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Is a Pathfinder RPG computer game even possible?


Video Games

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Jeremiziah wrote:
Bioware, please!

Please not! I might be the minority, but I don't consider their games to be RPGs. They're usually squad-level real-time strategy games with many RPG elements and a strong story, but the only game that really captured the RPG feeling for me was NWN - and they messed up the sequel (or let others mess it up).

Something like Deus Ex (the first one, not the sequel) or Vampire Bloodlines would be fun, too.


Jeremiziah wrote:

Never say never, dudes. Anything's possible. Look at the Call Of Duty/Activision situation. What if some guys from Bioware set off to create their own studio? Who knows what happens? Never say never.

Kingmaker would be a beeyotch to code, but these are guys who make their bread off of coding things that are a beeyotch to code. Nothing new there for them.

In summary, never say never.

"Coding" is not the problem. Implementation is. It is quite literally impossible to make a game that makes every possible action thought up by the players performable and account for all those actions in the game world.

KaeYoss wrote:
Jeremiziah wrote:
Bioware, please!

Please not! I might be the minority, but I don't consider their games to be RPGs. They're usually squad-level real-time strategy games with many RPG elements and a strong story, but the only game that really captured the RPG feeling for me was NWN - and they messed up the sequel (or let others mess it up).

Bioware neither made the sequel nor has the rights to the Neverwinter Nights/D&D/Forgotten Realms license. What are you gibbering about? What the hell is a "squad-level RTS with RPG elements"?


BenignFacist wrote:


Give us a tool box - let us make our own game/campaign. NPC editors, a scripting system any ole' Joe can use while drunk, map editor, terrain editor, diety editor etc etc

I don't want to play through someone elses's idea of fun. I'm far too disfunctional...

*epic eye rolling*

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
KaeYoss wrote:

Something like Deus Ex (the first one, not the sequel) or Vampire Bloodlines would be fun, too.

Ohh, yeah! The Troika team should get back together to work on it!

-Now excuse me, I'm going to reinstall Bloodlines... again.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Morgen wrote:

Does this cover things like fan made mods for games? I'm sure some enterprising fans would/could/have/should(?) worked out ways to build the Pathfinder setting into games like Neverwinter Nights or an Elder Scrolls game. Is that something that is permissible under all these licenses, is that fair use, or is that against policy as far as anyone without a law degree knows? Obviously assuming they don't take any claim for the setting since we know that'd be wrong right off the bat.

A for instance being: a group of friends spends a few months converting the Council of Thieves adventure path into a mod for Half Life (just to be random).

That would NOT be legal. People may well do it, but it would not be legal. All fan works are in fact technically illegal as the fans in question do not have the right to work with the intellectual property (IP) in question. Simply, usually many companies turn a blind eye to fan works (be they video game mods or fan fiction or fan art)--as long as the fans are not earning a profit for it--because it ultimately helps keep fans interested and help the fandom grow. But those same companies have every right to issue a cease and desist order to those fans if they really wanted to.

The NWN Diablo module? Illegal. The NWN Zork module? Illegal. The NWN Pool of Radiance Modules? Illegal. They still exist, because Blizzard, InfoCom, and whoever the heck holds the rights to Pool of Radiance these days (probably still SSI, even though they don't exist) didn't bother to stop them from being made.

You CAN legally program the RULES (not the campaign setting) into something like NWN because you can't trademark/copyright/claim as IP a mathematical algorithm. (AFAIK, and IANAL) The other stuff with the basic rules of the game would be protected by the OGL.

You cannot use the IDEAS represented in the Golarion setting, because expressed ideas ARE intellectual property. You can't use the Pathfinder Trademark, because you do not own or are licensed to use that trademark. You may well go about recreating Crypt of the Everflame in NWN2 (which would be a fun exercise to practice using the toolset) but Paizo could C&D your pants off if they wanted to.


KaeYoss wrote:
Jeremiziah wrote:
Bioware, please!

Please not! I might be the minority, but I don't consider their games to be RPGs. They're usually squad-level real-time strategy games with many RPG elements and a strong story, but the only game that really captured the RPG feeling for me was NWN - and they messed up the sequel (or let others mess it up).

Well, Fallout 2 was astonishing for me - not for the graphics or the game interface (Baldur's Gate 1 was of the same period and was extremely more advanced on that), but for the 'sandbox' feeling and the role opportunities.

Spoiler:

I still remember my female slaver which had some unique dialogue choices (like speaking with Myron of the 'annoying wasting of human resources (aka slaves) for making successful tests with Jet'), or the forced wedding in Modoc with either Devon or Myria when caught by their father in their room doing 'naughty things'... especially if you ended being forced to marry the one of the same gender of your character! (the final sentence of the priest in Modoc during the wedding "you may now kiss your... uh... your 'significant other'." was priceless), or lots of other situations where two different characters had two different ways to solve a situation (for example, infiltration in Navarro could be done either by stealth in a 'Metal Gear' style from a secret access, with a high bluff at the doors of the complex, or with blazing guns killing everything that moved - the hardest way, but also extremely appealing).

And how can I forget playing a mentally retarded character (whose dialogues were only 'Uh...' or 'Gah...') only to find out that when speaking with Torr in Klamath (the dimwit of the town, who spoke like a 2-year-old child) you actually could formulate complex sentences and you could have a real dialogue with him (in a 'Look who's talking too' style)!

KaeYoss wrote:


Something like Deus Ex (the first one, not the sequel) or Vampire Bloodlines would be fun, too.

Vampire: Bloodlines was a great game, I concur with you, although sadly plagued by bugs (luckily unofficial patches fixed most of them).

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Wraith wrote:


Well, Fallout 2 was astonishing for me - not for the graphics or the game interface (Baldur's Gate 1 was of the same period and was extremely more advanced on that), but for the 'sandbox' feeling and the role opportunities.

OT

Spoiler:

Fallout 2 wasn't made by Bioware. :) It was made by Black Isle, whose primary masterminds now run Obsidian Entertainment.

The confusing part is Black Isle was Interplay's RPG development house. THEY hired Bioware to make the Baldur's Gate series. So Baldur's Gate is a "Black Isle/Bioware" production, with Black Isle being the Publishers and Bioware being the devs.

But Fallout 1 and 2 were both published AND developed by Black Isle, as was Planescape Torment.

The incestuousity between the two continued, as while Atari hired Bioware to make Neverwinter Nights, they hired Obsidian (Black Isle's successors) to make Neverwinter Nights 2, and likewise while Bioware developed Knights of the Old Republic, Obsidian made Knights of the Old Republic 2. In both of these cases, I think this came about because Bioware was trying to get out of doing licensed RPGs, and recommended Obsidian to replace them as they had worked closely together in the past, when Obsidian was Black Isle.

Fully confused now? Then I have accomplished my goal. :)

But in the end Bioware and Black Isle/Obsidian are two different development companies who just have a lot of shared history.


Just make sure there's Co-op! It's fun to play RPGs, but its funner to play them with friends!


DeathQuaker wrote:
The Wraith wrote:


Well, Fallout 2 was astonishing for me - not for the graphics or the game interface (Baldur's Gate 1 was of the same period and was extremely more advanced on that), but for the 'sandbox' feeling and the role opportunities.

OT

** spoiler omitted **

Aaah, I see. Now I understand.

Spoiler:

I've just noticed on the Wiki that the Icewind Dale series was directly developed by Black Isle and not by Bioware, too.
Which is a bit strange for me, due to the fact that I loved Fallout 1 and 2 and Planescape: Torment, but I was not impressed too much by IWD 1 and 2...


RunebladeX wrote:
i don't think kingmaker would be hard to code at all. If anything building a city/town would be a mini game of sorts.

I wasn't referring to the town building. I was referring to the fact that the adventure scales all the way from "level 1 party exploring the wilderness entirely of their own free will" to "level 15+ party ruling a kingdom and waging war on other kingdoms". As a video game designer and programmer myself, it would NOT be easy to design or to code.


It would be easier to develop if they kept the level distinctions and environment segmented, i.e. at the lower levels you could have a few followers, but not be able to interact with the environment much. However, when you reach the highest levels, you get into kingdom making and all its glory, including interacting with the environment ala original warcraft. I believe if the kingdom building is saved for last, then any issue with character balance is already addressed because you are at the highest level and therefore you move on to the external environment and NPC interaction. However, it if is built in from the ground up it would be very hard to keep everything in tact with so many different variables.


Uchawi wrote:
It would be easier to develop if they kept the level distinctions and environment segmented, i.e. at the lower levels you could have a few followers, but not be able to interact with the environment much. However, when you reach the highest levels, you get into kingdom making and all its glory, including interacting with the environment ala original warcraft. I believe if the kingdom building is saved for last, then any issue with character balance is already addressed because you are at the highest level and therefore you move on to the external environment and NPC interaction. However, it if is built in from the ground up it would be very hard to keep everything in tact with so many different variables.

Yeah, not that great. See: Spore

Sovereign Court

What I'd really like to see is some kind of computer rpging that is meant as a hybrid between tabletop and the computer.

The idea would be that the computer program would run some basic scenarios and encounters, all turn based like good old school computer gaming, such as Hack, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, etc.

But it would be easy for the GM to construct modules for players to play in. Just make, say the dungeon, seed with monsters and treasure, type in the flavor text, and then it gets bundled up as it's own independent module.

The key thing is that it would be a way for a GM to provide supplemental adventures to players.

Say someone wants to do some solo work, or you want players to learn about some element in your world in a more narrative manner. You could cook up the module, have it run on the web, and send the player the link.

The player would then play the module, and the GM would get a report of the results of the module. What they found out, treasure gained, xp gained, etc.

Having a program like this to help supplement a campaign would be a big help is so many ways, from difficult social schedules, to solos, or even a great way to have an intro to the campaign, where you don't want the players to start at level one, but still have a history develop before everyone sits down at the table.


deinol wrote:

To use the word "Pathfinder" in the marketing and labeling of your product will require some sort of license (like the compatibility license) from Paizo itself. That would probably be easy enough to arrange.

To license any elements of the Golarian world definitely require a special license from Paizo. If you are a proven publisher I'm sure they would love to hear from you.

I can just imagine it

[Paizo] "You can use our name, and our campaign setting, under one condition..."

[Developer] *nervous* "Uh .... which is?"

[Paizo] "You make a game that doesn't suck."


Mok wrote:

What I'd really like to see is some kind of computer rpging that is meant as a hybrid between tabletop and the computer.

The idea would be that the computer program would run some basic scenarios and encounters, all turn based like good old school computer gaming, such as Hack, Wizardry, Bard's Tale, etc.

But it would be easy for the GM to construct modules for players to play in. Just make, say the dungeon, seed with monsters and treasure, type in the flavor text, and then it gets bundled up as it's own independent module.

The key thing is that it would be a way for a GM to provide supplemental adventures to players.

You are still limited by what is programmed into the, well, program to accept. That's the ENTIRE problem with converting PnP to software.

Sovereign Court

Cartigan wrote:


You are still limited by what is programmed into the, well, program to accept. That's the ENTIRE problem with converting PnP to software.

True. But it is meant to be supplemental, not replace the tabletop campaign.

I suppose if the player is a fanatic about sandbox immersionism then it won't go over well, but not everyone is like that. I could easily see my group of players accepting the limitations of the computer experience, particularly if it means they can game more often with their character.

I see it more in the situation of a player who keeps bugging you that they want to find some super awesome magic item, but you guys just can't seem to line up your schedules for whatever reason.

So you take this program, cook up a dungeon, place the super awesome magic item at the end of it, dump lots of challenges between the magic item and the entrance, and then fire it off to the player. Obviously a good GM would dress the whole situation up with some creative flavor text and make sure the context of this hybrid adventure fit into the campaign, but that isn't hard to do. As the GM you can even insert some clues for other things that will happen at the table later on the campaign.

So, yeah, I wouldn't want to run a whole campaign with this program, but it could be a great way to supplement other aspects of the campaign.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Mok, you're pretty much describing Neverwinter Nights there.

In fact a there's been a couple posters that have said, "Give us a tool set and an engine and we'll do the rest!" Which is also Neverwinter Nights (sans the campaign it ships with).

To be fair, NWN as a DM's tool I don't think did as well as it could have. But that's what it was originally designed to do (as well as be a single player game) -- DM can make a module, players can log in, people can run through the dungeon the GM designed (and DM can react as need be). I think the original NWN did better with this than NWN2 (They had a lot of multiplayer issues at first).

But something like a more user-friendly NWN, sans IP and updated to use Pathfinder rules? That could be feasible with competent developers.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

DeathQuaker wrote:
Morgen wrote:

Does this cover things like fan made mods for games? I'm sure some enterprising fans would/could/have/should(?) worked out ways to build the Pathfinder setting into games like Neverwinter Nights or an Elder Scrolls game. Is that something that is permissible under all these licenses, is that fair use, or is that against policy as far as anyone without a law degree knows? Obviously assuming they don't take any claim for the setting since we know that'd be wrong right off the bat.

A for instance being: a group of friends spends a few months converting the Council of Thieves adventure path into a mod for Half Life (just to be random).

That would NOT be legal. People may well do it, but it would not be legal. All fan works are in fact technically illegal as the fans in question do not have the right to work with the intellectual property (IP) in question. ...

You cannot use the IDEAS represented in the Golarion setting, because expressed ideas ARE intellectual property. You can't use the Pathfinder Trademark, because you do not own or are licensed to use that...

Normally, you'd be right... but we've created a Community Use Policy that allows people to legally do some of that.

Non-commercial users could potentially follow our policy and thus gain access to use some of our trademarks, proper names, locations and characters to create their *own* story mod set in Golarion (assuming that was also allowable under the software publisher's rules)... but the CUP specifically does *not* allow you to use our dialogue, plots, storylines, language, or incidents, or most of our art and cartography, so you can't actually reproduce Council of Thieves. (We're reserving that sort of thing for potential future licensees.)


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Cartigan wrote:
BenignFacist wrote:


Give us a tool box - let us make our own game/campaign. NPC editors, a scripting system any ole' Joe can use while drunk, map editor, terrain editor, diety editor etc etc

I don't want to play through someone elses's idea of fun. I'm far too disfunctional...

*epic eye rolling*

*shakes fist*

Aaaaaaw come on :D How many programmers are wannabe game designers, heeeell, how many developers in general are wannabe movie makers!?

It breaks my heart *-*

Just give us a flexibile, resilient tool set and the option to mod the bejeesus outta it! :D

It annoys me how many developers are appaled by the idea of knocking out a package which could essentially be a simplified/streamlined version of what is done on a daily basis.

I mean, credit where credit is due but technical competence doesn't equate to story crafting/genuine *game* creating.

Bah. Nevermind, just bitter at seeing the industry slowly poison itself.

DeathQuaker wrote:

Mok, you're pretty much describing Neverwinter Nights there.

It was a start but how much was learnt? You'd have a hard time getting the publisher to go for it now-a-days, they want gaurantees on a return and the only sure-fire way to convince them is with previous success, which results in rehashing old concepts/tricks.

Sovereign Court

DeathQuaker wrote:
Mok, you're pretty much describing Neverwinter Nights there.

Yeah, when NWN came out I eagerly snapped it up with the plan to play with old friends.

At the time at least what I wanted was something that was more freeform, being able to run a game in freetime. Unfortunately it wasn't set up that way, at least robustly. Someone made some kind of "DM wand" to be able to manage games better, but I found the overall game was so focused on scripting everything, which I knew nothing of, that it never took hold for me.

All the 3d stuff isn't necessary for myself, I'd be happy with sprites, or even do away with graphics and go Zork style and let the imagination run wild. I remember being utterly captivated as a kind with Hack. Seeing some capital letter come walking into the room was far more dramatic than the best Xbox 360 graphics I see now.


Yeah I wish they took the NWN framework but made it turn-based like the old gold box games, and even stringing battles/skirmishes together on a world map with nodes like FF Tactics does, would be awesome - and make sure to allow 3D spaces and mounted combat (like FF Tactics)... imagine being able to fly around on a griffon in battle and rain arrows on your enemies in full turn-based tactical glory!

A basic campaign would be a map like the Kingmaker campaign with a bunch of nodes that players can explore, but adding a kit that let's people upload their own maps, generate nodes and add in scripted battles and random battles... even on that level I think it would be extremely entertaining.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Personally i think the idea of a kingmaker game would also be both awesome, and doable. If anyone other then myself has ever played the old Birthright game you will remember it actually did a rather decent job of both large scale combat, dungeon combat, and a better then average job indeed of the whole kingdom management setting (just having the computer make the rolls for you when a lot was required was nice to).

Something like that, fully updated. especially if looked at maybe in a form of Spore type evolution(smaller map to explore to start, when your kingdom gets larger then you evolve to the next "age" or bigger hexes to claim and areas to explore. eventually civ like running into the other kingdoms and so on.

Of course the hard part is determining when you've "won", but setting goals like certain amount of economy, size, or exploration, or even the popular total dominaton... helped along by items found in dungeons or random event crawls... it sounds like it could be a tremendous amount of fun, and if there is some way to randomize the maps generated it would be nearly endless replayability...

Of course merely limiting such a game to the scope of the kingmaker original campaign? also amazingly awesome, just switch a few things up and put in some awesome cutscenes when certain events happen. Personally i could see a lot of ways this level of awesome could benefit both paizo and a game company. However given the resources involved in creating something like that, especially making it truely awesome and not buggy as all hell? Not something i imagine we will see anytime in the near future, though i can still hope!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've been thinking of this for quite a while. I was wondering if I ever got the chance to do this in my course I would suggest making this game, but there is the licencing involved.

I would personally like the battle system to be similar to games like Final Fantasy Tactics, but only for movement and range of abilities, ect. A squared grid where you could turn the grids on and off. Perhaps like some pathfinder offical stuff like Hero Lab there could be free DLC for it or if they want to cash in like all video game companies then it could be all the core races and classes, paying DLC for APG classes and other races.

I'm just thinking on the scale of console/PC game, not a MMO like DDO.

There would have to be a solid story though, something like either based on a Adventure Path or something unique like Baldur's Gate, Dark Alliance 1 & 2, Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone, Neverwinter Nights and the list goes on.

I could see Kingmaker being a succesful RPG, problem is the amount of solutions that can be done pen and paper cannot be programmed into a game. My experience is there is always someone a player will think up that the DM will never expect. Mechanically it would be very successful, especially if it was eposodic. The Kingdom building rules might be easy enough to impliment too.

Having said about the roleplay perspective the game "The Temple of Elemental Evil" had very complex programming in that reguard and in spells, though that game was incredibly buggy, yet I did end up with a hill giant joining me because he begged for his life yet no one in the shops would do business in here because of him...

Sovereign Court Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Anyone ever play "Act raiser" on the SNES? That seems kingmaker -ish maybe take that idea and expand?


I think it's worth noting that similar discussions have been held about other systems on other forums. The bottom line is, you can't copyright game mechanics, you can only copyright the text used to explain them. Anyone can create a game using any sort of mechanics they like, and as long as they use their own text to describe the game, it's fine. That goes for computer games too.

You don't see too much of that nowadays because of marketing, which I'll get to in a second, but back in the 80s you saw that all the time with computer games. There were a bunch of computer RPGs in the 80s that basically used the AD&D system, but were not official licensed AD&D products. They simply used their own settings and their own version of the game mechanics and never claimed to be associated with AD&D. The most classic example of this is the old Bard's Tale series.

Having a game be part of the OGL, more than anything, is, or at least was, an instant marketing tool. It was a way to let people know that their game was largely compatible with other OGL games, and it was a way to easily associate their game with D&D and get some marketing from that angle.

If a game or computer game wanted to use a d20-style system without being part of the OGL they certainly could, but then they also couldn't make any references to the OGL or D&D or the d20 system, so they wouldn't get that free marketing boost.

Of course when Wizards created the OGL that was also to help them out too. It encouraged more people to play D&D and it encouraged more publishers to write books for D&D now that they didn't need the express consent of Wizards... they could write their book, slap OGL on it and reference d20 and people would know it was compatible with D&D and use it in their campaigns if they wanted.

Star Voter 2013

I personally would love to see a Gold Box-style game using the Pathfinder rules and set in Golarion. Preferably with Unlimited Adventures-style customization functionality included.

I, of course, have no idea if that would be remotely commercially viable.


It actually would be commercially viable if it was done with a small team and little expense, and sold exclusively online as a download. There is a market for such things... I for one would buy it too... but it's a smaller market. Basically, they'd have to treat the development and publishing of the game like an indie game developer would.


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Fergie wrote:

I think the closest game to the 3.5 ruleset that has been released is Temple Of Elemental Evil by Atari.

What a total abortion of a game!

It could have been great, but was so buggy as to be unplayable.

I have heard that some folks (Circle of 8?) have made all kinds of patches, but I can't even load the game because the original disc has some sort of copy protection that makes it think it is a pirated copy.

A total shame because it sticks very closely to the 3.5 rules.

I got this a while back. The patches work well, but the main bug is the CD check itself. In all honesty, removing the CD check fixes most if not all bugs.

On that note I would love to see that interface on a pathfinder ruleset. Once it is working, the game is great fun.


I think a game like Mount & Blade would be similar to how a Kingmaker game could work just with more than just battles but actual instances, encounters etc. As far as how it would work with the OF rule set I am not sure and I cannot imagine Joe magic could work but it would be a great game if it could work!


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Temple of elemental evil was the best after fixes. All the Elements of 3.5 were incorporated and used how they were meant to.
There was no real-time excuse to change the rules and break a game like every other PC DND game to date.

Paizo Employee Webstore Gninja Minion , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Moved thread.


So, when are we going to see a top-down, isometric, turn-based and Pathfinder RPG ruleset-based RPG set in the world of Golarion on Kickstarter? The success of Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns in terms of fan-funding proves that there's a market for such games. I would gladly pledge 60$ for a project like this, as long as the devs making it have a decent pedigree.

The game could be based on an AP or an original adventure, I don't really care. (;

They could even go the way of Hero Lab and sell DLCs that add the classes, feats and spells of the APG to the core game.

They could also go the way of Blizzard (with StarCraft II) and sell each book of an AP as individual DLCs.

Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
The Wraith wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
The Wraith wrote:


Well, Fallout 2 was astonishing for me - not for the graphics or the game interface (Baldur's Gate 1 was of the same period and was extremely more advanced on that), but for the 'sandbox' feeling and the role opportunities.

OT

** spoiler omitted **

Aaah, I see. Now I understand.

** spoiler omitted **

I'm looking forward to out Wasteland 2 on kickstarter now. It has a lot of the old team from Fallout and Planescape:Torment.

Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Maerimydra wrote:

So, when are we going to see a top-down, isometric, turn-based and Pathfinder RPG ruleset-based RPG set in the world of Golarion on Kickstarter? The success of Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns in terms of fan-funding proves that there's a market for such games. I would gladly pledge 60$ for a project like this, as long as the devs making it have a decent pedigree.

The game could be based on an AP or an original adventure, I don't really care. (;

They could even go the way of Hero Lab and sell DLCs that add the classes, feats and spells of the APG to the core game.

They could also go the way of Blizzard (with StarCraft II) and sell each book of an AP as individual DLCs.

First, they would need to get a development team interested. I have no doubt that Pathfinder could raise the funds on kickstarter, but if the team they get isn't solid then I'm not sure I would want to see the game.

And right now a lot of the people I would want to see involved are working on kickstarter projects :)


Caineach wrote:
Maerimydra wrote:

So, when are we going to see a top-down, isometric, turn-based and Pathfinder RPG ruleset-based RPG set in the world of Golarion on Kickstarter? The success of Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns in terms of fan-funding proves that there's a market for such games. I would gladly pledge 60$ for a project like this, as long as the devs making it have a decent pedigree.

The game could be based on an AP or an original adventure, I don't really care. (;

They could even go the way of Hero Lab and sell DLCs that add the classes, feats and spells of the APG to the core game.

They could also go the way of Blizzard (with StarCraft II) and sell each book of an AP as individual DLCs.

First, they would need to get a development team interested. I have no doubt that Pathfinder could raise the funds on kickstarter, but if the team they get isn't solid then I'm not sure I would want to see the game.

And right now a lot of the people I would want to see involved are working on kickstarter projects :)

True! Beside, too much similar games announced on Kickstarter in a short period of time means less funding for each of those games. Old school gamers don't have infinite money for backing projects, after all. :)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Maerimydra wrote:
So, when are we going to see a ... Pathfinder RPG ruleset-based RPG...

Certain clauses in the OGL make it unclear that you ever will be able to see such a thing.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Maerimydra wrote:
So, when are we going to see a ... Pathfinder RPG ruleset-based RPG...
Certain clauses in the OGL make it unclear that you ever will be able to see such a thing.

Q_Q

Shadow Lodge

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-technology -demo

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Pathfinder's Paper and Dice machanics are based on turn-based play. In the Computer RPG world however, the market for games that run like Bard's Tale peaked a couple of decades ago.

Games like NeverWinter Nights are built on creating the flavor of D&D and the Forgotten Realms, but the mechanics are purely their own.


NWN still uses pen and paper rules, using turn based rounds with flanking, attacks of opertunity, etc. You can even watch the dice rolls and messages at the bottom of the screen. The difference between it and the older games are that the rounds are automatic from one to the next, unless the player pauses the game to do something different from the default attack.


LazarX wrote:
Pathfinder's Paper and Dice machanics are based on turn-based play. In the Computer RPG world however, the market for games that run like Bard's Tale peaked a couple of decades ago.

Luckily, Kickstarter is there to bring those kind of games back!

LazarX wrote:
Games like NeverWinter Nights are built on creating the flavor of D&D and the Forgotten Realms, but the mechanics are purely their own.

Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games capture the flavor of the Forgotten Realms. Neverwinter Nights games make the Forgotten Realms look silly. I bought the first NWN on GOG and I didn't finish it. The game is a cakewalk even with an unoptimised character (bad guys can't hit me), the Open Lock skill is utterly useless (you can just bash things without losing anything, unlike KotOR) and the story is laughable. NWN might be a good online game, but the official single player campaing is a joke.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

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Maerimydra wrote:


Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games capture the flavor of the Forgotten Realms. Neverwinter Nights games make the Forgotten Realms look silly. I bought the first NWN on GOG and I didn't finish it. The game is a cakewalk even with an unoptimised character (bad guys can't hit me), the Open Lock skill is utterly useless (you can just bash things without losing anything, unlike KotOR) and the story is laughable. NWN might be a good online game, but the official single player campaing is a joke.

Did you get the whole Diamond Edition of NWN? If so, I suggest loading up Hordes of the Underdark -- it is way, way, way, way better than the OC. It starts you in Waterdeep and takes you through Undermountain to the Underdark--and then to the Outer Planes. Story is way better, difficulty is higher, companions more interesting, etc.

There's also Shadows of Undrentide of course, which if you play you should play before Hordes of the Underdark as technically the hero of both stories is the same (the OC "Hero of Neverwinter" is NOT supposed to be the same character), which I think is also better in terms of build and difficulty, but I found generally more boring.

A lot of the premium content (what they used to call DLC back when it was a brand shiny new thing) is also quite good -- Wyvern Crown of Cormyr particularly stood out to me; Pirates of the Sword Coast was good but short. Kingmaker was buggy but an interesting premise.

And then of course part of the whole thing with NWN and NWN2 is you can download player-made content. I recall a remake of Pool of Radiance (the original Gold Box game) that a fan made in NWN which was phenomenal.

NWN2 is also I think a better treatment of the Forgotten Realms world, and the Mask of the Betrayer expansion is hands down one of the best single player RPG stories I've played through. I rank it close to Torment (and it's written by the same people). Mind, NWN2 has a crappy camera and some other engine clunkiness but personally I still found it worth overcoming its flaws to play MoTB in particular.

Now, the NWN2 OC... well, I think it's better than the NWN OC. But then, a lot of things are better than the NWN OC. But the NWN2 OC has about 10-15 hours worth of filler in the middle when you get to Neverwinter which is an utterly frustrating and boring slog. If you can make it, once you get to the part where you have your own stronghold it starts getting considerably better.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Stuff.

Ok, thank you for the information. I played NWN2 and all its expansions before playing NWN, and I did find MotB interesting story-wise, but the challenge was not there and epic-levels gameplay is mewh. SoZ had the challenge, but the story was not there. The OC had a good beginning, but became ridiculous from mid-game to the ending IMO.

I have bought NWN Diamond Edition, so maybe I'll try the expansions after finishing the OC, if you truly believe they are worth it, but for now I'm playing D3. :P

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Maerimydra wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
Stuff.

Ok, thank you for the information. I played NWN2 and all its expansions before playing NWN, and I did find MotB interesting story-wise, but the challenge was not there and epic-levels gameplay is mewh. SoZ had the challenge, but the story was not there. The OC had a good beginning, but became ridiculous from mid-game to the ending IMO.

I have bought NWN Diamond Edition, so maybe I'll try the expansions after finishing the OC, if you truly believe they are worth it, but for now I'm playing D3. :P

Never got around to SOZ for NWN2. I think the epic gameplay in MotB is very much to individuals' liking or no.

For NWN, I honestly wouldn't even bother with finishing the OC, if you're not enjoying it. Just skip straight to SotU and HotD.

Enjoy D3!

Shadow Lodge Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Seconding the mehness for NWN original and seconding the love for SoU and HotD. Never finished the first myself but played the others (HotU picks up right after the end of SoU, and assumes your character is the same one from SoU in the storyline) several times.

Spoiler:
The characters that return from the first game (all the companions except Boddyknock and Grimgnaw, and Aribeth) don't even require you to have played to the end of the original to understand how they got where they are now - they either fill you in themselves, or the game gives you enough context to figure it out on your own.
All that said, the main allure of the game is indeed the online play, and indeed if I was the one calling the shots on a Pathfinder game that would be where I would like it to go: make an interesting single-player campaign yes, but also give players the tools to make their own campaigns, persistent worlds, and the like. I loved that about NWN and it disappoints me that first no other game has tried it save NWN2, and second that NWN2's toolset was so shoddy in most places and ridiculously difficult to use in others.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Maerimydra wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
Stuff.

Ok, thank you for the information. I played NWN2 and all its expansions before playing NWN, and I did find MotB interesting story-wise, but the challenge was not there and epic-levels gameplay is mewh. SoZ had the challenge, but the story was not there. The OC had a good beginning, but became ridiculous from mid-game to the ending IMO.

I have bought NWN Diamond Edition, so maybe I'll try the expansions after finishing the OC, if you truly believe they are worth it, but for now I'm playing D3. :P

Never got around to SOZ for NWN2. I think the epic gameplay in MotB is very much to individuals' liking or no.

For NWN, I honestly wouldn't even bother with finishing the OC, if you're not enjoying it. Just skip straight to SotU and HotD.

Enjoy D3!

OK, I just finished the part in Luskan and now I'm at the beginning of a new chapter where I have to find the "words of power". Is it near the end of the game? If it's almost the end of the game, I'll try to finish the OC, if not, I won't bother.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Orthos wrote:
that said, the main allure of the game is indeed the online play, and indeed if I was the one calling the shots on a Pathfinder game that would be where I would like it to go: make an interesting single-player campaign yes, but also give players the tools to make their own campaigns, persistent worlds, and the like. I loved that about NWN and it disappoints me that first no other game has tried it save NWN2, and second that NWN2's toolset was so shoddy in most places and ridiculously difficult to use in others.

I have never played NWN online personally and never planned to, and still got probably hundreds of hours of entertainment out of it, between the Bioware made content and fan content.

I know there's a whole other world of it with multiplayer, but it's not the "allure" for everyone. :)

Also, while I seem to be the vast minority in this opinion/experience, I had a much easier time designing stuff with the NWN2 toolset. Having a non-programming background, I still was able to get right into it and make stuff. I even won 3rd place in their module design contest in 2006. Mind, my module takes about 5-10 minutes to play through, but for a secretary with a degree in English, the fact I made a playable game even at only 10 minutes long I feel like is an accomplishment, and speaks to the fact that it can be used by anyone, because I definitely am anyone.

I don't know, maybe NWN's toolset was more friendly to actual people with game design/programming skills and thus that's why I couldn't get into it, or something.

Also, I really liked NWN2s freeform outdoor terrain sculpting and had a lot of fun with it; whereas I really struggled with NWN's tilesets.

Maerimydra wrote:


OK, I just finished the part in Luskan and now I'm at the beginning of a new chapter where I have to find the "words of power". Is it near the end of the game? If it's almost the end of the game, I'll try to finish the OC, if not, I won't bother.

Honestly, I only played through the OC once and that was 10 years ago. I don't really remember. Luskan was middle or endpoint maybe? I'd suggest peeking at a walkthrough if you want to be sure.

Grand Lodge

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If you're looking to purchase old games like Never Winter Nights,Might and Magic, or a host of others. Gog.com seems to be one of those places to buy them as digital downloads.

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