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Eltacolibre wrote:
Frogged wrote:
Does anyone else think the bonus type for the Snake aspect of Animal Focus is a little strange? It provides a bonus to attacks of opportunity, but since it is an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with your masterwork or magic weapon.
Good point it looks like the snake aspect would be mostly only used by the animal companion. I guess kinda like how the wolf aspect will see little use by an animal companion but could potentially be used by a hunter.

That's true about it being more useful for the animal companion, but then you need to take into account magic fang or an amulet of mighty fists.


Does anyone else think the bonus type for the Snake aspect of Animal Focus is a little strange? It provides a bonus to attacks of opportunity, but since it is an enhancement bonus, it won't stack with your masterwork or magic weapon.


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Pg. 162 - Shigenjo (Oracle)

Advanced Race Guide wrote:
Class Skills: A shigenjo adds Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (planes), and Survival to her list of class skills. These replace the additional class skills from her mystery.

Both Knowledge(planes) and Knowledge(religion) are already class skills for all Oracles.

Advanced Player's Guide wrote:

Class skills

The oracle’s class skills are Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). In addition, oracles receive additional class skills depending upon their oracle mystery.


I'm having a hard time understanding what you posted.

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Well, I'm not sure that's really true - non-Essentials mages specialise

I don't know what you mean by this. Arcanists, the wizard builds that existed before the Mage was released, do not have any way to specialize in schools of magic. Actually, schools of magic didn't even exist in 4e until the release of the Mage in Heroes of the Fallen Lands. Arcanists focus on the implement they use to cast spells (such as wand, orb, staff, and tome) instead of what school the spells are from.

Quote:
plus, I don't really buy that that is they way the system is intended to operate, given the "generalist" is effectively in a different book an Essentials player wouldn't buy, i.e. if that were the case, they'd both be in Essentials.

This part of your post is really confusing. I'm not at all sure what you mean by the "way the system is intended to operate". Are you suggesting that WotC should have reprinted every pre-essentials class build in the Essentials books? How about if they just gave away the Arcanist build of the wizard for free on the WotC website?

Quote:
Rather, it just strikes me as non-support for non-Essentials, rather than something driven by specific mechanics as such.

While I can understand this concern, it seems a little misplaced. There are 13 themes in the Neverwinter book and around 20 more published in the last few issues of Dragon. Out of all of them, Renegade Red Wizard is the only theme with a class prerequisite.

(It should also be noted that one of the Neverwinter themes lists among its prerequisites the race of Shifter, a race not included in the Essentials products. This is also true for Shadar-kai.)

On an unrelated note, if it makes you feel any better, one of the pieces of information shared at Gencon was that printed products would not contain solely essentials style class builds. As an example, they noted that there would be Monk support in Powers of the Plane Below that was specifically targeted at the PHB3 Monk.


Aubrey the Malformed wrote:

However...

The themes are fitted around character concepts (including background) which are supposed to then tie back in to the campaign. So if you want to play a wizard (arcanist now, is it?) and wanted to play a Red Wizard (makes sense) suddenly you can't. Goodbye character concept, goodbye PHB, hello Essentials.

I mean, it's not that big a deal. It colours my view a bit of the stuff coming out of WotC right now, but Neverwinter is certainly usable to a non-Essentials player. It's just that a large section of that book is built around character concepts and there seem to be a few compatibility issues. It's a niggle more than a complaint, but it niggles nevertheless.

I think you misunderstand what this specific theme represents. It is not a general wizard-type background. Red Wizards (of Thay) have always been structured around school specialization, focusing largely on a single school of magic (see: Red Wizard Prestige Class). In 4e, Mages are the wizard variant that specializes in schools of magic, while the Arcanist from the PHB1 is more of a generalist. In fact, this theme actually replaces some of the Mage's ability to specialize in a second school of magic with other features based around a single school. The restrictions on this theme seem entirely lore based.


Dragnmoon wrote:

I really want to Play 4e, But I abhor forgotten realms, I would love to play an Eberron or Dark Suns living campaign, but I know there isn't any.

A few questions.

A news on other living Campaigns?

What is D&D Encounters?

What is the difference between D&D Encounters and LFR?

There is very little information about it right now, but apparently Baldman Games is starting its own Dark Sun "shared world campaign" called Ashes of Athas at D&D Experience next year.

Sparse official page
DDXP Listing
WotC forum thread with semi-official responses


Stefan Hill wrote:


To put in context;

PF Bard = 1st level (close to 2nd before our DM went on holiday)

CHA and Knowledge skills (specifically Local and Nobility)

0-level spells
*Mending - repaired a plough for a farmer (same one with the cow - see below.)
*Lullaby
*Mage Hand
*Ghost Sound

1st-level spells
*Cure light wounds - so far only cast on a farmers cow that was attacked by a wolf... :)
*Silent Image

My first Bard I have ever made up (full stop) and it was really funny to play under PF (the DM is a Vampire player from way back and she likes story over combat by a large ratio - in fact we aren't allowed to openly carry weapons in the city the adventure is taking place in due to the laws of the land). I had a ball using my 0-level spells (effectively At-Wills I guess).

Now that I see what you want to try to replicate, here is another take on your Bard:

Level 3 Bard:
level 3
Half-Elf, Bard|Wizard
Hybrid Bard: Hybrid Bard Will
Hybrid Talent: Words of Friendship
Background: Human - Ancestral Holdings (+2 to Diplomacy)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 18.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 16.

AC: 14 Fort: 13 Reflex: 14 Will: 17
HP: 33 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +14, Bluff +10, Streetwise +10, Arcana +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Dungeoneering +3, Endurance +4, Heal +3, History +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +6, Nature +3, Perception +3, Religion +5, Stealth +2, Thievery +2, Athletics +1

FEATS
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 2: Hybrid Talent

POWERS
Dilettante: Direct the Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Staggering Note
Hybrid at-will 1: Magic Missile
Hybrid encounter 1: Fast Friends
Hybrid daily 1: Sleep
Hybrid utility 2: Canon of Avoidance
Hybrid encounter 3: Hypnotic Pattern

ITEMS
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing), Adventurer's Kit, Longsword, Wand Implement
RITUALS
Make Whole, Glib Limerick, Traveler's Chant, Lullaby, Unseen Servant, Hallucinatory Item

0-level spells
*Mending -> Make Whole (ritual)
*Lullaby -> Lullaby (ritual)
*Mage Hand -> Mage Hand
*Ghost Sound -> Ghost Sound
also
- Prestidigitation
- Light
- Glib Limerick (bard ritual) (optional)
- Traveler's Chant (bard ritual) (optional)
- Unseen Servant (ritual) (optional)

1st-level spells
*Cure light wounds -> Majestic Word
*Silent Image - I couldn't think of a direct conversion for this one. You can use Prestidigitation to make a small illusion for a short time. There are also some encounter Wizard or Bard powers you might reflavor to have a similar effect, but your best bet would be the 5th level ritual Hallucinatory Item which is basically the same spell as Silent Image (but requires you be 5th level to learn).

I went with a Hybrid Wizard simply to gain the cantrips to fit your character, but a Pathfinder Bard is a little bit wizard anyway (as mentioned above you could also get these cantrips by playing a gnome + a feat). Also, all of the choices made to match your previous Bard's powers were either rituals or class features, so you are free to take (or not take if you prefer) any at-will/encounter/daily/utility powers of your choosing.

If you feel I left something out, or you are looking for something different, please let me know.


Stefan Hill wrote:

Perhaps I'm missing something but my Bard isn't a Bard. Well more specifically NOT a Bard I want to play.

I have a 1/2-Elf in a Pathfinder Game that I wanted to transfer to a 4e game I'm playing in as the PF game is on hold while the DM is away. But I really like my Bard - one RPG is as good as another I say so it made sense to make a 4e version. My Bard is a non-combatant in PF, doesn't have offensive spells and is stock standard with a sword. In short fighting is the last resort and best left for others when it does happen.

My problem is I can't help but take "combat" orientated powers in 4e. I guess this is the first time I have tried to make what I call non-combat focused character in 4e (previous: Druid, Warden, Paladin, Sorcerer). Is there anyway I can stay true to my Bard's original character concept?

A little disappointed,
S.

I've found that when attempting to recreate a character in 4e, you shouldn't start with what that character's old class was, but what you want to do with that character. Since the roles of Bards have changed a bit between editions (and Pathfinder), you may not wish to go with a direct conversion. Also remember that reflavoring of powers (and even classes) can be a great boon when you're trying to realize a character concept.

Using what you've stated, here is my attempt at a 4e "Bard" character that might fit your idea: (you didn't state a level so I stopped at 4)

Level 4 Non-combat Bard:
level 4
Half-Elf, Bard|Cleric
Hybrid Bard: Hybrid Bard Will
Hybrid Talent: Song of Rest
Background: Human - Ancestral Holdings (+2 to Diplomacy)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 17, Cha 19.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 16.

AC: 18 Fort: 14 Reflex: 13 Will: 18
HP: 41 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +8, Streetwise +11, Bluff +11, Diplomacy +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +7, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +7, Heal +9, History +7, Insight +11, Intimidate +10, Nature +9, Perception +9, Stealth +5, Thievery +5, Athletics +4

FEATS
Level 1: Bard of All Trades
Level 2: Group Insight
Level 4: Hybrid Talent

POWERS
Dilettante: Direct the Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Staggering Note
Hybrid at-will 1: Astral Seal
Hybrid encounter 1: Fast Friends
Hybrid daily 1: Font of Tears
Hybrid utility 2: Canon of Avoidance
Hybrid encounter 3: Hymn of Resurgence

ITEMS
Chainmail, Adventurer's Kit, Longsword, Wand Implement

His feats are dedicated to increasing skill checks, and boosting the party (through song).
All of his "attacks" can all be reflavored as songs or performance which hinder enemies and boost allies, and all but one of them deal no damage. His at-wills do little or no damage; Astral Seal only reduces enemy defenses and grants healing, while Staggering Note does do a small amount of damage (but only charisma modifier) and is more about distracting an enemy to allow an ally an opening to attack.

Both of his encounter powers are song flavored (even the cleric power!) where Fast Friends charms an enemy into inaction, and Hymn of Resurgence reduces enemies defenses and grants temporary HP to allies.

With this build there were actually several dallies to choose from that could fit this concept pretty well. While Font of Tears can be flavored as a song that dazes enemies and reduces that attacks of all enemies around you, Beacon of Hope, Curse of Misfortune, and Moment of Glory could all be used instead.

Finally, utility powers will probably be the easiest part of this character. I selected Canon of Avoidance, a song that shields allies, but its really hard to make a bad choice here.

I went with a hybrid Bard/Cleric because the cleric has the most access to non-damaging powers, but there are probably several other concepts that could also work.