Just completed my first micro-adventure as a level 1 character. Before I go to level 2, am I allowed to respec my character, like you can before level 2 in PFS?
Just want confirmation if we can sell/trade spells with each other?
Oh, and Kale:
Sure, that's a good rule. You can tweak your character after the first mission, before you level up the first time. [link]
Also, when there's the time, might I suggest that how HP is done be explicitly stated in the Campaign Info? I think it's done PFS-style (half max + 1) but it's not said anywhere that I can find aside from that one post in the Recruitment thread saying it sounded reasonable.
So are we choosing to go with being able to respec your character however you wish after first level, but before playing as second level? I was under the impression that we were to just make minor adjustments.
There should be no issues with that as long as you meet the necessary requirements to upgrade the weapon or hire someone that does.
How do the powers that be rule the interaction of the Guide and Infiltrator archetypes for the Ranger? They should be compatible, because neither of them replace the same powers.
There should be no issue with combing those two Archetypes. As you said, they do not replace and/or modify any of the same abilities.
The question is, how is it ruled that they interact? Infiltrator grants the Ranger a power from one of his favored enemies, but the Guide replaces favored enemies. Similarly, the Guide has a power that enhances Favored Terrain, but the Infiltrator replaces Favored Terrain. I think it has to be house-ruled one way or another, so I want to know what the house rule is.
Ah, I did not read through the abilities. I only took a look at what was replaced through Archives of Nethys. However, with what you have brought up, I would say that while it may be legal, it is rather useless considering the fact that you are gaining abilities that are completely reliant on abilities you have lost. This in turn makes said new abilities worthless.
Hmm, if that's the ruling the GMs go with then my next question for them is:
Is there a Favored Enemy that should be generally useful in these encounters? Or am I better off going with the Guide's 1/day ability against one opponent?
I am not a DM at this point in time, but I would likely say the Guide's ability may be more useful considering the GM's are not really restricted in what they can throw at you beyond it being of an appropriate challenge rating.
That was my original thought as well. However, Favored Enemy(Magical Beast) seems like a broad enough category as long as they come up every now and then. That way I could use the Infiltrator archetype to get things like +2 Natural Armor for 10 minutes/level. While the latter is less useful against a single opponent than the Guide's Focused Enemy ability, it is more useful over the course of an encounter against multiple foes. That combined with the occasional usefulness of being good against Magical Beasts when they come up makes me think it's the better option than Guide.
It's a situational thing. While it could help over an extended period of time, depending on the GM, time might not really be much of a factor. The only game I went through so far was a single fight, so 10/min per level means little when we spent less than a minute in combat.
Attention GMs, I would like to get your opinion on having this thread run with the Pathfinder Society guidelines, minus the restrictions on what is available (Only restriction on choices is that it comes from a Paizo product.) and without the prestige and fame ruleset.
Well, if the encounters are only ever going to be boss-fight slug-fests, then you are probably right. My point about the Infiltrator was that it becomes more useful the more primary antagonists / minions there are. The Guide's ability is better if every fight is BBEG + weak distractions. In the long haul I think Favored Enemy + Infiltrator is better if the micro-adventures are more varied and sometimes include multiple tough fights. If I can get a wand of Instant Enemy at some point down the road then I basically gain all the perks of Guide anyway.
So I guess that's my real question for the GMs: are the micro-adventures ever going to be more than one fight? Will they ever span multiple tough encounters?
I would have to look into the pathfinder guidelines, is there a reason we need to restrict ourselves to them, other than that things are strictly codified?
I would have to look into the pathfinder guidelines, is there a reason we need to restrict ourselves to them, other than that things are strictly codified?
Just my opinion but I am not a fan of any of it really. I don't really like the setting, which is no big deal since we are keeping this stuff to generic encounters. I don't like all the restrictions on races, item creation feats, etc. Like you said we wouldn't use any them hopefully.
What exactly would we be gaining from it, I guess it my question.
You have my apologies, I explained that rather poorly. I meant that we would refer back to the Pathfinder Society ruleset for things that have not already been established. Rules could of course be changed, but it would give us something to go off until decisions are made.
So how games are run currently would not be changed, the item economy would stay the same with players finding magic items through various games sessions and/or purchasing them from fellow players.
Something that would be taken from Pathfinder Society play would be the fact players can change just about any aspect of their character up until the point that they play in their second game (This is where they would be playing as a second level character for the first time). This does exclude changing any magic items they have acquired up to that point. So if you managed to gain a Ring of Swimming in your first game, you could not switch that out for something else. This helps maintain the item economy that has been set up.
So overall, it would just be a rule source to pull from in case if something comes up and we need something to go off until a final decision can be made.
The other useful thing to pull from it would be the way PFS manages loot. During an adventure the heroes can pick up any of the loot they find. After the adventure, instead of divvying up the items among them, all the items (that are not normally available to the players) are added to the heroes' adventure-logs. The heroes can then buy any items from their adventure logs at any point in their career. They cannot, of course, buy an item more times than it is listed in the log. Since the PCs are not getting the items for free, they get some gold at the end of each encounter for purchasing items from their log.
There's a thread discussing it here, but it is nicely summed up in this post:
Money earned summary:
At the end of the scenario you turn over everything found to the pathfinder society.
The Pathfinder society pays you x amount of money where x is the value of all the money you found + the sell value of everything else, no more than max gold as listed on the chronicle sheet.
In theory max gold should line up with the value of everything in the scenario. In practice there are probably inconsistencies and most GMs just award max gold in most circumstances, even if the group didn't extract every gold filling from the monster.
Any consumables you consume do not alter your rewards. (I will agree that I'm a little fuzzy on the Watsonian logic here)
Anything you otherwise SPEND is subtracted from your gold value at the end. So if you take money found in the scenario and use it to cast raise dead it would show up in the bought section and subtract from the max gold amount.
Ok I see what you are both saying. I suppose it may help in some fuzzy situations, and may help with some loot distribution, which right now is sort of a pain in the butt at the end of the missions, since everything isn't always able to be divided equally. I suppose more people could weight in on it, as well as some of the other DMs. I have never played with the PFS stuff.
I've was a pretty active player about a year ago and just started to get back into the scene. The system is definitely useful when organizing a lot of people in a series of games like this, however I enjoy the expanded range of materials to pull from the focus on a economy run by the player's as opposed to just going to an NPC store and buying everything.
So I would definitely like to hear from more on what they think of using such a system. Really the only thing I see it effecting at this point in time is the fact that player's will be able to make adjustments before playing a game as a level 2 character, retraining rules will be implemented after level two, and loot distribution.
The loot distribution does mean that the total value of the loot will need to be added up and divided between the characters though and character's may wish to keep a link to the loot post of any games they play in so that way they know what they can purchase from such sources.
Yes i think helping with loot would be nice, and the redo before 2nd level we sort of already implemented but maybe needs to be reposted somewhere.
Yeah, it would be helpful to have things added to the Campaign Tab for it.
I've been looking at switching Adanel over to a Wizard myself and expanding his magic business.
While we're on this topic--PFS allows players to make one Profession check after each session. However, PFS doesn't allow players to Craft.
Right now we give players indefinite time to craft. I'm pretty much okay with that. They can't really game the system *too* much because they have to get money from somewhere--mainly, other players and quests.
Profession checks with indefinite time get more tricky, though. I think a player could either Take 10 or make a roll (here in this thread), every time a new time-period begins. That time-period could be:
*a week passes in real life
*a month passes in real life (might allow a Take 20 in this case--that's a long time)
*any DM starts (and/or finishes?) an adventure that does not include the PC making the check
The last one is my favorite option, as it scales profession checks more or less the same way as Craft checks--the money has to come in at the rate that players are going on adventures.
Thoughts?
what are the profession checks for? just earning income nonadventuring? I would think we should keep it to either stuff earned from encounters, or profits from crafting, since that is run by player economy and based on limited resources. Just getting money from the 'system' is something that seems weird to me.
Hmm...crafting skills have been handled the same way as crafting feats at this point and I kind of like it that way. Basically, if you have some kind of feat or skill that could make you money, you have to use it to garner money from other players. Unfortunatey it does mean that some things are harder to use from others, but it does give a player with a skill the same opportunities that a player with a feat has.
I enjoy having the interaction between PCs when we want weapon or armor or whatever they want. I would like to see other professions/crafts get utilized. Like craft jewelry, profession herbalist, etc.
We want some "realism" with our peeps, if we are allowed 1 roll, with profession only, say every monday, then that would give us a little but if extra income for when we are between missions. But if we are in a scenario on monday, than we cannot roll since we are adventuring and we have to wait until the next Monday. I don't know I am just spitballing, but I would like to see professions be used or have than impact our craft in some way. Like 5 rank in profession 'X', gives a +2 on appropriate craft skill.
Well I can definitely agree the other ones would be fun to be used, but yeah with the indeterminate times that is tricky. I can't think of a good solution really.
Well, the time issue is simple. Like I said, anytime a new adventure starts, anyone not currently crafting or going on the adventure, can make a Profession check. That way income is coming in at a steady rate (although adventurers will always make more than people not adventuring).
My concern is actually balance.
Riggar and Bob go on an adventure. They each get 1000gp. Riggar crafts a magic item for himself at cost of materials, say, 500gp. Bob can't craft Magic items, so for him to get a similar item, he has to pay Riggar. Bob pays Riggar 1000 gp for an item of similar value (a pretty good deal, since mat. costs are 1/3 of buying price, so the item should cost 1500gp). Riggar spends 500gp on mats for Bob's item and then gets 500gp of profit. Riggar now has a magic item of the same value as Bob's, but he still has 1000gp left over that he can use to make *2 more* magic items of the same value at-cost. To recap, Riggar and Bob went on an adventure. By the time they start their next adventure, Riggar has gained 4500 gp worth of magic items, and Bob has gained 1500 gp worth of magic items.
Over time, this type of disparity is only going to get worse.
Unless...
While working on this post I had an idea. Why not limit the number of checks players can make on any given Craft or Profession check per choose-a-time-period.
The DMs would need to agree on how they wanted it to work specifically, so I'm just listing some possible combinations in two lists.
X is an arbitrary number (probably 2 or 3, but I don't know).
You can make
- X * your level
- X * your crafting skill ranks
- your level + your crafting skill ranks
- your level
- your crafting skill ranks
- X (this might be the most realistic--just assume there are X weeks between each adventure. By the book, each check represents one week)
Craft or Profession checks per
- Real-life Week
- Real-life Month
- Down-time between adventures for that PC (in other words, per PC level)
- Adventure started by any GM (probably my preference)
You can divide your checks up however you want between different crafting and profession skills, but you can't make more checks (for yourself or anyone else) in total than your allowance for a given time period.
You can accumulate checks over time, so you're not punished for not checking in as often as other players, BUT your available checks will reset every time you go on an adventure (i.e. every time you level), so you can't save up checks for later when they're more valuable to you.
Magic Crafters are still going to make more money, but at least if they do so they are cutting in to time they could spend making items for themselves, and non-Magic Crafters will have a way to make some money also.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Pretty sure all this hullabaloo is why PFS doesn't allow Crafting--just one Profession check per adventure. Definitely less of a headache. :p
Just a few things. For magic items, material cost is actually 1/2 the market price not 1/3 the price like it is for non magical items. Also, people have to spend a feat (or skill points) to make magic/items ( or chose a class ability that gives them that ), so in a sense they are giving up some bit of power for that ability. Does it balance out, maybe not. People are also not always charging others full market price for items, although it seems to vary a little.
I guess we would need some way to gauge time passed between encounters for these purposes.
I agree we should try to figure out a way to have a non-adventure, recurring income for all involved. As a forgemaster, I give up channel energy and something else to gain different domain spells, added spells and craft magic arms/armor at 3rd level. I personally don't charge full price for the simple fact that (a) the in character gameplay might very well die and (b) I can make more profit in the long run even if I take a small hit in the short term.
By charging between 10-20% (sometimes more) less, I keep in business and give the adventurers a break in fund spending...supply and demand. I also judge it based on what I would do IC, look at the cold iron sword for Kale. I would have never worked with it, so I gave an even bigger discount to have the opportunity to work with such a special metal. Does it mean I will do that every time...no. But there are exceptions to every rule.
Long story short, I feel we can find a solution, we are all smart people here.
Just a few things. For magic items, material cost is actually 1/2 the market price not 1/3 the price like it is for non magical items. Also, people have to spend a feat (or skill points) to make magic/items ( or chose a class ability that gives them that ), so in a sense they are giving up some bit of power for that ability. Does it balance out, maybe not. People are also not always charging others full market price for items, although it seems to vary a little.
I guess we would need some way to gauge time passed between encounters for these purposes.
It's true, feats are a little expensive, but in the long run they're paid off by having extra income to spend on materials for more magic items for yourself.
Also, I accounted for reduced prices in my example. Although I didn't know about the change in the mats. cost fraction for magic items, so the specific costs were off, the general idea remains true.
Each Craft() and Profession() check is supposed to take 1 week (with the option to increase the DC to reduce time). I think it would be reasonable for the DMs to decide that X weeks have passed every time one of them starts a new adventure.
Totally agree and Yeah I definitely think something like that could be decided across the board. A month or something seems like a good average.
Also on a side note, I will be away camping saturday june 28th through thur jul 3rd, and i dont know if I will have cell phone reception, so I will be potentially unreachable during that time. Of course this includes Bartleby as well, if he turn on the list comes up or someone wants to buy stuff, etc.
Getting the specs worked out for my next mod...if ready while you are gone then I will pick next available. If okay with all involved?
I'm 10th on the list anyhow, so there is at least a whole group ahead, and I would be in the second group probably, also Bartleby is now 5th having used my banked level, so might need to be grouped with others 3rd+
Ok, so if I understand correctly, once Riggar starts his next module, if I am not one of the players who participates, then I will then get to make a total of 4 Craft or Profession checks (for an entire month), right? Then I will probably be in the module after that, but if I were to sit it out for any reason, I would get another 4 checks, etc.
If I were for some reason to participate in Riggar's next module (because of level balance reasons or player availability or whatever), then I would not get to make any Craft() or Profession() checks because it is assumed that I basically went on his quest as soon as I got back from mine?
Hey is it ok to multiclass. I was thinking about trying out rogue/barbarian or "rogue with a temper" lol. Let me know I'm still in my first encounter.
Its Pathfinder, you can multiclass if you like.
Since Riggar is starting his next module, here are my Profession (Sailor) checks.
30.5 gp
What's the limit on skill ranks? Is it 1/level?
Yes, it's up to 1/level. For example, a 3rd-level PC can have up to 3 ranks in Stealth, 3 ranks in Knowledge(arcana), etc. Of course, depending on the relevant modifiers, the total bonus will probably be higher.
115/2=57.5
He will than take 50 of the gold piece earning and donate them to the local church of Torag. If no church exists, he goes to a shrine and donates it.
Are there any missions currently ongoing? Does it pay to restart the thread by one of the current GMs so its easier to maintain?
nothing ongoing, i finished my game a few weeks ago. Some may be updating, but otherwise there has been no activity. I hope this isn't dead, i find it fun :)
I just hope there are others thinking of putting a game together, otherwise I will never be able to play lol
I can start working on another game if people are still interested?
Is the OP still present and active?
For what it's worth, we just finished an adventure... Tuesday of last week, I think? But I've heard nothing since then, even though I signed back up.
I'm still interested, and would also be fine with running something once things slow down a bit (which might be a month or so).
I will also have a new mission put together soon, just wanted to see who was alive out there yet.
I am alive and well, working odd hours so posting hasn't been consistent, but I do check the thread every day at the least.
I am a little confused, I was wondering what the "magic item" chart is and how would I apply that to Riggar, since I completed the "2nd game as GM"?
I'm still around as well, just waiting patiently for the next round of adventure!
I am still here, and slowly working on an adventure.
I am not sure what chart is used for magic items either. I assume that since the original OP is not even participating any more, the few of us that DM can more or less make up rules that we feel like.