Second Darkness beer and pretzles (Inactive)

Game Master drbuzzard

Second Darkness converted to PF with gestalt rogues.

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Ok, I've got this AP sitting around, and I've never run it. Figure I probably should since I paid for it.

Second Darkness is an older AP from before the Pathfinder rules. Hence I will have to change all the encounters anyway. Thus it doesn't much matter what I allow the players to build.

Now before visions of Rifts dance through your head, I'm not going to go that far. I think I will permit a limited gestalt. One side has to be a core rogue (no archetype, no unchained, no ninja). As all the characters start as lesser members of the local thieves guild in Riddleport, tacking that onto one side of a character makes it easy to justify a background. It will also permit everyone to be heavy on skills which is always nice. I think I will be going with the advanced bonus progression (the chart but at +2 level) from Unchained, and just drop out most of the magic items. This means easier balance for me and less to convert. I will likely toss in some flavor stuff items, but nothing for basic stat stuff.

I expect very regular posting. Now this doesn't mean you have to pipe up if there's no reason for your character to do something, but when I'm calling for initiative I expect a response. You should be checking in at least daily so combats can proceed (unless I am given warning). I run fast paced games and spend far too much time on these forums. I prefer to keep things moving.

I run a more beer and pretzel style game than deep roleplaying. I will tend to run things with plenty of smartass comments and out of genre references. That's just fair warning.

Character creation:
1st level
core races
Gestalt but one side is core rogue, no archetypes
20 point buy ((yes, you actually will have to make choices)
no magic item crafting allowed
no gunslingers
No sound strikers.
Chain Challenge is banned. Sap adept and Sap master are banned.
No evil alignments
HP are PFS style so 1/2 max +1.
unchained summoners only
Paizo Pathfinder only (don't go digging back in 3.5 stuff)
I am not going to stack sneak attack from multiple classes on different sides of the gestalt (so if you do slayer/rogue, no extra dice for you).

I'll give recruitment a week or so.

I'll need a build and a short background. You're first level so your bio should be a paragraph not a novel.


Are there any restrictions on deities? I seem to be on a divine kick.


Oh, I forgot, no evil characters.

I'm not going to restrict deities, but if you you pick something off the wall like Rovagug or Old Ones, there will be consequences.

Liberty's Edge

I think I can propose something good here...


I think ill submit a half-orc fighter(2-hand)/rogue.. I've always wanted to sneak attack with an earthbreaker.. Prob end up sap master feat chain..

I have a smilar character that I played in a fail King Maker group.. Seems like a good time to repurpose him..

Any traits? Starting gold?


Hmm, I should probably kill sap master stuff as well, that really gets carried away.


Boo.. I might have to revise depending on what others build then..


I should also mention that Chain Challenge is banned.


Traits? Starting gold?

Free mwk theives tools since we're in a thieves guild and all right?


Rough draft.. See if anything stands out as bad..

Sorta Hard Pipe Hitter..:

Half-Orc Fighter 1 (Two Hand Fighter)/Rogue 1 (Gestalt)
N Medium Humanoid (Orc, Human)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +5
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC: 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +2 dex)
Hp: 13 (1d10+3)
Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +4
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed: 30 ft.
Melee: Earthbreaker +5 (2d6+9/20x3) or
Whip +5 (1d2+6)(+7 to trip, disarm)(15' reach)
Ranged: Light Crossbow +3 (1d8/19-20x2)
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +1d6
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 7
Base: Atk +1; CMB +5 CMD 17
Feats: Furious Focus, Power Attack(-1/+3)
Rogue Tricks:
Traits: Fates Favored, Reactionary
Skills: Climb +7, Disable Device +6, K(Dung.) +5, K(Local) +7, Perception +5(+7 vs secret doors/+8 vs traps), Sense Motive +5, Stealth +5, Survival +5, Swim +7
Languages Common, Orc, +1
SQ Sneak Attack
Other Gear Earthbreaker, Light Crossbow, Studded Leather Armor, Cold Iron Bolts (20), Bedroll, Manacles, Thieves' tools, 50' Rope, Grapple Hook, Chalk x5, Rations x2(trail), Waterskin, Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath x2(2 daggers), Dagger x6(4 are on a bandolier, 2 in wrist sheath)
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
City Raised +2 knowledge local and whip proficency.
Sacred Tattoo +2 luck bonus to saving throws.
Scavenger +2 appraise, +2 perception vs hidden stuffs.
Trapfinding +1 perception to find traps, +1 disable device


Why would you force everyone to go rogue then ban all the cool rogue stuff? That just seems extremly odd... There are a lot more powerful things available than sap master. Having some people focusing on their rogue side would only be fitting for a thives guild. Also I think archtypes would allow for way more diversity in characters. Diversity is a good thing as it allow people to shine/take the spotlight at different times rather fight for it at the same time. Fighting for spotlight leads to unhappy players as they don't get to show what they are good at.

If archtypes were allowed I might consider an underground chemist bomb user or a thug intimidate build, but now both of those options are much less interesting.

How do you feel about arcane trickster? Thinking wizard 4 -> arcane trickster on the other side, probably an evoker, though with plenty illusions thrown in.


Just confirming that we can take archetypes on the other side of the gestalt (i.e. Not the rogue side)


You can take archetypes on the non rogue side.

2 traits. No drawbacks.

I an not inclined to allow prestige classes as some of those get ridiculous in gestalt.


I will be Conan.

I don't know how I'll build it but I can tell you, Mister, that I will build a good ol' thief and barbarian Conan

P.s.- I didn't get to finish reading OP because Conan possessed me. Now that I did, I want more than ever to be Conan in this beer and pretzel with smartass DM remarks. Good Crom I do.


Then BY CROM you shall.


I've started, you hyrkanian dog! But even Crom's gift of strength doesn't help when I try to handle all this awesomeness!
Must be a wizard trick!

(Gonna put a lot of 14s around. Big C is great in almost everything and I want to pay him some due respect. Expect a short background and partial to full build in the next hour and half, two at most)


I must admit I'm curious where one would place Conan in Golarion. Land of the Mammoth Riders? Among the Shoanti? Land of the Linnorm Kings?

I'll wait and see.


Just to be clear, I am currently the only one whose idea includes any sort of healing, right? I am just trying to decide if I should aim for a primary or secondary healer?


So far we have you, a barb/rogue and a fighter/rogue, so nobody else can heal as yet.


thoughts on uncommon races.

Maybe a tiefling with an alternate type.

Or a Duergar?


I said core races.


Had this swashbuckler lying around from a Second Darkness game that didn't last.


Now you just need to gestalt in rogue.


I'm interested, but I've never built a gestalt character. I'd be willing to take a shot if you're up to look at it. I was thinking based on what others have mentioned, gestalting (is that a word?) with a blaster type sorcerer.

Edit: Human (Ulfen) for race.


Yeah, I can check it over (or simply build it in Hero Lab to check it over). I'd hate to actually have to build a character by hand these days.

Liberty's Edge

Conan? Numeria, of course.

I will do a Thief/Cleric of Besmara.

Ahoy!


Looking at the rules on the SRD since I'm at work, it seems pretty straightforward. I'll try to get you a build to look at by tomorrow. I've got a background thought out already based on one I didn't use before for an Ulfan oracle.

The Exchange

I'd like to go with a half-elf brawler/rogue. A real bully type. I'm assuming alternate racial traits are in.
Would you reconsider allowing rogue archetypes? I'd really like to go thug. I don't think everyone needs trapfinding.


o sorry, missed that when reading on my phone. even went back and looked a second and third time.


D-Kal wrote:

I'd like to go with a half-elf brawler/rogue. A real bully type. I'm assuming alternate racial traits are in.

Would you reconsider allowing rogue archetypes? I'd really like to go thug. I don't think everyone needs trapfinding.

he said no archetypes for the rogue


This will be my submission. Still working out the basic crunch, but he is more or less done.


Sorry for the delay, had to do some stuff less interesting than CONAAAAAN

I'm half way through, definitely barbrogue. Couldn't decide if I wanted an axonan or swordnan so I picked a falcata and called it a day.

Grand Lodge

What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie?
I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky.
The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.

Had to add it... god that poem makes my heart pump

Hailing from the far away lands of Numeria comes a young man. Forsaken from their tribe, a proud kellid in its own right.

Kronug, Kronug's father, was the last lord of the tribe, and he died when Kronug was only a child. But he taught his son about the barbarian's true ways, he taught him to live by his sword and keep his kellid honor.

When his uncle and actual leader of the tribe, Cassius, ruled that they were to train with the new weapons that merchants brought Kronug stood his ground. He is a proud man! He is a kellid and the son of his father! He were to live and die by the riddle of steel, not using cowardly firearms built for lesser man.

He had to leave or he would have been killed. Leaving his land was painful, but he maintained his and his father's honour.

By luck or by Crom's will Kronug arrived at Riddleport unscathed, safe and sound. There he had to learn the "ways" of civilization, to "respect" others' property and to make some friends.

He is for now a member of the thief guild, but he dreams of one day coming back to Numeria and fight his uncle for the right to lead his kin. For the right to be a true kellid and son of his father.

Read Me:

This is Emissary's submition: Kronug. It's simple and, I hope, not that long. But it has the feel I wanted: that of the true ways of men, back before the ruin that is civilization fell upon us. Kronug is selfless in general, but would give his life for those he consider his friends.

I want to make a point clear: I swear to Crom I won't abuse Chaotic Neutral. Kronug isn't a murder hobo nor a Chaotic Randumb: He has a strong code of honor but doesn't like the chains of civilization. He's a free spirit and a man of action. He's Conan, gudammit!

I hope you enjoyed reading it and checking his "build" as much as I did writing and building him


Yep, I'll get to the crunch.

Here's a little vignette showing his backstory.

Spoiler:

"Here you go, Smeed," Devon said as he threw down a small sack of coins. There was a hint of satisfaction in his voice, but he kept his cool. Getting out from under the debt of Lymas Smeed had been a long time in coming, and he had no desire to drag out this exchange.
The loanshark undid the strings and dumped the contents on the table. He did not look happy, despite the large number of coins that formed the pile. "Coppers? Really?" he sneered.
Devon straightened his shoulders and cleared his voice. "There's plenty of silver in there. And quite a few gold as well. Go ahead and count it; it's all there."

"My time is worth so much more than counting these bleeding coppers. You've just cost yourself another ten gold by insulting me like this."

"You have got to be kidding me! It's not like most of these flea-infested sailors gamble with anything better than coppers," the rakish human gestured at the glinting pile.

Smeed gave him a look of contempt. "Not my problem. You needed funding for the big score? You live under my terms. And my terms mean no flipping coppers!"

Devon looked at him dubiously. Smeed seemed to have forgotten to mention that when the original deal was done. He winced inwardly, making sure it didn't register on his face. The deal was supposed to set him up for a long time. Devon had needed the coin to grease a few palms so that the big concave lens made at the Sandpoint Glassworks got to the Cyphermages. It was a beautiful piece that he had hidden in the bottom of a wine barrel. From the Publican House to the Cypher Lodge, a nice bit of smuggling that would have paid off Smeed's loan three times over. If only he hadn't made that tiny wager with Arnando Rolf...

Devon felt his fingers ache for the feel of the hilt of his rapier, but he resisted. It was absolutely not worth it. Instead, he reached into his boot cuff and pulls out a small number of coins. He slaps them down on the table. "Five gold. Best I can do; best you'll get from me. We're done here."

Devon ignored Smeed's curses and threats as he stood and pushed away from the table. He hustled out of the seedy tavern and avoided the eyes of what had to be his hired goons. Stepping out into the light of the street, he pushed his way through the crowd, hoping to put some distance between Smeed's men and himself. Cutting down alleys and working his way through Riddleport, he took several twists and turns before allowing him to think he got away. He figured -- well, hoped, really -- that Smeed only wanted to rough him up and not give him the snickersnak, but he wanted to avoid that entirely. Especially since he had held out on him, and kept a few gold in reserve.

He reached a small plaza where a shiny new gambling hall stood. Well, new-ish. Probably just renovated, but it looked promising. Catching a glimpse of a couple of Smeed's men out of the corner of his eye, the decision was made. He put on a broad smile, strode up to the front of the hall and produced a gold coin.

"Evening, gentlemen. Where do I sign up?"


drbuzzard wrote:

You can take archetypes on the non rogue side.

2 traits. No drawbacks.

I an not inclined to allow prestige classes as some of those get ridiculous in gestalt.

I'll go wizard or sorcerer or witch then. I'll see what speaks to me the most. I kinda feel like focusing on touch spells to sneak with, magus or arcanist might be another option..


Quote:
I should also mention that Chain Challenge is banned.
Quote:
I an not inclined to allow prestige classes as some of those get ridiculous in gestalt.

Why do I feel like you're talking to me?

Are occult classes ok?


Yes, I think Occult are OK, though I am a touch paranoid about the interaction of the kineticist and sneak attack.


I have actually never seen anyone play a psionic character. Someday I will have to learn how they work.


Quote:
Yes, I think Occult are OK, though I am a touch paranoid about the interaction of the kineticist and sneak attack.

I was thinking either Occultist or Spiritualist.


Either of hose are fine.


MiniGM wrote:
I have actually never seen anyone play a psionic character. Someday I will have to learn how they work.

(I assume you mean the Occult classes, not 3rd party). I have the book, and have read parts. Basically I have come to the conclusion that a hell of a lore more reading is in order. That book is a non trivial expansion of the rules.

Dark Archive

Starting money?


Yea I mean occult


D-Kal here, ended up with a half-orc instead.

Background:
A half-orc from Belkzen, Marckus assimilated a culture steeped in tribal customs and racial pride. However, no matter how much he embraced his orc heritage, his orc family never fully embraced him due to his human side. Instead of becoming a tribal warrior, he was pushed out of the clan and bounced from city to city, from pit fights to tavern brawls, from picking pockets to burglarizing homes. As with anyone of his particular skills and repute, he found himself right at home in Riddleport. Specifically, his potential as an enforcer was noticed by the right people (or the wrong people), and he ended up as a promising new member of the thieves' guild.


say 150 GP for starting money.


Updated. Not much to add for Swashbuckler/Rogue gestalt. That's fine, though. He's very much a roguish swashbuckler, anyway.

Dark Archive

Thanks.


So what is the dwarfiest two handed weapon? The Dorn durgar?

Leaning towards using that since it looks like it doesn't have to be a reach weapon. Could be fun


It certainly is a neat weapon. Stereotype for dwarves would say hammer or dwarven waraxe though.

Nice thing about the dorn dergar is that with darting viper it can be switched from reach to normal as a swift.


yea, i was thinking the hammer or ax as the standard. But when reading the description of the Dorn Derger, it says it was invented by dwarves but has allen out of use and only those who cling to the old ways.

I didnt know about darting viper...I would have to grab a copy of Dwarves of golarion, but thats easy enough.

Ya sold me Buzz

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