I'm thinking of playing a First Worlder Summoner for a Legacy of Fire campaign. My question is what does this type of character do during a combat rounds of longer combats?
Sure, as combat starts he summons something and/or buffs his allies. Then what?
The spell list seems to lack any blasting or debuffing to use as a "might as well" type wand attack.
Can some interesting feats give this 3/4 BAB character with light armor something useful to do in combat? Maybe, but not taking the feats to summon better and more often seems a steep price to pay.
Ping with a crossbow to interrupt enemy spellcasting?
Any advice?
One idea I had is to do a one-level dip into Oracle or Sorceror. Either can give me more of social skills as class skills. Either can use the Seeker archetype for trapfinding if no other PC has that. Either gives me access to using a lot of wands without needing Use Magic Device. The sorceror dip can give me a familiar from either Arcane bloodline or tattoed archetype for +4 initiative. Am I correct in thinking that Pathfinder had some power creep over 3.5, and Summoner is a strong class, so a one-level dip will not gimp this PC too much?
Ping with a crossbow to interrupt enemy spellcasting?
Yeah, perfectly legitimate;). As a First worlder maybe even something more primitive. Atlatl ? Javelin, shortspear, something like that. You can also poison them. You can throw tangle-foot bags, alchemist fire, stuff... you´ll have scrolls ?
Yeah, perfectly legitimate;). As a First worlder maybe even something more primitive. Atlatl ? Javelin, shortspear, something like that. You can also poison them. You can throw tangle-foot bags, alchemist fire, stuff... you´ll have scrolls ?
Good advice. But it still seems a bit "twiddle my thumbs" at low level, when:
[a] The party lacks the gold to use poisons much[b] Few enemies cast spells, so interrupting spellcasters is very situational
[c] UMD is too low for even semi-reliable blast or debuff scroll or wand use
True, I could take Skill Focus(UMD) but it seems a waste of a feat just to use wands early. Eventually this high Charisma character will be able to hit the DC 20 to use wands without trouble!
On the other hand, low-level combat rarely lasts more than a few rounds, and at low levels a hit from a crossbow or something is still meaningful damage.
I'm thinking of playing a First Worlder Summoner for a Legacy of Fire campaign.
I assume you're choosing 3rd World Summoner to gimp yourself intentionally?
I realy don't get the 3rd world summer. You get an expanded summoning list (Yay) but in return your eidelon is heavily crushed in nearly every way. Even darkvision!
I suggest giving some free evolutions to go along with it.
You don't even really get an expanded summoning list as much as you get a different summoning list. At low levels, it's mostly just an inferior summoning list, because it's similar to your normal one but without the templates on the creatures. Once you get into the mid-to-high levels it does start to diverge a bit. (Containing large numbers of brute creatures, mostly.)
I suppose there is always demoralize with Intimidate (or Bluff and the Taunt feat).
Move into combat to set up a flank and make an assist other action, this can give a melee combatant (maybe your Eidolon, or you suddenly become the party's rogue/ninja new best friend) a +4 to hit, not too shabby at low levels.
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This character here was created during the Beta playtest of the APG, ie before the publication of that archetype.
I converted to the printed APG rules at level 2.
In my mind, the PC has always summoned his eidolon from the First World (hence trading out racial cantrips for First Memories) and I had been looking forward for ways to extend the summon list to include the Nature's Ally entries, both for flavour, and to take advantage of feats such as Starlight Summons.
So I was excited to see the list of archetypes would include a specifically First-World summoner. When I read it, though, I was less than thrilled, as it reduces the effectiveness of the eidolon (in several areas), trades away the Summon Monster options, and gives nothing in return.
I can't take the archetype for this PC, as he was already past level 1, but I could not imagine a situation in which I would want to.
A player should not have to cripple his character, for the sake of flavour.
Since PF Society frowns on re-skinning, I will continue to run the PC by the book. If everyone else wishes to believe my summons come from Celestia, that's their business; in my mind, I will know they are First World denizens, who just happen to have the same template as celestial or fiendish creatures, depending on whether I pull them from the Seelie or Unseelie courts.
You'd think that the ability scores of the First Worlder's eidolon would be different as well. Since it's obviously not meant for combat (1/2 BaB) why doesn't it have it's abilities shored up in a different direction? Being able to grab the spell-like ability evolutions at lower cost, having a higher Int/Cha for more skills or easier access to those evolutions, etc.
As it stands, I have no idea, none, as to why you would take the archetype besides pure flavor. It doesn't even equal out to the base class, it should at least do that in some way.
Seriously, I don't know what they were thinking when they created the archetype.
I mean... The Eidolon is incredibly weak: instead of HD of 1D10, he gets D6s, and in combat, he will be weaker even than a wizard. (In Lvl 20, he gets a +7 BAB? Please!)
In my table, there's a summoner and a druid (I have an hourglass for both of them: If they take too long, their turn ends! The Fighter and the cleric begged for it) but the druid is possitive that summon monster is better (Damage reduction, Smite Evil/Good... even the monsters are more varied)
This is like giving away some powers, and get nothing in return!
First Worlder is for trolling your party with Pugwampis, I don't think it will be very effective in Legacy of Fire, which already features Pugwampis.
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First Worlder is for trolling your party with Pugwampis, I don't think it will be very effective in Legacy of Fire, which already features Pugwampis.
YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES ,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YE S,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES, HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe, HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,HeHe,
The archetype is wonderful for the restrictions it *doesn't* have.
The archetype is wonderful for the restrictions it *doesn't* have.
But the most interesting of those is completely outside RAW!
Remember in the computer game Nethack, in which you started with a pet cat or dog, how fun it was to find a wand of Polymorph Other early on? Zap! Zap! Stop when your loyal pet is something huge like an Umber Hulk or Dragon.
What happens if a First Worlder's eidolon dies and is reincarnated? (Unlike any other eidolon it is not and Outsider so this can happen.)
Does it still follow the eidolon rules? Now we have a...kobold? gnoll? that functions as an edilon!
If not, does a new eidolon appear for that character similar to how dead animal companions and bonded mounts get replaced? In how much time? With a new build or identical to the old? Etc.
I was referring to the lack of restriction on having the eidolon and summons out...
I'm thinking of playing a First Worlder Summoner for a Legacy of Fire campaign.I assume you're choosing 3rd World Summoner to gimp yourself intentionally?
First world summoner is not bad. There was a thread about it, here is my post as to why it is ok.
The archetype is wonderful for the restrictions it *doesn't* have.But the most interesting of those is completely outside RAW!
Remember in the computer game Nethack, in which you started with a pet cat or dog, how fun it was to find a wand of Polymorph Other early on? Zap! Zap! Stop when your loyal pet is something huge like an Umber Hulk or Dragon.
What happens if a First Worlder's eidolon dies and is reincarnated? (Unlike any other eidolon it is not and Outsider so this can happen.)
Does it still follow the eidolon rules? Now we have a...kobold? gnoll? that functions as an edilon!
If not, does a new eidolon appear for that character similar to how dead animal companions and bonded mounts get replaced? In how much time? With a new build or identical to the old? Etc.
Why don't you simply raise/resurrect it? Use breath of life?
Or may be you could even make it an undead creature - haven't thought about that so far...
Yea, on reflection I'm not sure Yesterday-Me is right.
Is it possible to combine first world summoner with master summoner?
Honestly if you could do that than the eidolons many many weaknesses become a moot point as yout turn it into a pocket skill monkey.
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Is it possible to combine first world summoner with master summoner?
Honestly if you could do that than the eidolons many many weaknesses become a moot point as yout turn it into a pocket skill monkey.
Not officially, since they both modify the Eidolon and the Summon Monster I special ability. Some GMs might allow it, but it is not technically allowed.