Class feats at level 10+ do start to be able to do horrible things to enemies without the incapacitation trait. That's the level PF2 witch gets instant death without incap, for instance. (Curse of Death, so they still need multiple failed saves to hit the instant death effect, but)
Cheekpouches still do nothing that having a hoodie pocket doesn't.
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BigNorseWolf wrote: Cheekpouches still do nothing that having a hoodie pocket doesn't. I'm amangining that skittemander hoddies have 3 sets of pockets...
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Starfinder Player Core pg. 351
The Phantasmal Minion spell lists Defense Will; Duration 1 minute, instead of Duration sustained.
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The Atomic Blast spell speaks of "targets in the area", when it should say "creatures in the area", like fireball
"Targets" implies you can exclude allies and that flat checks from concealed or hidden would apply. Which is probably not the intention.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Driftbourne wrote: BigNorseWolf wrote: Cheekpouches still do nothing that having a hoodie pocket doesn't. I'm amangining that skittemander hoddies have 3 sets of pockets...
Speaking of skittermanders, how does grappling and combat maneuvers work with inactive hands?
Arutema wrote: Driftbourne wrote: BigNorseWolf wrote: Cheekpouches still do nothing that having a hoodie pocket doesn't. I'm amangining that skittemander hoddies have 3 sets of pockets...
Speaking of skittermanders, how does grappling and combat maneuvers work with inactive hands? They work. Inactive hands are only prevented from wielding items.
Pathfinder Player Core pg. 346
Starfinder Player Core pg. 318 and 346
Cairn Form's lower duration than Mountain Resilience does not do enough to make it into a side grade, as you'll be unlikely to benefit from Mountain Resilience for longer than Cairn Form due to the duration reduction, making it an objective upgrade.
Recommendations are to either increase the penalties for Cairn Form by raising the rank, reducing the resistance, or imposing a duration reduction when hit, or to decrease the penalties of Mountain Resilience by removing the duration reduction when hit. Essentially, either Cairn Form needs to be nerfed or Mountain Resilience needs to be buffed for them to be considered side grades.
Spells are pretty well balanced as a whole for cross-compatibility reasons, and a clear attempt was made to try to make Cairn Form a side grade rather than an upgrade. This is a weird case because one of the spells is a spell from Pathfinder that also appears in Starfinder. Whichever team, Pathfinder or Starfinder, that tackles this first, if ever, I'll be curious to see. Though I suppose it's more the responsibility of Starfinder team. Either way, this will be posted in both the Pathfinder and Starfinder threads. This would only apply to Pathfinder if Mountain Resilience was the spell being changed, after all.
Starfinder Player Core pg. 316 and 359
The spells Sift the Sphere and Augury are practically the same, except that Sift the Sphere is just a better version of Augury, as it can be heightened for a greater effect.
Additionally, due to the upgraded writing style of Augury, Sift the Sphere can be similarly foreshortened to save a lot of page space.
As for Augury, Augury is rendered obsolete by Sift the Sphere
If both spells are meant to be side grades, Sift the Sphere should get a second pass to become more distinct in its application from Augury, and possibly lose the heightened power, perhaps by getting more specific but short term answers, or more vague but more long term answers, or more specific answers with a higher rate of getting bad information, to represent trolls on the internet).
Alternatively, Augury can be buffed, but that would require buffing Augury Pathfinder side, too. Or Augury can just be dropped from Starfinder.
moosher12 wrote: Pathfinder Player Core pg. 346
Starfinder Player Core pg. 318 and 346
Cairn Form's lower duration than Mountain Resilience does not do enough to make it into a side grade, as you'll be unlikely to benefit from Mountain Resilience for longer than Cairn Form due to the duration reduction, making it an objective upgrade.
Recommendations are to either increase the penalties for Cairn Form by raising the rank, reducing the resistance, or imposing a duration reduction when hit, or to decrease the penalties of Mountain Resilience by removing the duration reduction when hit. Essentially, either Cairn Form needs to be nerfed or Mountain Resilience needs to be buffed for them to be considered side grades.
Spells are pretty well balanced as a whole for cross-compatibility reasons, and a clear attempt was made to try to make Cairn Form a side grade rather than an upgrade. This is a weird case because one of the spells is a spell from Pathfinder that also appears in Starfinder. Whichever team, Pathfinder or Starfinder, that tackles this first, if ever, I'll be curious to see. Though I suppose it's more the responsibility of Starfinder team. Either way, this will be posted in both the Pathfinder and Starfinder threads. This would only apply to Pathfinder if Mountain Resilience was the spell being changed, after all.
The fist attack of Cairn Form is trash, let's not pretend anyone is using this. So you're looking at a 1a, 1 minute resist spell you cast in combat, or a 2a, 20 minute spell you cast ahead of combat, and can feasible use in 2-3 back to back combats because you don't expect to get that often anyway.
As always, the real comparison is Flicker.
moosher12 wrote: Starfinder Player Core pg. 316 and 359
The spells Sift the Sphere and Augury are practically the same, except that Sift the Sphere is just a better version of Augury, as it can be heightened for a greater effect.
Additionally, due to the upgraded writing style of Augury, Sift the Sphere can be similarly foreshortened to save a lot of page space.
As for Augury, Augury is rendered obsolete by Sift the Sphere
If both spells are meant to be side grades, Sift the Sphere should get a second pass to become more distinct in its application from Augury, and possibly lose the heightened power, perhaps by getting more specific but short term answers, or more vague but more long term answers, or more specific answers with a higher rate of getting bad information, to represent trolls on the internet).
Alternatively, Augury can be buffed, but that would require buffing Augury Pathfinder side, too. Or Augury can just be dropped from Starfinder.
Sift the Sphere requires a local infosphere - Augury will function on a planet/location without one.
4th rank Sift the Sphere is markedly inferior to 4th rank Read Omens, which is why the latter is still uncommon. Read Omens gives more (cryptic) detail or advice and doesn't have a failure chance.
Xenocrat wrote: ...So you're looking at a 1a... I didn't even notice it was 1 action. That's not a good thing. that's yet another advantage over Mountain Resilience
In my experience, if you've got time for a 20 minute-minus-hits spell duration prep, you've got time for a 1 minute spell duration prep.
Also, if you're having multiple encounters in short order, you're still unlikely to leave the realm of 1 minute, When most encounters are 3 rounds max anyway, Cairn Form can already cover you for three encounters. And considering some players like to take 10-30 minutes breaks at least within encounters to heal, refresh focus points and the like, Mountain Resilience can only fill a weird niche where the distance between encounters is between 1 and about 15 minutes.
As for Mountain Resilience, it's duration is not 20 minutes, it's duration is 20 hits, as every hit subtracts a minute.
If you're casting it on the frontliner, every hit will subtract. Even small hits. So if you're fighting a typical group of 4 lackeys, who might go for 1 or 2 hits per, you're looking at 4-8 minutes lost per round if you get focused. A Mountain Resilience can theoretically be used up before even 1 minute passes, whereas Cairn Form offers the same resistance value, but guarantees at least 1 minute, no matter how many hits you take. And the more hits you take, the less likely you'd even have enough time for a 10 minute rest for the Mountain Resilience to survive for a second encounter.
Just because the unarmed attack is not always useful does not mean it's not an additional strength. If a caster uses it on themself, for example, it's more likely the unarmed attack would be more powerful than their default melee if someone enters their melee range. Casters aren't exactly one to spec Strength, after all. Even then, since Starfinder has the "Ranged Meta," the spellcaster in the back row won't have as much protection from getting ranged attacks to drain the Cairn Form anyway.
In short, the spellcasters can make use of the melee, and the frontliners are likely to use up the Mountain Resilience before it can outpace Cairn Form's usage.
Xenocrat wrote: Sift the Sphere requires a local infosphere - Augury will function on a planet/location without one.
4th rank Sift the Sphere is markedly inferior to 4th rank Read Omens, which is why the latter is still uncommon. Read Omens gives more (cryptic) detail or advice and doesn't have a failure chance.
Now this is not a bad point, but the problem is it depends on planets not having an infosphere. As infosphere networks are typically planetary, If 90% of games take place where an infosphere is available all the time, this isn't actually a disadvantage. But I suppose this depends on the adventures Paizo publishes. In which case they'd have a responsibility to make areas where Infospheres are unavailable frequent. That or making it to where every location that is not settlement is devoid of infosphere. But even in our modern day with satellites, we're getting internet pretty far out there, so justifying that in such a high tech world would be difficult outside of locations deep underground. Which essentially means your only options for Augury would be so far underground no signal can reach, or a completely unsettled planet. I suppose there's deep space, but that raises the question of whether a saved infosphere counts. We did, for example, see the iconic Evolutionist looking at craft videos while in deep space during his Iconic Encounter. And if the downloadable infosphere dataset counts as an infosphere for this purpose, that means you'd never be without an infosphere as long as you have a computer.
It's also not entirely without benefit to pick Sift the Sphere over Augury as while a 4th rank sift the sphere is not quite as good as Read Omens, a spontaneous caster that picks the spell as a signature spell effectively gets a full other spell, plus an upgraded option for the price of one learned spell. Alike, a prepared spellcaster like a witch can learn 1 spell and get both effects, instead of having to learn 2 spells or paying for a second spell.
Either way, if we just look at the rank 2 versions of Augury and Sift the Sphere, in the end the two spells at the same rank are just the same spell, except one requires an infosphere. That's just not not enough to stand out. Letting Sift the sphere be stronger in one aspect while weaker in another aspect will do much to help it stand out as its own Prediction spell. Make sure that it fills its own unique niche, rather than overlaying another spell's niche. As I suggested, perhaps more detailed information, but a higher likelihood of failure.
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@Wizard Level 1
So the reason Whirling Swipe is not a stance is because by the rules of the Area trait, if a melee weapon becomes an Area weapon, you would not be allowed to use it to make a normal strike.
Additionally, it's because the Close Quarters soldier lets you treat melee weapons as area (burst 5 feet weapons) when used with your other soldier feats, for the specific purpose of using it with your soldier feats.
It's not actually intended that non-Close Quarters soldiers use a two handed melee weapon as a replacement for their firearms. In the case of Whirling Swipe, it's an additional option, but if you want full use of melee weapons with area soldier feats, you're intended to use the subclass, which actually does a very good job integrating your melee weapon into your options.
Xenocrat wrote: There's a couple of Witchwarper focus spells that have a sustained duration. Does the sustain action on them have the anchoring trait, so that you don't have to separately sustain the quantum field on subsequent turns? I assume so, because it's really the only usable way to design them, but they don't say so and the majority of people participating in discussions about this issue seem to go the other way. Specifically this line from Warp Spells could use the clarification:
"Warp spells have the anchoring trait, unlike other focus spells. This trait means you can only use warp spells while your quantum field is active, and you automatically Sustain your quantum field when you cast warp spells."
Either adding to that final sentence that sustaining a Warp spell gains the anchoring trait or that it does not.
Ex: "and you automatically Sustain your quantum field when you cast or sustain warp spells."
Or
"and you automatically Sustain your quantum field when you cast warp spells but not when you sustain them."
Whatever the intention is for this.
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moosher12 wrote: Starfinder Player Core pg. 94 and 227
The Disciple background grants access to the Religious Talisman feat. It does not feel appropriate for a common background to grant access to a feat that requires mastery in a skill and is level 7.
The Religious Talisman feat likely was included in the Disciple Background in error, as the playtest draft of it, Holy Talisman, was a level 1 feat that required training in Religion, and was included in the Disciple background, which means that they might have intended to swap it to a new skill feat, but simply forgot.
But if it was intentional, well I understand Religious Talisman is a more powerful version of Pathfinder's Pilgrim's Token, but Starfinder likes to skew more powerful anyway.
Recommended approaches:
- Make the Disciple background Uncommon or Rare for using nonstandard feats.
- Switch the Disciple background to granting Student of the Canon instead of Religious Talisman.
- Make the Religious Talisman feat a level 1 feat that requires trained in Religion, as if it was available to a level 1 character by a common background, that means it's already considered balanced for this tier of play.
Not only is Religious Talisman a level 7 feat but it requires mastery at Religion. It should not be given away at level 1 if it has these requirements.
On the face if it, it honestly doesn't appear to be that strong of a feat being that it only grants a +1 status bonus. It does stack with circumstance bonuses such as from incredible initiative or scouting and it is unusual to have a more or less permanent status bonus to something so it probably makes sense that it has these requirements.
For those reasons, I agree that the background needs another pass. It either needs to be rare, or it should grant an entirely different skill feat.
moosher12 wrote: Cairn Form and Sift the Sphere stuff Just to compound my points, just read Death Sentence and Execute. I am proud to say these are an example of how it should be done. Death Sentence and Execute were an example of being the same spell, and they did a very good job making Death Sentence a distinct spell that fulfills a different niche with some overlap. As the spells were essentially the same in the Playtest.
Starfinder Player Core pg. 359 and 360
The picture for the spell Singularity Seed shows the iconic Witchwarper using the spell. Problematically, Singularity Seed is Divine or Primal, and cannot be easily cast by a Witchwarper without the Multiverse Magic feat. Perhaps adding the Arcane tradition? As Arcane has some of the other gravity spells.
Starfinder Player Core pg. 314
Rival Academies pg. 31
I really appreciate the Starfriends making an attempt at making Akashic Download not just be a better Pocket Library going into the final book, but I feel it needs another pass as it got nerfed a bit too hard, as now it is sort of worse than Pocket Library. The rank 1 version functions like Pocket Library except that it requires a locus, and is not available to arcane casters. The third rank splits off in a good way, and I think the dev's are on to something with the approach, but it needs some more work. The problem is that a 1st rank Pocket Library is just better, a 3rd rank pocket library has a mild give and take, but a 6th or higher ranked pocket library is just better. But we can expand on this.
Current suggestion would be to grant it a Heightened 6th and 9th form, and increase the uses for 3rd. Say, no bonus, but double the uses. 3rd would give 4 uses, 6th would give 6 uses, and 9th would give 8 uses. To give it a decision factor against Pocket Library. Do you want the higher bonus but fewer checks, or do you want more checks, but they are all +1s.
Though considering Akashic Download would be the same as Pocket Library, I think a case can also be made for additionally making Akashic Download a rank 3 spell that starts with these benefits, so there is no rank 1 overlap.
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Starfinder Player Core pg. 312
The Primal Spell list lists Wrathful Storm at level 9, but the spell isn't in the book.
Not sure if this is proper errata territory, but the grenade launcher distances look too big compared to weapons (or weapon and spell ranges are too short compared to grenade launcher ranges). I mean, what's going on here?
oimandibloons wrote: Not sure if this is proper errata territory, but the grenade launcher distances look too big compared to weapons (or weapon and spell ranges are too short compared to grenade launcher ranges). I mean, what's going on here? I find it strange that the grenade launcher has a much, much smaller range than just throwing a grenade.
pauljathome wrote: oimandibloons wrote: Not sure if this is proper errata territory, but the grenade launcher distances look too big compared to weapons (or weapon and spell ranges are too short compared to grenade launcher ranges). I mean, what's going on here? I find it strange that the grenade launcher has a much, much smaller range than just throwing a grenade. What do you mean?
A thrown grenade is 70 feet.
A Grenade Launcher is 280 feet, 4 times the range (up to 490 for the ultimate version, 7 times the range). And these aren't range increments, it's a flat range, like if you were using a spell.
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moosher12 wrote: pauljathome wrote: oimandibloons wrote: Not sure if this is proper errata territory, but the grenade launcher distances look too big compared to weapons (or weapon and spell ranges are too short compared to grenade launcher ranges). I mean, what's going on here? I find it strange that the grenade launcher has a much, much smaller range than just throwing a grenade. What do you mean?
A thrown grenade is 70 feet.
A Grenade Launcher is 280 feet, 4 times the range (up to 490 for the ultimate version, 7 times the range). And these aren't range increments, it's a flat range, like if you were using a spell. Sorry, you're quite right. I was thinking of the undermounted grenade launcher weapon upgrade. Range 20 ft at L0, at L16 with a range of 50 feet it is still less than just throwing the grenade.
Sort of makes sense from a game mechanics point of view but makes absolutely no sense from an in world point of view. And, even from a game mechanics point of view, those upgrade slots are valuable so I'm not at all sure that this is a necessary nerf.
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Understandable gripe though. I'd have expected at least 70 feet. On a cursory search, an M203 undermounted grenade launcher has an effective range of 492 feet An M79 grenade launcher has 1149 feet. So giving it a range a third to a half of what a full grenade launcher offers would be my suggestion for an errata.
So if we made the Undermounted Grenade Launcher have these stats...
We'd be looking at ranges of
Commercial: 90-140 feet
Tactical: 115-175 feet
Advanced: 140-210 feet
Superior: 160-245 feet
Vlaka's ancestry feat 9 Menacing Snarl has a few issues
1. It shares the same name as Vesk's ancestry feat 5 with different mechanics.
2. It is free action no-trigger no frequency limit, which means you can increase Frightened on any already Frightened creature within 30 ft. Even with the temporary immunity, this is extremely strong to combo with Fear (heightened 3) or AoE Demoralize abilities.
3. "The target then becomes temporarily immune to YOUR Menacing Snarl for 24 hours", emphasis mine. This means all party Vlaka can increase Frightened by 4 stacks. If Vesk's same feat were treated as a separate entity and stacks, the party can make an enemy Frightened 9 using only free actions!
d12 for Solarian two hand.
For the purposes of the operative Kill Steal feat, what counts as a "hit"? Is it only successful strikes that hit, certain levels of failure on an area fire attack, and what about a spell attack combined with a succesful strike?
There's a few ways this could (not) interact with soldiers doing Primary Target depending on whether a fail or crit fail on the area fire counts as a "hit."
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The level 14 Solarian feat Stellar Shield Collapse seems barely usable. It's a reaction when your Raised shield is destroyed, but the most normal way for that to occur is during a shield block, which is also a reaction.
This doesn't feel intentional, Collapse should probably be a free action.
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Starfinder Player Core pg. 385-386
The Forge Drift Beacon ritual should have 2 secondary casters, not 3. The spell says that it requires a multiple of 3 casters to work, but if 3 secondary casters are used, that makes for 4, requiring you to have 5 secondary casters in addition to yourself, minimum, to cast the ritual without it failing. And the note that it requires "at least 3 casters" leaves 3 casters to be an impossible condition without using the Ritualist archetype.
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Starfinder Player Core pg. 431
The Impersonate exploration activity refers to a disguise kit instead of a holoskin. Minor mistake, though.
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Starfinder Player Core pg. 431
The Implant Augmentation exploration activity still lists Augmentation Specialist as an optional prerequisite, a skill feat that used to be in the playtest, but was removed in the Player Core.
Starfinder Player Core pg. 437
The glitching condition is not clear as to the duration of the effect. Both the failure and critical failure effects impose the penalty without a duration (such as the end of the turn?).
Explosive Deflection from the Operative lists a Triggger - but lacks the symbol for Reaction or Free Action.
I would wager it is supposed to be a Reaction, but I could see Free Action.
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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
I'm concerned about Sniper Operative action economy. The way they are built, they are currently slightly worse Sniper Gunslingers from PF2E. They are entirely action-starved currently, leaving very little room for any fun Operative kit flair during play. To alleviate this, I propose three things:
1: Give the Operative access to the Running Reload Feat (with the Traversal trait added) from PF2E. Running Reload is a must in most Gunslinger builds for the action compression since most guns worth using have a Reload 1. The Sniper Rifles in SF2E, unfortunately, suffer from the same problem. Giving access to this Feat, at probably the same level, would benefit the current Sniper Rifles greatly. And whilst on the subject, please consider making Sniper Rifles something like Magazine 3 weapons. I find it rather ridiculous, and somewhat unbelievable that considering Starfinder's improved technological prowess we're still shooting guns and reloading them after every shot. Especially considering the Sniper Rifles that existed in Starfinder First Edition. I believe this would open the Sniper Operative to be built more creatively (And actually be able to use some of the fantastic Operative Feats you have created), and with this change it may open the Sniper Rifle to any other class that would like to use it.
2: Consider creating a Feat that allows the Operative to both Boost and Aim with a single action in the early levels. Maybe a level 2 Feat. The only time I Aim now as a Sniper Operative is literally the first turn of combat since I keep my gun loaded. Action economy as is does not incentivize me to use one of the integral parts of the Operative's kit unfortunately. Boost 1d10 is just a superior option to adding 1d4 damage from the Aim action. It just feels very generic to play and not use the main part of your kit.
3: Not really a suggestion, but more like a thank you. Thank you so much for the Traversal trait! Considering Starfinder's diverse species, this Trait is a fantastic addition to the system that was absolutely needed! (Was going to reccomend basically the same thing as the Traversal trait until I read my book, haha.)
Thank you for reading! I'm sure not all may agree, but in my opinion these changes would make Sniper Operatives, and by extent Sniper Rifles a much more enjoyable option to use on the field of battle.
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