What is the point of Necrotic Focus?

[Krisocka]

This level 12 feat makes me wonder what the designers intention behind it was or if they simply forgot the remaster.
It allows you to refocus all 3 focus in 10 minutes instead of only 1.
The thing is with the remaster you can do that already in 30 minutes and with consume thrall you can even do it in 20 and even have the Consume Thrall ready to be used again at that point.

So the use case for this feat is when you have 10 minutes to meditate, but not 20 (or more).
This seems to be an incredible specific use case for a 12th level feat and I really dont understand how it came to be in its current form.

[Blave]

I mean, all caster classes have such a feat at or around that level. Even the Wizard, despite having no option to get more than 2 focus points without using an archetype (Ironically, I think the wizard is the only class to get this feat later, at level 14).

Its use is questionable, but then again, so is the use of many feats.

In my feedback thread, I suggested changing it a bit. It could allow you to consume two thralls for two actions when using the Consume Thrall ability. Would still allow you to fully recharge your Pool in 10 minutes outside of combat, but would also have some potential use in combat, and the increased action cost still makes it something you won't be tempted to use too frequently I think.

[kwodo]

yeah in general these kinds of feats seem pointless

[YuriP]

This feat is an heritage from legacy where you are unable to recover more than one focus point without the old Focus and Wellspring feats.

After remaster the designers removed this restriction but to keep allowing players to not have to way 30 minutes to recover all 3 focus points the changed the level 12 focus feats to speedup the recovery to 10 minutes.

Wizards always was a strange case because not only it got the feat at level 14 but also ot was unable to get the wellspring feats (becoming unable to recover all 3 focus points without sleep). The remaster fixed this strange situation but kept the focus feat at level 14.

That said. As I always point here in forum. If you have 10 minutes to refocus you likely have 30 too, if you don't have 30 minutes to refocus you likely don't have 10 minutes too. That's why these feats are subpar now.

[Lia Wynn]

I disagree that if you have 10 minutes to refocus then you have 30.

The 10-minute between-fight thing makes sense. In previous editions of, well basically any RPG, post-fight you did first aid, reloaded weapons, gathered loot, searched for secret doors, and what have you depending on the game.

The thing is that those games never defined how long that too.. It was handwaved as normal. PF2 did define how long that took - 10 minutes.

99 percent of the time, the party should have that time period to do the normal expected things.

To assume, however, that you will always have 30 minutes is just not accurate in a well-run game. You might sometimes, but not every time.

But, more importantly, even if you do in your game, you can't analyze something from the perspective that every game will have that much dead time between rooms because the odds say that they won't.

[QuidEst]

It doubles your readiness speed instead of tripling it. I don't think it's so bad that it should be removed. Without the feat, you can use two focus points every ten minutes. With the feat, you can use four every ten minutes. That's double the undead labor per day, twice as many troops supplied with undead armor, or an extra ten minute activity like Treat Wounds. Not everyone needs it, but it's good for the option to exist.

[YuriP]

Lia Wynn wrote:

I disagree that if you have 10 minutes to refocus then you have 30.

The 10-minute between-fight thing makes sense. In previous editions of, well basically any RPG, post-fight you did first aid, reloaded weapons, gathered loot, searched for secret doors, and what have you depending on the game.

The thing is that those games never defined how long that too.. It was handwaved as normal. PF2 did define how long that took - 10 minutes.

99 percent of the time, the party should have that time period to do the normal expected things.

To assume, however, that you will always have 30 minutes is just not accurate in a well-run game. You might sometimes, but not every time.

But, more importantly, even if you do in your game, you can't analyze something from the perspective that every game will have that much dead time between rooms because the odds say that they won't.

That's why I used "likely".

[NorrKnekten]

Lia Wynn wrote:

To assume, however, that you will always have 30 minutes is just not accurate in a well-run game. You might sometimes, but not every time.

Absolutely agree with this statement, Pacing and applying timepressure is something I find most GMs struggle with but time constraints are somewhat present in many APs and home games.

Even if you have days, you might need the 8 hours needed to subsist to avoid fatigue, the 12 hours of rest, Maybe you have other activities like Repair, Identify magic and Searching and tacking on 20 minutes each time adds up.

Yes not every table takes time into account like this and the value depends highly on what focus spells you actually have. My own personal value of the focus feats typically range from meh with witch to mandatory as a druid.

[Finoan]

YuriP wrote:

Wizards always was a strange case because not only it got the feat at level 14 but also ot was unable to get the wellspring feats (becoming unable to recover all 3 focus points without sleep).

Well, with the Legacy Bonded Focus feat and Legacy Refocus rules you could still get your Wizard to get back all 3 of their focus points. Any class with just the 2-point Refocus feat could. It was just a bit wonky to do it.

You are at 0 focus points, Refocus for 2 points.
Spend 1 point. Cast Force Bolt on a rock or cast Protective Wards even with no enemies around.
Now you have used at least one focus point since the last time you regained focus points, so you meet the requirements necessary for using Refocus again.
You are at 1 focus point, Refocus for 2 points.

Now you have 3 focus points after 20 minutes and a useless casting of a focus spell.

Ehh. Scratch that. I am remembering things wrong. The 2-point Refocus feats have wording to prevent that. You have to have spent 2 focus points to use them.

[kaid]

kwodo wrote:

yeah in general these kinds of feats seem pointless

Not useless it is nice if you are in a hurry but necros with their ability to eat thralls makes it less desirable than other classes versions.