Chuck Mount |
So, I've been playing Pathfinder 1e since the Beta was released. I was partial owner of a game store and dove right into it.
We're finally getting into Mythic rules playing Wrath of the Righteous. I know... We're a little late to the party, to say thr least.
We're 14th level and 6th tier and we haven't had any real challenges except when the DM massively beefs up the bad guys.
It kinda seems like Mythic rules weren't really playtested. Anybody else have these issues?
Taja the Barbarian |
Yeah, mythic is basically broken: My GM tells tales of running WotR with the standard mythic rules and a 'solid but not ridiculously min-maxed' group and only actually getting to roll for the NPCs two or three times in the entirety of the last two modules (which is about the point you are at I think).
WotR certainly does not help things by being so Demon focused: When you are constantly fighting Demons, it's really easy to decide to gear up against them (If your martial characters don't have cold iron holy weapons by the time they hit double digits, they must not be paying any attention at all).
When I played WotR, we used watered-down mythic rules (some baseline mythic boosts and stat buffs, but no actual mythic spells or feats) and it was just very ridiculous levels of rocket tag (if your foe actually gets a chance to act, you probably did something very wrong)...
Mysterious Stranger |
The real problem seems to be that published AP’s are notorious for being fairly easy. For the most part this seems to be by design. With an AP it is written so that it can be played by just about anyone. I do not use published AP’s so have no direct experience in this, but that is what many people of the forums say.
Mythic Rules do boost the power considerably and allows for even greater optimization than normal. The guidelines in the mythic rules state that the CR for a mythic character is increased by half their mythic tier. The example they give in the book is a 10th level/5th tier character is considered CR 12. This means that character should be about as powerful as a 12-level character.
Looking at a comparison between a 12th level sorcerer and a 10th level sorcerer with 5 mythic tiers finds the mythic character is way more powerful. The 12th level sorcerer will have access to 6th level spells, but that is about it. The mythic character gains +4 stat bonus due to mythic tier while the extra 2 levels may gain the normal sorcerer a +1. The mythic sorcerer gains 2 mythic feats and 5 path abilities. For the mythic feats the sorcerer takes mythic spell focus and mythic spell penetration. For the path abilities the sorcerer takes longevity, Mythic Spell Casting, Energy Conversion, Elemental Bond (fire) and Eldritch Breach.
Assuming both characters are identical except the normal sorcerer has 2 extra levels. The DC of the normal sorcerer’s 6th level spells will be 23 (without items), compared to the mythic sorcerer’s DC of 27 for his 5th level spells. When trying to penetrate spell resistance the normal sorcerer has a +16 bonus, but the mythic sorcerer has a +19 (+24 is using a fire spell) and rolls twice and takes the better result. The normal sorcerer has access to higher level spells so cast chain lighting dealing 12d6 damage to the primary target. The mythic sorcerer cast a mythic fire snake for 15d10 damage, and the target is grappled for 15 turns taking 1d10 damage each turn. The mythic sorcerer can also cast any wizard spell of 5th level or lower by spending a mythic point, has 10 of fire resistance and +3 on all mental stats without taking any penalties on the physical due to age and can no longer die of old age.
I have actually run a mythic campaign and had no trouble challenging my players, but it was not a published AP. I created the campaign myself and encouraged the players to optimize as much as the wanted. The opponents were equally if not more optimized than the players. I actually had to scale back a few opponents. The mythic vampire antipaladin was just too much even for a mythic paladin.
Chuck Mount |
We're running a group of 4. 2 paladins, 1 cleric and 1 conjurer/ fighter/ arcane archer. I'm the arcane archer and specifically not power gaming every level. I'm the weakest of the group, but I can spend a couple of mythic points and deal 90 damage automatically with mythic magic missile and my maximize metamagic rod. I'm rarely targeted, but if I am, I pull a Loki and make it so it was an illusionary image that was hit and I teleport 30' away. The paladins have a contest to see who can do the most damage. One is a crit-monster that always confirms and can reroll attack rolls or something broken like that. The other paladin has a couple of abilities that let him basically move anywhere on the battlefield he wants because he can get his movement up to over 100 BEFORE I cast Haste. Now, we jst got tier 6, and he took the ability that lets him take a full attack after moving. LOL WTF??
The DM has started maxing out HPs or, in a couple of cases, adding 300+ to the HPs and increasing AC so combat will last longer than one or two rounds.
We've played other APs and, while they can be easy in some cases, they aren't normally a walk in the park like this is. We fought a mythic dragon, and I don't think it ever got to attack. If it did, it wasn't memorable. Of course, a lot of this is decided on dice rolls, but still. It seems waaaay too easy. Like I said, it feels like it was never play-tested. It's like they just came up with a bunch of cool god-like abilities, put them on paper and said, "Okay. Print it".
Mysterious Stranger |
Just being mythic is a huge boost so there is some validity in the early levels being the most significant, but some of the later abilities are very strong. At 3rd level you gain Recuperation which allows you to fully heal after 8 hours of rest. You can also regain all limited use class abilities by spending a mythic point and resting for an hour. Mythic saving throw means you can often ignore many non-mythic abilities. Gaining tier 3 and 6 also unlocks more powerful mythic path abilities.
Being able to add metamagic feats to all spell cast for 10 rounds without using a higher level spell or increasing the casting time makes blasters incredibly tough. Being able to increase the damage dice and add an extra 5 dice means that low level spells still remain viable at high levels. An intensified mythic burning hand does 10d6 damage with a 1st level spell. An intensified augmented mythic fire ball can deal up to 25d10 damage and ignore fire resistance and immunity.
Azothath |
Normally in PF1 it takes a setup or CR=APL+4 to kill one of four PCs. Many PCs engage in push through until you win strategy (which can result in a PC death).
So PF1 goes from relatively easy with a few speed bumps to Mythic soap-opera very easy and extra life tokens. Broken? hmmm, depends on what you want out of the game.
Anguish |
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It depends on what you think mythic's purpose is.
If you think of it as "more rules, especially for high-level play, like 3.5e epic", oh yes, it's so very, very broken.
But if you think of it as "more rules, for telling the tales of legendary characters whose deeds will be told for centuries", they're very functional.
Challenging mythic PCs or making them feel threatened is difficult, yes. But if you're okay with the interesting bit being using interesting over-the-top abilities, without the constant threat of character death... it's fun.
Chuck Mount |
The issue we're having with the Mythic rules and Wrath of the Righteous is, we're not concerned with the battles. It's either a race to see who kills the bad guys faster or a competition to see who can pull of the coolest maneuver. Even fighting the other mythic critters, so far, aren't a challenge at all. Like when we fought the mythic dragon a few levels ago. We were so concerned that we quickly buffed and unloaded with our most damaging abilities and killed it in one round.
We were doing arena fights and those were a lot of fun because we had to purposefully hold back and try and make the combats last longer. We weren't taking all of our attacks and not buffing or using spells to seriously mess with the enemies. The challenge was NOT to kill them too fast.
Don't get me wrong, I like wading through bad guys on occasion, but when there's no threat in any combat, the thrill kind of fades.
It seems strange that they would write an AP just for players to mop the floor with enemies with no challenges.
Dragonchess Player |
Yes, there are issues with the PF1 mythic rules. It can significantly increase the power level of mythic PCs; even more so with certain choices of mythic feats and path abilities.
However, the Wrath of the Righteous AP makes this imbalance worse:
1) The NPCs, even though they are not mythic, provide added support that is not compensated for in the encounter CRs; and
2) The treasures available include numerous powerful magic items and even artifacts at a higher rate than most APs.
In addition to being mythic, the PCs have more help and better magic items than most APs. Also, too many of the encounters seem to be against single enemies; which is an issue even without mythic (or added NPC support).
Azothath |
the trick with soap-opera is the encounters are about drama, what the protagonists learn & feel(emote). As a GM/author you know they will be martially superior, so it is about the question/challenge, what they learn & demonstrate. Sadly for most it's just about them and their personal power, so more narcissistic vigilante than hero.
Dasrak |
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While it is accurate to say Mythic is "broken", it's a little more complex than that. Mythic turbo-charges the offensive side of the system, but does not counterbalance it on the defensive side very effectively. This creates very fast-paced and deadly combat, where battles can swing wildly in a single turn. This is further exacerbated by the system leaning heavily on swift/immediate actions, which has a number of consequences. Because immediate actions are one per turn, it's much easier to overwhelm a target's defenses since they can only use a mythic defense once. It makes being flat-footed more brutal than usual. It also creates class-based balance issues, as some classes run into action economy issues because of this. Something like a Fighter doesn't normally need swift or immediate actions so it's no problem, but something like a Swashbuckler runs into issues.
Now, it is absolutely possible to create challenging mythic campaigns, but it is very difficult and requires a lot of GM experience since the sweet spot is very narrow. It also requires players to understand that this is a very lethal rules variant where offensive power is high and PC's are relative glass cannons. A good or bad roll at an opportune time can always shift the tides of battle, but these shifts are far more dramatic in mythic and can easily result in a player death. It's a very unique style of campaign, one I found very interesting and challenging to GM effectively, but also one I can't recommend. It was too over the top, and I needed to overcompensate to challenge my PC's.
This brings us to Wrath of the Righteous. As others have already mentioned, AP's are designed to be accessible for players of all skill and optimization levels. They aren't meant to be hard, and if played as written should not result in PC deaths. This runs completely counter to what mythic is, and when you try to force that design philosophy into a mythic campaign you get a boring slog where the enemies are completely and totally outclassed by the PC's. I don't think Paizo had a good option here, and while it's debatable as to whether they took the right path in the circumstances it's understandable given the lack of expertise with the mythic system at the time that the erred on the side of caution and created an overly-conservative difficulty level.
Now, with all that said I do think the Mythic rules really excel in one place: When you use them on antagonists. When used carefully by an experienced GM, a mythic enemy is one that breaks the rules and surprises players and presents a truly dangerous foe. Mythic is a great tool to mechanically communicate to the players that their adversary is another league, that the rules that apply to them are merely guidelines to this opponent. It's an alternative to big numbers as a means of intimidating the players mechanically. Moreover, with only one enemy being mythic the action economy advantage doesn't break the bank. It's a great tool to have, and I've taken to using mythic opponents fairly regularly in my campaigns where it's merited.
Arkat |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Legendary Games' "Mythic Solutions" tackles a number of problematic rules in Mythic Adventures and does a LOT to tone down the PF1 Mythic landscape.
I highly recommend it.
Diego Rossi |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Legendary Games' "Mythic Solutions" tackles a number of problematic rules in Mythic Adventures and does a LOT to tone down the PF1 Mythic landscape.
I highly recommend it.
It seems interesting. For people who don't want to open another account in another platform a link to the same product on Paizo's forum.
TxSam88 |
The DM has started maxing out HPs or, in a couple of cases, adding 300+ to the HPs and increasing AC so combat will last longer than one or two rounds.
we've been doing this in our "normal" games, plus adding some Advance's to the bad guys for years. Pathfinder AP's (and normal CR rules) seem to be built around 4 low to moderately experienced players, playing non-optimized characters, and still being able to win most of the time. Any level or player experience and/or character optimization, seems to really swing the power level far into the players favor.
It's not hard to build Normal characters that can do some of the things you list. A Magus can use any of the various teleport spells and make a full attack, a Monk can get his speed up to 100. Confirming every crit is a bit more difficult, but you can make it pretty easy to confirm. there are some Rogue Talents that allow the "loki" trick.
I haven't played Mythic yet, but it's coming up in our list, so I've been reading over the rules, and it seems to me that quite a few of the things you can get from Mythic, are already available to other classes. I just finished a campaign with an exploiter wizard, who could change the element of any spell, something he can do with this first exploit, but there's a mythic talent that allows the same thing.
So while I see lots of people say mythic is broken, I see that a lot of normal characters can do quite a bit of the same stuff.
Claxon |
So, I've been playing Pathfinder 1e since the Beta was released. I was partial owner of a game store and dove right into it.
We're finally getting into Mythic rules playing Wrath of the Righteous. I know... We're a little late to the party, to say thr least.
We're 14th level and 6th tier and we haven't had any real challenges except when the DM massively beefs up the bad guys.
It kinda seems like Mythic rules weren't really playtested. Anybody else have these issues?
The short answer is yes. Mythic is broken and unless a GM massively modifies enemies to deal with an optimized mythic party everything will be a cakewalk. Even with highly optimized enemies, it can basically boil down to who has better initiative. As player characters are capable of dealing thousands of damage with their mythic abilities, the game quickly just becomes "I go first, I win" because optimized mythic enemies have the same problems.
I won't personally touch PF1 mythic rules.
Chuck Mount |
Chuck Mount wrote:
The DM has started maxing out HPs or, in a couple of cases, adding 300+ to the HPs and increasing AC so combat will last longer than one or two rounds.we've been doing this in our "normal" games, plus adding some Advance's to the bad guys for years. Pathfinder AP's (and normal CR rules) seem to be built around 4 low to moderately experienced players, playing non-optimized characters, and still being able to win most of the time. Any level or player experience and/or character optimization, seems to really swing the power level far into the players favor.
It's not hard to build Normal characters that can do some of the things you list. A Magus can use any of the various teleport spells and make a full attack, a Monk can get his speed up to 100. Confirming every crit is a bit more difficult, but you can make it pretty easy to confirm. there are some Rogue Talents that allow the "loki" trick.
I haven't played Mythic yet, but it's coming up in our list, so I've been reading over the rules, and it seems to me that quite a few of the things you can get from Mythic, are already available to other classes. I just finished a campaign with an exploiter wizard, who could change the element of any spell, something he can do with this first exploit, but there's a mythic talent that allows the same thing.
So while I see lots of people say mythic is broken, I see that a lot of normal characters can do quite a bit of the same stuff.
I haven't seen the magus ability that lets him teleport and then do a full attack. If that's a thing, it's ridiculous. LOL
A monk can get his speed up to 100, but I'm talking about a paladin with mythic smite moving 100 feet and then hitting 3-5 times and doing around 40-60 damage with each hit.Both paladins have the ability to reroll 1's and one of them can make an opponent reroll. Next tier, one of the paladins is taking the mythic ability that makes it so you don't automatically miss on a 1.
I haven't seen any rogue talents that lets you ignore being hit and then teleport away.
Taja the Barbarian |
TxSam88 wrote:Chuck Mount wrote:
The DM has started maxing out HPs or, in a couple of cases, adding 300+ to the HPs and increasing AC so combat will last longer than one or two rounds.we've been doing this in our "normal" games, plus adding some Advance's to the bad guys for years. Pathfinder AP's (and normal CR rules) seem to be built around 4 low to moderately experienced players, playing non-optimized characters, and still being able to win most of the time. Any level or player experience and/or character optimization, seems to really swing the power level far into the players favor.
It's not hard to build Normal characters that can do some of the things you list. A Magus can use any of the various teleport spells and make a full attack, a Monk can get his speed up to 100. Confirming every crit is a bit more difficult, but you can make it pretty easy to confirm. there are some Rogue Talents that allow the "loki" trick.
I haven't played Mythic yet, but it's coming up in our list, so I've been reading over the rules, and it seems to me that quite a few of the things you can get from Mythic, are already available to other classes. I just finished a campaign with an exploiter wizard, who could change the element of any spell, something he can do with this first exploit, but there's a mythic talent that allows the same thing.
So while I see lots of people say mythic is broken, I see that a lot of normal characters can do quite a bit of the same stuff.
I haven't seen the magus ability that lets him teleport and then do a full attack. If that's a thing, it's ridiculous. LOL
A monk can get his speed up to 100, but I'm talking about a paladin with mythic smite moving 100 feet and then hitting 3-5 times and doing around 40-60 damage with each hit.
Both paladins have the ability to reroll 1's and one of them can make an opponent reroll. Next tier, one of the paladins is taking the mythic ability that makes it so you don't automatically miss on a 1.
I haven't...
I'm guessing the 'teleport and full attack' ability is the Walk Through Space spell with the Mythic boost: Honestly, it feels kinda lackluster when you consider the non-mythic Dimensional Dervish feat chain that uses a lower level spell slot and offers multiple teleports but only lasts one round (as if anything is still alive in round 2 of a mythic fight)...
The 'teleport away' ability is probably:
TxSam88 |
I haven't seen the magus ability that lets him teleport and then do a full attack. If that's a thing, it's ridiculous
I haven't seen any rogue talents that lets you ignore being hit and then teleport away.
Spell combat and just about any teleport spell will give a teleport and full around attack..... my current character is using Phase Step, I wish it worked with Dimensional Slide.
Shadow Duplicate is pretty close to the Loki trick, just lacking the teleport, and there's always the Cloak of fiery vanishing, or the Cape of the Mountebank. both would be similar to the Loki effect.
Mysterious Stranger |
Most of the things people are saying are overpowered are only available to high level high tier characters. Even without mythic what a high-level character can do is pretty powerful.
A non-mythic 12th level paladin can easily be doing around 50 points of damage without a critical hit. If they use a high crit range weapon like a falchion with improved critical, they will do even more damage. Throw in hast from another party member and they are getting 4 attacks per round.
Ju-Mo. |
@TxSam88
There are a lot of things that mythic gets that makes it broken.
You get another ressource (mythic power: 3 + 2x mythic tier).
You can to a lot of stuff with this ressource, a lot of this stuff is a swift action, like for a wizard: Cast any spell (with a standart action or less) of you spell list of a level you can cast as a swift action.
So a level 12/3 wizard, hast 9 mythic power.
And on the first round of combat he can cast any spell he wants from his spell book as a standart action and than cast any spell of 6 or lower level on spell list as a swift action, with a +2 bonus to his caster level.
If he knows his spells, he most likely knows the best spell for this encoutner/situation.
He even can apply any metamagic feat he knows (as long a the spell level is not higher than what he would be able to casst)
Thats something he normally cant do and not at this rate.
If you say you just need 2 extra perfect swift spells per encounter, he can fight in 4 encounters per day. Thats a lot and with every mthic tier it gets better.
For a figher there is a mythic path ability, that gives you +5 on you
subsequent attacks.
So a fighter 12 with normal +12/+7/+2 who uses it 2 times gets +12/+12/+12, which means with another mythic path ability nat 1 isnt a fail, you hit nearly every monster every time without even rolling.
Just because even in normal games a figther often hits with his first attack if he rolls higher than a 1.
Another thing is:
Only magus or a specific charakter build can teleport/move everywhere on the battlefield and make a full attack.
But he has to use his spells and he still only attacks as a magus.
So at level 12 he hits with a BAB of +9/+4.
You dont want to give this ability to a fighter/barbarian/paladin.
But thats exactly whats happening with mythic.
Now a paladin can to this AND he hits with +12/+12/+12 AND a nat 1 doesnt fail.
You just get more options to choose from and you can choose more option to optimise you charatker. Which means if you optimise you charakter you can optimse him even further/more.
That you get +2 on any ability score every second level, just further optimises your charakter.
You are right a lot of charakter builds can to stuff a mythic charakter gets with one or two mythic abilities.
But one ist your whole charakter build/class choise and one is just one or two of 10 mythic path abilies or 5 mythic feats you get.
TxSam88 |
Cast any spell (with a standard action or less) of you spell list of a level you can cast as a swift action.
For a figher there is a mythic path ability, that gives you +5 on you
subsequent attacks.
So a fighter 12 with normal +12/+7/+2 who uses it 2 times gets +12/+12/+12, which means with another mythic path ability nat 1 isnt a fail, you hit nearly every monster every time without even rolling.
Just because even in normal games a figther often hits with his first attack if he rolls higher than a 1.
I'm not saying that Mythic isn't powerful, I haven't played it yet, so I don't know, all I'm saying is that it seems that many of the things it gives can be obtained by a regular character.
Your spell caster example - easily duplicated by a metamagic rod of quicken.
Fighter, Haste will give an extra attack at full BAB. (There are a number of full BAB classes that can self haste). Not to mention the feats Many shot and Rapid Shot
Barbarian that can teleport and make full Attack - Multi class as Magus/Barbarian.
agreed, it's not ideal - I'm simply saying it's possible.
Mysterious Stranger |
Precision is the ability that lets you attack at with a +5 bonus. It is also a tier 3 ability which means that you have to be at least 3rd tier to take it. The 12th level/3rd tier character can take it 1 time. So, you don’t the character would be at BAB of +12/+12/+7 not +12/+12/+12. Fleet Warrior (the ability to move up to your speed and make a full attack) is also tier 3 ability. So, for the fighter to do what your example says it needs to be 5th tier minimum.
When running a mythic game, you need to adjust the game to account for the players increased ability. If you try and run it like a normal campaign it will not work. But instead of trying to adjust the normal scenario you have to create something designed from the ground up to deal with the fact that the characters are significantly more powerful.
One thing I found worked better than trying to make each monster a threat was to use sheer numbers. So instead of trying to beef up the opponents and keep the number the same, I increased the power of the opponents a bit and dramatically increased their numbers. Now instead of facing squads my players were facing armies. Normally this would slow down the game to a crawl, but I am a programmer, so I wrote some python scripts to handle the opponent’s side of combat. It took less time to resolve hundreds of attacks on the players than it did for 4 of them to make their own attacks. They did pile up huge amounts of kills but that is the whole point of a running a mythic campaign.
Chuck Mount |
Chuck Mount wrote:I haven't seen the magus ability that lets him teleport and then do a full attack. If that's a thing, it's ridiculous
I haven't seen any rogue talents that lets you ignore being hit and then teleport away.
Spell combat and just about any teleport spell will give a teleport and full around attack..... my current character is using Phase Step, I wish it worked with Dimensional Slide.
Shadow Duplicate is pretty close to the Loki trick, just lacking the teleport, and there's always the Cloak of fiery vanishing, or the Cape of the Mountebank. both would be similar to the Loki effect.
Very cool! I never put that together when I played a Magus, for some reason. I kept doing attack spells with that ability. Still... It's a lot more limited that the mythic ability. Our paladin can move anywhere he wants, for the most part, and get a full attack every round for as long as the combat lasts.
Mirror Dodge, though, is a lot more powerful than any of your examples. As an immediate action, after I'm hit, I can spend a mythic point to teleport up to 30 feet away and leave behind an illusory duplicate that actually gets hit. The rogue ability still leaves the rogue there to get hit, again. The two magic items aren't really close and all three examples are a lot more limited in uses. We've reached a point where I can do it 13 times a day if I don't use mythic points for anything else and I rarely use them.
Diego Rossi |
I haven't seen the magus ability that lets him teleport and then do a full attack. If that's a thing, it's ridiculous. LOL
Spell combat and casting Dimension door + Dimensional Agility is one way to do that.
Another way is Spell combat and casting Bladed Dash or Force Hook Charge.
Spell combat and any spell that moves the Magus can move him away, often at little or no risk of an AoO.
Ju-Mo. |
I'm not saying that Mythic isn't powerful, I haven't played it yet, so I don't know, all I'm saying is that it seems that many of the things it gives can be obtained by a regular character.Your spell caster example - easily duplicated by a metamagic rod of quicken.
Fighter, Haste will give an extra attack at full BAB. (There are a number of full BAB classes that can self haste). Not to mention the feats Many shot and Rapid Shot
Barbarian that can teleport and make full Attack - Multi class as Magus/Barbarian.
agreed, it's not ideal - I'm simply saying it's possible.
As I said, with specific charatker builds you can do the same things mythic people can do too.
In case of the caster you could cast as a swift action AND use a matemagic rod, but thats not whats so powerful.
You can have the perfect spell for every situation (if you know the enemie and the spells). And that with mateamagic (if you have the talents and the level isnt higher than the highest level you can cast) and as a swift action.
Hatse is something the mythic charakte also gets.
It was a "non buffed" situation, just because mythic charakters have at least the same buffs or its a situation where a buff spell would be wasted.
You barbarian example is perfect.
You can do this, but ONLY with a specific charakter build, where you sacrafice things. Mythic just says: "You can do it"
Every charakter build can do it. Not just a BRB/MAG or a Monk or other specififc builds.
I´m well aware that you can simluate most mythic abilites with the a specific charakter build on a high level.
But mythic gives this ability options to every build and very early at that.
In WotR you get your first mythic tier at level 6 i think.
Which means you than have a Sorcerer 6/1.
Which can cast 4 level 3 spells and you know 1.
With you 5 mythic powers you can cast additionally 5 quick level 3 spells AND this 5 spells can be every spell that you want it to be and they come with a caster level bonus of +2.
You took haste as your spell known, but now you have a flying enemy?
Cast Fly as a swift action on the fighter and haste him with your standard action.
The flying enemy can cast deeper darkness on his turn?
Ok now cast daylight as a swift action and magic missle as your standard action.
A lesser metamagic rod is 35.000 GP, thats a little bit much for a level 6 charakter. And even if he found one, he would have used 2 of his 3 daily uses on one encounter.
With mythic you another have 3 quick spells if you like. And the spells dont even have to be your known spells.
Ofc you could habe a scroll flying and a scroll daylight, buts its highly likely that you dont have them or at least not a lot of them at this level.
Mysterious Stranger you could use your mythic talent at 3rd level to get it a second time at third level.
However to be honest, I didnt look it up and totally forgot that its a 3 tier ability and that without the mythic feat you would be only able to take it one time.
Is quiet some time that our group played WotR (we finished book 5 and than the GM wanted to take a break, because being the GM was more work than he thought, normally I´m the GM but he wanted to try it) and I just rememberd, that our fighter sometimes didnt even roll his attack rolls and just his DMG, not even carring for crits.
Chuck Mount |
Chuck Mount wrote:
I haven't seen the magus ability that lets him teleport and then do a full attack. If that's a thing, it's ridiculous. LOLSpell combat and casting Dimension door + Dimensional Agility is one way to do that.
Another way is Spell combat and casting Bladed Dash or Force Hook Charge.
Spell combat and any spell that moves the Magus can move him away, often at little or no risk of an AoO.
Right. As I said, though, it's very limited. Mythic can do it every round, all day long.
Diego Rossi |
Diego Rossi wrote:Right. As I said, though, it's very limited. Mythic can do it every round, all day long.Chuck Mount wrote:
I haven't seen the magus ability that lets him teleport and then do a full attack. If that's a thing, it's ridiculous. LOLSpell combat and casting Dimension door + Dimensional Agility is one way to do that.
Another way is Spell combat and casting Bladed Dash or Force Hook Charge.
Spell combat and any spell that moves the Magus can move him away, often at little or no risk of an AoO.
It is part of what Ju-Mo. said. Mythic takes stuff that only specific builds can do and makes it available to most Mythic characters.