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It is summer, but rumors of unseasonable pockets of winter in the Border Wood have drawn you to the small village of Heldren in the nation of Taldor. It’s surely no coincidence that this is the time when the Queen of Witches, Baba Yaga, is scheduled to return to the frozen land of Irrisen.
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-Sources: all Paizo-published; 3rd party on a case-by-case
-Level: 2 Gestalt
-Race: Any
-Class: Any
-Statistics: 25 point-buy.
-Alignment: No evil.
-Traits: 3, 1 of which must be a campaign trait.
-HP: Max every level
-Starting gold: 1000g
-Feats: 1 extra at 1st level; every even level gives a non-combat/non-metamagic feat
-Skills: Background Skills variant
-Items: Innate Bonus variant
-Free feats (if you qualify for them, you have them): Power Attack, Combat Expertise
The characters are intended to be high-powered as the party will be small and I also want to be able to have some 'kitchen sink' moments.
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Despite this being an adventure path,I'd like to personalize somethings for the characters. With that in mind... Not all of the following need to be answered, but are here to provide inspiration for both you and me:
-What was your childhood like?
-What is your relationship to the gods and religion?
-What is your physical appearance, bearing, mannerisms, and quirks?
-Do you have an easy way with strangers?
-Do you play well with others?
-What draws you to the life of an adventurer?
-Do you identify with a particular animal or element?
-What do you find creepy?
-What specific goals do you have, if any?
-What secrets do you have?
-What does someone else know about you that you do not?
-Do the ends justify the means?
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I'll be choosing only 3 players in order to keep the pace brisk, preferably at least 1 post/day on weekdays with the usual caveats. Assuming there is enough interest, the deadline is 11:59 pm, 1/8.
Oh wow. This sounds like fun
Goblin Silver Champion (Paladin) and ranger
dotting in. Thinking ranger with a basis on crossbows. not sure for the side of the gestalt just yet.
GM, would you be willing to allow crossbows the same type of strength rating longbows can get?
Can I get an assessment on whether the Nightblade would be allowed?
Definitely interested. Probably will go with something fiery; a pyrokineticist, flames oracle, etc, paired with something more combat oriented like a fighter or barbarian. Probably.
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TLW- In essence, composite crossbows? If so, tentative yes since I can't think of a reason not to.
Yorick- I'm going with no since I think gestalt covers the 2 classes in 1 character idea and I am unfamiliar with it.
Preemptively,2 questions that often come up:
Are prestige classes approved? - Yes, though it needs to stay on 1 side of your gestalt.
Are templates approved? - No, that's where I draw the power creep line. =)
I'll give it a shot. I tend to like front liners. Maybe a paladin/fighter or fighter/slayer.
Sort of depends on if healing or trapfinding is more needed.
On the template thing
Can we work for one in game? For instance like the vampire or lich on in way of the wicked?
drduzzard, why not a cleric/fighter? :p
and yeah, I would say that due to the design of a crossbow however, if you lacked to strength to pull it back you wouldn't be able to use it, or reloading it would require double the time amount and not be subject to rapid reload feat. (Up to you on this part, or simply apply the negative longbow gets) I would make the one caveat however that if at any point anyone gains dex to damage with crossbows (such as bolt ace) they do not benefit from the strength equivalent. (however again, that is up to you to decide.)
Just to clarify, my build will be focused on a ranged harrier =^^=
Dot.
I love a good gestalt game... I was running one for a while (RotRL) but lost too many players (and didn't want to go through another recruitment). Not sure what I'll submit yet but thinking maybe a dorn duergar wielding dwarven ranger/inquisitor? Or maybe some kind of fighter/investigator? Always too many ideas for gestalt...
Thinking about a Bard/Cleric of Desna
Would you consider third party stuff, particularly Forrestfire's Avowed and/or the Daevic class from Akashic Mysteries, a Dreamscarred Press supplement?
Dot! Thinking of a winter witch/something else. Possibly druid? Not sure. I've always wanted to run Reign of Winter with a winter witch though.
Okay, np, just checking. Character still the same =^^=
Anyone have an idea how much of the AP is outdoors? Thinking about a 'pet' class, maybe going into Mammoth Rider. Seems like it could be really thematic, but if my huge tiger (or whatever) is stuck outside for half the AP, it'd be kinda pointless.
Seth-No to templates.
Atokos- Sorry, no. I'm not inclined to learn whole new classes and their abilities, power level, etcetera at the moment.
What 3rd party do you know? Have you played any with Psionics or Path of War? If so, would you be willing to allow anything from either?
If not, Paizo only is cool too.
My only attempt to play RoW didn't even get to the end of the first book, so I'd love to see how it goes.
Seth-No to templates.
Atokos- Sorry, no. I'm not inclined to learn whole new classes and their abilities, power level, etcetera at the moment.
What 3rd party do you know? Have you played any with Psionics or Path of War? If so, would you be willing to allow anything from either?
If not, Paizo only is cool too.
My only attempt to play RoW didn't even get to the end of the first book, so I'd love to see how it goes.
That was to be my next question.
I'll admit to some curiosity, RoW always seemed a delightfully weird AP. Probably apply with a Cavalier/Warpriest of Tolc.
A Psionic Warrior//Monk of some flavor, I think, could be fun in that case, or perhaps a Zen Archer//Marksman.
Edit: I'm sure, by the time I've settled on a concept, it won't remotely resemble anything I'm mentioning here, now.
With Power Attack and Combat Expertise auto granted, what about Deadly Aim?
Never played in a gestalt game, very interested.
Xexik
Goblin paladin (silver champion) 2/ranger (ilsurian archer) 2/gestalt 2 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of Dragons 25, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 156, Weapon Master's Handbook 6)
LG Small humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception -2
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +1 size)
hp 24 (2d10+4)
Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +3; +2 trait bonus vs. effects that cause sleep or paralysis
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee dagger +4 (1d3+4/19-20) or
. . dogslicer +4 (1d4+4/19-20)
Ranged mwk composite shortbow +7/+7 (1d4+2/×3)
Special Attacks combat style (archery), smite evil 1/day (+2 attack and AC, +2 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +4)
. . At will—detect evil
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 20, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 7, Cha 14
Base Atk +2; CMB +2; CMD 18
Feats Bullseye Shot, Extra Lay on Hands, Point-Blank Shot, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
Traits blood of dragons, mathematical prodigy, restless wayfarer
Skills Climb +5, Knowledge (engineering) +3, Knowledge (geography) +3, Knowledge (nature) +2, Knowledge (religion) +2, Profession (engineer) +2, Ride +12, Stealth +16, Survival +2, Swim +5; Racial Modifiers +4 Ride, +4 Stealth
Languages Common, Goblin
SQ dragon magic, lay on hands 5/day (1d6)
Other Gear mwk chain shirt, mwk heavy steel shield, arrows (40), dagger, dogslicer[ARG], mwk composite shortbow (+2 Str), backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, canteen[UE], fishhook (2), flint and steel, mug/tankard, sewing needle, signal whistle, string or twine[APG], thread (50 ft.), trail rations (7), waterskin, whetstone, 31 gp
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Special Abilities
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Bullseye Shot You slow your breath, calm yourself, and hit the bullseye, just as you were trained to.
Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: You can spend a move action to steady your shot. When yo
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Dragon Magic Spell list limited to only Apsu's domain spells.
Lay on Hands (1d6 hit points, 5/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) +2 to hit, +2 to damage, +2 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Will get background in soon
I've played in two different gestalt games that allowed psionics and/or path of war and both times the character(s) that used those were fairly broken...
I'm going to keep working on a submission but I think I'd rather not be chosen if you pick people using those.
Sounds like fun.
With prestige classes sticking to one side, what about making up lost caster levels? Like if I wanted to be an arcane archer? Without gestalt, I'd need to take 6 levels of ranger, and then a level of wizard. Would I be able to take wizard on one side, ranger on the other side, then take arcane archer at 7th? Many PrC's have levels where a caster doesn't progress in casting that level, could we dip the caster class on the other side to maintain caster level progression equal to character level?
Point to consider with crossbows.
The reason crossbows take multiple turns to ready, and don't use a strength modifier, is because they already have this built in.
The benefit of a crossbow was that it generally allowed a higher strength rating than a longbow due to the physics of the lever or crank needed to pull the string back.
This is why a heavy crossbow is a d10 damage, it has a higher strength rating than a light crossbow. Notice that the description for a heavy crossbow states you are using a winch to pull back the string.
Keep in mind that a character's strength has ZERO impact on firing a crossbow.
That's also why strength 8 characters use a crossbow. Their strength has no impact on getting the bolt to the target.
The idea I was getting at however was that the ones that receive a bonus on rolls due to a strength rating would have a more taunt bowstring, which would give more force/punch to the bolt than other crossbows. Due to that, a greater strength would be needed to reload a crossbow, even with a wrench. Which was why I suggested what I did. You could even just make them a separate entry and have them work as "Martial weapons". Thus limiting them further.
I've played in two different gestalt games that allowed psionics and/or path of war and both times the character(s) that used those were fairly broken...
I'm going to keep working on a submission but I think I'd rather not be chosen if you pick people using those.
The broken thing about those characters were the Templates, Mythic abilities, and THIRD class added on, not the classes themselves, if they're the games I'm thinking of.
Psionics is infinitely harder to break than magic, and Path of War isn't anywhere near as powerful as even Psionics.
I've played in two different gestalt games that allowed psionics and/or path of war and both times the character(s) that used those were fairly broken...
I'm going to keep working on a submission but I think I'd rather not be chosen if you pick people using those.
The broken thing about those characters were the Templates, Mythic abilities, and THIRD class added on, not the classes themselves, if they're the games I'm thinking of.
Psionics is infinitely harder to break than magic, and Path of War isn't anywhere near as powerful as even Psionics.
I suppose it also falls along the lines of what you consider broken. :P I know my old DM when I was first starting out would likely ban a character using the Barbarian Beast totem for pounce and call him a munchkin(albeit, in good humor for the last bit unless it was "repeat" offenses). Much less anything above that.
its probably not the games you're thinking of, Sundakan (I expect everything to be broken in template/tristalt), these were 'standard' gestalt games. And the issue, in fairness, wasn't necessarily anything wrong with the class/system itself, but they seemed more susceptible to exploitation than paizo classes.
Some of the classes do pair exceptionally well with Gestalt (like Cryptic and Alchemist for ALL the permabuffs!), but the same could be said for a lot of gestalt goodies (Druid/Monk, anyone?).
The only time with gestalt Psionics I feel like what I got was a little much was the Psion/Alchemist/Metamorph who could change forms every round and be Huge forever, which is a lot less powerful when you restrict Prestige Classes to needing to qualify entirely on one side of the gestalt. Stuff gets nuts when you allow that.
Anyway, two character options I'm considering are a crazy survivalist shapeshifter or a "breaker" (he breaks magic, objects, people...) witch hunter.
I wish I could remember specific examples... one of them was some kind of psychic warrior who at second or third level had an AC in the mid to high 20s, could punch for more damage than a greatsword, and had other powers for like mobility and stuff. I don't know... part of it, for me, may be frustration too- I know the paizo rules pretty well so when someone does something crazy I can either be impressed at how they put it together or point out their mistake, when people do outrageous things with 3pp all i can do is wonder if they've misunderstood something or are exploiting an interaction that the developers probably never considered.
Is VMC allowed?
trying to decide between an alchemist/Occultist, a crossbow focused fighter or some form of Kineticist/...something.
I wish I could remember specific examples... one of them was some kind of psychic warrior who at second or third level had an AC in the mid to high 20s, could punch for more damage than a greatsword, and had other powers for like mobility and stuff. I don't know... part of it, for me, may be frustration too- I know the paizo rules pretty well so when someone does something crazy I can either be impressed at how they put it together or point out their mistake, when people do outrageous things with 3pp all i can do is wonder if they've misunderstood something or are exploiting an interaction that the developers probably never considered.
Yeah, I think it's more a matter of you not knowing the rules as well for 3PP stuff. The only thing about the Psywar I'm not sure about is the 2d6 Unarmed damage, and I think the AC was a mistake (he probably gestalted Meditant and Monk and added Wis to his AC twice or something, along with AC buffs like Mind Armor buffed with extra points).
Mmm interesting! I rather like the flavor of my little warrior poet, I hope he doesn't prove too powerful.
-What was your childhood like?
Short. I was happy, I remember that always dancing, and sharing stories. Until my parents were killed by bandits. Then I was packed off to Oppara to live with Aunt Lucy. When we didn't see eye to eye, she packed me off to the academe and every summer I was sent to study in Absolom. I was angry, as only impetuous youth can be. But there listening to the sagas about about the gods something struck a chord...
-What is your relationship to the gods and religion?
There are a great many gods, and goddesses. Some noble and worthy of respect like Iomadae, others such as Zon Kuthon deserve only contempt. Of all the pantheon, the one I hold dear to my heart is Saranrae. It's through her teaching I learned to let go of the hate that was building in my heart. She is temperance and patience in all things, compassion and peace are her greatest virtues. Yet there is a fire in my heart and hers for those who will not repent!
After graduating from the academe I spent years purifying myself with studying at the tempering hall. Eventually I took my vows and I never looked back!
-What is your physical appearance, bearing, mannerisms, and quirks?
Lithe, wiry, I can move like a dancer, quick with a smile or encouraging word. I tend to keep my hair short and my beard shorter. I know if my saber is sharp enough to cut my beared, it's sharp enough to deal with those who have devoted themselves to evil.
What I truly love is to tell a story, particularly to children. The look of delight on their faces is magical!
-Do you have an easy way with strangers?
But of course! Oppara is quite the melting pot, I met many strangers and befriended more than a few! Many proved to have interesting stories to tell...
-Do you play well with others?
I did lean to play in an ensemble although I always preferred a solo performance. That's not what you meant is it? No I value strong hearts at my side!
-What draws you to the life of an adventurer?
My roots were cut when I was young. I have never been one to stay anywhere for long, perhaps that's why? Or maybe it's because I love stories... While being passed around between relatives I grew up on tales of knightly honor and derring-do!
-Do you identify with a particular animal or element?
Fire! I worship Saranrae, what did you expect! :)
-What do you find creepy?
Shadows, the dark - particularly when I can't see. I once saw a wayang shadow puppet show, ugh there was something about it that was just wrong! I had to leave!
-What specific goals do you have, if any?
To travel and see more of the world!
-What secrets do you have?
I'm scared that I may not be worthy for the trust Saranrae has placed in me. Yet she knows my heart!
-What does someone else know about you that you do not?
River is not my real name. I was borne in Westcrown named Kaleb Arvanxi. My parents where assassinated as an attempt to intimidate my grandfather Aberian Arvanxi, it didn't work.
-Do the ends justify the means?
Mmm that's complicated! Usually no, but there are exceptions. For example sacraficing oneself is generally frowned upon, but if by doing so you save an innocent then perhaps it could be justified.
River
Human bard (dawnflower dervish) 2/paladin (tempered champion) 2/gestalt 2 (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic 34, Weapon Master's Handbook 7)
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +4
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 15 (+5 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 24 (2d10+4)
Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +6; +2 morale bonus vs. charm and fear effects, +4 vs. bardic performance, language-dependent, and sonic
Resist cold 2
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee mwk scimitar +9 (1d6+6/18-20)
Special Attacks bardic performance 10 rounds/day (countersong, distraction, fascinate [DC 15], inspire courage +1), battle dance: inspire courage, smite evil 1/day (+4 attack and AC, +2 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +6)
. . At will—detect evil
Bard (Dawnflower Dervish) Spells Known (CL 2nd; concentration +6)
. . 1st (3/day)—feather step[APG] (DC 15), silent image (DC 15), windy escape[ARG]
. . 0 (at will)—daze (DC 14), detect magic, ghost sound (DC 14), light, read magic
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 18
Base Atk +2; CMB +4; CMD 15
Feats Arcane Strike, Dervish Dance[ISWG], Spellsong[UM], Weapon Focus (scimitar)
Traits axe to grind, restless wayfarer, savant
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+0 to jump), Intimidate +9, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (local) +7, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +4, Perform (dance) +9, Perform (oratory) +11, Spellcraft +6, Use Magic Device +9
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven
SQ lay on hands 5/day (1d6), versatile performance (oratory)
Other Gear scale mail, mwk scimitar, 150 gp
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Bardic Performance (standard action, 10 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Battle Dance: Inspire Courage +2 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Energy Resistance, Cold (2) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Lay on Hands (1d6 hit points, 5/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) +4 to hit, +2 to damage, +4 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spellsong Combine spellcasting and bardic performance
Versatile Performance (Oratory) +11 (Ex) You may substitute the final value of your Perform: Oratory skill for Diplomacy or Sense Motive checks
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@Fang- I love pally/bard.
@GM- one of the ideas I was tossing around is a vaguely Thor-esque character and I was thinking about possibly a barbarian/kineticist, but I'm having trouble finding info on how they interact... based on its description, it seems like they can't gather energy while raging but can they use their simple blasts? What about infusions?
@2016- you are really just the worst.
Blasts are Su right? In that case they can't, however in my perusing I had considered something similar, a rogue like kineticist using barbarian with the urban barbarian archetype. (which lets you use your blasts and other abilities IIRC) and basically flavor it as intense focus.
As an aside GM, would you be open to letting Aether's kinetic blast if used with telekinetic Blade work as others? In this case merely allow him to form the desired weapon from pure strands of Aether? (mechanically, it would count exactly the same) Not entirely sure I will go this route but I am starting to enjoy the idea of the ranged skill monkey. (slieght of hand/disable device/ eventual mind lifting of 100s/1000s of pounds etc)
Su abilities are usable in a Rage just fine. Some Rage Powers are Su after all.
Blasts, unfortunately, are spell-like however. They cannot be used.
I was just coming to post that... Sadly, yes, blasts are Sp so cannot be used in rage. Also, I believe you need the Force Blast compound blast to do what you (Lizwiz) are describing... otherwise you have to hold something (which honestly is better because you don't threaten normally but if you hold a real weapon to augment then you will).
Given this realization I'm certainly abandoning that idea- still a dozen or so more to sift through though...
I was just coming to post that... Sadly, yes, blasts are Sp so cannot be used in rage. Also, I believe you need the Force Blast compound blast to do what you (Lizwiz) are describing... otherwise you have to hold something (which honestly is better because you don't threaten normally but if you hold a real weapon to augment then you will).
Given this realization I'm certainly abandoning that idea- still a dozen or so more to sift through though...
actually, if you go unchained barbarian you can take Calm stance, which allows you to use all your abilities while raging (no benefit save temp HP, but you get the d12 hit die)
and, well, the idea I was going for would be to act as it normally does, however just dress it aesthetically as him forming a blade of pure Aether. For his normal blast he will be throwing playing cards for slashing, toothpicks for piercing, and marbles for bludgeoning.
I've just been working on the same Barbarian/Kineticist concept, as it happens. Weird. I was going to go Mad Dog, though. Ride around on a mount, freeing my move action for Gather Power all the time, acting mostly as a sort of bizarre mounted archer. Probably wouldn't rage much at all unless they got in close. Thus my earlier question about the viability of Mammoth Rider in this AP.
Why Mad Dog if you're just going to mount up? You could go Druid and buff your AC to the gills, or Hunter and get those ranged Teamwork feats to coordinate with.
Full BAB + d12s. Kineticist already gets 3/4ths and d8, so Druid and Hunter are a wash there. Granted, the spellcasting should more than outweigh the gain from Barbarian, and that's before we talk Wildshape, Animal Focus, etc, but...eh. I wasn't looking for a powerful caster, I was looking for something to give a Kineticist better BAB and HD with a mount. Could go Ranger, I guess.
Paladin maybe? That sweet Smite damage is a welcome addition to any Blast.
Yeah- I was looking at wading into melee with lightning and steel, so the combo's not gonna work for me (have fun with it)
Paladin maybe? That sweet Smite damage is a welcome addition to any Blast.
Eh, not a bad idea, but I was planning on making him a Milanite, since I hear there's a connection in the AP. Reviewing Inner Sea Faiths, Rangers are prominent in Milani's faith (even many of her clergy are Rangers rather than clerics), so I think I'll go that direction.