Oil of gravity bow

I'm still kinda new to Pathfinder, and I've never used an oil before, so I just want to make sure I understand how this works.

Basically, for 50 gp, I can buy an Oil of Gravity Bow (1st level wizard/sorcerer/ranger spell) that I rub on my bow at the start of combat, and for 10 rounds, my longbow arrows will do 2d6 damage instead of 1d8. And this is an "always available" item for Pathfinder Society.

Can I assume we ignore any considerations about the oil making my hands and/or the bow slippery and thus causing difficulty in firing? After all, it's magic oil, so it probably gets absorbed into the bow, leaving it completely dry.

And yes, I know that wands are more cost effective than oils, but using wands of spells you can't cast is unreliable, and not something I'd want to be doing in the middle of combat. Oils have no failure rate. Besides, I'll only use this once per battle in the tougher battles, so I shouldn't need to use it often enough to blow through a ton of charges on a wand.

Unfortunately, it has a range of personal so it can't be made into a potion.

Look into an oil of flame arrow though!

And don't feel too bad about missing that rules issue, the notation that Personal spells can't be made into potions is kinda buried.

Unfortunately, it has a range of personal so it can't be made into a potion.

Look into an oil of flame arrow though!

Flame arrow might similarly cause extra damage, but that's where the resemblance ends. 50 gp per potion and 750 gp per potion aren't in the same ballpark.

A simple potion of enlarge person will do it. Unfortunately this will also net you a -2 to hit with your bow. (-2 dex, -1 on attacks for size). But in that price range its probably the only way to get the increased damage.

Enlarge Person doesn't affect ranged weapons.

A simple potion of enlarge person will do it. Unfortunately this will also net you a -2 to hit with your bow. (-2 dex, -1 on attacks for size). But in that price range its probably the only way to get the increased damage.

except ranged attacks shrink after launched, dealing the original damage, but wiht a -2 to hit

And from a damage perspective, anything that gives -2 to hit better give a ton of extra damage. Or an extra attack.

Oh wow, missed that change from 3.5. That takes enlarge person off of my frequently prepared list from now on...

Oh wow, missed that change from 3.5. That takes enlarge person off of my frequently prepared list from now on...

It worked that way 3.5, the wording hasn't changed.

Level: Sor/Wiz 1, Strength 1

Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed.

If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it— the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.

All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal more damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack,.

Enlarge person counters and dispels reduce person.

Enlarge person can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

Material Component
A pinch of powdered iron.

I only remember it because I had someone in a game I was running use this ALL the time on their naturally large character to have an archer that dealt 3d6+6 damage with every shot.

Ok, so what about a scroll of gravity bow? It's a wizard spell, and I'm wanting this for an archer bard character, so they're both arcane. I probably should have thought of that sooner. Like I said, I'm still relatively new to the game.

And that's actually cheaper (25 gp). I just need to make sure I have Read Magic as a cantrip, which should be a given.

It isn't on your spell list, so you'd need UMD.

Sorry mate :(

You can have a wizard with Craft Wondrous Item make you a 1/day command word item for 360 gp (720 gp for a non-slot item)... except in Pathfinder Society. You're probably better off with a wand of gravity bow (750 gp for 50 charges); you'll need to make DC 20 Use Magic Device checks to activate it, but as a bard it's a class skill and you should have a high Cha. Alternately, a magician bard could choose gravity bow as their Expanded Repetoire spell at 2nd level.

Somehow, I completely missed that you could only use scrolls of stuff on your own spell list. I guess that's what happens when you try to take in that much information at once, since I'd never looked at scrolls before.

I don't want a wand of gravity bow, just because making a DC 20 skill check without at least a +15 bonus seems like a waste of a standard action during battle. And it'll take until at least level 9 or 10 to get the skill up that high.

Well, that sucks. It just seems like there's no reliable way for any archers besides rangers to get gravity bow. No, I won't consider the Magician bard archetype. I'm not even sure why that's a bard archetype - it seems to do away with anything even remotely bardic. I'm still trying to figure out why this is a wizard/sorcerer spell. How many of them do you see wandering around firing bows regularly?

I'll see how the character plays as a straight archer bard for a couple of levels. Depending on how much emphasis I end up putting on archery vs other things, I may consider a 1 level dip into sorcerer, just to be able to cast gravity bow 4 times per day. I'll definitely wait until after getting key bard skills first, though (versatile performance at 2nd level, probably wait until after 4th level to get level 2 spells, etc). Upgrading 1d8 damage per arrow to 2d6 per arrow is a pretty big bonus, especially when you figure the number of arrows he'll eventually be firing with rapid shot, many shot, etc.

There's always the Dangerously Curious trait to make UMD a class skill.. and you could buy 2 scrolls of gravity bow for the price you woulda paid for one potion!

Consider instead a 2 level dip in ranger rather than a level dip in sorc.

Pros: +2 BAB instead of losing BAB so you hit less.
Free Archery Based Bonus Feat!
Gravity Bow is added to your spell list, allowing you to use wands/scrolls/etc without making UMD checks.

Technically, you can 1 level dip in ranger for all of that except the bonus feat, but you may as well take the 2nd level, since its more BAB and nothing but good things for Archers.

I was working on a magus/arcane archer a while back, and one of the magus abilities allowed me to take spells from another caster and add them to my spellbook.... perfect for gravity bow. Not to mention the extra elemental damage I can instantly add to the bow with arcane points, or spells I can target via arrows. The only downside is my AB wasn't quite as good as a full BAB class.

Consider instead a 2 level dip in ranger rather than a level dip in sorc.

Advantage of a dip into sorcerer or wizard is however that he then qualifies for Arcane Archer, if he wants to go that route.

The magus idea Lythe mentioned might work too, I haven't checked into that yet.

Consider instead a 2 level dip in ranger rather than a level dip in sorc.

Pros: +2 BAB instead of losing BAB so you hit less.
Free Archery Based Bonus Feat!
Gravity Bow is added to your spell list, allowing you to use wands/scrolls/etc without making UMD checks.

Technically, you can 1 level dip in ranger for all of that except the bonus feat, but you may as well take the 2nd level, since its more BAB and nothing but good things for Archers.

Would that work? A ranger doesn't have a spell list per se before 4th level. His caster level is Rgr lvl -3. This issue came up when I ran a ranger and wanted to use a wand of CLW before I hit 4th.

We were never really sure about this though...

Purchase or make an intelligent bow that can cast gravity bow 3/day as it's own action. They don't cost that much money.

Telepathy, 10 int, 10 wis, 10 cha, senses 30', and cast level 1 spell 3/day = +2,700 g.p to base price so only 1,350 to creation cost of bow.

Now you can give it mental orders to activate as a free action when you want 3/day as long as you are holding it. Might as well put some other buff spells in there as well remembering haste is only second level for summoners. So adding haste 3/day is only 7,200 to base price.

People always forget about intelligent items when optimizing characters I mean who doesn't want no action buff spells on the cheap.

Would that work? A ranger doesn't have a spell list per se before 4th level. His caster level is Rgr lvl -3. This issue came up when I ran a ranger and wanted to use a wand of CLW before I hit 4th.

We were never really sure about this though...

Yes. See here. Yes, wands are spell trigger items.

Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Deusvult, as a bard, UMD is already a class skill. The problem is that Gravity Bow isn't a bard spell, so I can't use a wand without a UMD check, and I can't use a scroll of it. Since the DC on UMD for wand us is 20, that means I'll be at least level 8 or 9 before I can use wands of spells from other classes reliably enough to even try it in combat. For an out of combat application, the UMD check isn't that worrisome, because I can just try it a few times until I get it right, but that's not something I want to waste time on during a fight.

Weables, I'll consider that ranger dip instead of sorcerer if I decide to multi-class. As I said, I want to see how the character plays as straight bard first. But gravity bow is just such a good boost for a medium sized longbow character, that I was trying to find a way to get it.

Novennia, the character's a bard first, so I'm going at least 14 cha. That's why I was thinking sorcerer dip, instead of wizard. Besides, sorcerers can cast more level 1 spells per day at 1st level. And bards already qualify for arcane archer, though I don't know if I want to go there. Also, this is for Pathfinder Society, so no scribe scroll, or any other item creation. Everything has to be bought, not made.

Paraxis, wow, good call on the intelligent bow. I hadn't even looked at that section of the rules yet, but it looks like the bow would be able to buff itself without me needing to have the spell or spend an action on my turn. Very cool. Silly question, but does the 11 stat limit to cast level 1 spells still apply in the case of magic weapons, or could I still leave it with all 10 stats?

Anyway, my bard will probably be a good enough archer without gravity bow, but that upgrade from 1d8 to 2d6 damage per arrow is just so tempting that I'd love to find a way to get it.

Paraxis, wow, good call on the intelligent bow.

I don't have the Guide in front of me, but I believe that Intelligent Items are prohibited in PFS. Double-check that before trying it.

As for the ranger dip:
Wands can be activated after a one-level dip, but scrolls require that you actually have the ability to cast spells.

For what it's worth, the Magician bard archetype could add Gravity Bow to his spell list at level 2. But I suspect you already have a different archetype lined up.

Looking at Reduce Person...

All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly reduced

by the spell.
Melee and projectile weapons deal less damage. Other magical
properties are not affected by this spell. Any reduced item that leaves
the reduced creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown
weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown
weapons deal their normal damage (projectiles deal damage based
on the size of the weapon that fired them).

I interpret this as, for both Enlarge and Reduce, arrows deal damage based on the character's (and weapon's) current size even though the arrows return to normal size in flight.

Unfortunately, it has a range of personal so it can't be made into a potion.

Look into an oil of flame arrow though!

Serious necro, but Iron Fang Invasion book 3 has Oils of Gravity bow on some enemies.

Hah! That's a worthy necro. There are quite a few published adventures which include "against the rules" items that the authors and editors didn't catch - mostly potions of personal spell effects. Would anyone care to cite others?

Such errors are a long running tradition! Almost (?) every NPC stats block Wizards of the Coast published in 3E had a serious error in it.

Since this is necroed anyways, I point out the rules for oils are virtually non-existent.

Warsmurf wrote:

A simple potion of enlarge person will do it. Unfortunately this will also net you a -2 to hit with your bow. (-2 dex, -1 on attacks for size). But in that price range its probably the only way to get the increased damage.

except ranged attacks shrink after launched, dealing the original damage, but wiht a -2 to hit

Mark Seifter told me about a workaround he's used with some of his characters.

He carries around a quiver of Size Large Arrows, drops them, casts Enlarge Person, then picks them up, so he is shooting proper size large arrows from his Enlarged Bow.

It isn't on your spell list, so you'd need UMD.

Sorry mate :(

It seems to me like if you want your character to be a good archer, a 1 level dip into Ranger so that you can use a Wand of Gravity Bow isn't out of line.