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More About Paizo Game Space

Thursday, October 18, 2012


The Swallowtail Festival from Rise of the Runelords in full swing! We still don't know who invited the dragon...

At the PaizoCon 2012 banquet, we announced we've been working on Paizo Game Space, a virtual tabletop that runs right in your web browser. We've shown some screenshots, and clarified why we're doing this (hint: it's not to crush our enemies). But now it's been a few months, and the VTT isn't available yet, so we'd like to give you an update on where we are and answer some big questions: "When can I use it?" and "How much will it cost?"

When can I use it?

We're going to be starting public beta testing in the next few weeks. This beta test will be open to anybody who bought a ticket online for PaizoCon 2012. This gives us a reasonably limited group of people to bang on it and break the obvious stuff so we can fix it before opening it up to everybody. Ideally, the beta test will last just a few weeks, but that will depend on what breaks.

How much will it cost?

As we've said before, it'll be free to play. But we'll have ways for you to give us money. Since we're talking about selling access to digital data, pretty much anything is possible, but initially, we're focusing on maps, tokens and adventures.

We've also settled on some basic principles:

  • If you buy it, you keep it. That means no limited number of uses, no monthly fees, no pay-per-play, no rentals. If you buy a token set for Paizo Game Space, you can use those tokens whenever you like. Period. There's no extra charge to use the same token in multiple games. You won't have to pay us again next year to keep using it. And if you buy a campaign and want to run multiple groups through it, you can do that, too.
  • If someone at the table has it, everybody can see it. Rather than make GMs have to purchase everything, we think it's important for players to be able to help out. So if Karzoug is running a campaign, and needs Flip-Mat: Country Inn, Merisiel can just let him use hers.*

So how much does that Flip-Mat cost Merisiel? We're still working out pricing for things like Adventure Paths and token packs, but we can tell you this: Flip-Mats and Map Packs will be just $1.99. And if you already bought the PDF for a Flip-Mat or Map Pack? You can use it in Paizo Game Space, free.

Gary Teter
Senior Software Developer

*Little-known fact: rogues love to share. And runelords make great GMs.

More Paizo Blog.
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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yay Corgi :wgdance:

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Wow. This is super exciting!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmmm... will that include the maps in the APs? Also, once the gamespace is released will the map PDFs continue to grant gamespace use even for maps bought after gamespace debuts?

Game Space Beta Tester

Sweet

Star Voter 2013

Sounds awesome!

Game Space Beta Tester , Marathon Voter 2013

Is there a way I can give access to someone else?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Cheapy wrote:
Is there a way I can give access to someone else?

Do you mean access to the beta?

Shadow Lodge Game Space Beta Tester , Star Voter 2013

I would love to pay for all the tokens and maps I would need for an AP. Makes running my RotR with a group 200 miles away much easier.

Game Space Beta Tester , Marathon Voter 2013

Jiggy wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Is there a way I can give access to someone else?
Do you mean access to the beta?

Yep.

Game Space Beta Tester , Marathon Voter 2013

It isn't so much that I don't want to see it so much that there are a few people I have in mind that I don't think went who would really like to check it out.

Silver Crusade Game Space Beta Tester

4 people marked this as a favorite.

ALL MY MONEY!~!!!!!!!!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Can I just give you 40 bucks and get access? ;)Didn't make it to Paizocon this year!!!

By the way, great update. Really looking forward to the open beta on this.

Sovereign Court

As much as I dislike meme macro images, the "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" immediately comes to mind. So excited to waste all possibly money (preferably in a Subscription format) on this and pray I get into a PFS pbp.

Edit: And then Richard realized that there IS a map-pack subscription. Still hoping for a Game Space-only sub.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
So if Karzoug is running a campaign, and needs Flip-Mat: Country Inn, Merisiel can just let him use hers.

Trying to picture this kind of blew my mind.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is probably a big fat NO, as I'm sure the price point has to do with linking it to Paizo's own VTT, but is there any way that those of us that use other VTT's (I use d20Pro because I want rules automation) could purchase these high-def, grid optimized maps for a similar price? I love the map packs and the flip mats, but the price of the PDF's are WAY too high.

Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

How do I "favorite" a blog post? Cos the "basic principles" part has me set to give Paizo money already, just in gratitude.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
ChrisRevocateur wrote:
This is probably a big fat NO, as I'm sure the price point has to do with linking it to Paizo's own VTT, but is there any way that those of us that use other VTT's (I use d20Pro because I want rules automation) could purchase these high-def, grid optimized maps for a similar price? I love the map packs and the flip mats, but the price of the PDF's are WAY too high.

See this post for some thoughts about that.

Lantern Lodge

As other have stated, I wonder how this will tie to your other subscriptions. If I have pawns, APs and Campaign Setting will I get included in my subs pawns, AP maps, and AP Map Packs (in Campaign Setting)? Or will they be a separate purchase?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The bit about Flip-Mat and Map Pack PDFs giving free access to those maps in the VTT applies *only* to Flip-Mat and Map Pack PDFs. I've edited the blog to clarify that.

We're not prepared to say anything more specific about adventure content or pawn pricing just yet, but I think it's safe to say that we've demonstrated that current PDF ownership has the potential to affect the cost for related gamespace products.

Stratagemini wrote:
Also, once the gamespace is released will the map PDFs continue to grant gamespace use even for maps bought after gamespace debuts?

Yep.


This. Is. Awesome.

If only I could have attended PaizoCon :(


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

this might be the 3 IPAs I have had in last 30min but I love you guys

Lantern Lodge

It says in the blog that those that bought tickets get access, but what about if I bought a ticket and gave it to another cause I couldn't make it? Does this give me access or the person that I gave the ticket to access?

Sovereign Court Star Voter 2013

Hmmm, that sure seems awesome, but I'm wondering if it can be used for PBP games(combat saved and on hold, even when no one is connected to it) :/

Anyway, Go Paizo that seems really great and I can't wait to test it! (But I do hope we'll get free maps for the AP we have on PDFs...)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Thank you for the new information.

Question: Can non-Paizo content be used in Gamespace?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Finally, the Virtual Tabletop will let me play as Vic Wertz.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Holy Crap! that makes all the pdf maps much more attractive.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1. Will I be able to use the maps from the PDFs I get as an Adventure Path subscriber in game space at no extra coast?

2. Will people in the closed beta be able to video there sessions and post online so others can see how it works?

3. Will it have a built in voice program?


7 people marked this as a favorite.

<unsolicited opinion>
I think you should provide all non-map images for free, the flip mat line as the basic free mapset, and Modules/APs should be bought as assets. The flip mats and art collection are enough material to run games with, and entice people to the system, but you still have to do a lot of work to run a game.

Images are worth something, but quick accessibility is worth vastly more. Locking away any character art is more trouble than it's worth, and charging for art sets alone isn't a model that's been (sustainably) making money for similar VTTs (like Roll20).

VTT Prep work — that is, tokens in the right place and information embedded where it is needed — is the most valuable commodity. That's the stuff that GMs lose the most time and energy to. Without the prep, art packs are a losing proposition. Adventure content and setup is the way to go! Just like with Adventure Paths, you charge for GM prep, and that's a very tempting thing to pay for.
</unsolicited opinion>

Dark Archive Game Space Beta Tester

Will Paizo Game Space allow you to draw your own map on a grid or grant customization on a '"blank slate"? Or is it meant for the uploading pregenerated maps only?

The Exchange

Most excellent news!

Also really good to hear about the generously low price tag - will make using the VTT much more viable for me.

God(s) speed!

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Elorebaen wrote:

Thank you for the new information.

Question: Can non-Paizo content be used in Gamespace?

I really hope this is the case. For example, I know several very good artists. If I could get one of them to draw a custom token for my character that I could then use in a game, that would be way cooler than picking one of the pre-fab tokens.

I would not even be opposed to a small fee for this -- say, $1 buys 10 "slots" for you to upload custom tokens.


Nifty. I'm not sure how useful this will be for me personally but I'll defiantly give it a try when it comes out.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tamago wrote:
Elorebaen wrote:
Question: Can non-Paizo content be used in Gamespace?
I really hope this is the case [...] a custom token for my character [...] would be way cooler than picking one of the pre-fab tokens.

In addition to the question about custom tokens, are there any plans to support custom maps?

It's not too hard to make a decent map using free pre-fab resources from places like the dundjinni.com forums and rpgmapshare.com. If I make such a thing, can I upload it for my players to use?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ya, maps thing is pretty important for those of us who run our own custom games.

Also, things like bestiary. Are you going to sell those things for VTT instant use? Are you going to have a bundle for say 1-2 hundred that gets you everything for the VTT? Obviously not looking for every scenario/ap, but the base stuff like spell macros, monsters, etc.

I belong to a group of about 80 players who game PFS online. Right now I run a homebrew and PFS games on a VTT. I also ran another homebrew and Carrion Crown on a VTT. With the time I have into resources right now, it will have to be a pretty sweet package to convince me to switch over. Whats the time frame on getting these things done? Is it going to take years to move PFS scenarios to map tools, months, or is that not even planned?

Most the people who GM in my group have shown an interest, but obviously it has to actually make life easier, and if we have to recreate the wheel on everything it won't really be worth it. Anyway, excited to finally see something. If you want to go ahead and have me test your beta in real time, with people who already play VTT a few times a week, you know where to find me.

Sovereign Court

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

I think the most important thing is a great big bag of resources, well-organised.

A selection of 50 trees, 100 bushes, 12 different types of wall in full sets, including all kinds of junctions/corners and broken wall section. Having doors, bridges, windows, market stalls...

If I have to pay for all of that (thousands of images) then it becomes a no-brainer to stick with MapTools and its awesome, constantly updated user-generated resources.

It's also important to have stock images of almost every creature and a vast range of PC and NPC types. Otherwise I can stick with MapTools and use TokenLab with every pdf I own, plus online resources a-go-go.

I would probably be willing to drop a dollar or two on each bestiary but beyond that... MapTools!

Scarab Sages

This is hugely exciting! I may be starting up a map pack subscription just to get ahead on this. :)


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

Since Hero Lab is the premier Pathfinder character management tool, are there any plans to be able to import HL characters (PC/NPC) into this VTT?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Evil Lincoln wrote:

<unsolicited opinion>

I think you should provide all non-map images for free, the flip mat line as the basic free mapset, and Modules/APs should be bought as assets. The flip mats and art collection are enough material to run games with, and entice people to the system, but you still have to do a lot of work to run a game.

Images are worth something, but quick accessibility is worth vastly more. Locking away any character art is more trouble than it's worth, and charging for art sets alone isn't a model that's been (sustainably) making money for similar VTTs (like Roll20).

VTT Prep work — that is, tokens in the right place and information embedded where it is needed — is the most valuable commodity. That's the stuff that GMs lose the most time and energy to. Without the prep, art packs are a losing proposition. Adventure content and setup is the way to go! Just like with Adventure Paths, you charge for GM prep, and that's a very tempting thing to pay for.
</unsolicited opinion>

+100 GM prep is one big area for value-added options. We are already have images, there needs to be something else that makes prep time quicker, more efficient.

I really hope at least some people that make it into the Beta test are those who have used VTTs regularly for at least a couple of year' so that the powers that be get solid advice on what it takes to make and sustain a VTT campaign.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

So the big questions are: will pawns and AP/PFS scenario maps move over as well. If so, you just made a big fan out of me, despite the limitations. The ability to plunk down the maps and pawns for Rise of the Runelords AE with no prep time is a pretty impressive selling point. Throw in the maps from the comics and things get even better.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Elorebaen wrote:
Evil Lincoln wrote:

<unsolicited opinion>

I think you should provide all non-map images for free, the flip mat line as the basic free mapset, and Modules/APs should be bought as assets. The flip mats and art collection are enough material to run games with, and entice people to the system, but you still have to do a lot of work to run a game.

Images are worth something, but quick accessibility is worth vastly more. Locking away any character art is more trouble than it's worth, and charging for art sets alone isn't a model that's been (sustainably) making money for similar VTTs (like Roll20).

VTT Prep work — that is, tokens in the right place and information embedded where it is needed — is the most valuable commodity. That's the stuff that GMs lose the most time and energy to. Without the prep, art packs are a losing proposition. Adventure content and setup is the way to go! Just like with Adventure Paths, you charge for GM prep, and that's a very tempting thing to pay for.
</unsolicited opinion>

+100 GM prep is one big area for value-added options. We are already have images, there needs to be something else that makes prep time quicker, more efficient.

I really hope at least some people that make it into the Beta test are those who have used VTTs regularly for at least a couple of year' so that the powers that be get solid advice on what it takes to make and sustain a VTT campaign.

Agree, freeing up prep time will be a huge advancement. It takes me 3-4 hours to prep a session the way that I want it prepped. As far as images go, I have well over 30k in my downloads already, and over 1500 maps. What I want is already completed tokens that can be dragged and dropped, and the ability to add my own when used. My current homebrew has a lot of customized and 3PP's in it, so easy of customization and integration is key.

I have ran two campaigns to completion now on map tools, and ran about 20 PFS scenarios on there, and all that prep time could certainly be put to better use running an actual game, or coming up with ideas for the next dungeon.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This is a face full of awesome!

Grand Lodge Dedicated Voter 2013

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am worried that you are making a program with a mind to be able to individually charge for all the pre-existing cartography, NPC and monster artwork that you currently own.

I am not interested in buying a basic program and then having to individually micro purchase all the content I need to use the program the way I want to. I would much rather pay a lump sum to get the program and all the content that Paizo can offer inside it. Otherwise it's a turn off. You don't buy the Angry Birds app and then have to buy the next ten levels when you get up to the second world.

I know the Paizo cartographer is constantly creating new great content for PFS, Adventure Paths and much, much more. Why not have two products?
1. Gamespace VTT package (loads of core content, 40+ maps, all bestiaries, homebrew features for custom tokens and custom maps)
2. Constant Content VTT subscription (everything else and everything new)
This would allow the subscribers to get everything new without having to process constant micropayments.

Also, there needs to be an easy method to upload your own token images. I support what everyone else has said about wanting to upload their custom art of their characters or favourite NPCs, rather than using some Paizo art of a pre-existing character.

I would also strongly urge you to make sure that the program is more simple and easier to use than Maptools. Roleplayers tend to be a technologically savvy bunch, but not all of us have maxed their ranks on custom software use (including me).

Really excited about this project, keep up the good work!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hope this is a web based app that doesn't rely on plugins.

This would be perfect for tablets.


I am so ready for this. After My Kingmaker game I would like to Run Rise of the Rune lords with this.

If a Map appears in the adventure that is part of a Flip-Mat or Map Pack do we still get those maps?

Grand Lodge

Also Agree with KestlerGunner. I have no problem dropping about $200 to have a more or less "complete" package. Probably wouldn't go much more than that though. Then you can still sell off AP's and PFS Scenarios separate.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

This sounds really good, and I'm looking forward to it.

Question: Will all players/GM need to be online at the same time? Or will it be possible to run a play-by-post type of game with it?

Star Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Huh. I just starting using roll20.net for something like this, but I'd love to see how this works, and if it's got access to say the APs, well that'd just make my life so much easier.


Ayup, knowing whether this is going to work on tablets would be great...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
KestlerGunner wrote:

I am worried that you are making a program with a mind to be able to individually charge for all the pre-existing cartography, NPC and monster artwork that you currently own.

I am not interested in buying a basic program and then having to individually micro purchase all the content I need to use the program the way I want to. I would much rather pay a lump sum to get the program and all the content that Paizo can offer inside it. Otherwise it's a turn off. You don't buy the Angry Birds app and then have to buy the next ten levels when you get up to the second world.

I know the Paizo cartographer is constantly creating new great content for PFS, Adventure Paths and much, much more. Why not have two products?
1. Gamespace VTT package (loads of core content, 40+ maps, all bestiaries, homebrew features for custom tokens and custom maps)
2. Constant Content VTT subscription (everything else and everything new)
This would allow the subscribers to get everything new without having to process constant micropayments.

Also, there needs to be an easy method to upload your own token images. I support what everyone else has said about wanting to upload their custom art of their characters or favourite NPCs, rather than using some Paizo art of a pre-existing character.

I would also strongly urge you to make sure that the program is more simple and easier to use than Maptools. Roleplayers tend to be a technologically savvy bunch, but not all of us have maxed their ranks on custom software use (including me).

Really excited about this project, keep up the good work!

It's not an actual separate program you buy and run, like e.g. Maptools. It's a web based, in-browser program/app which you access through a browser from anywhere (similar to what roll20.net is doing).

It's also free to use, so you're not buying anything off the bat to use it. You'll only have to buy some of the content, but not, from what Vic and Gary has said so far, some basic elements to get everyone started.

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