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Ultimately, the Deck of Many things is mostly included in Pathfinder "for the lulz". I don't think there's anywhere else in PF1 or 2 where you have actual XP loss occurring, and so the rules simply don't address it because it shouldn't happen.
There is no RAW to determine what should happen.
Losing 10,000 xp causing you to lose a level sounds right, but what exactly does losing a level entail? Honestly if I were your GM I would say you would "roll back" your character to whatever they looked like at the previous level, as if you hadn't leveled up. So you would lose the exact amount of HP that you gained. Chances are you don't have that recorded so you may not know, and have to come up with a method of determining what that loss should be. Same kind of issue with skill points likely.
Pathfinder 1e didn't carry level loss over from 3.5, so RAW you can't lose a level. There is no mechanic for that to happen. You lose XP and might go below the level threshold, but you don't lose a level. You just need more XP to level back up.
Back in D&D 3.5, you could lose levels, though it was expected to happen from a monster or curse rather than losing XP. The mechanics for that are here:
A character who loses a level instantly loses one Hit Die. The character’s base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, and special class abilities are now reduced to the new, lower level. Likewise, the character loses any ability score gain, skill ranks, and any feat associated with the level (if applicable). If the exact ability score or skill ranks increased from a level now lost is unknown (or the player has forgotten), lose 1 point from the highest ability score or ranks from the highest-ranked skills. If a familiar or companion creature has abilities tied to a character who has lost a level, the creature’s abilities are adjusted to fit the character’s new level.
The victim’s experience point total is immediately set to the midpoint of the previous level.
You could adapt that for PF1 if you wanted, including rolling HD and losing HP if you still roll for that and have no record of what you rolled. But it seems to me that the designers removed it for a reason and thus I'd argue that RAW you do not lose a level in PF1.
PF2 has never had a level loss mechanic, so again: RAW, you can't lose a level. There is no rule for that. Your XP might go negative, but that's still a number.
In the Remaster, the Deck of Many Things itself wasn't reprinted, so now there's just no XP loss at all. Thus I would never expect this "gap" to be filled: there is no way it can happen anymore.
I would take the XP away but not remove a level. Essentially, the character now has a starting deficit to make up before progressing toward the next level.
Many thanks for your answers. I appreciate your opinions.
I like the point of view of losing XPs without removing a level, but I suspect that houseruling will not be enough for my Gamemaster.
That's not really a house rule, though. There is no rule for reducing a characters level, so actually doing that is a house rule.
Is the Deck of Many Things not included in he new GM Core book (2023)?
No, its not.
Does that means that the GM Core repeal/revoke the PF2 Gamemastery Guide (2020)?
That's a GM question. GM Core is the newer book and if you're using the Remaster, the one that you'd be using. If material from non-remaster sources is allowed or not is something the GM decides for their game.
If not, then there is still something in PF2 that makes you lose XPs and maybe your level too.
There's nothing in remaster PF2 that causes this situation, and at this point Paizo is not going to make a rules update for a legacy item that was removed from the remaster.
Especially since "we removed level loss deliberately in PF1 and didn't add it back in PF2" seems like they already gave their answer.
back in older edition when you could lose a level you would have lost the level you gained last (and die if you reach level 0 somehow).
how to deal with it in pathfinder, I can see two things related to it:
this tirual send some1 back to 1st level to start over by removing his memory, sound like what the Fool card do but on a higher level, so you can use it as guidance for only one level.
another option that I can think about is that losing a level can also literally mean you now have a negative level (not in game terms but as in what it logically sound like), so if you don't use the solution above you can give the target a negative level that doesn't go off (even with spells) until he gain enough xp to be back on his level.
-say he lost 10k xp and now just under 2k xp from the minimum for his current level. I would give him a semi-permanent negative level until he gain 2k more xp.
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With losing XP there is the drawback that you don't have a way to "close" the XP gap with the other members of your party without playing side quests alone. Pathfinder (and to a lesser extent 3.x) is all about having PCs with the same levels.
3.x had a mechanic that let you gain more XP if you had a lower level, but basic Pathfinder rules lack it.
Ultimate Campaign introduced the Earn XP downtime activity (p. 85) that allows you to catch up if you use it and have available downtime.
My playing group generally keeps track of what was gained at each level, so reverting back to the previous level isn't difficult. We would rule that you roll back to what were your hp, skills, and so on at the previous level and then would make the same choices when gaining it back.
That said, losing XP is a bad mechanic in Pathfinder, as it is not supported anywhere in the main rules.
The ritual zza ni linked gives some guidelines, but it seems more like a GM tool to set up the background for an adventure than an actual set of rules for losing levels.
Is the Deck of Many Things not included in he new GM Core book (2023)?,
it's included in the 6th (final) edition of the PF1 core rulebook, it's also listed on AON. As this is a PF1 rules forum, that would be the "official" version for our use.
I would suggest you use the negative level rules. Give the pc a negative level until they accumulate exp to get to their proper level.
"For each negative level a creature has, it takes a cumulative –1 penalty on all ability checks, attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, Combat Maneuver Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. In addition, the creature reduces its current and total hit points by 5 for each negative level it possesses. The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed. Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels. If a creature’s negative levels equal or exceed its total Hit Dice, it dies.
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Is the Deck of Many Things not included in he new GM Core book (2023)?,it's included in the 6th (final) edition of the PF1 core rulebook, it's also listed on AON. As this is a PF1 rules forum, that would be the "official" version for our use.
OP's question literally asks about both editions, so what forum its in is irrelevant. They were also asking if it was in GM Core because it is in the Gamemastery Guide, so it exists in PF2 but not in the Remaster.
I would point that GM to the "improved" deck of many things in Crimson Throne remaster. The Idiot is The Fool's new name, and just reduced the INT, WIS, and CHA of the drawer by 1d4 (rolled for each). Way simpler.
OP's question literally asks about both editions, so what forum its in is irrelevant. They were also asking if it was in GM Core because it is in the Gamemastery Guide, so it exists in PF2 but not in the Remaster.Is the Deck of Many Things not included in he new GM Core book (2023)?,it's included in the 6th (final) edition of the PF1 core rulebook, it's also listed on AON. As this is a PF1 rules forum, that would be the "official" version for our use.
right, but the OP is playing in a PF1 game, and his GM is looking for "official rulings" as he "plays strictly by the book". So the ONLY version of the DOMT that matters is the PF1.
I would agree. You lose the XP. If you lose enough to be the previous level, that's where I think you should be. Roll and subtract HPs and remove skill points. You're not reversing time, so it doesn't have to be the exact same number of HPs or the same exact skilled you gained last level. The Fool makes you forget things. You could forget everything, not just the most recent thing learned.
That's how we did it in 2e and 3.5 and, while it was a bummer, it wasn't a character killer. It was about the story. Not the mechanics and it was fun building back up. In 3.5, the player who drew the Fool, used it as a life-changing event and took his next level in wizard and the DM let him slowly shift to necromancer. They sat and worked out the emotional drain and train of thought that led to the change.