasy world perspective, and the Slumber Hex is changing things in ways that nothing else that I can think of does.
As a player / GM I also have to concur with "GM Lamplighter" that this hex is detrimental to everyone's enjoyment of the game. It means that every qualifying encounter now has a chance of "not happening", IYSWIM, in a not particularly interesting way. Either you meet the giant, cast the hex, giant sleeps, coup-de-gras, next; or you meet the giant, hex fails and an interesting encounter with everyone participating in it ensues.
Richard
Considering that the Giant, if it fails it save is going to asleep for 1 round, unless the fighter is adjacent to it or within 5', a coup de gras isn't possible, and the now angry giant is going to stand up and kill the two of them.Cackle. Readied action.
BTW, dreamspeaker Elf Witch with 20 Int and Ability Focus and the Mediator social trait has a save dC of 10+0(½ level)+5(int)+2(feat)+1(trait) +1(racial)=19, at level 1.
Effect: A witch can cackle madly as a move action. Any creature that is within 30 feet that is under the effects of an agony hex, charm hex, evil eye hex, fortune hex, or misfortune hex caused by the witch has the duration of that hex extended by 1 round.
I don't see how Cackling will help with a Slumber Hex, plus at first level a witch has only one hex.
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It does seem like, if a 1st level witch can get within 30 feet of a frost giant who is also adjacent to one of the witch's allies who has a high crit multiplier weapon, the witch wins initiative, and there is nothing else threatening the ally to make an AoO, then slumber hex is pretty good against a frost giant.
:)
And a quick search also shows how "Wizards/Rogues/Monks/Paladins/Sorcerers/Summoners/Alchemists/Barbarians/Cl erics/Druids make the game less fun" as well....
Not sure what your point is with that statement. Should all the people who are having less fun they they otherwise would because of the slumber hex just, suck it up and deal because a-rule-is-a-rule?
What advice would you give to GMs who are having trouble with slumber hex aside from house-ruling or limiting most encounters to sleep resistant/immune creatures?
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dont thorw everything with a sucky will save... its not that hard... if yoru having a hard time with the Slumber hex I can't see how you would deal with things like Color Spray from a Heaven's Oracle...
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And a quick search also shows how "Wizards/Rogues/Monks/Paladins/Sorcerers/Summoners/Alchemists/Barbarians/Cl erics/Druids make the game less fun" as well....Not sure what your point is with that statement. Should all the people who are having less fun they they otherwise would because of the slumber hex just, suck it up and deal because a-rule-is-a-rule?
What advice would you give to GMs who are having trouble with slumber hex aside from house-ruling or limiting most encounters to sleep resistant/immune creatures?
Make it an encounter with two frost giants. It's an ambush!
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I mean really? Besides, a witch does not even NEED it's slumber hex. With Misfortune, Quickened Ill Omen, and Cackle a witch can make any creature suck at everything anyway. Slumber does not work? Ok, I still got my spells (with alot of SoS).
I mean, if a witch with slumber is tearing you apart, I don't see how you can begin to play with things like Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, Druids, or Oracles who are well known for breaking the game every which way...
I don't know if its uniquely game changing, but it takes the rocket tag from level 11 or so and brings it into the start of the game.
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^^^ this pretty much.
And I love how the OP was all "OH! this ability is good against Frost Giants so its a broken ability"
I mean... ok? So what? If you have a witch doing that, then it is your job as a GM to account for than and throw in say... creatures with a GOOD WILL SAVE.
Heck it is easier find creatures with good will saves than things with good reflex.
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Against single foes, slumber is a strong option.
However, it has to fail its save against the hex, and then it has to fail its save against CdG or be dealt enough damage to take it to negative HP. This does not always happen.
In a recent game the party witch slumbered the final boss in the first round. The barbarian proceeded to CdG.
One natural 20 later, the fight continued.
It does seem like, if a 1st level witch can get within 30 feet of a frost giant who is also adjacent to one of the witch's allies who has a high crit multiplier weapon, the witch wins initiative, and there is nothing else threatening the ally to make an AoO, then slumber hex is pretty good against a frost giant.
:)
Here is the thing, it isn't hard for the witch to just ready until the monster is within range of another party member. Slumber hex is a "Supernatural ability" which means it is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and is not subject to spell resistance. The people making the coup de graces don't even need high crit weapons, as the coup de grace DC is 10+damage fort save. If you are doing the Slumber hex/CdG thing, almost everyone in the party can use a longspear, which on an average crit would almost auto kill a frost giant if the user has a 14 strength.
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One natural 20 later, the fight continued.
But against the nineteen other foes who didn't get a natural 20...
It does seem like, if a 1st level witch can get within 30 feet of a frost giant who is also adjacent to one of the witch's allies who has a high crit multiplier weapon, the witch wins initiative, and there is nothing else threatening the ally to make an AoO, then slumber hex is pretty good against a frost giant.
:)
Here is the thing, it isn't hard for the witch to just ready until the monster is within range of another party member.
I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying, because it sounds like you think the witch should move to within 30 feet of a frost giant, and ready a standard action to use slumber hex
Slumber hex is a "Supernatural ability" which means it is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and is not subject to spell resistance. The people making the coup de graces don't even need high crit weapons, as the coup de grace DC is 10+damage fort save. If you are doing the Slumber hex/CdG thing, almost everyone in the party can use a longspear, which on an average crit would almost auto kill a frost giant if the user has a 14 strength.
A longspear is high crit weapon. Also, it's a reach weapon, which means your readied action is going to have to be very carefully worded. Honestly, i don't see too many characters carrying longspears. I can definitely say I've never seen a rogue or a bard carry a longspear.
It does seem like, if a 1st level witch can get within 30 feet of a frost giant who is also adjacent to one of the witch's allies who has a high crit multiplier weapon, the witch wins initiative, and there is nothing else threatening the ally to make an AoO, then slumber hex is pretty good against a frost giant.
:)
Here is the thing, it isn't hard for the witch to just ready until the monster is within range of another party member. Slumber hex is a "Supernatural ability" which means it is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and is not subject to spell resistance. The people making the coup de graces don't even need high crit weapons, as the coup de grace DC is 10+damage fort save. If you are doing the Slumber hex/CdG thing, almost everyone in the party can use a longspear, which on an average crit would almost auto kill a frost giant if the user has a 14 strength.
Do note the 120 ft Rock throwing thing.. as in, they can throw rocks WELL before you can slumber them...
What nineteen other foes are we talking about? In my example, there was only one.One natural 20 later, the fight continued.But against the nineteen other foes who didn't get a natural 20...
Oh, well if your campaign only ever had the one combat in it, so the party never got another chance to try the same tactic, then I suppose that your monster surviving because you rolled a natural 20 on a save does prove that slumber/cdg is not a very effective strategy.