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I have a custom race, I'm calling them Hecs for the moment (from hecatonchires). They are like mini hiveminds. Each individual controls 3-6 separate physical bodies with a single mind (though elders can control more, though only in legends has the number been over a dozen).
How would you handle this race in pathfinder in general? Separately, how about in terms of abilities, character advancement, and actions per turn?
Note, I'd only allow use as a pc if all pcs were hecs (or my other race which has much power of it's own).
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Mr. James Jacobs,
I would like your opinion. Would eating the flesh of an invisible stalker be something you could see a neutral aligned spirit of the continent doing?
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Have you seen the new Ghostbusters movie? If so, what do you think? Are you a fan of the old ones?
Haven't seen the new one yet. I hope to... might not get a chance till next weekend though.
I didnt' like the 2nd one at all. And while I enjoyed the first one... it's hardly a favorite. I wouldn't call myself a Ghostbusters fan.
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Ooh! What kind of build do you think you'll go for? Will it be similar to your characters from the earlier iterations, or are you going to try something new?I've played Dragonfall. Just started playing Hong Kong about 3 hours ago.So a couple of pages back you mentioned that you enjoyed playing through Shadowrun Returns.
Have You played Hairbrained Scheme's other 2 Shadowrun Games: Dragonfall/Hong Kong? If not I'd highly recommend them as they take all the good from Returns and refine it with a more polished combat system and brand new stories
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It's similar to the previous games, yeah. Female elf sniper/hacker basically.
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Would you feel differently if you were persnally an atheist? Rahadoum does allow faith... in your fellow man.
I'm not an atheist, so I can't say. But I doubt it. Kinda hard to have faith in humanity these days, for lots of reasons (including things that like using the word "man" instead of "humanity").
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You've said before that in Golarion, while paladins and inquisitors are often/almost always part of a deity's religion, only clerics require a god from whom to derive their magic.
It isn't hard to imagine what a paladin looks like without a religion, as they at least have their code to adhere to; what does an inquisitor that eschews religion look like?
Then, separately... I read somewhere that in your original setting that eventually became Golarion, Pharasma was originally conceived as LN. What led to changing her alignment to TN for Pathfinder? Did her behavior as a LN pre-Pharasma differ in anyway from how Pharasma has been described in Pathfinder?
The more a class's rules require you to have a deity in order to make build decisions, the more important it is for your character to worship a deity. Paladins don't pick domains or nmake deity-flavored choices, so they can get away with faiths in non-deity things. Clerics and warpriests DO choose domains and gain favored weapon abilities, and therefor they DO have to pick a deity (I'm aware that the core rules say otherwise but I consider that a home-game option for a GM to adopt and wish we said so in print; the concept of a cleric without a deity is a fragment that got left in the game when we were first creating it and were too timid on cutting certain compatibility ties with 3.5). Inquisitors also choose domains, but they have the option to also choose an inquisition so that means they can get away with following a non-deity religion.
But that said... ALL classes who gain divine spells SHOULD be deity worshipers, in my opinion, with the exceptions being relatively rare.
An inquisitor who doesn't worship a deity would still act as a sort of "police" force for her faith and beliefs. THAT'S what an inquisitor needs; faith and conviction in something larger than herself.
Pharasma was originally much more heavily inspired by/influenced by my favorite Greyhawk deity, Wee Jas, who is also lawful neutral. For Golarion, the version of the death deity (in my setting her name is Turthonir) is Neutral to not only distance her more from the character of Wee Jas, but to reflect her being more impartial in Golarion than she is in my setting. She's a lot more inscrutable, less friendly, and kinda scarier in Golarion than in my setting.
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I have a custom race, I'm calling them Hecs for the moment (from hecatonchires). They are like mini hiveminds. Each individual controls 3-6 separate physical bodies with a single mind (though elders can control more, though only in legends has the number been over a dozen).
How would you handle this race in pathfinder in general? Separately, how about in terms of abilities, character advancement, and actions per turn?
Note, I'd only allow use as a pc if all pcs were hecs (or my other race which has much power of it's own).
I wouldn't allow this as a PC at all, since what makes a PC interesting is her individuality. I have NEVER seen a group of gamers in my 35 years of gaming who would be interested in playing the same character as the other players to the extent playing hivemind races would require.
If they were truly hiveminds who had no individuality, I would probably look at the troop rules for them.
If they DO have individuality, I would give them powers that work with each other. The morlocks have an ability like this, as do formians and vrock demons. There's lots of examples out there of monster abilities that work best when they're grouped with others of their own kind.
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Mr. James Jacobs,
I would like your opinion. Would eating the flesh of an invisible stalker be something you could see a neutral aligned spirit of the continent doing?
I have no idea what you mean by "neutral aligned spirit of the continent."
Personally, I think eating the flesh of ANY moderately intelligent creature is pretty unsettling. I don't eat octopus for that reason, and would balk as well at eating ape or monkey. It even kinda unsettles me if I think about it too much eating beef or chicken or salmon.
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In Golarion, Pharasma feels like a synthesis between Wee Jas and Istus (Lady of Fate), from Greyhawk. Was that a thought during her design, or did she just parallel develop that way?
Was Nethys another of your ideas? As neutral gods of magic go, I like him a lot more than Boccob (who came across as too removed/dismissive) and Mystra (who came across as too ubiquitous/meddlesome...).
Do you have any familiarity with the Scarred Lands pantheon? There's some neat parallels to Golarion's Inner Sea gods, such as an angel winged sun goddess of healing and mercy, and a gender-swapping neutral god(dess) of weather (and plenty of differences, as well, such as a traditional female goddess of archery and the hunt, analogous to Ehlonna and Mielikki, as opposed to the very different direction taken with Erastil).
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Hey Mr. Jacobs, I have another question. Almost every reference I can find to the Seven Virtues of Rule, going all the way back to Rise of the Runelords, indicates that they're a purely Thassilonian concept... except that Xin brought them to Thassilon from Azlant, based on a goddess he worshipped in Azlant. Also, City of Seven Spears focuses on an Azlanti ruin that venerates the Virtues pretty hardcore. Could you clarify around what time period and which empire they came from?
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"If they were truly hiveminds who had no individuality,"
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
Each individual mind controls multiple bodies in the same way you control multiple arms. Generally, a major limiting factor of how many bodies an individual controls stems from how well they can multitask (more than one has discovered that controlling more bodies can't make up for not controlling them well). However, each hec has their own personality and desires. Some are warriors while others are scholars or craftsman.
Basically, the mind and the bodies are separate. But it is not like borg where the bodies act like automatons following instinct or commands without direct attention of the mind. Not like that at all.
Each hec perceives with all their bodies just like you perceive with all your eyes, each hec controls all their bodies just like you control all your limbs.
In any case, that is why I am curious how you would handle actions. A hec has one mind and makes each attack and movement consciously, just like you do. They just happen to have more arms to attack with, more legs to move with, and can be in multiple places at once.
P.S. Troops doesn't really work well, firstly because almost no hecs control 10 bodies, much less larger numbers than that, secondly, they would be acting with or against a party of adventurers and not mass combat.
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I'm not an atheist, so I can't say. But I doubt it. Kinda hard to have faith in humanity these days, for lots of reasons (including things that like using the word "man" instead of "humanity").Would you feel differently if you were persnally an atheist? Rahadoum does allow faith... in your fellow man.
So one of reasons for your lack of faith in humanity is English language? ._.
(Well, to be fair, it is much easier to live with language that doesn't have gendered pronouns and where words for "human, man, woman" are "ihminen, mies, nainen" aka sound nothing alike)
Joking about languages aside, do you take much stress from injustices of the world and other stuff like that?
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It was mentioned that the Runelords were meant to represent the best qualities of leadership and then fell to their own vices. Were there ever any "Good" Runelords, ones who represented the virtues as Xin intended?
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James I am converting saltmarsh over to Pathfinder I have given it the qualities Holy site, Prosperous and Notorious. Do you think these match saltmarsh or would you suggest others qualities.
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You've said before that in Golarion, while paladins and inquisitors are often/almost always part of a deity's religion, only clerics require a god from whom to derive their magic.
It isn't hard to imagine what a paladin looks like without a religion, as they at least have their code to adhere to; what does an inquisitor that eschews religion look like?
Then, separately... I read somewhere that in your original setting that eventually became Golarion, Pharasma was originally conceived as LN. What led to changing her alignment to TN for Pathfinder? Did her behavior as a LN pre-Pharasma differ in anyway from how Pharasma has been described in Pathfinder?
The more a class's rules require you to have a deity in order to make build decisions, the more important it is for your character to worship a deity. Paladins don't pick domains or nmake deity-flavored choices, so they can get away with faiths in non-deity things. Clerics and warpriests DO choose domains and gain favored weapon abilities, and therefor they DO have to pick a deity (I'm aware that the core rules say otherwise but I consider that a home-game option for a GM to adopt and wish we said so in print; the concept of a cleric without a deity is a fragment that got left in the game when we were first creating it and were too timid on cutting certain compatibility ties with 3.5). Inquisitors also choose domains, but they have the option to also choose an inquisition so that means they can get away with following a non-deity religion.
But that said... ALL classes who gain divine spells SHOULD be deity worshipers, in my opinion, with the exceptions being relatively rare.
An inquisitor who doesn't worship a deity would still act as a sort of "police" force for her faith and beliefs. THAT'S what an inquisitor needs; faith and conviction in something larger than herself.
Pharasma was originally much more heavily inspired by/influenced by my favorite Greyhawk deity, Wee Jas, who is also lawful neutral. For Golarion,...
James, curious how you feel about the Green Faith? I can easily seem most druids, hunters and rangers worshiping it instead of a deity.
Second question: Which region most resembles pre-1900 Great Plains?
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1. Have you had any characters that you thought would be interesting but ended up being dull with extended play?
2. Are Chromatic and Metallic dragons capable of alignment shifts?
3. Why are the types of Inevitables and Proteans so limited in comparison to other alignment representing outsiders?
4. When is an interesting time to implement an Aeon in a story? I ask this because their neutrality and duality makes it hard for me to view them as a long-term enemy or ally, but I'd hate for them to be just an odd wandering monster. When would a PC be likely to cross one?
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In Golarion, Pharasma feels like a synthesis between Wee Jas and Istus (Lady of Fate), from Greyhawk. Was that a thought during her design, or did she just parallel develop that way?
Was Nethys another of your ideas? As neutral gods of magic go, I like him a lot more than Boccob (who came across as too removed/dismissive) and Mystra (who came across as too ubiquitous/meddlesome...).
Do you have any familiarity with the Scarred Lands pantheon? There's some neat parallels to Golarion's Inner Sea gods, such as an angel winged sun goddess of healing and mercy, and a gender-swapping neutral god(dess) of weather (and plenty of differences, as well, such as a traditional female goddess of archery and the hunt, analogous to Ehlonna and Mielikki, as opposed to the very different direction taken with Erastil).
Pharasma's initial incarnation in my home brew was very much influenced by Wee Jas. I suppose there was some Istus influence there too but that would have been subconscious more or less.
Nethys wasn't from my setting (I have 3 deities of magic there, one for good magic, one for evil magic, and for neutral magic), but I had a lot of influence in setting up Nethys for Golarion.
I'm vaguely familiar with the Scarred Lands, but almost ONLY via the early monster books they put out. I tend to buy bestiaries/monster books regardless of the game system. The parallels don't surprise me, since a lot of what we took for Golarion's deities and what inspired me on my homebrew deities was real-world mythology and religion, which can also inspire other game designers in the same way.
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Hey Mr. Jacobs, I have another question. Almost every reference I can find to the Seven Virtues of Rule, going all the way back to Rise of the Runelords, indicates that they're a purely Thassilonian concept... except that Xin brought them to Thassilon from Azlant, based on a goddess he worshipped in Azlant. Also, City of Seven Spears focuses on an Azlanti ruin that venerates the Virtues pretty hardcore. Could you clarify around what time period and which empire they came from?
They're pretty much from early, pre-Runelord Thassilon, but were a concept back in Azlant as well. So, while they DID exist in Azlant, they weren't really a big deal until Thassilon. I'd have to go back and double check the timing, but I'm pretty sure Savith did her thing after Thassilon was up and running, and may have been inspired by Thassilon.
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"If they were truly hiveminds who had no individuality,"
I'm not sure what you mean by this.
Each individual mind controls multiple bodies in the same way you control multiple arms. Generally, a major limiting factor of how many bodies an individual controls stems from how well they can multitask (more than one has discovered that controlling more bodies can't make up for not controlling them well). However, each hec has their own personality and desires. Some are warriors while others are scholars or craftsman.
Basically, the mind and the bodies are separate. But it is not like borg where the bodies act like automatons following instinct or commands without direct attention of the mind. Not like that at all.
Each hec perceives with all their bodies just like you perceive with all your eyes, each hec controls all their bodies just like you control all your limbs.In any case, that is why I am curious how you would handle actions. A hec has one mind and makes each attack and movement consciously, just like you do. They just happen to have more arms to attack with, more legs to move with, and can be in multiple places at once.
P.S. Troops doesn't really work well, firstly because almost no hecs control 10 bodies, much less larger numbers than that, secondly, they would be acting with or against a party of adventurers and not mass combat.
Sounds like we approach the concept of a hivemind differently. To me, the borg are a perfect example of a hivemind in a human-like race. And wouldn't have their own personalities. That's the whole point of a hivemind; one mind, many bodies. Sounds to me like you're thinking something similar to what we've got with the formians, which isn't the same thing.
As for how I'd handle actions? I'd do it normally, with each hec resolving individually. But honestly I probably wouldn't do this type of race at all, since it sounds a bit too complicated for its own good. I suppose I could figure out a workable way by thinking it over for a while... but that's actual design work, and I don't do that for free on this thread. :P
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I'm not an atheist, so I can't say. But I doubt it. Kinda hard to have faith in humanity these days, for lots of reasons (including things that like using the word "man" instead of "humanity").Would you feel differently if you were persnally an atheist? Rahadoum does allow faith... in your fellow man.
So one of reasons for your lack of faith in humanity is English language? ._.
(Well, to be fair, it is much easier to live with language that doesn't have gendered pronouns and where words for "human, man, woman" are "ihminen, mies, nainen" aka sound nothing alike)
Joking about languages aside, do you take much stress from injustices of the world and other stuff like that?
Not in the slightest. One of my reasons for the lack of faith in humanity is how ingrained masculine assumptions are for so many societies. It's not the fact that one can say "that's how the English language works" that bothers me, its that people DO say that and don't bother to adjust their ways to be more diverse/accepting and use different, more correct words (like "humanity" in place of "man").
And I don't take this topic as a joke at all. That's also part of the problem.
I do get a lot of stress from injustices in the world, yes, but more so when it's aimed at close friends, family, and myself, and less so when it's more distantly removed (although not COMPLETELY less so).
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It was mentioned that the Runelords were meant to represent the best qualities of leadership and then fell to their own vices. Were there ever any "Good" Runelords, ones who represented the virtues as Xin intended?
Nope. The concept of a "runelord" is tied to sin. There were never "good" versions.
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James,
We know now that Earth is part of Golarion's Universe and that the Egyptian Gods are real. My question is, in this fictional version of Earth, is the Abrahamic God a real deity?
That's something I prefer to leave to individual GMs to decide, since as it turns out... that can be a touchy subject.
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James I am converting saltmarsh over to Pathfinder I have given it the qualities Holy site, Prosperous and Notorious. Do you think these match saltmarsh or would you suggest others qualities.
I'd swap out Holy Site for something else. Maybe Rumormongering Citizens? The other two seem fine.
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James, curious how you feel about the Green Faith? I can easily seem most druids, hunters and rangers worshiping it instead of a deity.
Second question: Which region most resembles pre-1900 Great Plains?
I helped create the Green Faith, so I feel pretty good about it. It is indeed the most common religion for druids and rangers and hunters.
There's not really a good analogue for the Great Plains in Avistan... that region is pretty geographically immense/enormous after all.
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Hey James did you know that the word barbarian came from ancient Greece because according to them everybody who didn't speak Greek sounded like, "Bar, bar, bar, bar..."?
That's what I heard back in college from my Medieval Studies professor. Whether or not he was joking or not (he was like that) I've never really done research to confirm or deny, but I do like the sound of the story enough that I never bothered to verify.
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1. Have you had any characters that you thought would be interesting but ended up being dull with extended play?
2. Are Chromatic and Metallic dragons capable of alignment shifts?
3. Why are the types of Inevitables and Proteans so limited in comparison to other alignment representing outsiders?
4. When is an interesting time to implement an Aeon in a story? I ask this because their neutrality and duality makes it hard for me to view them as a long-term enemy or ally, but I'd hate for them to be just an odd wandering monster. When would a PC be likely to cross one?
1) Not really.
2) Yes.
3) They're not. We just haven't spent the time and resources and energy to invent more yet. Mostly because most of us here at Paizo who are involved with monster stats tend to get more passionate about other types of outsiders. We've done several more proteans in Hell's Rebels though. Not sure we'll do much more with inevitables though, sine we can only use them due to the SRD and spending time adding flavor to something WotC owns appeals to me MUCH less than spending the same time adding flavor to something we own (like proteans) or that is based on actual mythology (like demons).
4) Each aeon has built into its description the duality it represents. When a PC or an area or an encounter has that stuff warped, that's a good time for an aeon. Or just have a spellcaster conjure one.
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Hey James,
Are you watching Stranger Things on Netflix? If so what do you think about it?
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Has Pharasma always judged souls? Or did she assume that role at some point in the distant past?
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Sounds like we approach the concept of a hivemind differently. To me, the borg are a perfect example of a hivemind in a human-like race. And wouldn't have their own personalities. That's the whole point of a hivemind; one mind, many bodies. Sounds to me like you're thinking something similar to what we've got with the formians, which isn't the same thing.
I think a particular sticking point is that both borg and formains have massive populations linked together, whereas my hecs are small groups like a squad or smaller that are completely disconnected from other groups.
I think a good way to describe them them is like a single puppeteer controling multiple puppets, akin to the puppeteers in Naruto. There is no mind on the part of the puppets, but the puppeteer also has limits to how many puppets they can control, and how well they can control them.
It is a bit of a perversion of the hivemind concept, but I tend to bend concepts till they break.
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Hey James,
Are you watching Stranger Things on Netflix? If so what do you think about it?
Just finished watching it yesterday. Loved it. There's an ASTOUNDING number of cool callbacks to 80s horror, from the font used for the title being the same as most of Stephen King's book titles to the fact that many of the characters had Iconic horror movie names. Or more, in some cases; Nancy looked kinda like Nancy from Nightmare on Elm Street, for example.
But yeah... great show! Loved it!!!!
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Hey James,
Are you watching Stranger Things on Netflix? If so what do you think about it?
Just finished watching it yesterday. Loved it. There's an ASTOUNDING number of cool callbacks to 80s horror, from the font used for the title being the same as most of Stephen King's book titles to the fact that many of the characters had Iconic horror movie names. Or more, in some cases; Nancy looked kinda like Nancy from Nightmare on Elm Street, for example.
But yeah... great show! Loved it!!!!
Yeah I have to agree plus all the D&D references.
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What is a do-maru set of armor made from? Metal? Leather? Ultimate Equipment isn't exactly clear on the subject...It's a real thing from the real world. Head over to Wikipedia and search for "do-maru" for the scoop. Or just click.
Okay...from what it says the answer's essentially "Both."
So if you wanna make one using special materials, do you make it out of special metals (like mithral) or special leathers (like darkleaf cloth), since it obviously can't be made out of both?
Also on an unrelated note: what fiends would a House Thrune-aligned Blackfire Adept make pacts with besides the obvious devils? Asuras, even though they seem more Vudran? Kytons, whose schtick was that they were too much even for Hell to contain? I suspect that, while there's no Blood War, House Thrune would probably frown on one of their agents using demons or daemons to do their dirty work...
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Has Pharasma always judged souls? Or did she assume that role at some point in the distant past?It's always been her.
Cheers.
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Have you seen RWBY?
Have you read Drowtales yet?
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So uh, is it just me, or is it really disturbing to have sapient monsters in zoo or arena fights in pathfinder?
Like, in Murder's Mark, I think there is Manticore in freak show that doesn't seem to be particularly happy about that and comic bonus stuff for Serpent's Run has Gray Render(okay they have int 3, but that was still above animal intelligence iirc and they have language they understand) among possible monster fights.
So umm, what is general population's opinion on such stuff? <_< Does it depend on whether population is good or neutral?
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What is Cevil "Redwing" Charms' book Eidolon about? I'm getting close to starting up the final chapter of Rise of the Runelords, and the book gets mentioned in it. I suspect it's a gazetteer about Varisia written by that Pathfinder after his travels across it, but the only references I've found to it are in the original Runelords Player's Guide, and the intro to Spires of Xin-Shalast. I also suspect it goes into Thassilonian ruins that he explored during his travels to some length, which would explain why Brodert Quink has a copy.
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Since Pharasma is popular currently, here's another.
You, real life James "the Tyrannosaur" Jacobs, are being judged based solely how you've treated the interns at Paizo. What is your fate? :P
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Hey James,
Are you watching Stranger Things on Netflix? If so what do you think about it?
Just finished watching it yesterday. Loved it. There's an ASTOUNDING number of cool callbacks to 80s horror, from the font used for the title being the same as most of Stephen King's book titles to the fact that many of the characters had Iconic horror movie names. Or more, in some cases; Nancy looked kinda like Nancy from Nightmare on Elm Street, for example.
But yeah... great show! Loved it!!!!
Have you thought of reaching out to the Duffer Brothers to Pathfinder-inspire them for Season 2? :)
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Hi James
If a succubus lured someone willingly into an "act of passion" that takes longer than one round how often would her energy drain trigger? Would it be once per round or would it only be once because allthough lasting several round it's technically only one "act of passion"
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Prolly should spoiler that, bro.
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Hi James
If a succubus lured someone willingly into an "act of passion" that takes longer than one round how often would her energy drain trigger? Would it be once per round or would it only be once because allthough lasting several round it's technically only one "act of passion"
I prefer my acts of passion to last longer than six seconds.
Have you played Welcome to the Game?