Okay, so I made this suggestion in the previous thread and would like to reiterate it.
If the hunter is going to be the premier AC class then why isn't its AC at least as intelligent as a paladin's mount? Personally I'm of the opinion that this class should compete with the Summoner in terms of companion effectiveness and strength.
As for the spontaneous vs prepared caster, I like LadyWurm's idea of spontaneous +1.
I was kinda throwing the smarter companion into my "revised hunter design", so yeah, I agree that would be good. :)
Also, yay for more people liking spontaneous +1! It's so catchy. You gotta say it out loud. "Spontaneous plus one". It sounds like a band name.
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An interesting concept and one I'm not wholey against. I don't think they'd create *another* new casting style, but who knows.
What spells do you need so desperately for combat effectiveness from the druid list?
These are the spells I could see the hunter needing to cast over and over:
1st: cure light wounds, entangle, faerie fire, magic fang
2nd: barkskin, flame blade, resist energy (depending on what animal aspect buff you want to throw or keep on yourself or your companion, bull's strength or cat's grace could also be excellent)
3rd: call lighting, cure moderate wounds, greater magic fang, quench
4th: cure serious wounds, dispel magic, flame strike, ice storm
5th: call lightning storm, cure critical wounds, stoneskin, tree stride
6th: mass cure light wounds, liveoak, transport via plantsWhat we're looking at here primarily is this: Buff, hinder, heal, group damage, mobility. Buff, hinder, heal, group damage, mobility.
This lets them get the maximum potential out of themselves and their pet, keep their HP up, and gives them a means of dealing with large groups when flanking or skirmishing isn't really viable, as well as providing means of getting in and out of situations as needed.
This is why spontaneous casting serves this class so well. It maximizes the effectiveness of the hunter and her pet in skirmish, group combat, and prolonged combat situations.
Call Lightning and Flame Strike? Seriously? Lightning Storm and Ice Storm? Is this a hunter or a mad bomber? Especially if you make the Hunter a spontanious caster. Maybe if they get bumped up a level for Hunters, but even then, I really don't see them as Hunter spells. Hunter spells should be combat support spells, not combat spells.
Call Lightning and Flame Strike? Seriously? Lightning Storm and Ice Storm? Is this a hunter or a mad bomber? Especially if you make the Hunter a spontanious caster. Maybe if they get bumped up a level for Hunters, but even then, I really don't see them as Hunter spells. Hunter spells should be combat support spells, not combat spells.
My more recent post gives a much better example of "what would I prepare" versus "what would I know" as a hunter. It gives an incredibly clear reason for spontaneous casting. :)
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Just some straight up suggestions to try:
Give the Hunter 6+Int skill points. This would make the skill bonuses granted by Animal Focus real bonuses rather than an ability to shore up weaknesses/turn mediocre into decent.
Give the Hunter hunter's tricks, confusingly, the class feature of the ranger skirmisher archetype. I am not sure off the top of my head at what rate, but every few levels, they get a new trick. Straight up, just add it as a class skill.
Give the hunter unique Handle Animal tricks they can teach their animal companion (compare to, for example, the tricks the ranger falconer archetype can teach his animal companion).
Give the Hunter the Improved Animal Empathy ability that the ranger Beast Master archetype has. Given how much the devs seem to want the animal companion to be the main point of the class, it doesn't make sense that the hunter doesn't have it.
The Hunter lacks both focused theme and versatility; I think the above would help and would not overpower the class, given comparatively currently both the druid and ranger are still better at what the hunter does for the most part, especially with the archetypes available to them (if I want to play someone who isn't a full caster with a strong animal companion theme, I'd rather play a ranger-beast master). Some minor skill/attribute buffs to the animal companion don't make up for it.
I also agree with the suggestions to make the hunter a spontaneous caster. It would also help it defy the "why wouldn't I just play a ranger or druid" argument which still beats the hunter most of the time.
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Call Lightning and Flame Strike? Seriously? Lightning Storm and Ice Storm? Is this a hunter or a mad bomber? Especially if you make the Hunter a spontanious caster. Maybe if they get bumped up a level for Hunters, but even then, I really don't see them as Hunter spells. Hunter spells should be combat support spells, not combat spells.My more recent post gives a much better example of "what would I prepare" versus "what would I know" as a hunter. It gives an incredibly clear reason for spontaneous casting. :)
I think I'm coming around to the Spontaneous + One. It does seem catchy and it does answer some big problems for the Hunter. But the direct damage spells should go. Other than that, I do believe you're on to something.
And I definitely think that people are right that the AC should have a higher starting intelligence. Something that makes the AC truly special.
I think I'm coming around to the Spontaneous + One. It does seem catchy and it does answer some big problems for the Hunter. But the direct damage spells should go. Other than that, I do believe you're on to something.
And I definitely think that people are right that the AC should have a higher starting intelligence. Something that makes the AC truly special.
Yay!
Played my Hunter again last night in a PFS Game.
The “always on” Animal Focus for the Companion was helpful for the Companion, but less so for me. The one time I activated it, it basically allowed me to get to the combat in time to swing & miss.
I would still like to see some tweaking on the Companion-Hunter interactions & bonuses.
If you’re going for a beast master sort of theme, I think an empathic link which gives alternate Companion abilities would be thematically appropriate and help address some of the normal issues with Companions (and justify some of my suggestions below).
I think that the “does not provide cover” direction that we mistakenly started to go towards would actually be a much larger benefit that than the “not quite a precise shot” bonus in that it would stack with Precise Shot so that the Hunter could always shoot / attack over their Companion. I still believe that this ability could also scale well for additional unique mechanics which still fit in with general PF rules by allowing the Companion to extend the benefit to adjacent allies at higher levels giving the Hunter a unique niche which allows the Companion itself to contribute as a party member by removing standard penalties suffered by the rest of the group.
I think that the ability to have either specialized Tricks or some other ability to cause the Companions to not provoke attacks of opportunity when moving into position &/or not create cover would also be advantageous and give the Hunter Companion a niche that other companions (well, other than maybe the Paladin’s smart Companion) aren’t able to exploit.
Bonuses, or better yet lowered DC’s on “pushing” the Companion would also be handy.
Hunter tricks added to their repertoire might be interesting.
I would not be a supporter of spontaneous casting – at that point you are effectively an Inquisitor with the Animal Domain and without the Judgment & Bane abilities. I would rather see the Hunter go in a direction closer to a cleric or druid if additional spell support is needed – thematic spontaneous conversions. I think the Animal Focus ability is supposed to provide the “buff spell” support and don’t think that adding a more limited spell selection would offset the inability to tailor spells ahead of time for encounters. I do still think that the Hunter should have access to Ranger spells, but I’m not sure if there should be a scaling concern on a 1-1 conversion as the base assumption for Ranger spells is for characters to gain them 3 levels higher than a hunter would theoretically have access to them.
-TimD
What I would prepare...
Yup, your preferences. Not mine. You mentioned "Endure Elements" being the Cleric's "job"; guess what, so are Cure spells apparently. You're effectively shoe-horning the Hunter by saying they all take certain spells at certain levels. Why not just give cure spells to them for free? Why even have a spell list then? Why not just give them new spells at certain levels? It can go both ways.
Still, I'm in the minority and in the end I'm sure Paizo will consider both sides but prioritize making the majority happen. As SKR said, if you want a weakened spontaneous character, well go for it.
As others have pointed out, I'm on board with Hunter's getting a selection of Ranger spells too. I don't think a custom spell list is necessary for this class (like the Bloodrager), but I do think it would benefit from the Ranger's hunting-based spells.
You're effectively shoe-horning the Hunter by saying they all take certain spells at certain levels.
The hunter has two characters to worry about healing and protecting. That affects her spell economy immensely. :)
I think "spontaneous +1" would be the best answer, and added ranger spells would also be nice, but I'd be happy with just spontaneous druid casting. ^__^
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heh the hunter would just do the more reasonable thing when it comes to healing his animal companion, get a wand of cure light wounds and heal out of combat. Even on my cleric, I don't bother converting spells to cure spells, a wand does the job just fine. The only healing spell I bother ever preparing is heal because of how strong it is.
heh the hunter would just do the more reasonable thing when it comes to healing his animal companion, get a wand of cure light wounds and heal out of combat. Even on my cleric, I don't bother converting spells to cure spells, a wand does the job just fine. The only healing spell I bother ever preparing is heal because of how strong it is.
A class's ability to function should never be dependent on magic items.
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Adding a "hunter combat style" to allow the hunter to focus on ranged (and get the Precise Shot bonus) or melee (and get something else) is interesting.
I like the suggestion of improved empathic link from the beastmaster range archetype and the hunter's tricks from the skirmisher ranger archetype.
We're considering the spontaneous spellcasting, which would make the hunter unique as the only spontaneous caster using the druid list. Personally, I think if the hunter could learn spells from the druid and ranger lists, that would also be unique and interesting.
We're definitely going to improve the hunter's ability to use Handle Animal on the companion, similar to the cavalier's expert trainer ability.
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Look, let's be practical about this. It's 12/3 now in favor of spontaneous.
Remember, this is not a democracy. We're not taking a vote about what to give the class. Just because 12 people on this thread think it's a good idea doesn't mean it should happen.
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Hmmm frankly maybe the only thing that they would need to up their survival is some kind of a permanent shield other link...guess that would be like the summoner life link ability but this could help the hunter and animal companion a lot since from what most people are saying, the hunter is just sitting in a corner not doing much.
heh the hunter would just do the more reasonable thing when it comes to healing his animal companion, get a wand of cure light wounds and heal out of combat. Even on my cleric, I don't bother converting spells to cure spells, a wand does the job just fine. The only healing spell I bother ever preparing is heal because of how strong it is.A class's ability to function should never be dependent on magic items.
I fully agree, as one does get very low magic item campaigns.
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Look, let's be practical about this. It's 12/3 now in favor of spontaneous.Remember, this is not a democracy. We're not taking a vote about what to give the class. Just because 12 people on this thread think it's a good idea doesn't mean it should happen.
I know. I just meant it's a popular desire for the class. :)
Great news about you guys trying out the spontaneous casting, and about the hunter combat style! The improved empathic link and hunter's tricks would also be very nice. I imagine this news is going to make a lot of people happy.
More useful casting + less empty levels + more options + better survivability for the hunter herself = awesome. ^^
Adding a "hunter combat style" to allow the hunter to focus on ranged (and get the Precise Shot bonus) or melee (and get something else) is interesting.
I like the suggestion of improved empathic link from the beastmaster range archetype and the hunter's tricks from the skirmisher ranger archetype.
We're considering the spontaneous spellcasting, which would make the hunter unique as the only spontaneous caster using the druid list. Personally, I think if the hunter could learn spells from the druid and ranger lists, that would also be unique and interesting.
We're definitely going to improve the hunter's ability to use Handle Animal on the companion, similar to the cavalier's expert trainer ability.
Thanx Sean for willing to take this to the dev team for consideration. I see these changes will solve the melee vs ranged camps issue too.
If the hunter can get on track as it seems to be headed now, that only leaves one or two other "problem" classes. Shaman is one of them I think. Lot of people harping on the brawler and swashbuckler though. Going back to the hunter, this class has so much potential, and I hope to see it really shine. :)
I will take this opportunity to say though that I think the bloodrager, investigator, warpriest, swashbuckler and slayer have really been batting a thousand in terms of great class design.
Adding a "hunter combat style" to allow the hunter to focus on ranged (and get the Precise Shot bonus) or melee (and get something else) is interesting.
I like the suggestion of improved empathic link from the beastmaster range archetype and the hunter's tricks from the skirmisher ranger archetype.
We're considering the spontaneous spellcasting, which would make the hunter unique as the only spontaneous caster using the druid list. Personally, I think if the hunter could learn spells from the druid and ranger lists, that would also be unique and interesting.
We're definitely going to improve the hunter's ability to use Handle Animal on the companion, similar to the cavalier's expert trainer ability.
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Look, let's be practical about this. It's 12/3 now in favor of spontaneous.Remember, this is not a democracy. We're not taking a vote about what to give the class. Just because 12 people on this thread think it's a good idea doesn't mean it should happen.
I'm not in favor of spontaneous. Charisma as a casting stat would make this class really MAD also it limits the utility of the list/lists.
Charisma as a casting stat would make this class really MAD also it limits the utility of the list/lists.
You should read my breakdown of hunter casting and demands on the hunter. With two characters to take care of, essentially, there's literally no room for utility without spontaneous casting. Your spell economy is consumed just doing maintenance. I, one of my group, and others in this forum have all discovered that same problem when playtesting the hunter.
As for the MAD issue, the spontaneous casting doesn't have to be Cha-based, and even if it is, there can be an upside to MAD. It frees you up to raise the power level of a class slightly more because of stat division.
While I have been wanting a spontaneous druid spell list cha based caster, I would much prefer a full caster then a partial one. In fact I wish this class had no spell casting and was a fighter class with a animal(or magical beast, maybe even using a limited version of the summoner's evolution point system) companion with supernatural abilities and maybe some spell like powers.
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Where did the idea that spontaneous casting has to be cha-based come from in the first place? Inquisitors are spontaneous casters, and they use Wis. Regardless of whether or not the class is spontaneous, I definitely think it should remain a Wis-based caster (by default). It's just more in-tune with the archetype. It's incidentally the case that there's a fairly tight correlation between being a Cha-based caster and being a spontaneous caster, but there's no particular reason for the class to use Cha as a casting stat just because it goes spontaneous.
Finished DM-ing some encounters yesterday for my group.I ran two encounters with level 4 builds (cr4, and cr6), then two at level 10 (cr 10, cr 12), and finally level 15 builds (Cr15 and cr17). The group remade their current level 15 characters from my weekly game into advanced classes.
The hunter was a human, melee focused and his companion was a T-Rex (not everyone uses a big cat). Their thoughts and mine after play-testing and reading this forum.
players likes:
level 4 - Class is strong, just like any other class that gets an animal companion. Animal focus is okay, just feels like shaman druids totem transformation.
level 10-Class dropped to least effect out of the group. Spell utility + animal aspect is its saving grave at this point, but still looses to druid and oracle it terms of power and effectiveness.When buffed and proper teamwork feats are used, the class is okay.
level 15- none ( I believe this was due to comparing it with his old class)
dislikes:
level 4 - The class is almost indistinguishable from the druid at this level, save for loosing wild shape and the lack of armor restrictions.Besides track and reflex save their is almost no inclusion of the Ranger.
level 10 - Animal focus becomes much less useful at this level. As advertised it will save you an items slot and money. What we found is that the character will pick up the item anyway because having an effective magical stat item for 10 min a day is not that good, and prohibits you from swamping it to another item. The character was very disappointed that for the next ten levels all he was going to get in terms of class abilities was 3 team work feats. The companion starts to be less effective at this level as its chances to hit diminished and it was being affected by control effects. This is more harmful to the Hunter than other animal focused classes as half of its class features are build around teamwork feats that rely on the companion. It has no way like the inquisitor or cavalier to make use of literally half of its class abilities if its pet is CC'ed/ dead.
level 15 - Player became frustrated at class, almost no change from level 10 besides a few number increases to old abilities, more teamwork feats and 2 levels of spells. Player complained that the class had no feel of its own. It constantly underperformed in damage and utility compared to the other classes, and the animal companion became a liability at this point seeing that it only had a 25% chance to hit un-buffed and failed almost all will saves thrown at it. This once again removed half of the hunters class focus, teamwork feats.
What players seem to want:
There seems to be two camps on this, one who want WOW style archery, and the other who want the class to actually have the strongest animal companion in the game. In rearguards to the archery bit that's already covered by the ranger. For the animal companion group, I think this is the direction the class need to go in. The hunters companion is lacking in both power and class abilities that aid it. A good example of more flavorful, powerful and better linked class abilities between a class and animal companion are found in the Mad Dog Barbarian's Warbeast, Throat Cutter, and Ferocious Fetch, the Fell Riders Terror, Dread rider and Brute Stead, or the Huntmaster's Bestial Challenge, Take Down, and Pack Attack abilities.
What developers want from this class?
Could you give us a better idea on what niche or focus you want this class to have? As of now it seems like its built around team work feats. I hope this is not the case, because while many teamwork feats are nice, the prerequisites and lack of support from anyone besides your pet is hurting this class.
What I think might help this class:
I have 3 different suggestions that might move this class to a better position depending on the direction it goes.
If you keep animal focus, please change the bonus type, at higher levels it does not mean the character will not have to buy the magical item. It just means they won't use half of the animal focuses, which will further limit this class.
To Make a better animal companion, I don't think to much needs to be done.first give it access to the two animal focuses later on.Second, the Mammoth rider prestige class has a nice template (Gigantic Steed), for creating a bigger badder companion. Adding something akin to this as an animal focus only for the companion at higher levels, or as a class ability at level 10, would make it more viable and satisfy many of the people looking for the summoner equivalent. It would also fill in that horrible gap between level 8 -19 were the hunter only gets team work feats. Creating animal focuses that protect from debilitating effects would be useful, like the Mammoth Lord ability but only for the companion.
For the Wow fans the Hunter could include a little bit more from the Ranger class. The Ranger Trap ability, in combination with teamwork feats and the larger spell list could create an awesome ambush style class. gaining on at level one and ever four level
after would increase power and utility, but not to much, while giving it something from one of its parent classes.
Hope we will get an update here in forum, if not PDF, from Sean so we can test run the proposed ideas.
Where did the idea that spontaneous casting has to be cha-based come from in the first place? Inquisitors are spontaneous casters, and they use Wis. Regardless of whether or not the class is spontaneous, I definitely think it should remain a Wis-based caster (by default). It's just more in-tune with the archetype. It's incidentally the case that there's a fairly tight correlation between being a Cha-based caster and being a spontaneous caster, but there's no particular reason for the class to use Cha as a casting stat just because it goes spontaneous.
Agreed, and given how much a hunter is based around cunning and perception, I think it will probably stay as Wis. :)
For most OOC healing the Hunter could just use purchased wands like most healers do so I don't feel healing spells are a justification for spontaneous casting.
For the record I fall on the prepared caster side of the debate (though LadyWurm's spontaneous+1 did seem like a very interesting casting style). The druid list contains too many situational spells for effective spontaneous use, and I feel the same subset of spells will appear on just about every hunter's list. Thematically this would be a loss for what seems like a resourceful character.
So if OOC healing is not an issue that would mean IC healing is important. Many of the playtest's I've read have mentioned the need for mid combat healing for the hunter. Given the AC isn't as sturdy as a front line fighter (but will want to be up there anyways) and without it the hunter loses most of his effectiveness it seems like the durability of the pet should be increased.
No need to change from Wisdom to Charisma for spontaneous druid spell casting.
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Could you give us a better idea on what niche or focus you want this class to have? As of now it seems like its built around team work feats. I hope this is not the case, because while many teamwork feats are nice, the prerequisites and lack of support from anyone besides your pet is hurting this class.
First of all, Excellent post! I really feel like you've not only come to the same conclusion as many of us but did it with actual game experience.
I do personally like the teamwork feats; the idea that you fight better with your pet than anyone else. I hope they don't remove (all of) them, but do agree it should not be the class concept alone.
I hope the devs see the trend with:
+ Animal focus' bonus type being an issue (making what should be a major class benefit minor)
+ The feeling that the Animal Companion is not different enough than the other class' to make the hunter the AC class
+ The Hunter could use more ranger aspects; personally I'd like some access to Combat Style (which would really help the low BAB and Mad stats).
If you keep animal focus, please change the bonus type, at higher levels it does not mean the character will not have to buy the magical item. It just means they won't use half of the animal focuses, which will further limit this class.
I mentioned this issue earlier as well. That's a good point about player just not using half of their animal focuses. Additionally, most people would prefer an item that gives them a constant bonus instead of a class feature that will only last them a handful of minutes per day. I also think the scaling could be better.
For example, on top of whatever his Belt of Giant Strength is giving him, Papa Druid gets his +8 Size bonus to Strength (and +4 to Con, +6 Natural Armor, DR 5/—, and immunity to crits, sneak attack, and bleeding) by turning into a Huge Earth Elemental at Level 12. He can keep these bonuses for half a day if he wants. Meanwhile, his son Hunter is trying to make due with his +4 Enhancement bonus to one stat that doesn't stack with his Belt of Physical Whatever and clocks out in twelve minutes. It will be another three levels before that bonus goes up to +6.
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We're definitely going to improve the hunter's ability to use Handle Animal on the companion, similar to the cavalier's expert trainer ability.
Any chance of that coming about by way of "Intelligent companion that follows verbal commands" instead?
Still no official comment on spontaneous spellcasting? :/How do you think making this a limited-spells-known-with-spontaneous-caster improves it?
I've heavily played a ranger and I don't like the "choose before you use" spellcasting. The Cleric and Druid both can loose a spell to cast a cure or summon spell and have more spells. Rangers have a very limited number of spells and it's always a pain to try to guess what you might need.
If the Hunter is a spontaneous caster, then spell selection is part of shaping the character. Will your spells be more hunting oriented, will they be more animal companion buffing, or will they be general utility spells.
We're considering the spontaneous spellcasting, which would make the hunter unique as the only spontaneous caster using the druid list. Personally, I think if the hunter could learn spells from the druid and ranger lists, that would also be unique and interesting.
Do both. Have the Hunter as a spontaneous spellcaster who can choose spells from both the druid and ranger lists.
Adding a template to your animal companion could be cool. Make it something like a choice between the Giant Template and the Advanced Template. And I don't mean the simple templates. I mean the full templates.
Another idea to help them out with their accuracy problem would be to have animal companions use the d10 hit die track, or to make the animal companion's BAB equal to the Hunter's level.
Perhaps the Animal Companion could gain eldritch claws at something like 4th or 5th level? Or even weapon focus or improved natural attack?
Adding a template to your animal companion could be cool. Make it something like a choice between the Giant Template and the Advanced Template. And I don't mean the simple templates. I mean the full templates.
Another idea to help them out with their accuracy problem would be to have animal companions use the d10 hit die track, or to make the animal companion's BAB equal to the Hunter's level.
Perhaps the Animal Companion could gain eldritch claws at something like 4th or 5th level? Or even weapon focus or improved natural attack?
I really like the idea of the hunter's AC getting a template. Would be an easy method of scaling up the AC in a controlled fashion.
It would definitely make the AC notably more advanced which seems to be the feel the devs want for the class.
Adding a template to your animal companion could be cool. Make it something like a choice between the Giant Template and the Advanced Template. And I don't mean the simple templates. I mean the full templates.
Another idea to help them out with their accuracy problem would be to have animal companions use the d10 hit die track, or to make the animal companion's BAB equal to the Hunter's level.
Perhaps the Animal Companion could gain eldritch claws at something like 4th or 5th level? Or even weapon focus or improved natural attack?
I really like the idea of the hunter's AC getting a template. Would be an easy method of scaling up the AC in a controlled fashion.
It would definitely make the AC notably more advanced which seems to be the feel the devs want for the class.
I forgot to mention. There should be one restriction. Large animal companions should not be able to take the Giant template. That is the Mammoth rider's schtick. Though an advanced large animal is nothing to sneeze at.
Does anyone else think the bonus type for the Snake aspect of Animal Focus is a little strange? It provides a bonus to attacks of opportunity, but since it is an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with your masterwork or magic weapon.
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Does anyone else think the bonus type for the Snake aspect of Animal Focus is a little strange? It provides a bonus to attacks of opportunity, but since it is an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with your masterwork or magic weapon.
Good point it looks like the snake aspect would be mostly only used by the animal companion. I guess kinda like how the wolf aspect will see little use by an animal companion but could potentially be used by a hunter.
Does anyone else think the bonus type for the Snake aspect of Animal Focus is a little strange? It provides a bonus to attacks of opportunity, but since it is an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with your masterwork or magic weapon.Good point it looks like the snake aspect would be mostly only used by the animal companion. I guess kinda like how the wolf aspect will see little use by an animal companion but could potentially be used by a hunter.
That's true about it being more useful for the animal companion, but then you need to take into account magic fang or an amulet of mighty fists.
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That's true about it being more useful for the animal companion, but then you need to take into account magic fang or an amulet of mighty fists.Does anyone else think the bonus type for the Snake aspect of Animal Focus is a little strange? It provides a bonus to attacks of opportunity, but since it is an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with your masterwork or magic weapon.Good point it looks like the snake aspect would be mostly only used by the animal companion. I guess kinda like how the wolf aspect will see little use by an animal companion but could potentially be used by a hunter.
I guess making it a circumstance bonus wouldn't be too bad, because you are trying to make Attack of Opportunities happen. It's so circumstantial that the snake aspect will barely ever comes up unless you specifically build to make the opponent provokes AoO.
Does anyone else think the bonus type for the Snake aspect of Animal Focus is a little strange? It provides a bonus to attacks of opportunity, but since it is an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with your masterwork or magic weapon.
Good point.
Does anyone else think the bonus type for the Snake aspect of Animal Focus is a little strange? It provides a bonus to attacks of opportunity, but since it is an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with your masterwork or magic weapon.Good point.
More reason to change the enhancement bonus on all aspects ;)
(I badger in jest-- partially at least).
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Ladywrym, You left off the 4 most important spells for animal companions
3rd: Strong Jaw, Heal Companion
4th: Stone Skin, Animal Growth
I would also have Flame strike and Ice Storm on the list to give the Hunter some spell based offense.
I would also give the Hunter the basic healing spells at 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th level.
I also would like to see spells to buff tracking, stealth, swim and other out doorsy type things.
Sean I made an alternate Animal companion table could I PM it to you as I do not know how to attach a excel sheet to a post on the board.
Hmmm how about this for improving the animal companion,
At the 2nd level and every three levels thereafter, A hunters animal companion gains access to a single spell the hunter has access to as a spell like ability availible WIS+1/day, The animal companion can only target themselves with these spell like ability's.
Ladywrym, You left off the 4 most important spells for animal companions
3rd: Strong Jaw, Heal Companion
4th: Stone Skin, Animal GrowthI would also have Flame strike and Ice Storm on the list to give the Hunter some spell based offense.
I would also give the Hunter the basic healing spells at 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th level.I also would like to see spells to buff tracking, stealth, swim and other out doorsy type things.
Sean I made an alternate Animal companion table could I PM it to you as I do not know how to attach a excel sheet to a post on the board.
All of those are good spells. :)
I probably wouldn't take animal growth myself, and maybe not strong jaw, but definitely heal companion and stoneskin if I had the slots. Also, taking flame strike or ice storm is almost a given. Gets a little crowd control in there. With two characters to watch out for, I'm definitely inclined to put more effort into defense over offense, so that I don't have to use as many heals on both hunter and AC. Even a good area damage spell can help with that, thinning the ranks and all.
Animal Growth seems extremely useful as a spell. Though it will effectively reduce the AC by 2, it will increase HPs by 2/HD and the to hit by 3, damage by 4 (plus the dice increase) and the CMB/CMD by 5/3 respectively. That can be huge for both damage output or combat maneuver effectiveness.
Strong jaw is useful as a damage buff that is not tied to an overly present bonus type.
In both examples they show a greater discrepancy between the hunter and the druid; the druid will get each spell at level 9 and 7 respectively while the hunter won't until 13 and 10.
This further increases the gap of effectiveness between the Druid and the Hunter in the Hunter's own niche!
Allowing the hunter to instead take them as ranger spells helps (changing the levels to 10 and 7) but it shows that the attempt to simplify the Hunter class to just using the Druid list without any modification is problematic.