Last Minute Summoner Speculation


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


Place your bets! All we really know right now is it gets 2 slots per rank up to rank 9 and the bounded casting is gone. I also heard the stat spread for eidolons is outside their descriptions now and more centralized, which could mean more space for an eidolon or two.

I'm hoping for a handful of evolution feats or maybe a table of familiar ability type bonuses we could slap on them: basically a little bit of build-a-monster that doesn't have to take up class feats.

I'ma still try my damndest to make a battle preacher that runs into combat with his angel witness, but the revealed lvl 10 feat for your eidolon striking and you getting a bonus to your spell attack/ spell DC makes me think the "fight together" fantasy for summoner is still firmly more gishy than martial. I'll still multi class champion and make it work as well as it can (which was good enough last time I tried).

I also think the phantoms and the angel are gonna get brushed up, definitely the dragon too, since that's just a whole bushell of types now.

What are y'all's thoughts?

Cognates

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Since Magus got two new subclass, I'm going to bet we get two new eidlodons. (Aberration please paizo i will give you lots of coins)


I think it’s likely we’ll see two new eidolons.

Josh said they streamlined eidolons, which I think he was hinting at the sub-eidolon stat arrays.

If you keep the Summoner generally the same and do that streamlining, you open enough text for about 2 more new eidolons (based on the average text length of the eidolon entries).

So I think that is highly probable. I’m also guessing we’ll get some more sub-eidolon stat arrays too beyond mostly being a STR-based and a DEX-based eidolon.

Vigilant Seal

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I just wish there was a way to double up on martial. Only reason is that it makes it more fun to ride around on and fight with than an animal companion but I think they want the caster + fighting minion dichotomy than fighter + fighting minion.

But I keep trying to make a monster hunter stories rider that fights physically with their eidolon anyway. Even though it sucks in real play.


Another Eidolon or two seems pretty likely. I'm really hoping for a wider selection of 1st level evolution feats, really hone in on the customization aspect. I don't get why Amphibious Form is 2nd level, for example, that feels like something you'd want to bake into your design from the get.


We’ll get three new eidolons (they’re just new tradition dragons).

Liberty's Edge

I just hope my Summoner stays fun to play and that they do not get a "streamlining" a la Oracle.


Don't need much core fixing like magus did, but I really hope a lot of feats get reworked. Also new eido!on specific feats. Something to help non STR maxed Eidolons damage.
Trying hard to keep my expectations low, but that spell progression reworked is ace.


What/where/how/why are you talking about? Is the Summoner being Remastered?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:
What/where/how/why are you talking about? Is the Summoner being Remastered?

Sure is, in Impossible Magic, which is about to drop to subscribers tomorrow!

I'm hoping for Dragon eidolon being expanded to every tradition, and the occult/divine options as a whole get touched up. (I just want psychopomp to be a little better.. psychopomps are neat)


So is the Summoner being re-presented in whole in Impossible Magic?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:
So is the Summoner being re-presented in whole in Impossible Magic?

That appears to be the case, alongside Magus. Likely because Secrets of Magic is so entrenched in OGL concepts that it was easier to just fit them in an entirely new book about magic for the remaster.


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I wonder if we'll get clearer wording on conditions and shared issues between summoner and eidolon. Like, what happens when a death effect kills the eidolon, or a poison? A couple edge cases that I was always curious about, and kind of big deals in some cases.


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I'm just happy wave casting is dead.


graystone wrote:
I'm just happy wave casting is dead.

Somewhere, a copy of Divine Mysteries let out an evil laugh.


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I've already posted this elsewhere, but the fact that the summoner is now a full 2-slot caster heavily skews the balance towards 1-action pets, who already were among the best before the remaster.

I'm wondering whether that's what they've been harmonizing as well.


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WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'ma still try my damndest to make a battle preacher that runs into combat with his angel witness, but the revealed lvl 10 feat for your eidolon striking and you getting a bonus to your spell attack/ spell DC makes me think the "fight together" fantasy for summoner is still firmly more gishy than martial.

If we're getting more support for the Angel Summoner, we'd better be getting a BMX Bandit archetype!


They're improving the summoner? That is cool.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So happy I won't have to explain wave casting anymore!


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BotBrain wrote:
Since Magus got two new subclass, I'm going to bet we get two new eidlodons. (Aberration please paizo i will give you lots of coins)

Not just aberration, but ooze as well! (Ooze is arcane, since dragon is now pick-a-list as you'd expect.)

Dark Archive

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QuidEst wrote:
BotBrain wrote:
Since Magus got two new subclass, I'm going to bet we get two new eidlodons. (Aberration please paizo i will give you lots of coins)
Not just aberration, but ooze as well! (Ooze is arcane, since dragon is now pick-a-list as you'd expect.)

I got almost all my summoner wishes granted. Just didn't get synthesist....but Meld into Eidolon gives permanent boost eidolon while active so that could be something....


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John R. wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
BotBrain wrote:
Since Magus got two new subclass, I'm going to bet we get two new eidlodons. (Aberration please paizo i will give you lots of coins)
Not just aberration, but ooze as well! (Ooze is arcane, since dragon is now pick-a-list as you'd expect.)
I got almost all my summoner wishes granted. Just didn't get synthesist....but Meld into Eidolon gives permanent boost eidolon while active so that could be something....

That was my houserule suggestion before, so I'm pretty happy with it as a low-level feat option. It accounts for the action you lose without too much fuss. I'd still really enjoy a full Synthesist, naturally.

Cognates

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QuidEst wrote:
BotBrain wrote:
Since Magus got two new subclass, I'm going to bet we get two new eidlodons. (Aberration please paizo i will give you lots of coins)
Not just aberration, but ooze as well! (Ooze is arcane, since dragon is now pick-a-list as you'd expect.)

There go my coins!


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BotBrain wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
BotBrain wrote:
Since Magus got two new subclass, I'm going to bet we get two new eidlodons. (Aberration please paizo i will give you lots of coins)
Not just aberration, but ooze as well! (Ooze is arcane, since dragon is now pick-a-list as you'd expect.)
There go my coins!

Finally, goo and Cthulhu eidolons


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Teridax wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'ma still try my damndest to make a battle preacher that runs into combat with his angel witness, but the revealed lvl 10 feat for your eidolon striking and you getting a bonus to your spell attack/ spell DC makes me think the "fight together" fantasy for summoner is still firmly more gishy than martial.
If we're getting more support for the Angel Summoner, we'd better be getting a BMX Bandit archetype!

I may or may not be hoping each day for more daredevil vehicle support for precisely this reason.


Perpdepog wrote:
Teridax wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'ma still try my damndest to make a battle preacher that runs into combat with his angel witness, but the revealed lvl 10 feat for your eidolon striking and you getting a bonus to your spell attack/ spell DC makes me think the "fight together" fantasy for summoner is still firmly more gishy than martial.
If we're getting more support for the Angel Summoner, we'd better be getting a BMX Bandit archetype!
I may or may not be hoping each day for more daredevil vehicle support for precisely this reason.

Because, remember, compared to the Angel Summoner, the BMX Bandit is…really…no, I mean, really….really…good. Like so good, he can….ride a bike. And do…tricks. I’d like to see the Angel Summoner, or heck, even the angels do that. Leap tall buildings? You bet. The BMX Bandit has you covered!


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Teridax wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'ma still try my damndest to make a battle preacher that runs into combat with his angel witness, but the revealed lvl 10 feat for your eidolon striking and you getting a bonus to your spell attack/ spell DC makes me think the "fight together" fantasy for summoner is still firmly more gishy than martial.
If we're getting more support for the Angel Summoner, we'd better be getting a BMX Bandit archetype!

I did NOT expect to see that old classic referenced in this day and age. "One summons angels, The other rides a BMX!" Classic dynamic right there.


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Merellin wrote:
Teridax wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
I'ma still try my damndest to make a battle preacher that runs into combat with his angel witness, but the revealed lvl 10 feat for your eidolon striking and you getting a bonus to your spell attack/ spell DC makes me think the "fight together" fantasy for summoner is still firmly more gishy than martial.
If we're getting more support for the Angel Summoner, we'd better be getting a BMX Bandit archetype!
I did NOT expect to see that old classic referenced in this day and age. "One summons angels, The other rides a BMX!" Classic dynamic right there.

It's been a surprisingly resilient meme on these boards more or less since the summoner was shown to have an angel eidolon. Makes me smile any time someone brings it up again; it's in the same bucket as the old Futurama neutrality memes--back when we had alignment--and the "Rise of the Return of the Revenge of the Son of the Bride of the Runelords" jokes for me.

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