What Ancestries and / or Heritages are you *still* still craving?

[OttoMasheen]

Based on keftiu's original "What Ancestries are you still craving?" (https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43hr7?What-Ancestries-are-you-still-craving).

I'm not sure of the etiquette on necro-ing a thread whose last post was in May coupled with the thread being nearly 5 years old, so I thought a new thread would be fine.

Can be specific, as in an existing one that is legacy or in another subfranchise that you want (or even non-Paizo, if you're feeling cheeky or just plain inspired), or general, as in a "creature" type, mythology- or folklore-inspired, real world animal or culture that you want to play as, a niche pulp thing that has fallen into public domain or you think could be fairly easily slipped into the world of Golarion if you scrub the serial numbers off.

Feel free to add in your own suggestions or homebrew you think just need that professional touch to become more viable or popular.

No shaming or talking down to people by saying "just homebrew it!"
Please give anyone who posts in a ttrpg forum the benefit of the doubt that they know they could just homebrew it.
Constructive and respectful ideas, like HOW they could homebrew something, though, are welcome.

For instance, of all things, I'd like a sentient statue, a la the Greek Galatea, the Japanese branch of yokai and/or kami known as tsukumogami, and the classic trap/monster that is a violent statue.
Inspired by the awakened animal ancestry, where I started thinking on how to apply it - or "just hombrew it" - to objects as awakened/animate objects. Probably a bit too ambitious, statues where the heritages are cultures and material was a bit more...realistic. Probably could've just used an Automaton or the legacy Android, but that wasn't what I wanted.

Balance, while important, isn't always the idea; roleplay or even simply character. Which is good, because my attempt sure wasn't. And was not allowed, which was fair.

I think I'm also spoiled by how many roguelikes and roguelites are out there that are definitely not balanced, offering both broken overpowered and challenge or underpowered options intentionally. Which are nice to have, but not exactly something I expect a professional ttrpg company to necessarily offer until a system gets fairly old or an edition is reaching its end and they throw out ideas that weren't viable when the edition was being more supported.

[Lightning Sentinel]

I did always find the Shabti interesting and would love to see them back in 2e.

I'd also love to see a Cthulhu Mythos-inspired aberrations like the
Yaddithians (technically a playable race in 1e, but it was mostly monster-only).

I also wouldn't complain about another undead ancestry, though I don't know what it would be.

[moosher12]

While we're already confirmed to get Fetchlings, I hope it'll be expanded to a versatile heritage, as it's weird that only humans get to be born of the netherworld. That or that we get a netherworld bloodline for Nephilim.

I also hope that when we get Fleshwarps, its a similar deal, and works more like a Corpsefolk than like a standalone ancestry. Either this or Fleshwarps should gain a feat to easily adopt the feats of any one ancestry.

[BotBrain]

I have no idea what it would look like, act like or be called, but a dimension of time ancestry or vers. heritage

[BotBrain]

Oh and we do have tsukumogami! Poppets have a heritage for it.

[LoreMonger13]

BotBrain wrote:

I have no idea what it would look like, act like or be called, but a dimension of time ancestry or vers. heritage

Seconded!

I had a homebrew version of such a versatile heritage that I was working on that I called the "Khronal", but something more elegant/thematic would be fun, too.

[TheTownsend]

In the same vein, some kind of Astral Plane Heritage could be interesting. Maybe born of a native race like Shulsaga, or maybe you're just, like, the Platonic Ideal of your Ancestry like the arcane eidolons.

For one that might sound a little out there… Selkies. The first edition monster stablock was a little…odd, and not super mythologically acurate. But I like the idea of something a little like Anadi, where your natural form is just kind of a seal, but you can shed your skin to take human(oid?) form. The skin makes for some fun roleplay potential, kinda similar to the gem in Sarangays' heads. And while a lot of the myths center on the "captured woman" narrative, there were males that were known to attack ships and cause storms, and why don't we close that gender gap? A nice semi-aquatic option that's still functional inland.

[JiCi]

Aside from the missing ones, any giant-blooded ancestry...

I'm bouncing between a giantkin ancestry with heritages based on the current giant species, or a versatile heritage...

Oh, and Ogres, Trolls, Cyclops and whatnot could be added.

[Lightning Sentinel]

Thinking about it, they really did pop the lid off of having playable true outsiders, so that adds to the possibilities...

Axiomites, maybe?

[Kavlor]

Well, I'll express my opinion, which hasn't changed much since last time. I personally oppose adding entirely new races to Pathfinder without inspiration from real mythology or other fantasy works. Examples of races I would find objectionable are races like the Shisk and Gholoma from the Mwangi Expanse book.

My reason for dissatisfaction is as follows. Such races are completely invented by Paizo and exist without the context of tabletop lore. Moreover, the races themselves often receive very little lore and exist in isolation from the setting around them. Regarding these two races, please note that they weren't used in the AP, they have no established settlements, they are not present in the major cities of the region, and they don't engage in diplomacy with other peoples. They seem to exist separately from the rest of the setting and have no influence on it. I believe this is because there wasn't enough lore for these races when they were created, and therefore no one developed them further.

Furthermore, I have an important stylistic argument regarding races that are absent from both mythology and other fantasy genres. I remain a strong believer that Golarion as a setting should be more reflective of Earth's past and mythology, as is classic fantasy in general, while I consider completely alien and strange races more suited to Starfinder and the atmosphere of distant stars. As a result, I oppose various concepts like snail people and the like.

Instead, I believe we should look to the real mythologies of various world races to embody them: Girtablulu, Urmallulu, Selkie, Harpies, Cyclopes, and many other real mythological creatures, in my opinion, are more deserving of implementation.

[Lightning Sentinel]

I agree that they're underused and in need of expansion, but the solution is to torch them and eschew creativity and originality. As a creative person myself, I have to say that "They should conform to my vision or conventions/tropes" is generally not helpful and drowns out the helpful parts.

Also consider all the 1e ancestries and monsters that got huge glow ups in 2e. 1e Automatons were not even treated as humans, just sources of lesser artifacts and were buzzkills about you harvesting them.

[BotBrain]

I respect the opinion and I do think many of the pf-exclusive ancestries, especially those which came out early on in the systems lifetime are underdeveloped but I fear there's a bit of selection bias going on. For every shoony there's a surki, you know?

[Theaitetos]

Drow.

[Lightning Sentinel]

BotBrain wrote:

I respect the opinion and I do think many of the pf-exclusive ancestries, especially those which came out early on in the systems lifetime are underdeveloped but I fear there's a bit of selection bias going on. For every shoony there's a surki, you know?

Honestly, even public domain monsters need time to cook so they turn out memorable.

[Lex Winters]

Above discussions is pretty much why I'd rather see underused existing paizo originals fleshed out and genuinely integrated into the setting before we go looking at carving out a new niche somewhere for anything else

[Agonarchy]

* Serpentfolk
* Sthenos
* Maftet
* Vishkanya heritage with fangs, pupils, and intoxicating blood instead of damaging
* Elemental full ancestry
* Ethereal ancestry with heritages based on mist, dreams, mind over matter, and ghosts

[Lightning Raven]

I once again have come to as for a Bunny/Hare Ancestry.
We have several plant-based ones, but we do not have any bunnies whatsoever.
It's even better because it would be a PF2e thing, not something inherited from PF1e.

[The Raven Black]

Girtablilu

[Agonarchy]

Adding to my list: Adaros. They could be jawsome.

[Perpdepog]

I'd like to see Calignis and other Darklands ancestries get the 2e treatment, and seconding for some aberration-focused stuff like Yaddithians, Yithians, the Child of Yog-Sothoth template from 1e made into a heritage, or some other spooky option that probably starts with Y.

BotBrain wrote:

Oh and we do have tsukumogami! Poppets have a heritage for it.

I'm playing one right now in a Season of Ghosts campaign, as it happens!

[Karys]

Lightning Raven wrote:

I once again have come to as for a Bunny/Hare Ancestry.

We have several plant-based ones, but we do not have any bunnies whatsoever.
It's even better because it would be a PF2e thing, not something inherited from PF1e.

Seconding this, I desperately crave an option like bunnyfolk to represent me best.

[moosher12]

While Awakened Animals are already a thing, I can second bunnyfolk, and I'll raise a sharkfolk on behalf of one of my players.

[ornathopter]

GARGOYLES. I want gargoyles so very badly, I want to be able to play a cool, flying, elemental-stone person so much. At present I'm stuck trying to mush together oread/terra dragonblood versatile heritages with strix. And maybe lampad nymphs in the future. And don't say 'battlezoo did it' because their version was very disappointing.

Aside from my favorites... there are several monster type ancestries that have been teased as friendly enough to be adventurers. I'd love a stheno/medusa option, for instance. I'd also like harpies, and I'd like to see the return of the syrinx in the future.

[BotBrain]

Is battlezoo did it the pathfinder equivalent of saying to a 5e player that pathfinder did it?

On topic gargoyles would be fun, especially if they lean more into their roles of protectors against evil spirits. A guardian gargoyle who protects their party against physical and spiritual attacks sounds really fun.

[Karys]

BotBrain wrote:

Is battlezoo did it the pathfinder equivalent of saying to a 5e player that pathfinder did it?

At least you'd be suggesting an actual option for the game they're actively playing, so I think that's not a bad thing (probably haha)

[Lightning Sentinel]

BotBrain wrote:

Is battlezoo did it the pathfinder equivalent of saying to a 5e player that pathfinder did it?

On topic gargoyles would be fun, especially if they lean more into their roles of protectors against evil spirits. A guardian gargoyle who protects their party against physical and spiritual attacks sounds really fun.

Love that ancestry, though It is just the main characters from the Disney Channel cartoon with no sense of shame (affectionate) rather than anything rooted in Pathfidner's lore. I'd love to see what an official one would look like.

[keftiu]

Maftet, Sekmin, and Shabti are all I really have left to beg for.

RIP, my old thread! You've served well, and many of the wishes posted in you have since come to pass.

[PossibleCabbage]

Still looking for a moth-person of some kind.

[Pacifist Paladin]

I'm personally an ogre-truther, I know they have a... reputation in Golarian, but modern PF loves redeeming the previously irredeemable! I think it would do a lot for a having a more generic "big lad" ancestry compared to the jotunborn (which I love but is quite thematically specific). Throw on an elemental heritage and you can even get the elemental giant theming!

Bringing remaining things over from 1e would also be nice, its just the question of what they're willing to (like I doubt the mythos ancestries would come over as playable for instance).

[moosher12]

BotBrain wrote:

Is battlezoo did it the pathfinder equivalent of saying to a 5e player that pathfinder did it?

I think it's different. Battlezoo did it means a Pathfinder player can play it in their native system. Pathfinder did it means that you still can't play it, because you're playing D&D.

A better equivalent, amusingly, is saying Battlezoo did it, because Battlezoo also makes 5E content that a D&D player can use.

The Pathfinder equivalent to Pathfinder did it is Lancer did it.

Though it is possible you assumed Battlezoo was a seperate system and not a PF2E/D&D5E supplementary 3rd party publisher.

[ornathopter]

Yes, the Battlezoo is half ripping off the 90s cartoon (though not bits like 'gargoyles have a sense of humor, because they have personalities like all people', just bits like the gargoyles naming themselves after landmarks or going 'there's THIS cool potential backstory, there's THIS cool potential backstory, but ACTUALLY gargoyles hate both of those stories and the REAL backstory is [S1E1 Gargoyles 1994]), half insisting they're somehow not a cultural monolith with any biological compulsions to do anything but they sure do all have A Thing They Have To Protect - because of vows of honor, which are universally shared and valued exactly the same way, but NOT because they have a monoculture... it was very frustrating, and then there were some bizarre decisions like spending a whole heritage slot on 'you look basically like a nongargoyle and don't get any feats that involve being physically a gargoyle.' In the monster book for being a monster ancestry. And then having one capstone ancestry feat be a tiny upgrade to a tail attack, and another be a dull 'you stop aging' feat that no one would ever take since who keeps playing a campaign for centuries at LEVEL 17 - it felt like they didn't have enough ideas to fill out an actual ancestry in either lore or mechanics. So I hope Paizo does a proper version sometime. I'm already very glad they're doing an official Nymph in Feybound, since battlezoo's version was uncomfortably fixated on 'you're hot! YOU MIGHT: not realize how hot people think you are! OTHERS MIGHT: be mad someone hot is friendzoning them! You have to pick one of these 3 ways to be hot! You look like the local average idea of what a hot person is!' Ugh.

... So anyways I'd much rather have a Paizo version that's better written and more fleshed out and makes good use of page space. My preference would be to a lot of elemental earth themed powers (one of the ones I did like in the battlezoo version was a feat that let you create a stone duplicate of yourself to take a hit), and magical protection options - especially ones more creative than 'you get a free once a day casting of such-and-such spell' - would be nice.

Also, for goodness' sake, don't waste a slot or an ancestry trait just on 'you pretend to be a statue.' It never makes sense to me to pretend that, if a gargoyle adventurer is infiltrating an evil castle or a an enemy camp, they could freeze in place and a guard would go 'oh, I suppose this is a totally normal fully-clothed statue of a monster woman with a real battleaxe, even though I've never seen it on a patrol before including when I went past here an hour ago.' That trick works for enemy gargoyles because the PCs have no idea what to expect in a room they're entering (once, at best, before they decide to treat every gargoyle statue they pass in the future as hostile), but PCs almost never get to lure enemies into that kind of trap.

To redirect from my salt, I'd also like to see a few more centaur variants, for non-horse animals. Like a liontaur? Or a maftet would also be fine. And seconding girtabilu and mothfolks.

And I don't think this is likely, but when I read the monster core entry for barghests, I did want to see something similar for PCs. Shifting between a magic dog and humanoid form like a kitsune, maybe with a feat line about cursed claw or bite wounds, or teleporting or fear effects... I think it'd be neat.

[Trixleby]

Why aren't bugbears an ancestry yet?

Also, like another guy said, Drow.

Rabbit people would be great but I make due with beastkin flavor as rabbit and stay hybrid form, same for turtle people.

Aside from that, I kind of agree with the one poster on like radically turbo unique races for the simple fact that it's impossible to find miniatures or artwork of them. I mean, I guess Shisk are like worse version of Baraka from Mortal Kombat and his race. But like where do you find Goloma or Conrasu art or minis, much less of every sort or class. Do they even wear armor?

Like half the fun is having cool artwork or minis to put on the table, and when the race has 0 support and nobody has heard of it except pathfinder players and theres nothing to support them it feels bad.

Also it will never happen but my favorite race is gith and I wish we could get them here.

[LoreMonger13]

Trixleby wrote:

Why aren't bugbears an ancestry yet?

Also, like another guy said, Drow.

Rabbit people would be great but I make due with beastkin flavor as rabbit and stay hybrid form, same for turtle people.

Aside from that, I kind of agree with the one poster on like radically turbo unique races for the simple fact that it's impossible to find miniatures or artwork of them. I mean, I guess Shisk are like worse version of Baraka from Mortal Kombat and his race. But like where do you find Goloma or Conrasu art or minis, much less of every sort or class. Do they even wear armor?

Like half the fun is having cool artwork or minis to put on the table, and when the race has 0 support and nobody has heard of it except pathfinder players and theres nothing to support them it feels bad.

Also it will never happen but my favorite race is gith and I wish we could get them here.

Sites like Hero Forge that let you make and buy custom minis are pretty handy for that, and even have things like slapping on multiple limbs. If you want 1-1, you'd need to get REALLY good at their face customization, body customization, and probably some kitbashing, but I've seen people make pretty great Conrasu even before some of these more recent tools!

[Dragonchess Player]

I just want to mention, since it has been brought up twice, that drow will not be appearing in PF2 after the remaster.

Drow were created by TSR and are WotC intellectual property that falls under the OGL and is not covered by the ORC.

[TheTownsend]

The people saying "Drow" realize that A) the "Cavern Elf" heritage was always meant to cover that ground and B) the Drow were specifically removed from Pathfinder Lore during the Remaster, right? Like, whatever specific flavor you were hoping to see mechanically represented no longer exists in the official setting and cannot going forward for copyright reasons. For the same reason as things like Gith or Kalashtar.
(EDIT: I take too damn long to type, Dragonchess beat me to it)

Not to be too contrary but I kind of like the original ancestries, makes the setting feel unique and fleshed out rather than just All-Myths-Are-True-Earth-With-the-Serial-Nubers-Filed-Off. They could use a little stronger incorporation into the setting, sure, the odd Goloma or Kashrishi NPC wouldn't hurt, but that feels partly like an interdepartmental issue.

[OttoMasheen]

Hey, the topic is what people are craving.
If they want to say Drow or Bugbear, they're free to do so.

If you've got a suggested alternative or equivalent, by all means.
If you've got an explanation as to why that, specifically, probably won't happen, fine.

But please remain respectful?
Helping to curb expectations is important, but no need to talk down to people.

If someone wants to say, "More amphibious species! Toads, salamanders, newts, skinks, lunged fish, possible future octopodes, prehistoric cetaceans, sea snakes, mermonkeys, skunkapes, tadpoles and young axolotls and other stages of amphibians that look nothing like their adult forms," that's fine. We will judge them silently, but they're free to type out their wish.

[PossibleCabbage]

There is supposed to be a specific subgroup of Elves who live in the Darklands and have been there since Earthfall, they even have a name (which I forget) but we haven't had an opportunity to do a deep dive on them since the last time we were in the Darklands it was a Dwarf-themed adventure rather than an Elf-themed one.

Assuredly we will eventually get more information on the subterranean Elves who are a lot nicer than the previous subterranean Elves.

[Perpdepog]

Trixleby wrote:

Why aren't bugbears an ancestry yet?

My guess is because, of all the goblinoid peoples, they were the most villain-coded. Basically they like being alone, scaring people, and get benefits when people are scared, and that was most of what we learned about them in books like Monster Codex, which didn't make them especially fit for characters who are meant to operate in parties of adventurers. Goblins and hobgoblins, by contrast, are both very community-minded peoples, which I suspect is what helped them fit stories a lot easier and get more of the spotlight, which led to them being developed into ancestries earlier and being fleshed out more.

I'm really looking forward to their inclusion in Cheliax: Infernal Inheritance specifically because I want to know what more there is to bugbears culture-wise, and it would be cool to have an all goblinoid party where everyone can play a different type of goblinoid.

[moosher12]

Trixleby wrote:

Why aren't bugbears an ancestry yet?

Bugbears are already confirmed for an upcoming Cheliax book, Lost Omens Infernal Inheritance, alongside remasterings of Strix and Fetchlings.

Trixleby wrote:

Also, like another guy said, Drow.

Through Starfinder 2E's Galactic Ancestries, if you want direct drow, we have the Azrinaran Elf heritage (refered to as Void Elves, which were called drow in 1E). And they are 100% mechanically compatible with Pathfinder 2E. But as it stands, we also kind of have drow through the Ayindilar Elves (also known as Cavern Elves). Both heritages grant the same benefits, being darkvision, so all an Azrinaran Elf is is a more wicked Ayindilar Elf. Azrinaran Elves were descendents of Clan Azrinar, a drow clan in Pathfinder that was likely retconned to be Ayindilar Elves (though as far as I've read, we do not yet know for sure what exactly they are retconned to). But the Ayindilar are our closest approximation of drow in Pathfinder (and now proven to be mechanically equivalent to), as we lost drow moving from OGL to ORC, and had to make legally distinct versions. Ayindilar, for example, are legally distinct because they are drow if their society was not inhertently evil. While Azrinarans are legally distinct because they are drow in space. And the apparent most likely path was just a particularly malevolent clan of elves with an otherwise average distribution of morality eventually made an evil space society.

I always just point drow players toward being particularly wicked Ayindilar elves.

Point being, I'm happy to say, we already have drow, in two flavors mind you, and we'll have bugbears soon.

[Lightning Sentinel]

Another: I'd love to see Beastbrood get the same treatment as Hungerseed given how Rhakshasa are no longer fiends.

[NoxiousMiasma]

Lightning Sentinel wrote:

Another: I'd love to see Beastbrood get the same treatment as Hungerseed given how Rhakshasa are no longer fiends.

Hey, maybe we'll get them in that upcoming Lost Omens book about spirits - rakshasa are spirits now, after all.

As for what I want still: 1) Versatile Heritage for fleshwarps, 2) Sthenos, and 3) more weird aberrations.

[The Raven Black]

TrulyParanoid wrote:

Hey, the topic is what people are craving.

If they want to say Drow or Bugbear, they're free to do so.

If you've got a suggested alternative or equivalent, by all means.
If you've got an explanation as to why that, specifically, probably won't happen, fine.

But please remain respectful?
Helping to curb expectations is important, but no need to talk down to people.

If someone wants to say, "More amphibious species! Toads, salamanders, newts, skinks, lunged fish, possible future octopodes, prehistoric cetaceans, sea snakes, mermonkeys, skunkapes, tadpoles and young axolotls and other stages of amphibians that look nothing like their adult forms," that's fine. We will judge them silently, but they're free to type out their wish.

FWIW I did not read the post as talking down to people and more as a For your information post.

[Trixleby]

TrulyParanoid wrote:

Hey, the topic is what people are craving.

If they want to say Drow or Bugbear, they're free to do so.

If you've got a suggested alternative or equivalent, by all means.
If you've got an explanation as to why that, specifically, probably won't happen, fine.

But please remain respectful?
Helping to curb expectations is important, but no need to talk down to people.

If someone wants to say, "More amphibious species! Toads, salamanders, newts, skinks, lunged fish, possible future octopodes, prehistoric cetaceans, sea snakes, mermonkeys, skunkapes, tadpoles and young axolotls and other stages of amphibians that look nothing like their adult forms," that's fine. We will judge them silently, but they're free to type out their wish.

I picked up "Drow at home" by using Nephilim on an Elf, you still get darkvision, and you can pick up some innate magic so you can cast Darkness through elf feat (Elf Atavism) and Celestial Magic gives Faery Fire. For the cantrip you get dancing lights.

[Bokavordur]

Personally, the big concept I really want is the Eberron style "changeling" or just the idea of a minor shapeshifter.

I feel like we are very close to that in many options, but I would love an ancestry that basically allows for having a number of "personas" that you have that scales, and those count as like highly successful disguises, but attempting to take on an identity of someone not in those chosen personas are weaker or just not as reliable.

Something like you start off with two personas of common ancestries, and when you use Change Shape into one of those it only takes one action and any failure on a deception or performance check in these forms counts as a success instead. Then if you want to shift into a different form (like "I want to become that guard") it takes more actions, and you have a circumstance penalty on those checks.

[Dragonchess Player]

Bokavordur wrote:

Personally, the big concept I really want is the Eberron style "changeling" or just the idea of a minor shapeshifter.

SF2e astrazoan. 99.9% compatible with PF2e.

[Bokavordur]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Bokavordur wrote:

Personally, the big concept I really want is the Eberron style "changeling" or just the idea of a minor shapeshifter.

SF2e astrazoan. 99.9% compatible with PF2e.

Oh cool! Thanks! I have not kept up with Starfinder at all, so this is new to me. Also, jeez, definitely one of the creepier takes on the concept haha

[A Drifting Shoebox]

Personally I struggle to think of "new" ancestries I'd actually want that feel likely, as opposed to ancestries I'd like a to see get remaster, errata, or general refresh that brings them up to more of a standard with other stuff. Also to have SF2e's Standard Ancestry Feats expanded upon and into PF2e and probably also retooled a little, so the power level of so many feel less arbitrarily guttered, like with Basic Flight vs nearly identical feats PF2e ancestries like sprite have.
Man... The things I'd do for 1d6 agile/finesse claws to actually be the standard bar for natural weapon ancestry feats.

Rougarou from 1e feel a little redundant, but we already have multiple ways to be a cat-person, so another option to be a wolf-person can't hurt that much. I would be kinda curious to see paizo's own version of "playable dragon (kinda runty medium/large size)" thing, in a similar vein to Battlezoo's rather than Starfinder's Dragonkin, that matches the more current trends in ancestry design.

I do know I'd really like a heritage for Kitsune that let you have your fox and humanoid forms right out of the gate, instead of forcing you to wait until level 5 for that. (Tanuki can have all three at level 1 with Everyday form, what gives? Can Myriad Forms at least go down to level 1?)

Though with mention of Astrazoan, I also just find a lot of the shapeshifter options in PF2e strangely restricted and overly taxed in general? I mean, did before, it just feels more stark now? Anadi and Kitsune (to name two of probably a half dozen) could probably most do with some tweaks, and personally I think you could have Hybrid Form built into their basic change shape to no issue? I just think it'd be nice, let me put my finger on that slider and wiggle it around instead of it being a hard toggle, put in the 'oh it makes it harder to disguise' if you're in the gradient or something.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

A Drifting Shoebox wrote:

Though with mention of Astrazoan, I also just find a lot of the shapeshifter options in PF2e strangely restricted and overly taxed in general? I mean, did before, it just feels more stark now? Anadi and Kitsune (to name two of probably a half dozen) could probably most do with some tweaks, and personally I think you could have Hybrid Form built into their basic change shape to no issue? I just think it'd be nice, let me put my finger on that slider and wiggle it around instead of it being a hard toggle, put in the 'oh it makes it harder to disguise' if you're in the gradient or something.

I think the way that the Kitsune and Anadi are designed vs the way the Taunki and Astrazoan are designed really shows how much more comfortable the developers are with the system after years of working on it. The Kitsune and Anadi are so restrictive about the very basic, core shapeshifting fantasy for seemingly no reason at all. Meanwhile, Tanuki & Astrazoan are incredibly permissive and flavorful in their shapeshifting.

[Perpdepog]

Justnobodyfqwl wrote:

A Drifting Shoebox wrote:

Though with mention of Astrazoan, I also just find a lot of the shapeshifter options in PF2e strangely restricted and overly taxed in general? I mean, did before, it just feels more stark now? Anadi and Kitsune (to name two of probably a half dozen) could probably most do with some tweaks, and personally I think you could have Hybrid Form built into their basic change shape to no issue? I just think it'd be nice, let me put my finger on that slider and wiggle it around instead of it being a hard toggle, put in the 'oh it makes it harder to disguise' if you're in the gradient or something.

I think the way that the Kitsune and Anadi are designed vs the way the Taunki and Astrazoan are designed really shows how much more comfortable the developers are with the system after years of working on it. The Kitsune and Anadi are so restrictive about the very basic, core shapeshifting fantasy for seemingly no reason at all. Meanwhile, Tanuki & Astrazoan are incredibly permissive and flavorful in their shapeshifting.

You can definitely tell with the anadi. They had some revisions between being introduced and becoming an ancestry as well, like emphasizing they are fully spiders that change shape, as opposed to their native form being their hybridized form. Oddly they haven't got the Beast trait, either.

[Lightning Sentinel]

I would actually like a remastered Anadi that irons out all the bugs and lets them be more functional in their true forms, though I don't know what perks they'd add to their humanoid disguise other than as a disguise.