It’s a Trap!

Friday, July 6, 2018

Hazards are some of the most common challenges in Pathfinder, apart from monsters, and the most common hazards are traps. Most of the hazards in the Pathfinder Playtest are traps, but there are also environmental hazards like mold and quicksand, or even haunts. Rather than have different rules for each type of hazard, in the playtest, hazards all have a unified format, though how you might find them and deal with them can be quite different.

Noticing a Hazard

Most hazards can be noticed using Perception, although simple or obvious magical hazards are easily noticeable via detect magic and similar magic. Some hazards are so easy to locate that you might notice them even if you aren't even searching. Other hazards might be created or hidden in a particularly devious way and require a certain proficiency rank to notice them before it's too late, even if you're searching. (The rogue's Trap Finder feat improves this even further in the case of traps, but any character with legendary Perception can find any Perception-based hazard—not just rogues!) These harder-to-locate hazards don't appear until higher levels, since it's incredibly unlikely to encounter a level 1 trap created by a legendary crafter, though that doesn't mean all high-level hazards are hard to notice. For instance, the most dangerous example hazard below, the Armageddon Orb, is trivial for almost anyone to notice.

Disabling a Hazard

The skill needed to disable a hazard varies. Traps are usually disabled via Thievery, environmental hazards via Nature or Survival, and haunts via Occultism or Religion, though there are exceptions in every category. Many hazards require a certain number of successes before they are fully disabled, and a critical success typically counts as two successes. A critical failure means you've accidentally triggered the hazard! Many physical hazards can also be destroyed by brute force. In many cases, breaking the trigger mechanism might set the trap off prematurely, which you might be able to do from a safe distance. We felt it was really important to make dealing with hazards a more narrative experience without taking lots of extra time or requiring the GM to make up details on the spot, and so every skill that can be used to disable a hazard is listed in the stat block, along with a description of the how a PC would use that skill to do so.

Simple or Complex?

Out of everything in the playtest, hazards may be the one component for which you can get the best preview right now. How? Starfinder. We had already created an early framework for hazards by the time Starfinder came around, so when I was asked to create a framework for Starfinder's traps, I adapted what we had for the Pathfinder Playtest, and the rest of the Starfinder Core Rulebook team liked what they saw. We've refined the playtest's system since then, which means that we have two main types of hazards: simple hazards that trigger, take their reaction, and are then done, and complex hazards that roll into initiative and shift the game into encounter mode until the PCs deal with them (or at least escape).

For Example…

Let's take a look at several sample hazards!

Hidden Pit Hazard 0

Mechanical, Trap

Stealth DC 16

Description A trapdoor covers a 10-foot-square pit that is 20 feet deep.

Disable Thievery DC 12 to remove the trapdoor, making the trap no longer hidden (Perception DC 0 to notice)

AC 10, TAC 7; Fort +1, Ref +1

Hardness 4 (trapdoor); Immunities critical hits, object immunities, precision damage

[[R]] Pitfall

Trigger A creature walks onto the trapdoor.

Effect The triggering creature falls in and takes falling damage (typically 10 bludgeoning damage). That creature can use the Grab Edge reaction to avoid falling.

Reset The trap still causes falling damage if anyone falls in, but the trapdoor must be reset manually for the trap to become hidden again.

Ah, the pit, the most basic of all simple traps. Anybody can find a hidden pit, even if they aren't searching for it, because the Stealth DC doesn't require a proficiency rank. If someone walks onto the trapdoor, the pit uses its reaction to open up, and the triggering creature might fall. The Disable entry explains how a character can pop the trapdoor off and make the pit obvious to all. Still might want to be careful crossing, though!

Armageddon Orb Hazard 23

Magical, Trap

Stealth DC 10 or detect magic

Description A roiling red orb, forged from a drop of Rovagug's blood, rains fire from the sky when a specified condition is met.

Disable Thievery DC 51 (legendary) to imbue thieves' tools with aspects representing Asmodeus and Sarenrae and use them to drain away the orb's power over 10 minutes, taking 5 fire damage each round during that time

[[R]] Burn It All (divine, evocation, fire)

Trigger A special condition set by the trap's creator, typically on the event of her death.

Effect Fire rains from the sky in a 100-mile radius, dealing 10d6 fire damage to creatures and objects in the area (Reflex DC 46 for half damage, or no damage on a critical success). Any creature reduced to 0 Hit Points in this way dies instantly. This is not enough damage to completely burn away a forest or level a mountain or city, but it typically kills most creatures in the area.

This one was pure, over-the-top fun to write. What would a level 23 hazard even look like? This one is really obvious but incredibly difficult to disable. The effect's damage is not even remotely a threat to high-level PCs—but if they care about any NPCs in the region, chances are they're not going to want to set this thing off!

Bloodthirsty Urge Hazard 10

Haunt

Stealth DC 29 (trained)

Description An object imbued with echoes of a vicious mind tries to kill someone who comes near.

Disable Religion DC 27 (master) to exorcise the spirit or Diplomacy DC 29 (expert) to talk it down

[[R]] Quietus (emotion, fear, illusion, mental, occult)

Trigger A creature moves within 10 feet of the haunted object.

Effect The haunt takes control of the triggering creature, forcing it to attack itself. The creature is affected by phantasmal killer (DC 25), except that instead of mental damage, the damage type is based on a weapon the creature has drawn, an object it holds, or its unarmed attack damage if it's holding nothing.

Here's an example of a haunt. As you can see, it uses the same basic framework as the other hazards, so once you learn the rules, you can use them flexibly for almost any hazard you can dream up! In this case, a PC could use Religion to exorcise the haunt, but a character could also potentially use Diplomacy to talk it down. Still, the master of Religion has the advantage with an easier DC. You could even imagine an adventure where it matters how the PCs deal with a hazard. Perhaps exorcising a haunt using Religion helps sanctify the area, while using Diplomacy might persuade the spirit to impart some hints to the PCs about what happened before it departs.

Spinning Blade Pillar Hazard 4

Complex, Mechanical, Trap

Stealth +10 (trained) or DC 24 (expert) to notice the control panel

Description A metal pole with three razor-sharp spinning blades is hidden in the floor, connected to trigger plates in up to eight floor tiles and a hidden control panel within 30 feet.

Disable Thievery DC 18 (trained) twice on the pillar, or Thievery DC 16 (expert) once on the control panel deactivates the entire trap

AC 19, TAC 15; Fort +6, Ref +10

Hardness 11 (2 dents) on the pillar, denting the panel causes the trap to stay constantly active and prevents disabling the panel; Immunities critical hits, object immunities, precision damage

[[R]] Rising Pillar (attack)

Trigger A creature steps on one of the floor tiles.

Effect The trap pops up in a grid intersection and makes a spinning blade attack against one adjacent creature (if any), then rolls initiative.

Routine (3 actions) On its initiative, the trap spends its first action making a spinning blade attack against each adjacent creature, its second action to move straight in a random direction (roll 1d4 to determine the direction), and its third action to attack each adjacent creature. This trap doesn't take a multiple attack penalty.

Speed 10 ft.

[[A]] Melee spinning blade +12, Damage 2d10+5 slashing

Reset The trap deactivates and resets after 1 minute.

This is the first complex trap ever created for the game. It was also responsible for the first death in the game, as Logan kept rolling randomly for the blade's movement, which just happened to be wherever Stephen's rogue had moved while trying to avoid it—and then it rolled right back over him after he fell unconscious. Note that the complex trap has a Stealth bonus, rather than just a DC, since it actually rolls for initiative in encounter mode (using Stealth). If your party has an expert in Thievery who can find the hidden panel (we didn't; our expert lay bleeding on the ground), this hazard is actually a breeze to disable, but even a trained character can disable it with patience, and a not-so-patient character can always smash it apart with enough big hits to deal 11 or more damage.

So what do you think? Care to hazard an opinion?

Mark Seifter
Designer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Merisiel Pathfinder Playtest Rogues Wayne Reynolds
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Roswynn wrote:
Slamron wrote:
Adding a size or bulk specification to the Pit Trap's Trigger would be helpful. Will the wizard's cat familiar trigger it? Probably not. What about a halfling that only weighs 45 lbs with gear? Probably.

Mmm, personal opinion, we (GMs) can decide for ourselves. Unless no ulterior details are given, the trap is probably meant for small and medium humanoids and other creatures of similar size/bulk/mass/weight.

What I see as more problematic is that we don't know how big an area the spinning blades can cover. But I think that too would be specified in the adventure.

Then there's the Orb. We really know very little about it. It could be any size, anywhere... maybe it's dangling from a chain around the villain's neck, maybe it's on a pedestal, maybe it's a tiny drop of blood hanging in the air at eye level, maybe it's a room-sized angry red gem floating 30ft in the air... I also am not a fan that even a legendary rogue can do what essentially should be a ritual (investing lockpicks with aspects of Asmodeus and Sarenrae, even temporarily) and then use, again, *lockpicks*, to disable what's essentially an utterly magical artefact.

I dunno man.

There is a really cool moment in one of the books where a character is so good a lock picking they work out how to open a cage of pure chaos. I feel when we get to such Legendary aspects of skills they transcend the material and move into the conceptual. Thus I hope Legendary Deception lets me do things like convince lava it can't hurt me, Legendary Survival lets you survive the void of space, Legendary Theivery then works beyond the mere mundane. Of course a lot of people would hate such flavour, so implimenting it across the board probably wouldn't be popular :)


I'd call it a disconnect more than flavor. No amount of woodslore and rugged camping is going to let someone survive in space. Find food in unlikely places? Sure. Track a mouse across a cathedral floor? OK.

But many of the legendary skill feats come with a hard no attached. If Aroden Himself were to suddenly turn up and they some of them I'd still say 'nope'


While I dislike Skill Feats in general for adding unnecessary complexity, Legendary Skill Feats are particularly bad as they seem designed to prevent players from doing interesting and creative things and just using Feats instead.


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Slamron wrote:
I do have a question regarding the spinning pillar's stealth. I understand the +10 is there for rolling it's initiative, and to see the control panel the DC is 24. But what is the DC to notice the trap itself when you first enter the room? Is it 10?

I'll try to answer you: it's a complex trap, so it has a Stealth of +10 it rolls for initiative. The same value is used as the number you have to beat to notice it, b/c see, it's Stealth. It works like a monster trying to hide. Clearer now? (Also correct me fellow gamers if I'm being stupid).

I totally understand the "mice trap scenario" from your previous post - it's legitimate, I agree, but I'll still run a trap like that pit as something designed for people if the writers don't specify, just b/c that's the default for most traps. They have to tell me when they're doing weird things, I can't read their mind. So you're right in wanting more detail, and at the same time I'm going with my gut feeling on a lot of options, same as I've always done.

Yeah, that Orb, right? Totally awesome, agreed, but... heh! XD

Oh, I understood the *attack range* of the spinning blade, sorry, I didn't explain myself well - what I don't understand is how far it can move. I mean it moves along a grid of grooves in the floor, right? I'd need a brief description like "on a 20x20ft grid", something like that. Btw, when it moves, as of RAW, it doesn't inflict damage if it moves next to you, which I don't think is RAI. That's another thing I think should be clarified (but I'd give a ruling anyways).

Moving on, using the same reply, Malk, cool stuff there! I've never read these books, but that sounds pretty damn awesome! I like your idea. Maybe I was missing that kind of flavor. It could be doable, I think. It's Legendary after all, we already know Legendary skill allows you to do really epic stuff... do you remember that tale in Norse mythology, the dwarves asked for a number of strange ingredients to craft a rope strong enough to restrain Fenrir, the roots of a mountain, the breath of a fish, the sound of a cat's step, and so on. If we can get into that kind of mythic mentality I think it can work! Like stealing a person's shadow, or soul, right? Running faster than thought... Lifting the sky on your shoulders like Atlas! Moving mountains like Hercules... yeah, absolutely, if the game is now diving into epic mode with Legendary skills and 10th level spells, well, dammit, I'm down for it!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fuzzypaws wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Tallow wrote:
Perhaps Legerdemain?
I want this to be the word, but I know that no one I introduce to it will have a clue what it is.
Early D&D actually hugely expanded my vocabulary and I'm a smarter person today because I was reading D&D books as a kid. It's not like Legerdemain is some absurdly rare archaic word, I see it semi-regularly in other contexts and it would be fine here. That's the one they should go with.

I'm with you here. It's because of playing first edition AD&D back in the 1980s that I learned what prestidigitation is (where a level 1 magic-user is called a prestidigitator), and there are countless other examples I could point to. Replacing such colorful language with more commonly used words would take away something special from this hobby that I love.


I love that you can use different skills, now. That is epic.

I'd love too, to allow customized Lore skills to offer insights to Traps via the Aid Another mechanic, though they wouldn't be able to make the primary role. That would bring in more of the party. For example, a fighter (pirate!) with Maritime Lore (or whichever) could Aid Another and offer the trapspringer a bonus.

What would be cool:
* More flexibility for the GMs. I will be honest, here. I am totally going to break those 'these skills only lists' to pieces, based on what/who the characters are in the party, and how the story fits in. I'm less likely to do that if there's at least 2-3 viable skills per trap.

Or just make a GM note encouraging flexibility according to character interest and background?

* So, multiple successes. I kind of like that, but it makes me want for more Aid Another mechanics, where Lore and so on skills can help out. Teamwork, etc.

* Multistage rules for traps. Would love to see them.

Traps are hard because they risk being Solo Adventures unless handled specifically. These feel like some great steps, but that we could push a little further and build on what you've made, you know?


Vlorax wrote:
Chest Rockwell wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
Chest Rockwell wrote:
I also wonder why the pit has a Fort and Ref save.
It's an object, so that's its resistance to spells that affect objects and allow a save, like shatter or fireball in PF1.
Of course, right on, though I was hoping they would handle objects a bit differently. I do not think objects should have Ref saves, as that is something reactive (dodging out of the way).
Could always flavor it as the object bending/flexing/absorbing the impact or effect instead of it dodging.

Yeah, I can see that, but that makes me picture what happens to an ooze when it's knocked prone in 4th Ed (like the animation at the beginning of Grease); I would think a a fireball simply deal its damage to an object, no chance for the object to dodge, dip, duck, dive...and dodge, to reduce it by half.


Roswynn wrote:
Slamron wrote:
Adding a size or bulk specification to the Pit Trap's Trigger would be helpful. Will the wizard's cat familiar trigger it? Probably not. What about a halfling that only weighs 45 lbs with gear? Probably.

Mmm, personal opinion, we (GMs) can decide for ourselves. Unless no ulterior details are given, the trap is probably meant for small and medium humanoids and other creatures of similar size/bulk/mass/weight.

What I see as more problematic is that we don't know how big an area the spinning blades can cover. But I think that too would be specified in the adventure.

Then there's the Orb. We really know very little about it. It could be any size, anywhere... maybe it's dangling from a chain around the villain's neck, maybe it's on a pedestal, maybe it's a tiny drop of blood hanging in the air at eye level, maybe it's a room-sized angry red gem floating 30ft in the air... I also am not a fan that even a legendary rogue can do what essentially should be a ritual (investing lockpicks with aspects of Asmodeus and Sarenrae, even temporarily) and then use, again, *lockpicks*, to disable what's essentially an utterly magical artefact.

I dunno man.

I agree that I can basically see this as a ritual. Part of me quite likes the lockpicks because it reeks of symbolic usage. Though it would possibly be done best as a combined religion+thievery check?

E.g. the cleric inscribes the symbols and forms a symbolic lock on the ground, while the rogue then attempts to "open" the symbolic lock with the tools long enough to sap the orb through the imagined opening.
I can kind of see a rogue picking up some of the practical aspects of this sort of thing though, if not the theory.


Roswynn wrote:
Slamron wrote:
I do have a question regarding the spinning pillar's stealth. I understand the +10 is there for rolling it's initiative, and to see the control panel the DC is 24. But what is the DC to notice the trap itself when you first enter the room? Is it 10?
I'll try to answer you: it's a complex trap, so it has a Stealth of +10 it rolls for initiative. The same value is used as the number you have to beat to notice it, b/c see, it's Stealth. It works like a monster trying to hide. Clearer now? (Also correct me fellow gamers if I'm being stupid).

Ah, totally makes sense now. Thank you!

Roswynn wrote:


Oh, I understood the *attack range* of the spinning blade, sorry, I didn't explain myself well - what I don't understand is how far it can move. I mean it moves along a grid of grooves in the floor, right? I'd need a brief description like "on a 20x20ft grid", something like that. Btw, when it moves, as of RAW, it doesn't inflict damage if it moves next to you, which I don't think is RAI. That's another thing I think should be clarified (but I'd give a ruling anyways).

My guess is that they wrote it specifically like this so no one gets attacked twice in one round. In the "grid" below, if the the trap starts at the center of ABCD and moves 10' to the center of EFGH, anyone standing in the squares CDEF would get attacked twice if the blades are spinning continuously.

AB
CD
EF
GH

This makes me think of another question. Would this or similar traps provoke attacks of opportunity? I would rule yes, but I'd only be guessing.

Shadow Lodge

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So how exactly does the search portion work for these? Do we need people to walk around with signs saying "I am searching for traps" like pf1 ?

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So how exactly does the search portion work for these? Do we need people to walk around with signs saying "I am searching for traps" like pf1 ?

Well, I'm pretty sure that in exploration mode, the GM asks you if you are searching for traps. So you can ditch the sign, or reuse it if you prefer not to litter the dungeon.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
KingOfAnything wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So how exactly does the search portion work for these? Do we need people to walk around with signs saying "I am searching for traps" like pf1 ?
Well, I'm pretty sure that in exploration mode, the GM asks you if you are searching for traps. So you can ditch the sign, or reuse it if you prefer not to litter the dungeon.

"You're having a hard time spotting traps due to the thick layer of discarded 'I am searching for traps' signs left by previous adventurers...."


BigNorseWolf wrote:
So how exactly does the search portion work for these? Do we need people to walk around with signs saying "I am searching for traps" like pf1 ?

*rolls bluff and sleight of hand checks* "I've have the sign on the whole time!"

Shadow Lodge

So exploration mode works like a dial? you're looking for traps or you're looking for ambushes or you're looking for tracks and the rogue can do 2 at once?


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
So exploration mode works like a dial? you're looking for traps or you're looking for ambushes or you're looking for tracks and the rogue can do 2 at once?

When I was playing at PaizoCon, they told us to pick the primary activity we wanted to be doing in Exploration Mode. The rogue could be 'searching' for free due to a feat they had, so also was able to Sneak at the same time. Valeros was standing guard (me, which allowed me to have my shield readied in the opening round of combat), while most of the others were searching. I suspect you can take feats that allow you to maintain multiple activities in exploration mode if you want to, but we were only playing first level characters.


Benjamin Medrano wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So exploration mode works like a dial? you're looking for traps or you're looking for ambushes or you're looking for tracks and the rogue can do 2 at once?
When I was playing at PaizoCon, they told us to pick the primary activity we wanted to be doing in Exploration Mode. The rogue could be 'searching' for free due to a feat they had, so also was able to Sneak at the same time. Valeros was standing guard (me, which allowed me to have my shield readied in the opening round of combat), while most of the others were searching. I suspect you can take feats that allow you to maintain multiple activities in exploration mode if you want to, but we were only playing first level characters.

Sounds very granular.


Chest Rockwell wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So exploration mode works like a dial? you're looking for traps or you're looking for ambushes or you're looking for tracks and the rogue can do 2 at once?
When I was playing at PaizoCon, they told us to pick the primary activity we wanted to be doing in Exploration Mode. The rogue could be 'searching' for free due to a feat they had, so also was able to Sneak at the same time. Valeros was standing guard (me, which allowed me to have my shield readied in the opening round of combat), while most of the others were searching. I suspect you can take feats that allow you to maintain multiple activities in exploration mode if you want to, but we were only playing first level characters.
Sounds very granular.

*shrugs*

Searching was looking for about anything from ambushes to clues to traps, so it made a lot of sense. I believe the GM went over about a half-dozen common options for Exploration mode, but I only remember four. Standing Guard (not its name, just how I think of it), Sneaking, Searching, and Magically Searching (Detect magic is closer to an instantaneous sonar pulse now, so it's the mage casting it repeatedly to search for magic).


Benjamin Medrano wrote:
Chest Rockwell wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So exploration mode works like a dial? you're looking for traps or you're looking for ambushes or you're looking for tracks and the rogue can do 2 at once?
When I was playing at PaizoCon, they told us to pick the primary activity we wanted to be doing in Exploration Mode. The rogue could be 'searching' for free due to a feat they had, so also was able to Sneak at the same time. Valeros was standing guard (me, which allowed me to have my shield readied in the opening round of combat), while most of the others were searching. I suspect you can take feats that allow you to maintain multiple activities in exploration mode if you want to, but we were only playing first level characters.
Sounds very granular.

*shrugs*

*shrugs*

See, I can do it, too...


Benjamin Medrano wrote:
Chest Rockwell wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So exploration mode works like a dial? you're looking for traps or you're looking for ambushes or you're looking for tracks and the rogue can do 2 at once?
When I was playing at PaizoCon, they told us to pick the primary activity we wanted to be doing in Exploration Mode. The rogue could be 'searching' for free due to a feat they had, so also was able to Sneak at the same time. Valeros was standing guard (me, which allowed me to have my shield readied in the opening round of combat), while most of the others were searching. I suspect you can take feats that allow you to maintain multiple activities in exploration mode if you want to, but we were only playing first level characters.
Sounds very granular.

*shrugs*

Searching was looking for about anything from ambushes to clues to traps, so it made a lot of sense. I believe the GM went over about a half-dozen common options for Exploration mode, but I only remember four. Standing Guard (not its name, just how I think of it), Sneaking, Searching, and Magically Searching (Detect magic is closer to an instantaneous sonar pulse now, so it's the mage casting it repeatedly to search for magic).

I actually like all these rules as it adds a lot of clarity to dungeon exploration and also kind of game-ifys it in an interesting way. I was playing in a friend's 5e game last week and ran into the "problem" of all 5 party members getting perception checks which turned the "swamp of death" into the "swamp of threats everybody sees ahead of time". That paradigm starts to change a bit when searching competes with other cool options.


Excaliburproxy wrote:
I was playing in a friend's 5e game last week and ran into the "problem" of all 5 party members getting perception checks which turned the "swamp of death" into the "swamp of threats everybody sees ahead of time".

That would be a DM problem and lack of applying the exploration pillar rules correctly.


Chest Rockwell wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:
I was playing in a friend's 5e game last week and ran into the "problem" of all 5 party members getting perception checks which turned the "swamp of death" into the "swamp of threats everybody sees ahead of time".
That would be a DM problem and lack of applying the exploration pillar rules correctly.

Could you be more specific?

Should it be stealth checks made against passive perception? I have always found that kind of ruling really odd because it makes it so sneaking past one perceptive guard is just as easy as sneaking past one perceptive guard and his team of 10 slightly less perceptive friends.


Chest Rockwell wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:
Chest Rockwell wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So exploration mode works like a dial? you're looking for traps or you're looking for ambushes or you're looking for tracks and the rogue can do 2 at once?
When I was playing at PaizoCon, they told us to pick the primary activity we wanted to be doing in Exploration Mode. The rogue could be 'searching' for free due to a feat they had, so also was able to Sneak at the same time. Valeros was standing guard (me, which allowed me to have my shield readied in the opening round of combat), while most of the others were searching. I suspect you can take feats that allow you to maintain multiple activities in exploration mode if you want to, but we were only playing first level characters.
Sounds very granular.

*shrugs*

*shrugs*

See, I can do it, too...

I was trying to share my experiences and give context based on trying the playtest. I suppose I won't do that anymore.


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All in all, the traps look pretty cool. Armageddon Orb especially tickles my fancy.

Having traps roll Stealth makes sense. The notation feels counterintuitive, though that may be force of habit.

Some traps could benefit from involving more skills. Magical traps, like disarming Armageddon Orb with a gruiling Thievery or Arcana check.

I don't think the trap DCs should be so proficiency level dependant. It's more to spend time on for resolving traps and more to think about when character building and neither in a way that seems fun to me. Personally, I'd rather have most traps that care only care if you were trained or not. Do you actually know how use those thieve's tools? Okay, good to go! The Armageddon Orb, though, seems like a perfect exception. An epic trap should take a legendary (and fireproof) thief.

I do like the the haunt having a lower DC for using Religion as opposed to Diplomacy. Going with my previous suggestion, you'd have to be trained in Religion to get the lower DC but be able to Diplomacize untrained at a higher DC.

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Chest Rockwell wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:
Chest Rockwell wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So exploration mode works like a dial? you're looking for traps or you're looking for ambushes or you're looking for tracks and the rogue can do 2 at once?
When I was playing at PaizoCon, they told us to pick the primary activity we wanted to be doing in Exploration Mode. The rogue could be 'searching' for free due to a feat they had, so also was able to Sneak at the same time. Valeros was standing guard (me, which allowed me to have my shield readied in the opening round of combat), while most of the others were searching. I suspect you can take feats that allow you to maintain multiple activities in exploration mode if you want to, but we were only playing first level characters.
Sounds very granular.

*shrugs*

*shrugs*

See, I can do it, too...

We are all very happy that you have working shoulders.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I wish I had working shoulders... show-offs...


Excaliburproxy wrote:
Chest Rockwell wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:
I was playing in a friend's 5e game last week and ran into the "problem" of all 5 party members getting perception checks which turned the "swamp of death" into the "swamp of threats everybody sees ahead of time".
That would be a DM problem and lack of applying the exploration pillar rules correctly.

Could you be more specific?

Should it be stealth checks made against passive perception? I have always found that kind of ruling really odd because it makes it so sneaking past one perceptive guard is just as easy as sneaking past one perceptive guard and his team of 10 slightly less perceptive friends.

Well, in exploration, you generally are not all constantly checking for enemies (it's also an Action to make a Perception check, and only the DM calls for one), one is navigating, one is looking out, one is maybe tracking, mapping, one is gathering/hunting. Also, if you are trying to be stealthy as you explore, you move at half speed, otherwise you are crashing around, and they might hear you before you see them. Stealth rules are rather loose in 5th Ed, on purpose, much to some's chagrin.

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